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Post by sergejean on Jun 2, 2014 22:32:35 GMT -5
Well, I am certainly happy MB is not wearing rose colored glasses. As fun as the ride was this season, we didn't become one of the top dog yet. Teams like Chicago, LA, Boston and to a lesser extent San Jose, St-Louis and Pittsburgh can realistically expect to make the playoffs and hope to compete for the Stanley Cup. The Habs fall under the next group of teams that while strong enough to make it to the show, lack just a little something to make them a true contender.
I see 2014 as a transition year. Time for Galchenyuk to play center on one of the top two lines and to bring up some of the young defensemen. A veteran like Gionta could still be useful but on a third line and with a good pay cut. The idea is to slowly hand the team over to our younger core of Subban, Patches, Gally and Galchy.
As for the UFA market, it may be thin this year but that's the same reality for the other teams hoping to progress. As such, a team needing a solid 2nd/3rd center to take on the next step could be interested in trading from a position of strenght for a guy like Plekanec regardless of his age/limitation. Win-win trades can be made as an alternative to overpaying a free agent that may not fit all that well on the team.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 2, 2014 22:57:52 GMT -5
Unless my reading glasses got foggy, 1 goal is not much "leadership". Nor is hoping and praying.
I'm not interested in giving a spot to Gionta. If he is not scoring, he certainly is not crushing anyone and his usefullness will certainly decline.
We need his money better spent on younger, faster, bigger, stronger, more productive players.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 2, 2014 23:02:06 GMT -5
Well, I am certainly happy MB is not wearing rose colored glasses. As fun as the ride was this season, we didn't become one of the top dog yet. Teams like Chicago, LA, Boston and to a lesser extent San Jose, St-Louis and Pittsburgh can realistically expect to make the playoffs and hope to compete for the Stanley Cup. The Habs fall under the next group of teams that while strong enough to make it to the show, lack just a little something to make them a true contender. I see 2014 as a transition year. Time for Galchenyuk to play center on one of the top two lines and to bring up some of the young defensemen. A veteran like Gionta could still be useful but on a third line and with a good pay cut. The idea is to slowly hand the team over to our younger core of Subban, Patches, Gally and Galchy. As for the UFA market, it may be thin this year but that's the same reality for the other teams hoping to progress. As such, a team needing a solid 2nd/3rd center to take on the next step could be interested in trading from a position of strenght for a guy like Plekanec regardless of his age/limitation. Win-win trades can be made as an alternative to overpaying a free agent that may not fit all that well on the team. The market may be thin, but there are plenty of mid top 6 and usefull players. Cammarelli is better then Gionta. So are a few others. The leadership of this team is now in the hands of PK, Price and the Gals.
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Post by Douper on Jun 3, 2014 7:27:52 GMT -5
I think Vanish and Markov have to be resigned if we want to continue our forward momentum. I believe we are stuck with Briere, Moen, Gorges so we need to get better on the top 6. It's Galchenyuk's time at Centre. Go get Saad and give the young Defense the chance to develop.
Vanek - DD - Pacioretty Galagher - Galchenyuk - Saad Bourque - Eller - Weise Bournival - Prust/White - Tarnasky/Briere/Moen
PK - Tinordi Markov - Emelin Beaulieu - Gorges Pateryn
Price Budaj/Takarski
Pleky to Chicago, relieve some of the defensive responsibilities on Toews. Their Wing depth is great also.
Also Del a Rose and Andrighetto should deserve a long look at camp.
I wish MB would look at MT and say "We are going with a young Defense, make them play all situations. You're getting a new contract and by the end of it these guys need to be contributors. "
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Post by blny on Jun 3, 2014 7:47:15 GMT -5
I just can't justify Gionta. Yah, he managed 18g and 40p during the season. Respectable. But, he was too much of a non-factor for me in the playoffs, and I don't think he contributed anything on the PK that couldn't be found with some of the people we already have, or a bigger cheaper UFA option. He's not as fleet of foot as he was either. Time to move on.
Saad would be nice, but at 21, decent size, and just coming into his own I don't think the Hawks are going to be too keen to give up on him.
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Post by madhabber on Jun 3, 2014 9:09:21 GMT -5
I don't see Saad as being available either. But we do need wingers.
How about Chiasson in Dallas. The Stars could use a #2 center behind Seguin. Their offense is Benn and Seguin. Another playmaker center might get their other wingers on the board a little more often. And we'd get that big winger who may be able to put a little more points playing with a playmaker in Galchenyuk. He's got size. I'm not that familiar with how much he uses it, but he did get 35 points this past year with Cody Eakin as a center. Another 35 point guy. If it ain't enough either way, it can be tweaked with draft picks or prospects.
