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Post by habernac on Jun 23, 2014 12:54:20 GMT -5
Marc Antoine Godin @magodin 3-year deal for Andrei Markov. I hear same money (5,75 M) than his previous two deals.
Renaud Lavoie @renlavoietva Andrei Markov: 3 ans / 17 250 000$ total. #canadiens #tvasports
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2014 12:59:40 GMT -5
Beat me to it. Lu reporting 3 years. Searching for hit. 3 years bugs me. With Markov, Gorges, and Emelin, you're always going to have one defender playing his off side too. EDIT: Capgeek is reporting $5.75 million per year in hit and actual salary.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 23, 2014 13:19:33 GMT -5
There was a report on here a few weeks ago this was going to happen. Kind of surprised at time as Habs didn't want to go 3 years. They must have caved in.
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2014 13:32:25 GMT -5
There was a report on here a few weeks ago this was going to happen. Kind of surprised at time as Habs didn't want to go 3 years. They must have caved in. Agreed. The fact Andrei will be making the same he has for his last 2 contracts, and the cap going up, can be considered something of a discount. It's not as much as I'd have like though. Still not pleased with 3 years. I also think there's too many LHD in the top 4. Perhaps Berg has plans to fix it ...
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Post by HabSolute on Jun 23, 2014 13:32:40 GMT -5
This is a good signing in my opinion.
Yes, two years would have been better, but like BC said, let's worry about year 3 when we get there. Until then, this guy is a big part of this team's success, he will be a great mentor for the kids coming up. This would have created a giant hole in our D which would have cost the same to fill. Not to mention how much he can help with Emelin ongoing transition.
Markov has given his career to Montreal (one of very few these days). If a third year to his contract is what it takes to have him finish here, then so be it. Molson can always buy him out if it's really a disaster.
I am very happy.
Good move
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2014 14:10:22 GMT -5
No doubt that there's no one in the system that is ready. No doubt that a replacement from outside the organization would cost as much.
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Post by CentreHice on Jun 23, 2014 14:43:29 GMT -5
I'm glad Markov's back. If anybody has paid his dues, battled through injury, it's him. He didn't ask for the moon. Nice to see him likely retire as a career Hab.
And finally, he's becoming surrounded with some top-end talent. It's about time.
When he and Koivu were in their primes, they were also our two top skaters as #1 D and #1 C.….(yes, Kovalev was a magician….but only when he felt like it)….and were not built around properly. A legion of teams are built that way…and they don't win Cups. Not even close. Like the Leafs.
The Habs of the glory days had 3 Markovs, and 8 Koivus. Easier to maintain, once you're on that roll, perhaps…but what a job Sam Pollock did.
Serge Savard, for all the negative things I've read about his tenure as GM, had competitive teams for the most part….and won 2 Cups to boot. Hopefully, we're finally back to those days of the mid-80s to early 90s--always in the mix.
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2014 14:48:50 GMT -5
I'm glad Markov's back. If anybody has paid his dues, battled through injury, it's him. He didn't ask for the moon. Nice to see him likely retire as a career Hab. And finally, he's becoming surrounded with some top-end talent. It's about time. When he and Koivu were in their primes, they were also our two top skaters as #1 D and #1 C.….(yes, Kovalev was a magician….but only when he felt like it)….and were not built around properly. A legion of teams are built that way…and they don't win Cups. Not even close. Like the Leafs. The Habs of the glory days had 3 Markovs, and 8 Koivus. Easier to maintain, once you're on that roll, perhaps…but what a job Sam Pollock did. Serge Savard, for all the negative things I've read about his tenure as GM, had competitive teams for the most part….and won 2 Cups to boot. Hopefully, we're finally back to those days of the mid-80s to early 90s--always in the mix. Savard's undoing (surprisingly) was drafting. As much success as he had in the 80s, from 1989 through the end of his tenure (and beyond) the draft record was abysmal. I think he and Demers were otherwise dumped without strong reason.
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Post by duster on Jun 23, 2014 16:12:19 GMT -5
I think the team didn't have much of a choice. They had no real assets to trade for a no2 defenseman and the UFA market doesn't have much to offer this year except...Markov. They had to agree to three years or he was going to get that somewhere else for sure (Washington?). He has a limited NTC so the risk is not all Bergevin's.
Imo, Gorges now becomes expendable as does one of the centres not named Galchenyuk.
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2014 16:20:24 GMT -5
I think the team didn't have much of a choice. They had no real assets to trade for a no2 defenseman and the UFA market doesn't have much to offer this year except...Markov. They had to agree to three years or he was going to get that somewhere else for sure (Washington?). He has a limited NTC so the risk is not all Bergevin's. Imo, Gorges now becomes expendable as does one of the centres not named Galchenyuk. There are definitely question marks for me with Gorges. If they could move him in a deal that nets a RHD, you can toy with Emelin and Subban, Markov and RHD.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 23, 2014 16:55:38 GMT -5
I don't care about the money, I care that because he is here, MThead will always choose him over Beau. Basically, Beau has to play like a star to push off Markov. Sounds "great" but in reality, it will mean every mistake Beau makes nets him free coffee and paper for airplanes from the press box.....
