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Post by PTH on Jun 1, 2014 0:41:51 GMT -5
I think if people are hoping to have seen the last of guys like Gorges, Moen, Brière and Bourque... these are warm bodies under contract, other than Gorges with little material trade value.... well, they'll be disappointed. It's not like this summer Bergevin suddenly gets a white slate. If he were to buy out Brière he'd still be the one looking like a fool for signing him.
And Bergevin has to consider injuries: while we had an OK season on that front, he has to assume that he'll have multiple guys hurt, often for less than 10 games (or whatever the key number is) so no cap relief, etc.
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Post by jkr on Jun 1, 2014 8:44:51 GMT -5
Oh, and if Bergevin wants to make some noise.... he could re-sign Vanek, and trade Pacioretty. Maybe for some grittier goal-scoring. Much more efficient than letting Vanek go and needing to look for gritty scoring elsewhere... Unless I'm reading the stats wrong, since 2012 Pacioretty has outscored Vanek. He's also 4 years younger & on a better deal. You have to keep him.
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Post by christrpn on Jun 1, 2014 12:00:55 GMT -5
With no actual lines built, this is what were looking at, a generous raise for Subban, if anybody thinks he's getting under $8M you're dreaming. A slight raise for Eller, Weise and White. This give us just over $13M to fill needed holes. Granted we could maybe Give Vanek what he wants and have a full line-up, but we would be right back where we are now. Barring some magic from MB this off season(trades) to dump dead weight, these are the people you would see on the ice for the Habs next year.
FORWARDS Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.685m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Daniel Briere ($4.000m) / Dale Weise ($1.000m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / Ryan White ($0.850m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($0.925m) /
/ Michael Bournival ($0.660m) /
/ Lars Eller ($2.500m) /
DEFENSEMEN Alexei Emelin ($4.100m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m) Nathan Beaulieu ($0.925m) / Jarred Tinordi ($0.870m) P.K. Subban ($9.000m) /
GOALTENDERS Carey Price ($6.500m) Peter Budaj ($1.400m)
BUYOUTS Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m) Scott Gomez ($0.000m)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,998,333; BONUSES: $3,257,500 CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $13,101,667
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Post by christrpn on Jun 1, 2014 12:09:12 GMT -5
So here is what it looks like with lines built, I added Markov to the mix at $6M and called up Pateryn and Nygren. Markov is there because we can't start with four rookies at d. So where exactly does th $6M Vanek fit here? We would undoubtedly have to make some sort of trade to clear up space down the middle for Galchenyuk and soace on the wing for Vanek. A sizeable dump. Like Plekky AND Bourque. Throw in Briere if you want to get something along the lines of a BIG winger in return. MB has a big job to do. This is where Patches contract helps us a ton.
FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.685m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($0.925m)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Lars Eller ($2.500m) / Dale Weise ($1.000m) Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Ryan White ($0.850m) / Michael Bournival ($0.660m)
Daniel Briere ($4.000m) /
DEFENSEMEN
P.K. Subban ($9.000m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Andrei Markov ($6.000m) / Alexei Emelin ($4.100m)
Jarred Tinordi ($0.870m) / Greg Pateryn ($0.563m)
Magnus Nygren ($0.859m) / Nathan Beaulieu ($0.925m)
GOALTENDERS Carey Price ($6.500m) Peter Budaj ($1.400m)
BUYOUTS Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m) Scott Gomez ($0.000m) ------
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,419,583; BONUSES: $3,323,750 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $5,680,417
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Post by PTH on Jun 1, 2014 12:34:45 GMT -5
Ouch. When you see a lineup set up like that, it shows how hard a GMs job can be...
At best, if we trade Plekanec and Budaj (and replace him with Tokarski) we might have 5.5 more available to try to add one serious player, but really, there isn't much wiggling room...