What I'd really like from them is Brenden Dillon but I doubt he's available.
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Post by blny on Jun 3, 2014 9:45:44 GMT -5
I don't see Saad as being available either. But we do need wingers. How about Chiasson in Dallas. The Stars could use a #2 center behind Seguin. Their offense is Benn and Seguin. Another playmaker center might get their other wingers on the board a little more often. And we'd get that big winger who may be able to put a little more points playing with a playmaker in Galchenyuk. He's got size. I'm not that familiar with how much he uses it, but he did get 35 points this past year with Cody Eakin as a center. Another 35 point guy. If it ain't enough either way, it can be tweaked with draft picks or prospects. What I'd really like from them is Brenden Dillon but I doubt he's available. Chiasson could be interesting. Can he play both sides? Stars list him as a RW. The Stars have publicly said that they will seek a #2 center. I mentioned elsewhere here that they could be a good trade partner for the Canadiens, if they looked to move Plekanec out. Bergevin knows the West very well too. The Stars offense may presently be dominated by Seguin and Benn, but Nichushkin looks very promising. A good two-way center that can cover for him and make plays could be a strong fit.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 9:49:54 GMT -5
Unless my reading glasses got foggy, 1 goal is not much "leadership". Nor is hoping and praying. I'm not interested in giving a spot to Gionta. If he is not scoring, he certainly is not crushing anyone and his usefullness will certainly decline. We need his money better spent on younger, faster, bigger, stronger, more productive players. Gionta definitely lost a step or two. When he was first brought in, he was an absolute pain for opposing defensemen to contain. Now we see Gallagher doing the exact same thing, albeit more effectively. Gionta seems to be a heart and soul guy that the players like, but he's having difficulty keeping up with some of the younger guys on the team.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 3, 2014 10:21:21 GMT -5
Unless my reading glasses got foggy, 1 goal is not much "leadership". Nor is hoping and praying. Depends on your definition of leadership, though, HA ... leadership isn't just about scoring goals, mate ... you know, yourself, but I never really supported the organization making Gionta our captain ... however, that changed after hearing Bergevin's endorsement of Gionta and what he provides to the club ... True enough ... don't know if Gionta is even coming back, HA ... I suspect he'd like to ... #stilltoomanysmallguys Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jun 3, 2014 10:32:13 GMT -5
Gio is on record saying he and his family love Montreal - that from the Saturday press day. I don't think it's just words either. He and his family have made Montreal home over the last 5 years.
Keep in mind, the org may have named Gio captain, but he wouldn't have lasted as so if not for the full support of his team mates.
It's time though. Time to move on. Time to have the room pick a new captain.
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 4, 2014 7:11:46 GMT -5
Along with bringing back Vanek and Gionta (at reasonable prices of course) here is what I would think of doing with the forwards:
Obviously George Parros is gone. Too bad, so sad, time to hang them up George. A much longer and better career than anybody every expected from you, now it's time for you to pimp those Violent Gentlemen sweatshirts full-time. Ride off into the sunset while you still have most of your brain functioning properly.
Briere, if he can be traded, should be traded. He's got some sort of playoff magic thing going, but still.
Plekanec comes back, simply because I don't think there is much of a market for him. He's still a very useful player of course, and he's not going to hurt your team by being there, so there is no "addition-by-subtraction" to be had here. It complicates Michel Therrien's life a little bit, trying to figure out how to get everybody on the ice in their proper positions, but that's why coaches get the big bucks. Too much depth is better than not enough. If he can be traded for a good return, then do it. But I just don't see the good return being there. He's small, has mediocre offensive production, is mediocre on faceoffs, is not a great playoff player and at best has "quiet" leadership. Even his advanced stats are rather mediocre for those who keep pimping him as some sort of elite defensive player. I just don't see teams lining up to get him. At the end of the day he's a small center making $5 million who had 43 points last year.
Re-sign Weise and White and Eller of course. Some people might want to get rid of White, and I don't know what the organization's plans are for him, but I wouldn't read too much into him not playing this spring. We just had a lot of depth. I don't think it was a reflection of any dissatisfaction with White.
Shop, very carefully, Brendan Gallagher. We want to get bigger up front, and Gallagher represents our best trade bait. I love Brendan Gallagher. I really do. But… he's small, he's not very fast, his passing is kind of bad, he doesn't have a great shot, and I question his overall hockey sense. He survives purely on blood and guts, and he is GREAT at that. He has one play - go to the net. And he's GREAT at that too. I expect him to have a long, and very good career in the NHL, probably a routine 20-25 goal scorer that everybody hates to play against. But you gotta give to get. Beaulieu and Gallagher on the table together could get you a very nice return, if you ask me.
