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Post by blny on Mar 31, 2014 18:30:15 GMT -5
Markov or Vanek, mate? Cheers. Vanek. We remain a team that struggles to score goals right now. And when we look over our shoulder to see if any help is about to come from the farm....that situation becomes even more bleak. Defensively we're not great at all, but we have Beaulieu and Tinordi breaking in who should end up in the top4 eventually. Finally for similar money I'd much rather put it on a 30yr old player at the peak of his carreer than on a 36yr old player at the twilight of it. Quite frankly Vanek or not, I wouldn't resign Markov at all. He wanted 3-4 years at about 7. He didn't give us the "I want to finish my career here" discount when faced with the possibility of being traded at the deadline, the demands won't go down once he has free agency in sight. As for signing the 2 of them, it doesn’t fit. For next year HABS currently stand at about 50mil of committed salary. Let's optimistically place the cap at 70 for next year (some say 68). That gives us 20mil of cap space. Subban doesn’t get a token less than 7.5 and still, it will be an uphill battle. So that leaves 12.5mil. Let’s say we bring up Beaulieu for good, that’s 1.3mil, Eller gets 2.5. We now stand with less than 9mil… no way we can afford both on that. Heck we’ll have to be creative to afford ONE of them and have enough left to finish filling up the roster. Letting Gionta walk frees up cash. Qualify Eller. That can be done for $1.5 million according to capgeek. He's got a lot to prove. Misused or not, he's not a $2.5 million player at this point. Is there confirmation that Andrei is looking for 3-4 years and $7 million per? I haven't seen that before now. It's been reported he was looking for more than 2 years, but that's all I've heard. Beaulieu's cap hit is $925k, not $1.3 million. Bonuses don't count toward the cap. Habs' actually committed salary for next year is $46.63 million. Qualification offers, if accepted by Eller, Weise, and White would add 175k, 37,500, and 35,000 respectively. I see no reason for Weise and White to reject at this point. Eller might hold out, might not. If he signs an offer sheet, we may prefer the compensation. If he accepts, all three signed mean the committed money jumps to $46,877,500. There has been a lot of numbers floating around about next year's cap ceiling. Most of the 'pros' I've read still say it will be $71.1 million. Round down to $70 million for argument's sake. That means there's $23,122,500 left. A deal for PK that occupies the same amount of cap space as Doughty is between $7.5 million and $7.75 million a year. If it took $8 million a year to sign him, they're down to $15,122,500. I think they can get him for a little less, but not a lot. As it stands, I'd offer Vanek roughly the same - except for term where the club is not entitled to offer 8 years. If it took $8 million a year, that drops the available amount to $7,122,500. If Beaulieu and Tinordi were to spend the whole year with Montreal, that knocks $1.795 million off. I don't think they do if Markov re-signs. Gionta walking puts Prust on the third line and lets Bournival play with Weise and White. Bournival's cap hit is $660k Given his age, Andrei isn't a $7 million player. Did he take home town discounts in the past? Yes. Undoubtedly. If they let him walk, we're looking at this: Gorges-Subban Emelin-UFA Tinordi-Beaulieu-Weaver(re-signed) To have some cap flexibility and replace Markov means Bergevin would be spending in the area of $3 million. This of course doesn't take into consideration the potential removal of Bourque, whether via trade or buyout. The latter drops his cap hit in half for the next two seasons and frees up a further $1.667 million (though it does cost depth).
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Post by Skilly on Apr 1, 2014 6:46:37 GMT -5
Bonuses DO count towards the cap.
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Post by blny on Apr 1, 2014 8:01:42 GMT -5
Bonuses DO count towards the cap. capgeek.com/player/2276Beaulieu - AHL salary = $70,000 NHL salary = $925,000 Performance bonuses = $350,000 Signing bonus = $92,500 AAV = $1,275,000 Actual cap hit = $925,000
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 1, 2014 9:02:21 GMT -5
So what do I win?
