|
Post by habsorbed on Apr 6, 2014 0:47:42 GMT -5
I don't know what's going on but lately PK has been playing like an undependable #7, on the order of a FB. Is it the fat-lipped coach? Ego? An injury? Something unrelated to hockey? Watching tonight's game I was thinking the same thing. Over the last 3 weeks PK has played the worst hockey of his career. What's happened? I really hope it is an injury but I fear MT has finally defeated the guy, and it is to PK's and the team's detriment. He can no longer rush the puck, has no shot, misses his patented body checks, and is worse in his own end than ever. WTF!!! Last night we had 7 goals, tonight we had 5, and I don't believe PK had a point. I want the real PK back. And if anyone was still wondering about MT's in game coaching ability: can you please explain to me his decision tonight when we had to kill a two man penalty. Pleks goes to the box with 30 seconds left in our other penalty. So we are 2 men short for 30 seconds with the face off in our zone. Seems to me winning that face off is somewhat critical to just get an ice. AND MT HAS GIONTA OUT FOR THE FACE OFF!!! WTF!!!
|
|
|
Post by GNick99 on Apr 6, 2014 5:17:26 GMT -5
Any chance they would trade Subban?
|
|
|
Post by christrpn on Apr 6, 2014 6:13:58 GMT -5
Any chance they would trade Subban? If, and it's a big IF, MB has made the decision to let PK go, it would probably be only if he locks up Vanek. Once he does that, he will probably wait until Subban gets an offer sheet. Then he gets a plethora of picks in compensation. Or he tries to make a move for some roster players/blue chip prospects and go up in the draft this year. I really like Subban, haven't had an exciting player like him in the 20yrs I've been religiously following the habs. That includes the likes of Kovalev. That being said, I hate the way he's been snuffed. It's one thing to hear the haters say he's immature, he should calm down. Know his place. I can always return with "his place is putting the puck in your net." It's something entirely different when the hate is coming from within. I hear the negotiations have been stopped. By management. Confirmed by Meehan.
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Apr 6, 2014 6:25:41 GMT -5
Any chance they would trade Subban? If, and it's a big IF, MB has made the decision to let PK go, it would probably be only if he locks up Vanek. Once he does that, he will probably wait until Subban gets an offer sheet. Then he gets a plethora of picks in compensation. Or he tries to make a move for some roster players/blue chip prospects and go up in the draft this year. I really like Subban, haven't had an exciting player like him in the 20yrs I've been religiously following the habs. That includes the likes of Kovalev. That being said, I hate the way he's been snuffed. It's one thing to hear the haters say he's immature, he should calm down. Know his place. I can always return with "his place is putting the puck in your net." It's something entirely different when the hate is coming from within. I hear the negotiations have been stopped. By management. Confirmed by Meehan. Bergevin would never let Subban go for just picks. Getting just picks & no players would set the team back years & create a huge hole in the D. Who fills those 20+ minutes Subban plays? Friedman's last blog said that it was Subban that decided to wait until the end of the season to negotiate, not the team. Friedman is reliable & one of the few voices I trust in the media. See thought #9: www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2014/03/30-thoughts-leafs-reimer-should-follow-cammalleris-lead.html
|
|
|
Post by GNick99 on Apr 6, 2014 8:31:15 GMT -5
Any chance they would trade Subban? If, and it's a big IF, MB has made the decision to let PK go, it would probably be only if he locks up Vanek. Once he does that, he will probably wait until Subban gets an offer sheet. Then he gets a plethora of picks in compensation. Or he tries to make a move for some roster players/blue chip prospects and go up in the draft this year. I really like Subban, haven't had an exciting player like him in the 20yrs I've been religiously following the habs. That includes the likes of Kovalev. That being said, I hate the way he's been snuffed. It's one thing to hear the haters say he's immature, he should calm down. Know his place. I can always return with "his place is putting the puck in your net." It's something entirely different when the hate is coming from within. I hear the negotiations have been stopped. By management. Confirmed by Meehan. I think they need a core player back to move Subban. Instead of draft picks, as rest of team is in win now mode. It will likely boil down to how big rift is between him and Therrein. Going by Subban's play of late...definitely something going on.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Apr 6, 2014 11:10:51 GMT -5
The Habs are not in a position to get much of anything for Subban, who can simply take a qualifying offer and become a UFA after next season. No team is going to want to trade for him, or give up anything close to fair value in return, unless they can sign him to a long- term deal. Someone might put out an offer sheet this summer, but the Habs are in a position to match or better the best offer.