So hypothetically:
Vanek - Desharnais - Pacioretty: Three players capable of putting up 60+ points. That's a legitimate #1 line.
Eller - Galchenyuk - <Perron>: Time to let Galchenyuk fly. Eller is the weak link here, as he is a much better center than winger, but no team is perfect. I've added David Perron here, but it could be Evander Kane, Chris Stewart or somebody like that.
Bournival - Plekanec -Gionta: A classic defensive line that still has some offensive bite to it. Good penalty killers.
Weise - White - Prust: A more-than-capable fourth line.
Bourque, Moen: Solid depth. Bourque might be the 2nd line answer at wing, but I don't want to be sucked in by the tease. If he is the answer, if he has rediscovered his 25 goal touch, then Eller drops down to the third line with Plekanec and Gionta, and Bournival moves to the fourth line rotation.
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 4, 2014 7:43:37 GMT -5
On defence I re-sign Markov and Weaver for sure. Term to be discussed, but I think they both have to come back.
Shop (carefully) Beaulieu. I'm gambling that I can get a second line winger with size for him and that Magnus Nygren can replace him on the depth chart. My targets would be somebody like David Perron, or if you expand the deal, somebody like Evander Kane, or Chris Stewart, or somebody like that. I want a 25 goal, 50+ point guy with some size. Doesn't have to be a masher or a brawler, but somebody who isn't going to be knocked over in the corner all the time.
Re-sign one of Bouillon or Murray. My preference is for Bouillon, but I would take Murray back too. But I'm telling both of them that they are only going to play 20-30 games next year, and that their primary role will be as player/coach/mentor. If not one of them, then somebody else willing to accept a 20-30 game role (and said somebody will almost certainly be of the Bouillon/Murray quality, so might as well go with the devil you know).
Figure out what to do with Greg Paetryn. Paetryn is interesting, because he seems to have been the best defenseman in Hamilton, has size that he uses, is a right-handed shot and at his age it's pretty close to make or break with him. But the organization doesn't seem to have any real plans for him, and he doesn't have the same trade value as the aforementioned Beaulieu. So I don't know where he fits in. I think he has to go through waivers next year, and I don't know if he makes it. If Nygren doesn't come over and/or stinks and goes back to Europe, AND if Beaulieu is traded, then Paetryn gets a spot. Otherwise he might be lost.
Gorges - Subban Markov - Emelin Tinordi - Weaver
(Bouillon/Murray, Nygren/Paetryn)
I have eight roster spots set aside for defensemen next year. I'm guessing I'll only need seven though, as almost certainly somebody will get hurt and start the year on IR. Tinordi should be an every-day regular, and Nygren/Paetryn rotate in and out with Weaver, who at his age could probably use some regular time off. With injuries and what have you I would expect Nygren/Paetryn to get about 45-50 games, which is quite acceptable for a rookie, if you ask me, especially if the bulk of those start to come down the stretch and into the playoffs.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 4, 2014 8:12:07 GMT -5
On defence I re-sign Markov and Weaver for sure. Term to be discussed, but I think they both have to come back. Shop (carefully) Beaulieu. I'm gambling that I can get a second line winger with size for him and that Magnus Nygren can replace him on the depth chart. My targets would be somebody like David Perron, or if you expand the deal, somebody like Evander Kane, or Chris Stewart, or somebody like that. I want a 25 goal, 50+ point guy with some size. Doesn't have to be a masher or a brawler, but somebody who isn't going to be knocked over in the corner all the time. Re-sign one of Bouillon or Murray. My preference is for Bouillon, but I would take Murray back too. But I'm telling both of them that they are only going to play 20-30 games next year, and that their primary role will be as player/coach/mentor. If not one of them, then somebody else willing to accept a 20-30 game role (and said somebody will almost certainly be of the Bouillon/Murray quality, so might as well go with the devil you know). Figure out what to do with Greg Paetryn. Paetryn is interesting, because he seems to have been the best defenseman in Hamilton, has size that he uses, is a right-handed shot and at his age it's pretty close to make or break with him. But the organization doesn't seem to have any real plans for him, and he doesn't have the same trade value as the aforementioned Beaulieu. So I don't know where he fits in. I think he has to go through waivers next year, and I don't know if he makes it. If Nygren doesn't come over and/or stinks and goes back to Europe, AND if Beaulieu is traded, then Paetryn gets a spot. Otherwise he might be lost. Gorges - Subban Markov - Emelin Tinordi - Weaver (Bouillon/Murray, Nygren/Paetryn) I have eight roster spots set aside for defensemen next year. I'm guessing I'll only need seven though, as almost certainly somebody will get hurt and start the year on IR. Tinordi should be an every-day regular, and Nygren/Paetryn rotate in and out with Weaver, who at his age could probably use some regular time off. With injuries and what have you I would expect Nygren/Paetryn to get about 45-50 games, which is quite acceptable for a rookie, if you ask me, especially if the bulk of those start to come down the stretch and into the playoffs. The problem is that MT will not hesitate to put in BooBoo or Murray any chance he gets. Both Murray and BooBoo have to be gone. MB has to force MTs hands to play the kids. Also regarding Pateryn, give the kid a real shot, he's got size, is not afraid to use it and is a right hand shot. I agree with keeping Weaver.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 4, 2014 8:53:47 GMT -5