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Post by seventeen on Jun 1, 2014 12:53:08 GMT -5
While that line-up above is ok, firstly it would be another struggle to make the playoffs and secondly once we were there, it is not a line-up built for success. Good work, though Christrpn, to lay it out that way. I think Berg is going to try and sign Weaver, so his cap hit will be higher than any of our young dmen shown. With potential injuries, I don't think you want to go into the year with fewer than 5 veteran defensemen. The 4 'rookies' can be the depth and as they develop, can form a core, giving Berg the potential to trade one of the vets.
So I don't expect a lot of changes by training camp, but after the next trading deadline, we may see some different players in that line-up.
It seems, though, that to take that next step, some CAP space needs to be opened and the obvious moveable candidate is Pleks. High salary, questionable playoff abilities (even if he works hard), and more replaceable than any other position. Centres we have available are DD, Eller, Galchy, White and Bournival (who was always a centre until the NHL). Briere is still there as well. We are deeper at centre and defense than anywhere else and the pieces available which may have some value (Pleks and Gorges) are both at those positions. The hard part is that both have been Habs for a long time and there's an emotional attachment to them. From a risk/reward and replacement standpoint, though, they are our best bets for improvement.
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Post by PTH on Jun 1, 2014 13:20:29 GMT -5
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Post by PTH on Jun 2, 2014 7:27:15 GMT -5
Marc Bergevin press conference at 11, apparently to wrap up the season.
Heard on the radio, it's not impossible that some contracts will be mentioned - (me speculating: it's possible PK already has a deal all set up, or that Bergevin has already decided not to offer a contract to Vanek or Markov, or just that Bergevin will let us know what he's thinking, like Gainey did 10 years ago with Kovalev before signing him, etc.
It's also possible that we'll know ahead of time that some "minor" players won't be re-signed, guys like Parros or White for example.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 2, 2014 8:57:08 GMT -5
I do not expect major changes this off-season. Some free agents will re-sign, others are goners. Depending on what we do with Markov and Vanek we may have alot of money to play with on the open market, or next to none. There isn't alot out there this summer, so while the knee jerk reaction may be to let these two walk, the prudent move is probably to re-sign both if they are willing to sign to a reasonable deal.
In terms of trades, the one guy that i think has some value that we can afford to move is probably Plekanec. Bergevin should be on the horn to his old boss in Chicago to see if we can get something done. They've got wingers and defenceman galore that could be of interest to us.
Free-Agency Prior to July 1:
Re-sign RFAs: Lars Eller, Dale Weise, Ryan White (good depth guy give him his QO), PK Subban.
UFAs:
Offer Markov 2 years at around the same salary. Offer Weaver 1-2 years with a modest range (1.2 to 1.5 per) Offer Vanek 6yr/$6 million per - he wont take it but what the heck. Let Gionta, Parros, Murray & Bouillon walk.
Trade options:
1. Assuming Vanek doesn't want to sign and assuming all signs point to Minnesota. How about the rights to Vanek for the rights to Moulson? Lets Minnesota secure their guy early and focus their attention on other needs come the opening of the UFA period. Gives the Habs an exclusive window to talk to Moulson and see if he's a fit for their top 6.
2. Plekanec. Chicago seems like an obvious fit....could we get Hjalmarsson out of them? They've also got a number of young forwards like Jeremy Morin? Ryan Hartman? Stephen Johns? Draft picks?
UFA Period:
Some potential targets....
1. Paul Stastny - likely wont hit the market, but he would be an upgrade on Plekanec on all fronts. Downside is that it further delays moving Galchenyuk to C. Would cost BIG bucks.
2. Milan Michalek - would be a plan B or C if we can't re-sign Vanek or a guy like Moulson. But he's a big body and was moving alot better in the 2nd half of last season. I think he could end up being an under the radar pickup for a team this summer.
3. Brian Boyle - would be a big upgrade as 4th line C. Good friends with Prust. BIG size, great on the PK and on draws, not particularly tough. Will probably get more than he's worth as a UFA, but he would still be an upgrade.