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
FORWARDS Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / Thomas Vanek ($8.000m) / Brian Gionta ($3.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m) Alex Galchenyuk ($0.925m) / Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.685m) Dale Weise ($0.788m) / Ryan White ($0.735m) / Michael Bournival ($0.660m) Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Daniel Briere ($4.000m) /
DEFENSEMEN Jarred Tinordi ($0.870m) / P.K. Subban ($8.000m) Andrei Markov ($6.000m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m) Alexei Emelin ($4.100m) / Mike Weaver ($1.100m) Nathan Beaulieu ($0.925m) /
GOALTENDERS Carey Price ($6.500m) Peter Budaj ($1.400m)
RETAINED SALARIES (0.89% of upper limit) Rene Bourque ($0.633m—19.00%)
------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (estimations for 2014-15) SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,070,833; BONUSES: $3,257,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $29,167
I resigned Markov, Subban and Vanek, along with Gionta and Weaver. The latter two, if not resigned for their proposed salaries, could easily be replaced by similar players at a similar cost. Shouldn't be too hard to find another $1 million 7th defenseman in other words. I also traded Bourque, AND retained $633,333 of his salary, just to make him more enticing to somebody else. If Bergevin manages to do that without retaining any salary then more power to him. Now granted I took the highest projected salary cap, of $71.1 million, but I also gave out some pretty big contracts too. $8 million to both Vanek and Subban for example. I could cut $500,000 from each of those if need be, and of course figure out a way not to retain any of Bourque's contract. I also didn't leave any wiggle room, but we wouldn't be the first team to be that close, and frankly speaking I could live with that "risk" if it meant having this roster.
However you want to look at it though I think it's more than doable, without getting rid of anybody of significance.
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Post by blny on Apr 1, 2014 9:19:30 GMT -5
You win nothing! lol. Been saying this for a few weeks now. It would be nice to have a little more cap space, and I think that's accomplished by not bringing Gionta back.
Here's mine. No Gionta, Bourque bought out (which is a worst case scenario), and Parros replaced with Biznasty.
FORWARDS Thomas Vanek ($8.000m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($0.925m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.685m) Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Michael Bournival ($0.660m) Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Ryan White ($0.735m) / Dale Weise ($0.788m) Paul Bissonnette ($0.800m) / Daniel Briere ($4.000m) / DEFENSEMEN P.K. Subban ($8.000m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m) Andrei Markov ($5.000m) / Alexei Emelin ($4.100m) Jarred Tinordi ($0.870m) / Mike Weaver ($1.100m) Nathan Beaulieu ($0.925m) / GOALTENDERS Carey Price ($6.500m) Peter Budaj ($1.400m) BUYOUTS Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m) Rene Bourque ($1.667m) Scott Gomez ($0.000m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (estimations for 2014-15) SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,904,167; BONUSES: $3,257,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,195,833
Biznasty might require a little more, but that is a raise over what he's making in Phoenix. Bournival slots into Gionta's role. We just can't spend $3 million on a 3rd line checker who's 35 when we already have Briere. Live with Briere for another year and upgrade the third line if needed for real in 2015.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 1, 2014 10:22:14 GMT -5
You win nothing! lol. Been saying this for a few weeks now. It would be nice to have a little more cap space, and I think that's accomplished by not bringing Gionta back. Here's mine. No Gionta, Bourque bought out (which is a worst case scenario), and Parros replaced with Biznasty. FORWARDS Thomas Vanek ($8.000m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($0.925m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.685m) Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Michael Bournival ($0.660m) Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Ryan White ($0.735m) / Dale Weise ($0.788m) Paul Bissonnette ($0.800m) / Daniel Briere ($4.000m) / DEFENSEMEN P.K. Subban ($8.000m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m) Andrei Markov ($5.000m) / Alexei Emelin ($4.100m) Jarred Tinordi ($0.870m) / Mike Weaver ($1.100m) Nathan Beaulieu ($0.925m) / GOALTENDERS Carey Price ($6.500m) Peter Budaj ($1.400m) BUYOUTS Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m) Rene Bourque ($1.667m) Scott Gomez ($0.000m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (estimations for 2014-15) SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,904,167; BONUSES: $3,257,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,195,833 Biznasty might require a little more, but that is a raise over what he's making in Phoenix. Bournival slots into Gionta's role. We just can't spend $3 million on a 3rd line checker who's 35 when we already have Briere. Live with Briere for another year and upgrade the third line if needed for real in 2015. In my world, Gio, Bourque and Briere are gone at the end of this season. Gio walks as a free agent and signs with NJ. At season's end Bourque is cap friendly and is traded at the draft. Briere is traded to the Sabres play his final year before retiring. Using current salary dollars, Briere 4m+Bourque 3.3m+Gio 5m = 12.3m available in cap space. I'm ok with adding Biznasty, social media savvy hab fans will love him. The habs have to have the most cap friendly 2nd line (EGG) and DD+Patches for 8 million combined is unreal. I really do like the line-up you have proposed. I think it is very competitive and a whole year of that top ine could be real interesting. Patches would certainly get over 40 goals a year and he's locked up for another 5 years... That is the steal of the century. My only concern is MT sticking his nose in it and somehow BooBoo and Murray getting 1 year deals.