I agree BC that it’s time to move Galchenyuk to center and live with the growing pains (because it sure won’t be perfect)… if we have too much centers available on the team, Therrien will NEVER persist in keeping him there. Since Galchenyuk is the only “center” that can have some success on the wing, the minute we’ll hit some adversity, Therrien will want to switch Eller/Galchenyuk. One of DD, Galchenyuk, Plekanec, Eller has to be moved IMO. I would not touch the DD/Pax combo as it is the only current real productive offensive duo of the team. Galchenyuk represent our best chance to finally get a true #1 center. That’s leaves Eller and Pleks. I agree with you as well that Plekanec probably doesn’t have much value… I highly doubt that he is seen outside of Montreal as the Selke level player some make him out to be…
…in a « sell high » mentality, I’d move Eller this summer. Right now he has that “playoff aura” around him, people feeling that he finally has arrived… I personally don’t think it’s the case at all, he just hit a certain hot streak (fueled a lot by Bourque’s surprising performance) like he always does. However he’s a tantalizing package and he’s coming out of a good playoff run, I think we should bank on that. Something build around a Eller/Myers deal would be really interesting.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 4, 2014 9:26:50 GMT -5
Plekanec or Eller should be moved along with either Beaulieu or Tinordi. I would try and see what some combination of those guys can achieve before I would move a piece like Gallagher.
Does Eller, Tinordi and a pick get back Tyler Myers? Or Erik Johnson?
Does Beaulieu and a pick get back David Perron?
Does Plekanec straight up for RJ Umberger make sense? Or Pleks and Tinordi for James Wisniewski?
Pacioretty/DD/Vanek Bourque/Galchenyuk/Gallagher Bournival/Plekanec/Perron Prust/Briere/Weise
Markov/Subban Gorges/Myers Emelin/Weaver
DONE.
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Post by jkr on Jun 4, 2014 10:34:34 GMT -5
Plekanec or Eller should be moved along with either Beaulieu or Tinordi. I would try and see what some combination of those guys can achieve before I would move a piece like Gallagher. Does Eller, Tinordi and a pick get back Tyler Myers? Or Erik Johnson? Does Beaulieu and a pick get back David Perron? Does Plekanec straight up for RJ Umberger make sense? Or Pleks and Tinordi for James Wisniewski? Pacioretty/DD/Vanek Bourque/Galchenyuk/Gallagher Bournival/Plekanec/Perron Prust/Briere/Weise Markov/Subban Gorges/Myers Emelin/Weaver DONE. Perron was traded for Paajarvi & a second. Paajarvi doesn't look like he's working out & that deal looks like a steal for the Oilers. But I see your point - he & Beaulieu look like similar type prospects with some NHL experience so teh actual deal & your proposal look similar.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 4, 2014 11:52:25 GMT -5
Along with bringing back Vanek and Gionta (at reasonable prices of course) here is what I would think of doing with the forwards: Obviously George Parros is gone. Too bad, so sad, time to hang them up George. A much longer and better career than anybody every expected from you, now it's time for you to pimp those Violent Gentlemen sweatshirts full-time. Ride off into the sunset while you still have most of your brain functioning properly. Briere, if he can be traded, should be traded. He's got some sort of playoff magic thing going, but still. Plekanec comes back, simply because I don't think there is much of a market for him. He's still a very useful player of course, and he's not going to hurt your team by being there, so there is no "addition-by-subtraction" to be had here. It complicates Michel Therrien's life a little bit, trying to figure out how to get everybody on the ice in their proper positions, but that's why coaches get the big bucks. Too much depth is better than not enough. If he can be traded for a good return, then do it. But I just don't see the good return being there. He's small, has mediocre offensive production, is mediocre on faceoffs, is not a great playoff player and at best has "quiet" leadership. Even his advanced stats are rather mediocre for those who keep pimping him as some sort of elite defensive player. I just don't see teams lining up to get him. At the end of the day he's a small center making $5 million who had 43 points last year. Re-sign Weise and White and Eller of course. Some people might