4. Jay McClement - nothing sexy, but another upgrade over what we've got as a 4th line C.
Just spit balling here but how does this look?
1. Vanek for Moulson (sign Moulson) 2. Plekanec for Hjalmarsson 3. Let Markov walk 4. Sign Boyle and Michalek as UFAs
CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER CapGeek Armchair GM Roster FORWARDS Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / Rene Bourque ($3.333m) Matt Moulson ($5.000m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($0.925m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.685m) Milan Michalek ($4.000m) / Lars Eller ($2.500m) / Michael Bournival ($0.660m) Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Brian Boyle ($2.250m) / Dale Weise ($0.788m) Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Daniel Briere ($4.000m) / DEFENSEMEN Niklas Hjalmarsson ($4.100m) / P.K. Subban ($8.000m) Alexei Emelin ($4.100m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m) Nathan Beaulieu ($0.925m) / Mike Weaver ($1.300m) Jarred Tinordi ($0.870m) / GOALTENDERS Carey Price ($6.500m) Dustin Tokarski ($0.563m) BUYOUTS Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m) Scott Gomez ($0.000m) BURIED Peter Budaj ($0.475m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (estimations for 2014-15) SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,223,333; BONUSES: $3,257,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,876,667
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 2, 2014 8:57:35 GMT -5
While that line-up above is ok, firstly it would be another struggle to make the playoffs and secondly once we were there, it is not a line-up built for success. Good work, though Christrpn, to lay it out that way. I think Berg is going to try and sign Weaver, so his cap hit will be higher than any of our young dmen shown. With potential injuries, I don't think you want to go into the year with fewer than 5 veteran defensemen. The 4 'rookies' can be the depth and as they develop, can form a core, giving Berg the potential to trade one of the vets. So I don't expect a lot of changes by training camp, but after the next trading deadline, we may see some different players in that line-up. It seems, though, that to take that next step, some CAP space needs to be opened and the obvious moveable candidate is Pleks. High salary, questionable playoff abilities (even if he works hard), and more replaceable than any other position. Centres we have available are DD, Eller, Galchy, White and Bournival (who was always a centre until the NHL). Briere is still there as well. We are deeper at centre and defense than anywhere else and the pieces available which may have some value (Pleks and Gorges) are both at those positions. The hard part is that both have been Habs for a long time and there's an emotional attachment to them. From a risk/reward and replacement standpoint, though, they are our best bets for improvement. I said after last summer that I felt we had to wait until this past trade deadline to really see what Bergevin's plan was for the team. And while he left it to the very last second and got very lucky in the process, it nonetheless worked out for him and he went into the playoffs with the team he wanted. And it was very successful. So I will give him until next year's trade deadline to see what his real plan is for next year too. Which means I wouldn't expect too much come the draft or July 1st, though I reserve the right to be wrong (as if I needed the right!). Having said that I really don't think Plekanec is the answer as anybody's trade bait. He had 43 points last year, and his point totals have been slowly declining every year, the shortened lock-out season notwithstanding. He's small, not very physical, and not a leader. Nine years with the same team and he doesn't even wear an 'A'? He's not very good in the playoffs, and while he is a good defensive player, he's not very good on faceoffs. He's good on the penalty kill but he is hardly what I would call elite. Overall his numbers are rather comparable to Antoine Vermette's, and I don't think teams will be lining up to offer the moon for Vermette either. I wouldn't trade Pacioretty either, as he's also what we've been looking for all these years. No, the guy I would be shopping would be Brendan Gallagher. Best mix of redundant player (small winger) and attractive trade bait. Every team in the league would want Gallagher, so he's the best chance we have at getting a very good return. I'm not saying we give him away, but a Gallagher and Beaulieu offer for Evander Kane would, I think, get some ears perked up in Winnipeg, as an example.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 2, 2014 9:04:38 GMT -5
I'm not saying we give him away, but a Gallagher and Beaulieu offer for Evander Kane would, I think, get some ears perked up in Winnipeg, as an example. With the emphasis Bergevin puts on character, i cannot for the life of me envision him trading Gallagher for Kane. Its a huge upgrade in skill set, but i just can't see him being a target.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 2, 2014 9:52:18 GMT -5
Although I agree with you BC about Plekanec, I do think his contract (2 years, $5 million per year) makes him an attractive pickup for a team looking to add quality and versatility at the centre position.
