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Post by CentreHice on Feb 12, 2007 21:31:54 GMT -5
Did you ever think you'd hear those 4 words uttered in the same sentence? ESPN Blog
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 12, 2007 21:45:15 GMT -5
Did you ever think you'd hear those 4 words uttered in the same sentence? ESPN BlogThe Man in the Yellow Suit never bugged me as he did some on this board. Good to see him doing well. From the article: "I believe Michel Therrien, Lindy Ruff, Claude Julien, Bob Hartley, Barry Trotz, Randy Carlyle, Mike Babcock and Ron Wilson are currently the NHL's top eight coaches." Vigneault and Lemaire aren't doing too bad for themselves either.
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Post by blny on Feb 12, 2007 21:54:59 GMT -5
He didn't bother me so much. His weakness was that he didn't have control of his emotions, and in the end it was the undoing of the team here. That sort of thing comes with experience. Though he's still a bit of a hot head, I think he's found a good fit. Young coach, young team.
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Post by jkr on Feb 12, 2007 22:03:57 GMT -5
Have people forgotten his tirade in Edmonton last season - when he called the whole team soft? He's reaping the benefits of drafting Crosby, Fleury, Staal, Malkin. My vote would go to Trotz. He's done a better job without the superstar talent. From previous columns, I believe the Author (Buccigros) is from Pittsburgh. SOme bias exists.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 12, 2007 22:23:37 GMT -5
Yep, Montreal seems to have had/have a few good coaches lately. Too bad our players already knew/know everything they had/have to teach. In retrospect, I blame K-hair-y Fraser for that collapse in Game 4 vs. Carolina back in 02 moreso than MT. Up until that point, I had been very happy with him. A painful look back at the boxscore shows we were up 3-0 at the time. 2:40 into the third period when Quintal was called for crosschecking Martin Gelinas. I don't remember if Fraser warned him or not, but MT vehemently complained and got an Abuse of Official call. A full 2-minute 5-on-3 on which Sean Hill scored. We had the next 2 PPs, but couldn't generate anything....and I remember the refs missing a Jeff O'Neill spear on Koivu....in fact I remember Chris Cuthbert and Greg Millen chuckling at the replay of it. The Canes got no more PPs....but scored to tie it. The momentum had been changed forever with that 5-on-3 goal. OT....most people lambasted Therrien for having Bill Lindsay on to take that fateful faceoff instead of Yanic Perreault....but I've heard Paul Maurice say since that Therrien made the right call there because Lindsay had been hot that game. In fact, Maurice thought he had been outcoached by MT on that one. Law of averages I guess.....Lindsay lost it. ============================================= BTW, both Julien and Therrien have ended up with more talented teams. Lemaire's Wild have a great work ethic. And Vigneault's Canucks have shown vast improvement as the season has progressed. The Habs either don't have the horses; have underachieving horses; or are (apparently) uncoachable.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 12, 2007 22:40:05 GMT -5
The Jack Adams is the kiss of death for coaches ... hope Therrien gets it (or someone in the east).
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Post by MC Habber on Feb 13, 2007 4:54:51 GMT -5
I was never one to crucify MT for one mistake, and I certainly didn't think he should be fired for it. There were plenty of other reasons for him to be fired!
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Post by blny on Feb 13, 2007 7:25:53 GMT -5
Have people forgotten his tirade in Edmonton last season - when he called the whole team soft? He's reaping the benefits of drafting Crosby, Fleury, Staal, Malkin. My vote would go to Trotz. He's done a better job without the superstar talent. From previous columns, I believe the Author (Buccigros) is from Pittsburgh. SOme bias exists. They were playing like crap. Players need to be accountable and he called them on it. Gonchar was in the midst of his worst season, Recchi wasn't playing all that well, and Leclair was showing that his career was over. MT was brought in because of his relationship with the youth he coached in WB. There's no indication that his relationship with Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, or Staal is strained - yet.