I can't really see a scenario where PK doesn't sign a long-term deal here. Berg simply can't allow PK to walk, but that was the trade-off when he signed him to the bridge deal. Berg could have used his leverage then to sign PK to a 6-year deal at a friendlier cap hit over the life of the deal, but he decided that he needed the extra money to sign the likes of Briere. Now PK has all the leverage, and despite all this stuff with Therrien, I truly believe he wants to stay here. But it won't come cheap. 8 years and $64 million sounds about right.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Apr 6, 2014 11:56:53 GMT -5
I don't know what's going on but lately PK has been playing like an undependable #7, on the order of a FB. Is it the fat-lipped coach? Ego? An injury? Something unrelated to hockey? Lack of hockey sense maybe?? I don't think it's lack of hockey sense ... Maybe over-estimating his ability. Last year things came easy, and this year the league has caught on. I just think PK is trying to do too much to justify his Norris. He just has to be left to play his game, they are over coaching him just as they did to Carey Price the past three seasons
|
|
|
Post by Anardil1 on Apr 6, 2014 14:36:25 GMT -5
Lack of hockey sense maybe?? I don't think it's lack of hockey sense ... Maybe over-estimating his ability. Last year things came easy, and this year the league has caught on. I just think PK is trying to do too much to justify his Norris. He just has to be left to play his game, they are over coaching him just as they did to Carey Price the past three seasons I have to agree with Habitual here. Something has always bothered me about Subban's game. After analyzing his play since his joining the Habs here are my observations on how I came to my conclusion. - Remember when PK first came up? He would always use his "reach for the rafters" wind up. His shots were Gaston Gingras wild, and everyone was afraid to get in front of the net. It took some time (and probably coaching, suggestions from teammates etc) before PK modified his wind up. - Even now he still has trouble getting his shot by his checker. It's as if he hasn't figured out that a fake slapper to get his checker to commit then skate to open space. Or even something as simple as using a snap or wrist shot is just as effective as his big slapper. - He has the hands to skate the puck through the entire opposition, but when he enters the offensive zone, the play often dies, as he hangs on to the puck too long, or makes a bad decision with it. In my opinion, PK is a special player because he is supremely skilled, and extremely confident in his abilities. If he had more hockey IQ, we would be talking about PK as an all time great. I still believe that PK an extremely important building block for this team. Oh, and to answer the question asked, I do believe that it is personal, however, ultimately the answer will be revealed during the summer.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Apr 6, 2014 22:28:41 GMT -5
MT put an end to the Subban-Price low-fives after a win.
Observation.....
As the team is going off the ice after a W, Subban remains at the bench door, congratulating every one of his teammates.
Is he hanging on to this ritual in defiance? Or is it just his thing/superstition?
Do other teams have one guy always being the last-man-off after a victory?
I wonder if that bothers MT as well.....who knows.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 6, 2014 22:47:04 GMT -5
Lack of hockey sense maybe?? I don't think it's lack of hockey sense ... Maybe over-estimating his ability. Last year things came easy, and this year the league has caught on. I just think PK is trying to do too much to justify his Norris. He just has to be left to play his game, they are over coaching him just as they did to Carey Price the past three seasons I heard Cherry did something on Subban last night so I watched the replay earlier today. Subban tried two hip checks, both missed and ended up costing the team each time. According to him that's why Subban was benched. What it looked like to me was PK trying to duplicate what Emelin did to Lucic in Boston. Only Emelin knows how to do it. I'm not saying this is the reason his play has ebbed recently. Just a suggestion. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 6, 2014 22:48:28 GMT -5
MT put an end to the Subban-Price low-fives after a win. Observation..... As the team is going off the ice after a W, Subban remains at the bench door, congratulating every one of his teammates. Is he hanging on to this ritual in defiance? Or is it just his thing/superstition? Do other teams have one guy always being the last-man-off after a victory? I wonder if that bothers MT as well.....who knows. Maybe he's trying to show some leadership. I remember Craig Rivet doing that a few years back. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Apr 6, 2014 23:10:34 GMT -5
Could be, Dis....but I've heard a few people say that it's just another example of him wanting to be in the spotlight. "Look at me!"
And if MT is one of his detractors....
I'm not trying to unnecessarily stir a perhaps non-existent pot....just reporting what I hear.