Good that he signed, not good because he is in the way.
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2014 16:58:43 GMT -5
I don't think Markov inhibits Beaulieu at all in at least the first year of the deal. Nathan likely did enough in his playoff stint to have the inside track for a spot in the third pairing. He's got a ways to go before he's logging 20 minutes a night. Let's see where Beaulieu is next summer before we say Markov is hindering him.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 23, 2014 17:46:17 GMT -5
Does one really believe that Beau, Tinordi and Pateryn are going to put a six million dollar player in the pressbox? Particularly one that can play top 6?
Unfortunately, we are here in unproven rookie grounds because Booboo was signed last year and was the go to over the kids. And that was for Booboo, Markov wont be sitting for anyone, not unless he stinks up the joint.
Look at MTheads past and how long he hung on to vets to see the future.....
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2014 17:58:41 GMT -5
We're better with him than without him ... I don't like the term but I'm not the guy signing him ...
Cheers.
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Jun 23, 2014 18:13:03 GMT -5
Does one really believe that Beau, Tinordi and Pateryn are going to put a six million dollar player in the pressbox? Particularly one that can play top 6? Unfortunately, we are here in unproven rookie grounds because Booboo was signed last year and was the go to over the kids. And that was for Booboo, Markov wont be sitting for anyone, not unless he stinks up the joint. Look at MTheads past and how long he hung on to vets to see the future..... In a different thread didn't you say the team needs the guys with heart like the Henri Richard's which is exactly what Markov is, a true Hab that doesnt take a night off and wants to be in Motreal along with the expectations and media. Maybe if he was from Sherbrooke he would have more resect? Sure he is aging and slowing down but he is still very effective on the ice, plays 20 minutes and is a leader on the ice. PK plays his best hockey when they are paired together and maybe he can do the same with one of the young defenseman coming up. I also think that MThead as you like to wrongly call him, played the kids in the playoffs when the game counted the most so that is not a credible argument anymore.
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Post by HFTO on Jun 23, 2014 18:13:25 GMT -5
Habs made a decision not to move any of their vet UFA's and complicated thing by going on a deep run...this team was caught in transition and are no better off now... if they sign Gionta the the situation will be even worse.
The up and coming D corp is without any experience so by not dealing Msrkov they were caught in trying too replace his minutes....unless they can make a hockey deal to get a real top 6 or sign one of the few good UFA's this team may go backwards.....important week IMO to keep the train moving forward.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 23, 2014 18:13:29 GMT -5
Wonder why changed their minds...earlier reports had Habs not wanting to go 3 years? They find trade market dry acquiring a replacement for Markov? Maybe another trade coming...a Gorges or Elemin to move up in draft and sign a Niskanen or a cheaper defensive guy like Stoner? Gives them depth.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2014 18:14:49 GMT -5
... Markov wont be sitting for anyone, not unless he stinks up the joint. Josh Gorges had some horrible games ... four turnovers that led to at least one goal against the Senators and he didn't miss a shift ... I really doubt Markov will be sitting ... who is he, after all ... Subban? ... honestly, while I can't tell you what will happen next season, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Subban/Therrien sideshow continue with Subban finding the end of the bench for having water splashed on him ... Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jun 23, 2014 18:39:59 GMT -5
Habs made a decision not to move any of their vet UFA's and complicated thing by going on a deep run...this team was caught in transition and are no better off now... if they sign Gionta the the situation will be even worse. The up and coming D corp is without any experience so by not dealing Msrkov they were caught in trying too replace his minutes....unless they can make a hockey deal to get a real top 6 or sign one of the few good UFA's this team may go backwards.....important week IMO to keep the train moving forward. I don't think you can trade your way out of the playoffs. Sends a bad message to fans, and players. The shortened season would have been the ideal time to part with some vets, but they played well. I'm more fine with the notion of keeping Markov than I am Gionta. At least Markov is till playing at a high level. His 43 points this year was top 20 in the league, and he was a +12 too. Gionta continues to regress and his role diminishes more and more. It's hard to say whether they go backwards or not. The Bruins have some tough choices to make. They've got to part ways with some people because of their cap penalties. I think the Rangers over achieved. Boyle and Stralman look to test the UFA market and I think will get money thrown at them. The Pens are in disarray. Tampa will be decent, but unless they address issues on defense they won't get over the hump. Detroit is old. Toronto is Toronto. The Sens are looking to trade Spezza. Karlsson is a defensive liability, and what Anderson will they get? We got where we did without overachieving imo. I think we got there with some people underachieving.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 23, 2014 18:48:13 GMT -5
The question is, are we a better team with him in the lineup or not? I am sure someone can dig up the stats but I am pretty sure its a big yes, so the signing is a no brainer. There is nothing better on the market, maybe equivalent but better with the devil you know......Even with Markov, we need another top 4 defenceman to go with PK and Emelin (preferably a RD. Trade Gorges to the Oilers and break in Pateryn and Beaulieu with Weaver and then the following year have Tinordi replace Weaver. That's what the succession plan should be. I don't want to loose Pateryn to waivers next year so either package him Pleks and get a 2 nd line prospect or play him.