want to get rid of White, and I don't know what the organization's plans are for him, but I wouldn't read too much into him not playing this spring. We just had a lot of depth. I don't think it was a reflection of any dissatisfaction with White. Shop, very carefully, Brendan Gallagher. We want to get bigger up front, and Gallagher represents our best trade bait. I love Brendan Gallagher. I really do. But… he's small, he's not very fast, his passing is kind of bad, he doesn't have a great shot, and I question his overall hockey sense. He survives purely on blood and guts, and he is GREAT at that. He has one play - go to the net. And he's GREAT at that too. I expect him to have a long, and very good career in the NHL, probably a routine 20-25 goal scorer that everybody hates to play against. But you gotta give to get. Beaulieu and Gallagher on the table together could get you a very nice return, if you ask me. So hypothetically: Vanek - Desharnais - Pacioretty: Three players capable of putting up 60+ points. That's a legitimate #1 line. Eller - Galchenyuk - <Perron>: Time to let Galchenyuk fly. Eller is the weak link here, as he is a much better center than winger, but no team is perfect. I've added David Perron here, but it could be Evander Kane, Chris Stewart or somebody like that. Bournival - Plekanec -Gionta: A classic defensive line that still has some offensive bite to it. Good penalty killers. Weise - White - Prust: A more-than-capable fourth line. Bourque, Moen: Solid depth. Bourque might be the 2nd line answer at wing, but I don't want to be sucked in by the tease. If he is the answer, if he has rediscovered his 25 goal touch, then Eller drops down to the third line with Plekanec and Gionta, and Bournival moves to the fourth line rotation. Trade Ghalleger? You are kidding? Right? RIGHT? You want to trade heart and soul for better flavours and hope? And you want Gionta back because it will make you what? Tougher to play against? Offensive powerhouse? His entire ONE goal in the playoffs? What exactly are you going to miss if the entire foundation of the exercise is to get better and win cups? Sentiment? The rest I will buy....if you sing Vanek for 6 million with no trade restrictions and get a replacement for Gionta. Given the low floor of Gionta's abilities, it's not hard. So far, as proud owner of the Habs, you are on notice as GM. Short leash et all.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 4, 2014 12:14:39 GMT -5
On defence I re-sign Markov and Weaver for sure. Term to be discussed, but I think they both have to come back. Shop (carefully) Beaulieu. I'm gambling that I can get a second line winger with size for him and that Magnus Nygren can replace him on the depth chart. My targets would be somebody like David Perron, or if you expand the deal, somebody like Evander Kane, or Chris Stewart, or somebody like that. I want a 25 goal, 50+ point guy with some size. Doesn't have to be a masher or a brawler, but somebody who isn't going to be knocked over in the corner all the time. Re-sign one of Bouillon or Murray. My preference is for Bouillon, but I would take Murray back too. But I'm telling both of them that they are only going to play 20-30 games next year, and that their primary role will be as player/coach/mentor. If not one of them, then somebody else willing to accept a 20-30 game role (and said somebody will almost certainly be of the Bouillon/Murray quality, so might as well go with the devil you know). Figure out what to do with Greg Paetryn. Paetryn is interesting, because he seems to have been the best defenseman in Hamilton, has size that he uses, is a right-handed shot and at his age it's pretty close to make or break with him. But the organization doesn't seem to have any real plans for him, and he doesn't have the same trade value as the aforementioned Beaulieu. So I don't know where he fits in. I think he has to go through waivers next year, and I don't know if he makes it. If Nygren doesn't come over and/or stinks and goes back to Europe, AND if Beaulieu is traded, then Paetryn gets a spot. Otherwise he might be lost. Gorges - Subban Markov - Emelin Tinordi - Weaver (Bouillon/Murray, Nygren/Paetryn) I have eight roster spots set aside for defensemen next year. I'm guessing I'll only need seven though, as almost certainly somebody will get hurt and start the year on IR. Tinordi should be an every-day regular, and Nygren/Paetryn rotate in and out with Weaver, who at his age could probably use some regular time off. With injuries and what have you I would expect Nygren/Paetryn to get about 45-50 games, which is quite acceptable for a rookie, if you ask me, especially if the bulk of those start to come down the stretch and into the playoffs. Wait, like the Popeil commercial, there's MORE? You want to trade Beau because he "may" get you a better forward, meanwhile you got what and who replacing Markov? Name me the player who is going to quarterback you second unit powerplay in a year or less? Or can provide a what may be above AHL pp if PK is injured. Sure, if Markov was 30 and there was life left in those knees, but there isn't and and age has this ugly habit of never stop moving. But there