Maybe he did the same thing in Belleville and Hamilton. If so, it's just one of his rituals.
|
|
|
Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 7, 2014 4:33:19 GMT -5
Jack Todd wrote an interesting article on Subban that points out a lot of concerns I have had with him for a few years. www.montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/montreal-canadiens/Jack+Todd+Habs+momentous+decision/9706824/story.htmlI can believe there may be some personal aspect to MT and PK but nothing like the Trembley/Roy situation. I think MT has a strict code for no one being bigger then the team but I think when on the ice PK is very much a "me first" kind of player. I don't feel MT tries to stifle Subban's offense or make a big hit but has tried all year teach him when it is a good time for it or when you need to play smart and put the team first and I think Subbans decision making is either he doesn't get it or doesn't listen. We all like to watch Subban wind up in his own end and go end to end but how often has he done that where he leaves his forwards standing at the opposing blue line and the play goes no where. Teams will let players skate all day with the puck all day until they reach the zone and then force the play. How often have we seen Subban spin and circle at the blue line playing keep away with the puck to eventually have it taken away or go off side when he could have chipped it in deep where a forward is waiting along the boards? His play in his own end has always been suspect and missing two big hits that lead to goals or soft coverage in front of the net happens too often.
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Apr 7, 2014 5:39:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Apr 7, 2014 7:09:09 GMT -5
Couldn't have anything to do with being paired with Bouillon, could it? No....what am I thinking?
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Apr 7, 2014 7:44:23 GMT -5
Couldn't have anything to do with being paired with Bouillon, could it? No....what am I thinking? He's played with 4-5 D partners that I can remember. Markov, Boullion, Murray, Gorges & Tinordi I think. I think it would be difficult to be changing partners like this.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 7, 2014 9:32:46 GMT -5
This is typical Todd - all opinion & no facts. You can't make major decisions thinking like that. Show me the hard data on Subban ( as that one commentator on the article posted) & you are likely to see the Habs best D man. Actually Todd did use facts. Subban (failed in his Alexei Emelin impression and) sucked huge against Ottawa. He was also benched at the beginning of the year when he played for Jacques Martin. Todd referenced both of those and those are facts. I think there's a big difference between this time and now. Subban was playing like a Norris Trophy winner before the Olympics, but not so much now. I honestly do not know what caused this. However, I would have liked to see Therrien treat everyone fairly, which I think is a bigger issue than singling out Subban. Publicly singling out a star player can be counterproductive. It humiliates the player and if that has happened to Subban then it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was over-trying to make an impression ... and sometimes that backfires. Not saying this is so, but I think there's a lot more to this scenario than singling out Subban. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Apr 7, 2014 9:52:04 GMT -5
This is typical Todd - all opinion & no facts. You can't make major decisions thinking like that. Show me the hard data on Subban ( as that one commentator on the article posted) & you are likely to see the Habs best D man. Actually Todd did use facts. Subban (failed in his Alexei Emelin impression and) sucked huge against Ottawa. He was also benched at the beginning of the year when he played for Jacques Martin. Todd referenced both of those and those are facts. I think there's a big difference between this time and now. Subban was playing like a Norris Trophy winner before the Olympics, but not so much now. I honestly do not know what caused this. However, I would have liked to see Therrien treat everyone fairly, which I think is a bigger issue than singling out Subban. Publicly singling out a star player can be counterproductive. It humiliates the player and if that has happened to Subban then it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was over-trying to make an impression ... and sometimes that backfires.
Not saying this is so, but I think there's a lot more to this scenario than singling out Subban. Cheers. Been talking to friends last weekend, and I was complaining about Subban and his play, etc....and I also mentioned how Therrien treats PK...and one of them said, he's doesn't reall signal him out, other than the odd benching. As for the Subban remarks, he gets more press, because that all he gets asked about....why this, why that. Therrien usually dances around most of these questions but sometimes he will give an honest answer.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 7, 2014 10:34:37 GMT -5
The Habs are not in a position to get much of anything for Subban, who can simply take a qualifying offer and become a UFA after next season. Was talking about this very thing the other day. It's entirely possible Subban could opt for this and just wait it out. Then we'd probably see him in a big market where there's a bonafide chance at winning a Cup. LA, SJ, Anaheim and if he doesn't mind a colder climate, Boston. Edmonton on draft day; Justin Schultz (RHD), Nail Yakupov (he's a headcase but I doubt Edmonton would move on Ryan Nugent-Hopkins) and Edmonton's first might get it done. #not going to happenBack to reality ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by GNick99 on Apr 7, 2014 10:37:08 GMT -5
Couldn't have anything to do with being paired with Bouillon, could it? No....what am I thinking? Or Gorges being out?