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Post by blny on Apr 1, 2014 10:26:54 GMT -5
In my world, Gio, Bourque and Briere are gone at the end of this season. Gio walks as a free agent and signs with NJ. At season's end Bourque is cap friendly and is traded at the draft. Briere is traded to the Sabres play his final year before retiring. Using current salary dollars, Briere 4m+Bourque 3.3m+Gio 5m = 12.3m available in cap space. I'm ok with adding Biznasty, social media savvy hab fans will love him. The habs have to have the most cap friendly 2nd line (EGG) and DD+Patches for 8 million combined is unreal. All of that is certainly a possibility. I was sort of imagining a worst case scenario. Bourque's salary does drop to $2.5 million for the last two years. There's always a chance a cap floor team will take him. Gimme a 7th rounder with no salary retained, and we're good.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 1, 2014 11:57:25 GMT -5
Performance bonuses are not completely "cap free". A team can exceed the cap limit with bonus to a maximum of 7.5% of that limit. However , that exceeding amount is taken off the following year's cap number for that team.
BC's calculation are realistic but it relies on: an initial cap figure of 71 (which many believe will not be met due to the drop of the Canadian dollar) having only 30K of CAP leeway for the season shuffling 3million of salary (bonuses) to the 2015-2016 season trading Bourque without taking an equivalent problem in return
All possible I agree but I wouldn't call it slam dunk.
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Post by Polarice on Apr 1, 2014 12:13:04 GMT -5
I don't think trading Bourque will be an issue. This summer teams will be looking to get to the floor and will take a couple of these contracts. I would also look at letting Gio walk, I would feel better giving his roster spot to another grinder type player or a kid from within our system.
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Post by franko on Apr 1, 2014 12:46:12 GMT -5
Briere is traded to the Sabres play his final year before retiring. why would Barfallo do that? they aren't going anywhere next year and they and the fans know it. why take on $4M when they can slot in a youngster a lot cheaper? that being said, I'd be happy if they would.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 1, 2014 12:58:04 GMT -5
Briere is traded to the Sabres play his final year before retiring. why would Barfallo do that? they aren't going anywhere next year and they and the fans know it. why take on $4M when they can slot in a youngster a lot cheaper? that being said, I'd be happy if they would. They have to hit the cap floor. They have less than 37 mill committed to 16 players. The following are the rest of the current roster lineup (Player, 13/14 cap hit, 14/15 status) Ennis, Tyler 3.062 RFA Foligno, Marcus 0.900 RFA Scott, John 0.750 UFA Konopka, Zenon 1.000 UFA Conacher, Cory 0.925 RFA McBain, Jamie 1.900 RFA Ruhwedel, Chad 0.925 RFA Hackett, Matt 0.715 RFA With the cap going up to 71 mill and the floor around 53 mill, Somehow I don't see the group above commanding over 15 million in salary. Also, Buffalo is interested in bringing back former players. They had a Hasek night a couple of days ago, they brought back Pat Lafontaine (he's gone now), and I assume they would bring back Danny while they are in full rebuild mode.
