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Post by CentreHice on Apr 7, 2014 21:53:37 GMT -5
The Hockey NewsTitle of the story is misleading. No need to "redeem himself". PK did nothing wrong...it was an accident. You could see the concern on his face right after it happened. Good on him. I think (would hope) most players would do likewise in that situation.
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 8, 2014 0:54:17 GMT -5
The Hockey NewsTitle of the story is misleading. No need to "redeem himself". PK did nothing wrong...it was an accident. You could see the concern on his face right after it happened. Good on him. I think (would hope) most players would do likewise in that situation. PK gets it! Too bad so many "hockey fans" don't get him!
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 8, 2014 1:03:11 GMT -5
You have to be careful with stats because you can often make varying points with them, but I especially enjoyed the piece on Tinordi because it jives exactly with what I've been thinking and saying, without the benefit of any supporting data. The young guys need to play to develop and if they'd been played earlier this season, they'd be playing darn well right now. AND we'd have two young, talented guys ready for the playoffs and primed to immprove even more. I was quite surprised at the actual goals against per 60 minutes for Bouillon, though I shouldn't be. Just check the highlights for goals scored against, and Cubie seems to be on the ice for many of them. I don't believe in coincidences, so if he's there, there's fire. The article highlighting Tinordi and Beaulieu also may explain why some of our young talents don't impress at the aHL level. They're thinking at a faster pace than their teammates who just don't get it. I'm chuckling inside because I remember early in Markov's career, he'd make a pass to absolutely no one and get criticized for it and I'd be thinking, "Where is so and so?, He should have been right there, because it's such a great spot and Markov read it but no one else did". Anyway, he was just playing 3 chess moves ahead of everyone else and not many recognized it. To balance things off, the author doesn't appear to be a fan of Michel Therrien and that may be slanting the article. Hard to argue with the data, though. Yup! gotta be very careful with stats. Interesting that those same stats have one forward on each of our top three forward line combos and that would be none other than Bourque. I also agree that PK thinks at a different level. Well beyond MT and the older Dmen he's played with. The next generation has arrived around the league and they are creative and brash. And they've made the NHL a better product! Too bad MT and perhaps the Habs organization still believes that one has to earn their stripes before getting a fair shake. Most teams including the top ones all have wonderful young, very young talent, who are major contributors to their team's success. Even a talent like AGal isn't given an opportunity to shine. PK was so good he could not be denied but he's paid a price thanks to MT.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Apr 8, 2014 3:38:02 GMT -5
It seems both these articles were written by the same person who obviously is not a Therrien fan. Defenesman like Murray or Weaver are not as mobile or talented in the way Subban is but they serve a difference purpose. These are the type of players that are only concerned with 5 feet around their own net and do a good job of keeping the lanes clear and allowing the goalie to make the save. When i say Subban is a "me first" type of player it is because I feel at times he makes poor decisions with the based on his desire hold the puck too long or attempt a big hit rather than making the smart hockey play. Too often he causes his team to turn over the puck or give up an odd man rush based on his play when it could have been avoided. I don't think that means Subban should not be offensive. He can rush the puck with the best in the league, his shot from the point is probably one of the best and his defensive abilities are better than he is given credit for so he has all the tools to be great but I honestly feel there is something missing in how he sees the game in front of him. Elite players should make the players around them better and Subban is at his best when playing with Markov, but Emilen is at his best playing with Markov and so have several other players over the years, so the pattern is Markov makes Subban better, not visa versa. I would like to see Subban stay in Montreal but at times I feel he is the next coming of Sandis Ozolnish rather than the next Bobby Orr.
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Post by jkr on Apr 8, 2014 7:01:25 GMT -5
It seems both these articles were written by the same person who obviously is not a Therrien fan. Defenesman like Murray or Weaver are not as mobile or talented in the way Subban is but they serve a difference purpose. These are the type of players that are only concerned with 5 feet around their own net and do a good job of keeping the lanes clear and allowing the goalie to make the save. When i say Subban is a "me first" type of player it is because I feel at times he makes poor decisions with the based on his desire hold the puck too long or attempt a big hit rather than making the smart hockey play. Too often he causes his team to turn over the puck or give up an odd man rush based on his play when it could have been avoided. I don't think that means Subban should not be offensive. He can rush the puck with the best in the league, his shot from the point is probably one of the best and his defensive abilities are better than he is given credit for so he has all the tools to be great but I honestly feel there is something missing in how he sees the game in front of him. Elite players should make the players around them better and Subban is at his best when playing with Markov, but Emilen is at his best playing with Markov and so have several other players over the years, so the pattern is Markov makes Subban better, not visa versa. I would like to see Subban stay in Montreal but at times I feel he is the next coming of Sandis Ozolnish rather than the next Bobby Orr. Can't agree with yor assertion that Murray is doing a good job. He's down to -12 now & even that simple stat tells me a lot. Weaver on the other hand, has more mobility than Murray and is chipping in offensively. I woud say good bye to Murray & consider hanging on to Weaver.
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Post by habernac on Apr 8, 2014 8:53:32 GMT -5
Perhaps PK is like Crosby in that he thinks the game too fast for most teammates to keep up with. But he still needs to make better decisions in his own end.