MORE...... PK ain't superman. He needs someone way better the Gorges on his side. by the end of the playoffs, he's more exhausted then me after one minute of sex and yet, where exactly are we going to get that help? Tinordi? Pateryn? We think they are ready, but I'm a bit concerned. Until they have twenty games of consistency under their belt, we are in deep need of a uber shut down defense'mean with decent speed complimenting PK. Weaver? Sure, sign him. Two years. No brainer. Even if Pateryn, Beau and Tinordi make it, I still want him there for back up. He is a WARRIOR......and I'm kind of fond of warriors. As for Booboo and Murray, no. NO. A real big NO. Murray was a gift to Boston until MThead eventual saw his mistake. He's slow and aside from size, bring nothing. Zero. Nada. Beau can skate circle around Murray, backwards, with Gallagher on his back.....and has far more offence then Booboo. Tinordi is just as tough as Murray and can actually skate above Murrays beer league. . Gorges - Subban - Tinordi - Weaver - Markov - Emelin - Pateryn - Beaulieu Youth and veteran mix that I can live with.
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Post by PTH on Jun 4, 2014 13:15:12 GMT -5
From what I've been able to get from La Presse, my feeling is that Bouillon and Murray are gone, Weaver is a possible, Gionta being kept is likely, and Markov is looking for a "long-term" deal, which usually means 3+ years. Tinordi, Beaulieu and Pateryn are definitely being discussed as fulltime NHLers next year.
====
Right now, I think this team needs to risk taking a small step back to take a bigger one going forward, ie, trade Plekanec.... and let Markov go if he wants more than 3 years at more than his current salary. Even then, I'm torn.
I love Markov, but he'll be a problem if he's making big money when his performance declines, and as long as he's there, Beaulieu won't have room to develop his offense. He needs to have a PP to run.
And I'd keep Vanek. I'd try to sell him a 4 year deal, the logic being he'd have another chance at a big contract without being over 35 at the end of this one. And on that kind of term, I'd throw whatever money it takes. (yeah, he said it's not about money. They all say that. It's a lie, and we all know it.)
About trading Plek.... I think we shouldn't expect too much.... I tried to find comparables, and the best I could find was Derek Roy, who didn't fetch a kings ransom by any means...
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Post by blny on Jun 4, 2014 13:18:49 GMT -5
If Markov wants more than 3 years, at any salary, I walk. If they need a bridge player, try Boyle. He's older, but still skates pretty well. Maybe a 1 or two year deal is up his alley.
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Post by del on Jun 4, 2014 15:56:04 GMT -5
I think any hint of Gionta returning smacks of Management (and fan) sentimentality.
Gainey brought him in for a purpose for the term of his contract and that was to be an offensive threat. That purpose has declined over the years and the contract is expired. The wisdom seems to be to sign him at a reduced rate (2 mil?) and place him on the 3rd line where the pressure to score and support the team is reduced, thus sheltering him to some extent. And also maintain his captaincy and leadership, I presume.
But why on earth consider keeping him when we can turn the page and make the team bigger with a replacement at no expense........Mike Blunden, who at 6'4" 214 can skate and check, everything you would want from a 3rd liner. It's not as if he is a complete rookie, since he does have some games under his belt and could possibly be trusted by Therrien - that's a stretch, I know....but...
It's time to make some moves and I think re-signing Gionta is a lateral move at best. Blunden himself might be just such a lateral move, but at least it's a "bigger" move and no more longer term than Gionta would be, before moving on again with a replacement.
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Post by PTH on Jun 4, 2014 16:19:07 GMT -5
One guy who's out of the picture: Joonas Naattinen just went back to Sweden. We didn't lose his rights, so who knows, but I really don't expect him to ever come back to this side of the Atlantic ocean, at least not to play hockey.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 4, 2014 16:39:22 GMT -5
One guy who's out of the picture: Joonas Naattinen just went back to Sweden. We didn't lose his rights, so who knows, but I really don't expect him to ever come back to this side of the Atlantic ocean, at least not to play hockey. I will miss his 1 minute and 45 seconds of NHL experience! Another guy who made a mistake in his debut game and never saw the ice again that entire game. Yeah, MT knows how to develop youngsters. He was a useful depth guy in Hamilton, but really was stuck on their 4th line for most of the season or else injured - which he was for a big chunk of his time as a Hab prospects in Hamilton. The good news the other way is that Jacob DLR will be playing in North America in either Montreal or Hamilton (the odds heavily favour the latter) next season, so good to get him acclimatized to the North American game.