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Post by jkr on Feb 13, 2007 7:39:58 GMT -5
Have people forgotten his tirade in Edmonton last season - when he called the whole team soft? He's reaping the benefits of drafting Crosby, Fleury, Staal, Malkin. My vote would go to Trotz. He's done a better job without the superstar talent. From previous columns, I believe the Author (Buccigros) is from Pittsburgh. SOme bias exists. They were playing like crap. Players need to be accountable and he called them on it. Gonchar was in the midst of his worst season, Recchi wasn't playing all that well, and Leclair was showing that his career was over. MT was brought in because of his relationship with the youth he coached in WB. There's no indication that his relationship with Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, or Staal is strained - yet. True but how many coaches rip their team publicly like that. Carbonneau gets reamed here for less. Therrien is reaping the benefits of extremely high draft picks that have worked out as well as some friendly press by a hometown writer. Barry Trotz is my pick. He has the longevity, the success & no superstars in his lineup.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 13, 2007 8:17:18 GMT -5
Have people forgotten his tirade in Edmonton last season - when he called the whole team soft? He's reaping the benefits of drafting Crosby, Fleury, Staal, Malkin. My vote would go to Trotz. He's done a better job without the superstar talent. From previous columns, I believe the Author (Buccigros) is from Pittsburgh. SOme bias exists. They were playing like crap. Players need to be accountable and he called them on it. Gonchar was in the midst of his worst season, Recchi wasn't playing all that well, and Leclair was showing that his career was over. MT was brought in because of his relationship with the youth he coached in WB. There's no indication that his relationship with Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, or Staal is strained - yet. Undeniably, Pittsburgh has some "elite" young talent up front (who would be getting 10 minutes a game in Montreal, or be benched at their first blunder). But they also have a gaggle of no-name forwards logging lots of ice. Gonchar heads a stellar blue line corps comprised of: Mark Eaton, Josef Melichar, Alain Nasreddine, Brooks Orpik, Robert Scuderi, Ryan Whitney. Fleury is having a rather ordinary season with a GAA of 2.81 and a save % of .908 (the kind of numbers that have Carbo and the fans wondering if Huet is qualified to be a number one goalie). The Penguins have rolled the dice and iced a team with zero veteran presence or leadership (unless you want to count Gonchar). Therrien was promoted to mould these guys into a winner. He's doing just that.
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Post by jkr on Feb 13, 2007 8:57:32 GMT -5
They were playing like crap. Players need to be accountable and he called them on it. Gonchar was in the midst of his worst season, Recchi wasn't playing all that well, and Leclair was showing that his career was over. MT was brought in because of his relationship with the youth he coached in WB. There's no indication that his relationship with Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, or Staal is strained - yet. The Penguins have rolled the dice and iced a team with zero veteran presence or leadership (unless you want to count Gonchar). Therrien was promoted to mould these guys into a winner. He's doing just that. Maybe but I think he is in the right place at the right time & doing what a competent NHL coach could do. There are better coaches out there doing more with less.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 13, 2007 9:15:58 GMT -5
Undeniably, Pittsburgh has some "elite" young talent up front (who would be getting 10 minutes a game in Montreal, or be benched at their first blunder). But they also have a gaggle of no-name forwards logging lots of ice. Gonchar heads a stellar blue line corps comprised of: Mark Eaton, Josef Melichar, Alain Nasreddine, Brooks Orpik, Robert Scuderi, Ryan Whitney. Fleury is having a rather ordinary season with a GAA of 2.81 and a save % of .908 (the kind of numbers that have Carbo and the fans wondering if Huet is qualified to be a number one goalie). The Penguins have rolled the dice and iced a team with zero veteran presence or leadership (unless you want to count Gonchar). Therrien was promoted to mould these guys into a winner. He's doing just that. Their defense has a load of potential as well. Along with Gonchar, Orpik and Whitney are both recent first round picks, with Whitney being 5th overall. Gonchar is a nice leader, Recchi is a great leader, and they have a sprinkling of character players throughout. Fleury, believe it or not, did not have a goaltending coach until just very recently. What team takes an 18 year old goalie, throws him into the NHL, and doesn't even give him a coach to work with?? It's no wonder he's been a little slow to come around. They also have Andre Savard sitting on the bench every day too. No, I think Therrien is Mr. Lucky. I'm pretty sure I could coach that team to a pretty decent level. Heck, the best thing for him to do would be to simply not coach them at all.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 13, 2007 9:49:14 GMT -5
Therrien was promoted to mould these guys into a winner. He's doing just that. Yep. There is on this team a load of talent but there is also a load of big egos that not any coach could make into a team. I’ve said it a thousand times, as a career coach you do not make it to the NHL if you don’t have a clue. Michel knows his hockey inside out, he took every development steps and won at every level. He’s an intense person with great character that will let his emotions take over from time to time but that does not make him a bad coach. Michel, btw, got come Jack Adams considerations as well on his first year as HABS coach. I’m really happy that Michel gets some well deserved success. Way to go coach.