Plekanec for Scottie Upshall? Plekanec for Drew Stafford? I don't expect much back, but if we can get a solid winger who can score, then it frees up a move for Galchenyuk to centre.
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Post by blny on Jun 2, 2014 10:02:36 GMT -5
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 2, 2014 10:17:44 GMT -5
Can someone sum up the conference as I don't have access at work!
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Post by blny on Jun 2, 2014 10:28:04 GMT -5
I'll compile some of the tweets. Reporters tweeting real time as well as asking questions.
Broad strokes :
Both coaching staffs in MOntreal and Hamilton will be back.
Budaj is a pro, and the whole club loves having him.
Won't discuss contract negotiations with RFAs and UFAs. Non-committal about it.
He has his ideas for summer, but intends to sit with hockey staff before making moves.
He was grilled hard on Weise. Claims that Weise passed the existing protocol tests, and that symptoms didn't appear till next day. He thought that the protocols in place could perhaps be worked on, but that's something to discuss at a league level.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 2, 2014 10:30:14 GMT -5
Paraphrased….
Pat Hickey: At the golf tournament (beginning of the year) you said you didn't think you were real close…..what do you think now, after these playoffs?
Bergevin: We're not a mature team. We have young veterans, I call them. I look around the league and I see other teams that are more mature. You can count on them always being in the playoffs. We're getting better, but we're not there yet. Next year, our goal as always will be to make the playoffs and we go from there. You never know what can happen…look at this year.
Non-committal re: any moves to be made. Haven't even discussed them internally yet.
Q. What decisions are you making for the defense?
A. It's all about the young players coming in….these decisions have to be made soon, but not today.
Q. Do you need veteran depth on D?
A. You don't want a young kid playing once every 2 weeks….it doesn't help him. They (Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn) will make the decision for us….their play will show us if they're ready or not.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 2, 2014 10:38:00 GMT -5
Bergevin: Gio is a great leader for this team. The guys respect him. We have a lot of good leadership…..Plekanec is quiet, but a leader by how he competes, Josh Gorges, Carey, PK, Patch…..taking leadership roles. Everything with PK has matured. A big part of this team moving forward.
(Duh…..)
Again….non-committal.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 2, 2014 10:41:02 GMT -5
I'll compile some of the tweets. Reporters tweeting real time as well as asking questions. Broad strokes : Both coaching staffs in MOntreal and Hamilton will be back. Budaj is a pro, and the whole club loves having him. Won't discuss contract negotiations with RFAs and UFAs. Non-committal about it. He has his ideas for summer, but intends to sit with hockey staff before making moves. He was grilled hard on Weise. Claims that Weise passed the existing protocol tests, and that symptoms didn't appear till next day. He thought that the protocols in place could perhaps be worked on, but that's something to discuss at a league level. Crap. Was hoping hamiltion got flushed. The rest he is pretty vague on. How can our young defence let their play decide if they stay if the coach doesn't put them in?
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Post by blny on Jun 2, 2014 10:51:24 GMT -5
He doesn't think team embellishes. Regarding call on Plekanec, he said only Pleky knows if he did it on purpose. He felt it was a flinch, the result of a stick getting up near his face.