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Post by PTH on Jun 4, 2014 17:50:15 GMT -5
Something interesting to read, a thread I started on Hockeysfuture: hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1684223It's about Plekanec's value... not as high as I hoped, but still nothing to sneeze at. It's basically a solid but non-blue chip prospect and a 2nd.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 5, 2014 0:07:43 GMT -5
Shop, very carefully, Brendan Gallagher. We want to get bigger up front, and Gallagher represents our best trade bait. I love Brendan Gallagher. I really do. But… he's small, he's not very fast, his passing is kind of bad, he doesn't have a great shot, and I question his overall hockey sense. Ok, now I know the puck's hit you in the head once too often in that pathetic rec league, you play in. He's one of a very few players I consider untouchable on the team. He's small but plays at 6' 6". I think you're underestimating his hockey sense too. This year, I thought his shot went south for some reason. It was better last year. But he'll get us 20-25 goals, 50 points and be the heart and soul of the offense for a decade. Why not trade PK, while you're at it? (just joking). I agree, though, we need another top 6 forward with size and skill (sure hope Delarose develops as fast a Chia pet).
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 5, 2014 0:15:31 GMT -5
Shop, very carefully, Brendan Gallagher. We want to get bigger up front, and Gallagher represents our best trade bait. I love Brendan Gallagher. I really do. But… he's small, he's not very fast, his passing is kind of bad, he doesn't have a great shot, and I question his overall hockey sense. Ok, now I know the puck's hit you in the head once too often in that pathetic rec league, you play in. He's one of a very few players I consider untouchable on the team. He's small but plays at 6' 6". I think you're underestimating his hockey sense too. This year, I thought his shot went south for some reason. It was better last year. But he'll get us 20-25 goals, 50 points and be the heart and soul of the offense for a decade. Why not trade PK, while you're at it? (just joking). I agree, though, we need another top 6 forward with size and skill (sure hope Delarose develops as fast a Chia pet). BGal is an untouchable! The impact he has on his team-mates is incalculable. He shows up every game and is an impact on more games than any other player except Carey, and maybe PK. And he's got his own hamburger. Don't touch! ,
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Post by seventeen on Jun 5, 2014 0:28:26 GMT -5
PK ain't superman. He needs someone way better the Gorges on his side. by the end of the playoffs, he's more exhausted then me after one minute of sex and yet, where exactly are we going to get that help? Tinordi? Pateryn? We think they are ready, but I'm a bit concerned. Until they have twenty games of consistency under their belt, we are in deep need of a uber shut down defense'mean with decent speed complimenting PK. When I saw Tinordi play, I saw a lot of good things, intermingled with an occasional error. The fact the coach saw those errors as the end of civilization as we know it, hampered Jared's development. He can easily slot into the left side with Weaver. Solid vet, working with good skating, big dman with a great reach. If Markov is signed, I'd play him with Gorges on the right side. PK with Emelin and Weaver with Tinordi. Beaulieu has the incentive to bulk up to get into the line-up and Pateryn or Nygren are the depth. If Markov is not signed, Nygren, Beaulieu and Pateryn battle for that spot, unless Berg signs a vet (tough to do). Might be best to live with 20 games of development pains to gain long term success. One of those kids is going to pan out, I just don't know which. We will continue, though to have problems with development of our kids as long as MT is given full rein. He favours some over others, and it isn't related to performance, at least not from where I see it. I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not right there, in the dressing room, but that also gives MT some protection from criticism, as he can do what he wishes, without anyone being able to doubt him, lacking proof we have no chance of getting either. PTH, I dislike MT because I'm afraid he hasn't learned how to develop young players. Eller's had development problems, PK's had development issues, Tinordi, Beaulieu, all not as far along as we'd like. Galchy has been 'protected' beyond the point where he should have been. Are we really happy with Galchy's production to date? Especially given the obvious offensive skills he's shown. I'm not. Who has benefited? PIck any number of veterans, the most obvious examples being Bourque, Murray and Bouillon. Yeah, MT got us to the Eastern finals, but might we have gone further if Tinordi, Beaulieu and Galchenyuk were more fully developed? Unfortunately that's a question with no answer. I would have liked the option of trying it though.