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Post by blny on Feb 13, 2007 11:37:58 GMT -5
They were playing like crap. Players need to be accountable and he called them on it. Gonchar was in the midst of his worst season, Recchi wasn't playing all that well, and Leclair was showing that his career was over. MT was brought in because of his relationship with the youth he coached in WB. There's no indication that his relationship with Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, or Staal is strained - yet. True but how many coaches rip their team publicly like that. Carbonneau gets reamed here for less. Therrien is reaping the benefits of extremely high draft picks that have worked out as well as some friendly press by a hometown writer. Barry Trotz is my pick. He has the longevity, the success & no superstars in his lineup. I too think Trotz should win. Just because Therien's public blasting of players last year was unique doesn't make it wrong. People in the real world are accountable for their actions. They just don't necessarily have the media around them looking for sound bites.
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Post by blny on Feb 13, 2007 11:43:10 GMT -5
The Penguins have rolled the dice and iced a team with zero veteran presence or leadership (unless you want to count Gonchar). Therrien was promoted to mould these guys into a winner. He's doing just that. Don't discount 3 time cup winner Mark Recchi. He's a solid leader on a team of young players, and career ahlers. Make no mistake, it's Crosby's team. You can bet Sidney is relying on Mark for some guidance though.
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Post by Bob on Feb 13, 2007 14:18:09 GMT -5
5 reasons why Therrien is succeeding
2002 - Ryan Whitney #5 overall 2003 - Marc- Andre Fleury #1 overall 2004 - Evegeni Malkin #2 overall 2005 - Sidney Crosby #1 overall 2006 - Jordan Staal #2 overall
Being inept does have its rewards
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 13, 2007 14:22:13 GMT -5
5 reasons why Therrien is succeeding 2002 - Ryan Whitney #5 overall 2003 - Marc- Andre Fleury #1 overall 2004 - Evegeni Malkin #2 overall 2005 - Sidney Crosby #1 overall 2006 - Jordan Staal #2 overall Being inept does have its rewards You forgot Mario Lemieux #1 over all in 1984, for choosing him to coach the team.
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Post by Bob on Feb 13, 2007 16:44:50 GMT -5
As a comparison, Montreal has picked number one or number two overall only twice in the past 35 years while Pittsburgh has picked number one or number two in each of the past 4 years.