Feels the room has good leaders, even if some are quiet types (Pleks, Gorges, Gionta). Patches, Subban and Price are taking on the leadership role as well.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 2, 2014 11:00:09 GMT -5
I'll compile some of the tweets. Reporters tweeting real time as well as asking questions. Broad strokes : Both coaching staffs in MOntreal and Hamilton will be back. Budaj is a pro, and the whole club loves having him. Won't discuss contract negotiations with RFAs and UFAs. Non-committal about it. He has his ideas for summer, but intends to sit with hockey staff before making moves. He was grilled hard on Weise. Claims that Weise passed the existing protocol tests, and that symptoms didn't appear till next day. He thought that the protocols in place could perhaps be worked on, but that's something to discuss at a league level. Crap. Was hoping hamiltion got flushed. The rest he is pretty vague on. How can our young defence let their play decide if they stay if the coach doesn't put them in? A cut and paste from TSN: Bergevin was also satisfied this season with the development of young blueliners Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi and Greg Pateryn, the first two playing short stints with the NHL club.
"I think the day they become everyday players with the Canadiens will be sooner rather than later," he said. "Do I want them to play in NHL next season - yes. "I want some internal competition at camp (next season)." I had a concern about Greg Pateryn until I read this. Pateryn had 15 goals in Hamilton this year. Cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 11:15:16 GMT -5
He says he wants to bring Gionta back. Eh.....
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Post by frozone on Jun 2, 2014 12:25:10 GMT -5
He says he wants to bring Gionta back. Eh..... I'm ok with Gionta coming back, but not in an offensive role. He's great on the PK and the team seems to do well under his leadership. Markov and Plekanec should be back too imo, but in lesser roles and playing fewer minutes. They both seem so valuable up to the mid season point but then they have nothing left in the tank to finish the year. Remember a year ago, Price was labeled a guaranteed playoff liability, but then our GM hired Waite which put Price in a position to succeed. Similar thing needs to be done for Markov and Pleks: put them in a position to succeed by reducing their minutes. More than anything, I think we need a speed upgrade on D. With Markov, Gorges, Weaver, Murray, we probably had the slowest D in the playoffs. I would love to have Weaver back, but I just don't think we can afford to have such slow pairings.
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Post by blny on Jun 2, 2014 13:16:34 GMT -5
I don't recall a definitive statement about Gionta. He respected his leadership and experience, said 'we'll see' more or less, but I don't remember much more than that. In the same breath, he was talking about the younger guys taking on leadership roles and to me that implied a changing of the guard.
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Post by Polarice on Jun 2, 2014 13:46:19 GMT -5
I don't recall a definitive statement about Gionta. He respected his leadership and experience, said 'we'll see' more or less, but I don't remember much more than that. In the same breath, he was talking about the younger guys taking on leadership roles and to me that implied a changing of the guard. Agreed....I'm sure he is seeing the same things we all are.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 2, 2014 14:05:17 GMT -5
I don't recall a definitive statement about Gionta. He respected his leadership and experience, said 'we'll see' more or less, but I don't remember much more than that. In the same breath, he was talking about the younger guys taking on leadership roles and to me that implied a changing of the guard. I was wondering if I had missed a post somewhere ... Gionta is one of several smaller players on the roster ... I just can't see Berg going forward with as many small forwards as he has ... Briere, DD, Plekanec and Gallagher are all under contract ... Gionta is well-respected by his teammates and is our captain ... I suspect Cube might not be in the plans but I really don't know for sure ... Berg wants to move Galchenyuk to centre and as Chris Nilan said earlier, "we'll be stuck with (the decision)" ... if I were to say there's an odd man out it might be Pleks ... Cheers.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 2, 2014 14:24:07 GMT -5