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Post by PTH on Jun 5, 2014 1:31:35 GMT -5
PTH, I dislike MT because I'm afraid he hasn't learned how to develop young players. We used to say the same about Jacques Martin. Just about every coach doesn't play the kids as much as fans want them to, because for us, developing kids is the hope for a better future, and we read (and believe) the hype about them. Coaches need to win, and win now, so they'll go with whoever is most able to make that happen. It's up to the kids to be better than the vets.... and too often, they aren't. How many kids have we given up on because of stalled development, and bloomed elsewhere ? I'm not counting guys like McDonough who were traded as pure prospects. Ribeiro ? He'd made it well enough before he left, we knew what we were giving up. Latendresse ? He bounced around quite a bit before his concussions ended his career. Grabovski ? We had no room for him in the lineup, and it looks like he didn't fit in the dressing room (though, the problem was perhaps with the Kostitsyn's rather than with him....) The Kosty's ? Well, it looks like getting anything for them was a good move since they're long gone. We gave up on O'Byrne, but apparently with good reason, since he's now in Europe. Maybe Chipchura? It's not like we have tons of kids who didn't get ice time here that bloomed elsewhere... ---- And there's a consensus now that PK is a top-notch defenseman, that Galchenyuk could be a center soon and will become a force, Gallagher is a fixture... Beaulieu got the call during the playoffs, ahead of various veterans. Kids get ice time and develop, if they show that they deserve it. That's fine by me. I'm not saying I agree with all his decisions, but he does have a much better idea of the reality of the situation than we do...
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 5, 2014 2:56:25 GMT -5
Shop, very carefully, Brendan Gallagher. We want to get bigger up front, and Gallagher represents our best trade bait. I love Brendan Gallagher. I really do. But… he's small, he's not very fast, his passing is kind of bad, he doesn't have a great shot, and I question his overall hockey sensOk, now I know the puck's hit you in the head once too often in that pathetic rec league, you play in. He's one of a very few players I consider untouchable on the team. He's small but plays at 6' 6". I think you're underestimating his hockey sense too. This year, I thought his shot went south for some reason. It was better last year. But he'll get us 20-25 goals, 50 points and be the heart and soul of the offense for a decade. Why not trade PK, while you're at it? (just joking). I agree, though, we need another top 6 forward with size and skill (sure hope Delarose develops as fast a Chia pet). Oh please, he used up that too-many-pucks-in-the-head routine when he kept sneaking into the womans showers......and do NOT joke about PK, lest he ships him off and exhumes his perennial Norris candidate, Patrick Traverse. Ghallagher would fetch us a very nice return but we would cry for a decade. The last time I saw that kind of relentlessness was from some vertically challanged player called......Henri Richard. PK, Price and Gals are the face and future of the club. Untouchable.
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Post by Disp on Jun 5, 2014 4:10:56 GMT -5
PTH, I dislike MT because I'm afraid he hasn't learned how to develop young players. We used to say the same about Jacques Martin. Just about every coach doesn't play the kids as much as fans want them to, because for us, developing kids is the hope for a better future, and we read (and believe) the hype about them. Coaches need to win, and win now, so they'll go with whoever is most able to make that happen. It's up to the kids to be better than the vets.... and too often, they aren't. How many kids have we given up on because of stalled development, and bloomed elsewhere ? I'm not counting guys like McDonough who were traded as pure prospects. Ribeiro ? He'd made it well enough before he left, we knew what we were giving up. Latendresse ? He bounced around quite a bit before his concussions ended his career. Grabovski ? We had no room for him in the lineup, and it looks like he didn't fit in the dressing room (though, the problem was perhaps with the Kostitsyn's rather than with him....) The Kosty's ? Well, it looks like getting anything for them was a good move since they're long gone. We gave up on O'Byrne, but apparently with good reason, since he's now in Europe. Maybe Chipchura? It's not like we have tons of kids who didn't get ice time here that bloomed elsewhere... ---- And there's a consensus now that PK is a top-notch defenseman, that Galchenyuk could be a center soon and will become a force, Gallagher is a fixture... Beaulieu got the call during the playoffs, ahead of various veterans. Kids get ice time and develop, if they show that they deserve it. That's fine by me. I'm not saying I agree with all his decisions, but he does have a much better idea of the reality of the situation than we do... PK was our youngest Norris winner ever, and BGal was a finalist for rookie of the year. AGal is looking more dangerous every time he plays. MT points this out and laughs maniacally at "not being able to develop kids".
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