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Post by franko on Apr 1, 2014 13:14:13 GMT -5
why would Barfallo do that? they aren't going anywhere next year and they and the fans know it. why take on $4M when they can slot in a youngster a lot cheaper? They have to hit the cap floor. They have less than 37 mill committed to 16 players. With the cap going up to 71 mill and the floor around 53 mill, Somehow I don't see the group above commanding over 15 million in salary. Also, Buffalo is interested in bringing back former players. They had a Hasek night a couple of days ago, they brought back Pat Lafontaine (he's gone now), and I assume they would bring back Danny while they are in full rebuild mode. like I said, I'm good with it.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 1, 2014 13:20:36 GMT -5
Bonuses DO count towards the cap. capgeek.com/player/2276Beaulieu - AHL salary = $70,000 NHL salary = $925,000 Performance bonuses = $350,000 Signing bonus = $92,500 AAV = $1,275,000 Actual cap hit = $925,000 If you click on the icon next to the column at cap geek, the circle with the "i" in the middle, it explains each calculation. For instance, Galchenyuk, has 2.3 million in bonuses in his contract next year. You click and see his cap hit is $925,000, excluding all bonuses. If you click on P.Bonuses you see that the 2.3 million is factored into the cap hit. I think it is fair to say that Galchenyuk is a player who could meet all his bonuses. We have to factor those bonuses in, cause if we go to the cap limit, we will be deferring millions into the next year. Marc Bergevin also doesn't strike me as someone who is willing to go to the brink of the cap ... His experience with not doing that this year proved beneficial.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 1, 2014 13:27:57 GMT -5
Performance bonuses are not completely "cap free". A team can exceed the cap limit with bonus to a maximum of 7.5% of that limit. However , that exceeding amount is taken off the following year's cap number for that team. BC's calculation are realistic but it relies on: an initial cap figure of 71 (which many believe will not be met due to the drop of the Canadian dollar) having only 30K of CAP leeway for the season shuffling 3million of salary (bonuses) to the 2015-2016 season trading Bourque without taking an equivalent problem in return All possible I agree but I wouldn't call it slam dunk. I believe, although I'm not entirely sure, but as I understood it, during the season a team is allowed to go over the upper salary limit due to playing bonuses by 7.5% of the cap. Actual bonuses paid out are calculated throughout the season, if the team can not bring their cap number down below the upper limit by seasons end, then the full amount over is transferred to the next season as a penalty
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Post by Skilly on Apr 1, 2014 13:40:11 GMT -5
Capgeek says we have spent $64, 107, 798 on payroll this year excluding performance bonuses. On the roster $2.907,500 in total performance bonuses can be met from the contracts of Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, and Tinordi. If Beaulieu makes next years team, the. We have $3, 257,500 in possible bonuses.
I'm not sure what their bonuses are ... Games played? Goals? Minutes played? ....but we are only $200,000 to the cap now. It is possible we will be carrying over a penalty to next year that we are not accounting for in these roster scenarios.
I'm also not fond of having the exact same team next year, just to be under the cap ... We still have missing pieces that need addressing
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Post by Skilly on Apr 1, 2014 14:06:22 GMT -5
I think we will be okay this year ... The NHL spells out the schedule A performance bonuses, and I don't think Galchenyuk will meet any. And I don't think he will get any hardware to meet and schedule B performances.
However, one thing is a little clearer to me. One of the entry level performances is time played. You have to be one of the top six forwards on the team. Explains the 10-14 minutes Galchenyuk has been getting.
He isn't going to get 20 goals, or 35 assists, or 0.73 points per game
The other bonus is paid out if you are among the top three on your team in plus minus, Galchenyuk is one of the worst on our team.
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Post by christrpn on Apr 1, 2014 16:48:29 GMT -5
Signing Subban and Vanek to long term 8 yr deals at $8M/yr is fine. If you can fit Markov in there as well, great. Problem is that we want to keep guys like Galchenyuk and Gallagher past their respective ELC, no? Does having that much money tied up in 2/3 guys really worth it? Say Galchenyuk has a break-out year next year, as does Gallagher. Their ELC ends next year. MB signs them to bridge deals equaling apprx: $5.5M/yr for both for 2 yrs. So now we have a 33 yr old Vanek that may or may not be producing the way he is now, eating $8M, Subban also eating $8M. We can assume that the two Galleys will be hitting their peaks by this time. do we have a scenario were all these players fit? We've replaced Gorges, Tinordi and Beaulieu are in their final ELC, if not in bridge territory. These are things to consider when talking 8 yr deals.
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