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Apr 7, 2014 12:06:12 GMT -5
The Habs are not in a position to get much of anything for Subban, who can simply take a qualifying offer and become a UFA after next season. No team is going to want to trade for him, or give up anything close to fair value in return, unless they can sign him to a long- term deal. Someone might put out an offer sheet this summer, but the Habs are in a position to match or better the best offer. I can't really see a scenario where PK doesn't sign a long-term deal here. Berg simply can't allow PK to walk, but that was the trade-off when he signed him to the bridge deal. Berg could have used his leverage then to sign PK to a 6-year deal at a friendlier cap hit over the life of the deal, but he decided that he needed the extra money to sign the likes of Briere. Now PK has all the leverage, and despite all this stuff with Therrien, I truly believe he wants to stay here. But it won't come cheap. 8 years and $64 million sounds about right. I don't think there was ever a cap-friendly deal on the table for Subban, other than the bridge deal. Subban has always wanted Doughty money, there was lots of talk about it coming out of the lockout. Doughty makes $7 million. So even if Subban gets $8 million that two extra years on the bridge contract was a line a well drawn. But I don't see him going anywhere either. I see another holdout as being much more likely than a trade or an offer sheet, though with the latter I could see the Edmonton Oilers or Philadelphia Flyers doing something stupid. But if that happens you just match and carry on. Plus the Flyers don't have the second round draft pick that would allow them to make an offer under $8.4 million, and I don't know if they have the cap space to offer more than that. They've already got $58 million committed for 2015. I suppose an offer could come in from elsewhere, but like I said worst case scenario you've blown the bridge contract and you're paying a 25 year old Norris trophy winner a little bit more than you had planned to. <shrug> There are worse things. I don't think this will be an easy negotiation, and like I said I could very easily see this going to a holdout, but I do see something getting done eventually.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Apr 7, 2014 12:46:55 GMT -5
Pretty good article IMO, but I'm biased because I tend to like Todd's writing. As Todd states from opinions he's heard, he doesn't think Therrien is singling out PK and I agree. I do think though, that Therrien has a certain mindset about young players and a mind set about veterans. The consequences for one group are different than those for another. I'll throw out two examples. The first is Desharnais. No one can argue that his play was abysmal for the first quarter of the season. Consequences from Therrien? Nearly nothing. The amount of rope he gave Desharnais was enough to circle the earth several times. I also don't think anyone can argue that nothing changed until Therrien actually benched him. He came back, scored a shoot out goal and the rest is history. It is difficult to imagine Therrien giving Tinordi or Galchy that kind of leeway before taking the same action. I'm just talking production, because we've seen enough of DD in his own zone (that whole line is still pretty suspect in our zone IMO) to warrant more than a few benchings.
Bourque. Yeah, he eventually sat him, but a more sorry excuse for a waste of a roster spot can't be found on the Habs or likely in the entire NHL. I'd hate to see his Corsi numbers up close because I don't think I could climb out of that hole. It took a very long time for Therrien to bench him. I understand he has to play him occasionally to maintain him as part of the team, but he continues to show nothing has changed in his play. He's a bit more energetic his first game back and then it disappears. Anyone want to bet we don't notice him in the next game?
PK plays defense where a mistake is more obvious and more costly, but it's hard to understand how much his consistency has changed. The Olympics probably played a part in it, increasing the pressure, and I think the Norris last year also has put pressure on him to make a difference every game. That's where coaching comes in. Whether it's Daigneault or Therrien, there hasn't been a good job done on PK to temper the expectations in his head. Where is Larry Robinson when you need him? PK has special abilities and some coaches just can't manage those kinds of players.
HF, I don't see example of what you alluded to, PK being a "Me first" type of player. I've seen those examples of him holding on to the puck and nothing results from it. I don't equate to to being selfish. On that point, I'll use an example of my soccer days. Our old timers team has an outstanding player who I've mentioned before. He can beat anyone in our league one on one and he holds onto the ball and often tries to dribble it right into the net. Way too many of our guys watch this and enjoy the show. When I'm up front with him, I just get into open space and voila, the ball finds itself onto my feet. I think he also trusts me more not to screw it up as some of the other guys on our team have no touch at all. He loves to win, absolutely hates to lose and that may be more of PK's make-up than a selfish one. I just haven't seen any signs of selfishness that I've seen with others. A much better example of that is Bourque who has trouble playing with just about anyone.