Very conservative comments from Bergevin. He sounded like a guy that doesn't fully believe in this team yet. I was struck by the comment that his first goal for next year is to "make the playoffs and see what happens". You don't hear Peter Chiarelli talking like that. Even Pierre Gauthier said that the goal is to be in the top 4 of the conference. Berg didn't say that and wouldn't even admit to a time frame around when he expects us to be a contender. Whatever. I don't generally expect him to say much of anything at these wrap-up press conferences, but I did expect him to be a little more bold in raising the bar and that just making the playoffs, while necessary, is simply not enough of a goal. The goal is to be among the leaders, the true contenders. He doesn't feel we are there and I fear he doesn't have a real sense of urgency to get there ASAP.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 19:01:49 GMT -5
To be fair, BH, Bergevin expects teams like Tampa, Ottawa, and Toronto to be better in our division next year and that the playoffs are no guarantee. I don't think he was necessarily setting the bar low.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jun 2, 2014 20:13:05 GMT -5
Very conservative comments from Bergevin. He sounded like a guy that doesn't fully believe in this team yet. I was struck by the comment that his first goal for next year is to "make the playoffs and see what happens". You don't hear Peter Chiarelli talking like that. Even Pierre Gauthier said that the goal is to be in the top 4 of the conference. Berg didn't say that and wouldn't even admit to a time frame around when he expects us to be a contender. Whatever. I don't generally expect him to say much of anything at these wrap-up press conferences, but I did expect him to be a little more bold in raising the bar and that just making the playoffs, while necessary, is simply not enough of a goal. The goal is to be among the leaders, the true contenders. He doesn't feel we are there and I fear he doesn't have a real sense of urgency to get there ASAP. Bergevin is nothing if not conservative. But he's also correct. We are a good team that can compete for a playoff spot and potentially win a round or two. We are not yet in the class of those upper echelon teams that are near guarantees to make the playoffs and win at least a round. Personally i think that the target to really contend is 2015-16. Galchenyuk will hopefully be our #1 impact C at that point, guys like Beaulieu and Tinordi will be good regular NHL d-men, we will be rid of Briere are some of the deadweight that the team will hopefully shed this summer and the other core guys....Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Eller, Gallagher...will only be better.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 2, 2014 21:03:39 GMT -5
To be fair, BH, Bergevin expects teams like Tampa, Ottawa, and Toronto to be better in our division next year and that the playoffs are no guarantee. I don't think he was necessarily setting the bar low. I'm interested in seeing if Ottawa moves Jason Spezza on draft day ... I can't see Ottawa improving to the point where they'd be a threat outside the division ... Tampa will be better if they can re-sign Ryan Callahan ... Toronto is home to Mike Komisarek Dion Phaneuf ... I don't blame Bergevin saying what he did, either ... he's not taking any of his divisional rivals for granted ... like his comments regarding Tinordi, Beaulieu and Pateryn ... how many teams can boast these three kids of that caliber ready for the show ... #thanksgaineygauthierCheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 2, 2014 21:30:27 GMT -5
He says he wants to bring Gionta back. Eh..... I'm ok with Gionta coming back, but not in an offensive role. He's great on the PK and the team seems to do well under his leadership. Markov and Plekanec should be back too imo, but in lesser roles and playing fewer minutes. They both seem so valuable up to the mid season point but then they have nothing left in the tank to finish the year. Remember a year ago, Price was labeled a guaranteed playoff liability, but then our GM hired Waite which put Price in a position to succeed. Similar thing needs to be done for Markov and Pleks: put them in a position to succeed by reducing their minutes. More than anything, I think we need a speed upgrade on D. With Markov, Gorges, Weaver, Murray, we probably had the slowest D in the playoffs. I would love to have Weaver back, but I just don't think we can afford to have such slow pairings. Gionta was on a mission for much of the season ... he had a good playoff stretch and that continued into the post season ... while he didn't score a bundle, the Habs were tied for fourth in average goals-per-game (3.00) in the playoffs (NHL.com)... the offset to his lead-from-the-front style is that he's one of several smaller forwards on the team ... if Berg wants to retain Gionta, great, but at who's expense ... Cheers.
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