The NHL rewards failure and one of the biggest beneficiaries has been Therrien
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 13, 2007 17:04:45 GMT -5
As a comparison, Montreal has picked number one or number two overall only twice in the past 35 years while Pittsburgh has picked number one or number two in each of the past 4 years. The NHL rewards failure and one of the biggest beneficiaries has been Therrien Which only goes to show that the Penguins chose wisely in the draft. That doesn't make them a winning team. Therrien was chosen (groomed even) to create a winning team from these blue-bloods and the majority spare parts. Looks like he's doing it. Too bad Julien's systematic approach didn't work in Montreal. Don't hear Jersey complaining though. Yeah, if the Habs flounder it has to be the coach's fault. Oh well.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 13, 2007 17:36:55 GMT -5
Therrien's coaching record:
QMJHL - 189-70-11, .720 Winning seasons - 4 Losing seasons - 0
AHL - 209-164-42, .554 Winning seasons - 6 Losing seasons - 1
Montreal - 77-77-22, .500 Pittsburgh - 43-46-17, ..485 Total - 120-123-39, .486 Winning seasons: 2 Losing seasons: 3
Now in his 5th season in the Penguins organization. Must be some real dumbasses in Pittsburgh, keeping Therrien around all this time, while apparently better coaches were available to lead their team.
*
Julien's coaching record:
QMJHL - 48-19-3, .707 Winning seasons - 1 Losing seasons - 0
AHL - 98-77-19, .560 Winning seasons - 2 Losing seasons - 1
Montreal - 53-46-11, .532 New Jersey - 34-16-6, .661 Total - 87-62-17, .575 Winning seasons - 3 Losing seasons - 1
*
Now why would New Jersey (Lamoriello) and Pittsburgh (Lemieux) hire such obvious "losers"? Or could it just be that the players in Montreal drove these two very capable coaches out? I think the latter is the case.
Bonne chance Michel et Claude !
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Post by Skilly on Feb 13, 2007 17:56:23 GMT -5
I notice a disturbing trend ....
Both have 0.700+ in the Q. Where teams are usually loaded down in talent or highly deficient.
But their winning percentage declines with each step they take.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Feb 13, 2007 20:21:31 GMT -5
I notice a disturbing trend ....Both have 0.700+ in the Q. Where teams are usually loaded down in talent or highly deficient. But their winning percentage declines with each step they take. Well now, were the Habs loaded with talent or deficient during their tenures as head coach? Therrien's and Julien's combined records while coaching the Habs: 130-123-33, .512 Both were at least .500 over all while in charge of the good ship Habbypop. My theory is that malingering coach-killers did them in: And now they've been found greener pastures. It remains to be seen what Carbonneau's half-life is.
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Post by Marvin on Feb 14, 2007 15:22:37 GMT -5
Having a top draft pick (as the Penguins have had a few years in succession) means nothing if the players don't perform to their abilities or if the players don't translate junior succes into NHL success. Therrien and his coaching staff have to be given some credit for the players' success.
Marv
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 15, 2007 2:52:28 GMT -5
Everybody in Pittsburgh, from the coaches to the players to the trainers can FEEL the excitement that's building as a result of having building blocks in place....not just good players....FRANCHISE players....MARQUEE players....ELITE players....with Crosby, Malkin, and Staal, they could very well have three of the top 5 in the game.....until UFA rears its greedy head.
They're like the Islanders of the late 70s before they blossomed...and the Oilers of the early 80s before they matured.
But they still need a good coach....and if Therrien can guide them towards Stanley....he'll have earned just as many accolades.
On a sad note....Montreal has not one such player....not even close.
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Post by Marvin on Feb 15, 2007 8:49:45 GMT -5
You can't have your cake and eat it too: You either want your team in the Playoffs or not. Give Mtl a chance to finish at the bottom of the standings a few years in a row, and then you you'll get the top draft picks that you all so preciously want.
Marv
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 15, 2007 12:20:05 GMT -5
Even before he started with Montreal, Therrien had a good rep for working with younger players. Well, he's got that in Pittsburgh as well as some veterans even he, as any coach should, learn from.
He's got the talented youth and given his junior coaching record, he's in his element. You know he's learned some tough lessons from the Montreal School of Hard-knocks. But it looks as if he's used that to his benefit.
Good on Vigneault and Julien too BTW.
Cheers.
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