Now maybe PK is being too selective with who he passes to. I've also pointed out before that he holds onto the puck too long trying for a perfect type of play instead of letting the game flow to him and moving the puck more quickly. I think he's a hard guy to play with and he needs to improve that aspect. How often has he been involved in a key goal in OT or late in a game, simply because he has that much skill, even when he's cost us a couple of goals earlier in the game? You can't teach that talent, so Therrien has to find a way to get the best out of him and remove the worst, without trying to change his personality. I hope PK sees the playoffs as a new season and a new start and concentrates on his basics. That will be great for him and all of us.
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Apr 7, 2014 13:08:39 GMT -5
Actually Todd did use facts. Subban (failed in his Alexei Emelin impression and) sucked huge against Ottawa. He was also benched at the beginning of the year when he played for Jacques Martin. Todd referenced both of those and those are facts. I think there's a big difference between this time and now. Subban was playing like a Norris Trophy winner before the Olympics, but not so much now. I honestly do not know what caused this. However, I would have liked to see Therrien treat everyone fairly, which I think is a bigger issue than singling out Subban. Publicly singling out a star player can be counterproductive. It humiliates the player and if that has happened to Subban then it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was over-trying to make an impression ... and sometimes that backfires.
Not saying this is so, but I think there's a lot more to this scenario than singling out Subban. Cheers. Been talking to friends last weekend, and I was complaining about Subban and his play, etc....and I also mentioned how Therrien treats PK...and one of them said, he's doesn't reall signal him out, other than the odd benching. As for the Subban remarks, he gets more press, because that all he gets asked about....why this, why that. Therrien usually dances around most of these questions but sometimes he will give an honest answer. When I talk about facts I mean hard numbers. I looking for statistical analysis - the type that Boston Habs references regularly. How about an analyis for the entire season and with his different partners. IMO, this will tell you a lot more than discussing his various benchings. That's just too subjective.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Apr 7, 2014 13:32:43 GMT -5
I drove to Toronto this morning and listened to 590 and am I ever glad I'm not a leaf fan. Surprisingly they have been very complementary to the habs. They talk more about the habs than tsn1200 does in ottawa.
All in all a very enjoyable ride.
Edit:I'm wearing my habs jacket wjile waiting at the airport.
|
|
|
Post by GNick99 on Apr 7, 2014 15:11:30 GMT -5
Pretty good article IMO, but I'm biased because I tend to like Todd's writing. As Todd states from opinions he's heard, he doesn't think Therrien is singling out PK and I agree. I do think though, that Therrien has a certain mindset about young players and a mind set about veterans. The consequences for one group are different than those for another. I'll throw out two examples. The first is Desharnais. No one can argue that his play was abysmal for the first quarter of the season. Consequences from Therrien? Nearly nothing. The amount of rope he gave Desharnais was enough to circle the earth several times. I also don't think anyone can argue that nothing changed until Therrien actually benched him. He came back, scored a shoot out goal and the rest is history. It is difficult to imagine Therrien giving Tinordi or Galchy that kind of leeway before taking the same action. I'm just talking production, because we've seen enough of DD in his own zone (that whole line is still pretty suspect in our zone IMO) to warrant more than a few benchings. Bourque. Yeah, he eventually sat him, but a more sorry excuse for a waste of a roster spot can't be found on the Habs or likely in the entire NHL. I'd hate to see his Corsi numbers up close because I don't think I could climb out of that hole. It took a very long time for Therrien to bench him. I understand he has to play him occasionally to maintain him as part of the team, but he continues to show nothing has changed in his play. He's a bit more energetic his first game back and then it disappears. Anyone want to bet we don't notice him in the next game? PK plays defense where a mistake is more obvious and more costly, but it's hard to understand how much his consistency has changed. The Olympics probably played a part in it, increasing the pressure, and I think the Norris last year also has put pressure on him to make a difference every game. That's where coaching comes in. Whether it's Daigneault or Therrien, there hasn't been a good job done on PK to temper the expectations in his head. Where is Larry Robinson when you need him? PK has special abilities and some coaches just can't manage those kinds of players. HF, I don't see example of what you alluded to, PK being a "Me first" type of player. I've seen those examples of him holding on to the puck and nothing results from it. I don't equate to to being selfish. On that point, I'll use an example of my soccer days. Our old timers team has an