Seventeen, I am totally with you on the Tinordi, Beaulieu front. I saw the Habs on their western swing, Tinordi made an error and was sent back to Hamilton for months. Drove me crazy because you can see how good this kid is going to be if he just gets the ice time.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 8, 2014 10:23:51 GMT -5
It seems both these articles were written by the same person who obviously is not a Therrien fan. Defenesman like Murray or Weaver are not as mobile or talented in the way Subban is but they serve a difference purpose. These are the type of players that are only concerned with 5 feet around their own net and do a good job of keeping the lanes clear and allowing the goalie to make the save. When i say Subban is a "me first" type of player it is because I feel at times he makes poor decisions with the based on his desire hold the puck too long or attempt a big hit rather than making the smart hockey play. Too often he causes his team to turn over the puck or give up an odd man rush based on his play when it could have been avoided. I don't think that means Subban should not be offensive. He can rush the puck with the best in the league, his shot from the point is probably one of the best and his defensive abilities are better than he is given credit for so he has all the tools to be great but I honestly feel there is something missing in how he sees the game in front of him. Elite players should make the players around them better and Subban is at his best when playing with Markov, but Emilen is at his best playing with Markov and so have several other players over the years, so the pattern is Markov makes Subban better, not visa versa. I would like to see Subban stay in Montreal but at times I feel he is the next coming of Sandis Ozolnish rather than the next Bobby Orr. I actually think Subban is at his best with Gorges
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Apr 8, 2014 14:00:34 GMT -5
It seems both these articles were written by the same person who obviously is not a Therrien fan. Defenesmands like Murray or Weaver are not as mobile or talented in the way Subban is but they serve a difference purpose. These are the type of players that are only concerned with 5 feet around their own net and do a good job of keeping the lanes clear and allowing the goalie to make the save. When i say Subban is a "me first" type of player it is because I feel at times he makes poor decisions with the based on his desire hold the puck too long or attempt a big hit rather than making the smart hockey play. Too often he causes his team to turn over the puck or give up an odd man rush based on his play when it could have been avoided. I don't think that means Subban should not be offensive. He can rush the puck with the best in the league, his shot from the point is probably one of the best and his defensive abilities are better than he is given credit for so he has all the tools to be great but I honestly feel there is something missing in how he sees the game in front of him. Elite players should make the players around them better and Subban is at his best when playing with Markov, but Emilen is at his best playing with Markov and so have several other players over the years, so the pattern is Markov makes Subban better, not visa versa. I would like to see Subban stay in Montreal but at times I feel he is the next coming of Sandis Ozolnish rather than the next Bobby Orr. I actually think Subban is at his best with Gorges I don't think Subban skates as fast as he thinks he does. He is quick and shifty and uses fakes and quick turns to get open, but I've seen forwards blow by him and his rushes often end with multiple turns to get open vs Pacioretty type speed. If he plays within his limitations he does well. He has great moves, fast accurate shot, clean hard hits and smart first passes. His mistakes are costly as he has difficulty recovering. gorges style compliments him, but Gorges is a very ordinary player near the bottom of our defense depth chart. Subban Markov Tinordi Weaver Murray Gorges Beaulieu Booboo Don't think it can be personal. Toe Blake didn't have a lot of close friends amongst rookies. Other players have sat due to Therriens wrath too.
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Post by frozone on Apr 8, 2014 17:50:20 GMT -5
The Canadiens really need to make a plan for Subban. DD, Max and Vanek are given some freedom to work outside of MT's rigid "grinding" style, and the result speaks for itself. This line works because the players are all on the same page. Similarly, PK needs a bit of leash and he needs a defender like Markov or Gorges who can be on the same page as him. But when I see PK playing with Bouillon, Murray, the 4th line... that tells me that MT doesn't have a plan for Subban other than "he'll play if I think he's earned it".
If the coaching staff doesn't develop a plan for Subban, he'll be nothing more than a squandered weapon. They also need to develop a plan for Galchenyuk. Ditto Eller, Bournival and Tinordi. Even some of the veterans like Briere, there hasn't been a legitimate plan for him since day 1. That's the difference that I see between the Habs and the elite like Chicago, St Louis and Boston. Those teams are on the same page from A to Z. The Habs are just figuring it out as they go.
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Post by del on Apr 9, 2014 0:58:43 GMT -5
Is it personal between Therrien and Subban?....from Therrien's perspective.....hell yes!
From l'antichambre to the coach of the Habs, he has elevated post game analyst criticism to present day managerial disrespect. What little praise he spews to the media on PK's behalf, is nothing more than forced, lame platitudes and thinly veiled bulldoo and I can only guess that he believes this is enough to fool the fans into thinking that he is the all knowledgeable high priest and Subban is but a mere acolyte in sac cloth.
Is it personal between Subban and Therrien?......initially probably not so much, but now Subban is beginning to get a feel for the true underbelly of Therrien.....the lack of coaching skill, the lack of people skill, the ego, the double standard, the nepotism...all the shortcomings that I have to ask myself - how the hell did Therrien snowball Bergevin at the interviews? MT must have had someone write his answers to the probable interview questions because I think he is too stupid to answer anything intelligent on his own.
Subban on the other hand is not stupid and I think it's reasonable to assume that given this year of team success, he realises that Bergevin will be keeping Therrien for next year. If I'm Subban and agent, I'm thinking I really don't need Therrien's crap now, next year or quite possibly the years after, once Bergevin offers Therrien an extension. I accept the Q offer, play one more year of hell (and you know Therrien will make it just that) and get the %$#@ out of dodge.
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