outstanding player who I've mentioned before. He can beat anyone in our league one on one and he holds onto the ball and often tries to dribble it right into the net. Way too many of our guys watch this and enjoy the show. When I'm up front with him, I just get into open space and voila, the ball finds itself onto my feet. I think he also trusts me more not to screw it up as some of the other guys on our team have no touch at all. He loves to win, absolutely hates to lose and that may be more of PK's make-up than a selfish one. I just haven't seen any signs of selfishness that I've seen with others. A much better example of that is Bourque who has trouble playing with just about anyone. Now maybe PK is being too selective with who he passes to. I've also pointed out before that he holds onto the puck too long trying for a perfect type of play instead of letting the game flow to him and moving the puck more quickly. I think he's a hard guy to play with and he needs to improve that aspect. How often has he been involved in a key goal in OT or late in a game, simply because he has that much skill, even when he's cost us a couple of goals earlier in the game? You can't teach that talent, so Therrien has to find a way to get the best out of him and remove the worst, without trying to change his personality. I hope PK sees the playoffs as a new season and a new start and concentrates on his basics. That will be great for him and all of us. Too much is being made of Subban..just lost his defense partner for a month. When all this started after Gorges went down Subban defensive shortcomings came to light. More when Bouillon is his partner. Bouillion couldn't carry Gorges jock strap defensively
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 7, 2014 15:43:18 GMT -5
Too much is being made of Subban..just lost his defense partner for a month. When all this started after Gorges went down Subban defensive shortcomings came to light. More when Bouillon is his partner. Bouillion couldn't carry Gorges jock strap defensively Could be man. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Apr 7, 2014 17:05:00 GMT -5
Been talking to friends last weekend, and I was complaining about Subban and his play, etc....and I also mentioned how Therrien treats PK...and one of them said, he's doesn't reall signal him out, other than the odd benching. As for the Subban remarks, he gets more press, because that all he gets asked about....why this, why that. Therrien usually dances around most of these questions but sometimes he will give an honest answer. When I talk about facts I mean hard numbers. I looking for statistical analysis - the type that Boston Habs references regularly. How about an analyis for the entire season and with his different partners. IMO, this will tell you a lot more than discussing his various benchings. That's just too subjective. The Habs have used 24 different defensive pairing this year that have played more than 30 minutes together. The worst pairing is Bouillon - Emelin who have played 43:37 together and have surrendered 5.5 goals per 60 mins of even strength ice time. The next 4 worse ALL include Subban. 23. Subban - Tinordi 22. Subban - Bouillon 21. Subban - Murray 20. Subban - Markov Subban- Gorges is 17th out of the 24 pairings Habs Defense Pairings
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Apr 7, 2014 17:38:21 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Apr 7, 2014 17:49:42 GMT -5
Too much is being made of Subban..just lost his defense partner for a month. When all this started after Gorges went down Subban defensive shortcomings came to light. More when Bouillon is his partner. Bouillion couldn't carry Gorges jock strap defensively Could be man. Cheers. Good point, Gnick. That could be all it is, though someone of PK's caliber should be able to play with (and carry) anyone.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Apr 7, 2014 18:31:03 GMT -5
You have to be careful with stats because you can often make varying points with them, but I especially enjoyed the piece on Tinordi because it jives exactly with what I've been thinking and saying, without the benefit of any supporting data. The young guys need to play to develop and if they'd been played earlier this season, they'd be playing darn well right now. AND we'd have two young, talented guys ready for the playoffs and primed to immprove even more. I was quite surprised at the actual goals against per 60 minutes for Bouillon, though I shouldn't be. Just check the highlights for goals scored against, and Cubie seems to be on the ice for many of them. I don't believe in coincidences, so if he's there, there's fire. The article highlighting Tinordi and Beaulieu also may explain why some of our young talents don't impress at the aHL level. They're thinking at a faster pace than their teammates who just don't get it. I'm chuckling inside because I remember early in Markov's career, he'd make a pass to absolutely no one and get criticized for it and I'd be thinking, "Where is so and so?, He should have been right there, because it's such a great spot and Markov read it but no one else did". Anyway, he was just playing 3 chess moves ahead of everyone else and not many recognized it. To balance things off, the author doesn't appear to be a fan of Michel Therrien and that may be slanting the article. Hard to argue with the data, though.
|
|