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Post by christrpn on Jun 23, 2014 19:31:23 GMT -5
Markov has a full NTC in his first year of the contract. The last two, it's a limited NTC. He picks 12 teams to which he'll accept a trade to. I would have preferred to negotiate the third year, I'll give it to you, but you get no NTC whatsoever, Two years and it's a limited NTC and one gets you a full NMC
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2014 19:33:40 GMT -5
The question is, are we a better team with him in the lineup or not? I am sure someone can dig up the stats but I am pretty sure its a big yes, so the signing is a no brainer. There is nothing better on the market, maybe equivalent but better with the devil you know......Even with Markov, we need another top 4 defenceman to go with PK and Emelin (preferably a RD. Trade Gorges to the Oilers and break in Pateryn and Beaulieu with Weaver and then the following year have Tinordi replace Weaver. That's what the succession plan should be. I don't want to loose Pateryn to waivers next year so either package him Pleks and get a 2 nd line prospect or play him. This is where I am with Pateryn ... however, we have three d-men who are ready for the NHL ... Tinordi, Beaulieu and Pateryn ... of those three I think the loser has been Tinordi ... we've seen Beaulieu a lot more in the NHL than both Tinordi and Pateryn ... Pateryn scored 15 goals in Hamilton this year and had the ice time to do it ... through no fault of his own, I don't think Tinordi has had the opportunities as the other two ... so who's out? ... I couldn't tell you one way or the other, but any defenceman who scores 15 goals at the AHL level, should be playing somewhere in the NHL ... just don't let him turn into another JP Cote ... Cheers.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 23, 2014 20:03:33 GMT -5
Subban Markov Emelin Weaver Gorges Beaulieu Tinordi Pateryn Murray Bouillon In that order. Gorges is expensive for a #5, Beaulieu and Tinordi will make it. Pateryn deserves a chance and Bouillon has reached retirement age with maybe a year left somewhere else. Assuming you keep a player in the AHL in case of injury callup (Pateryn) and Murray fills a specific role in certain situations, we have sufficient depth on defense if insufficient speed. I am more concerned replacing forwards Briere, Gionta, Vanek and Bourque. While anything will be an upgrade, we need more production from our forwards. Two Gals and Pacioretty are very good. Desharnais, Plekanec and Eller are ok but could be upgraded, after that it's filler. We have little in Hamilton and the kids in Jr are definitely not ready for prime time.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 23, 2014 20:06:27 GMT -5
Not a lot of love being shown for Tinordi on the board. I'm still not sure he isn't our best non regular dman. While there is a lot of sentiment to see Beaulieu playing in the top 6, I think that until he wins a few more puck battles, his play in his own end will overcome the benefits he brings to the offensive game. Tinordi gets from A to B well, and he's stronger than Beaulieu. Not quite as agile a skater and doesn't have as powerful a shot, but makes a decent first pass and is able to skate it out when required. I think he needs experience to work out a few clearing situations, which isn't forthcoming on in the pressbox, and then he's good to go. I'd sure hate to trade him.
I think Beaulieu can also be a regular and provide a different set of skills (one guy for the PP, one for the PK), but he lost too many one on one battle for me to feel he can be a regular.
PS. I think the Markov signing was required. You can't replace the 20 minutes a game he can give you. The cost is what it is. Let's hope by year 3 he's down to 15 minutes and a PP specialist.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 23, 2014 20:11:16 GMT -5
I also think that MThead as you like to wrongly call him, played the kids in the playoffs when the game counted the most so that is not a credible argument anymore. Tinordi didn't play at all. Beaulieu played some when Cube was falling apart and Murray was not a choice. Shortly, though, and partly because Beaulieu didn't have the strength needed for the NHL, Bouillon was back in. I think Cranky's argument still has a lot of validity.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 23, 2014 21:39:43 GMT -5
Does one really believe that Beau, Tinordi and Pateryn are going to put a six million dollar player in the pressbox? Particularly one that can play top 6? Unfortunately, we are here in unproven rookie grounds because Booboo was signed last year and was the go to over the kids. And that was for Booboo, Markov wont be sitting for anyone, not unless he stinks up the joint. Look at MTheads past and how long he hung on to vets to see the future..... In a different thread didn't you say the team needs the guys with heart like the Henri Richard's which is exactly what Markov is, a true Hab that doesnt take a night off and wants to be in Motreal along with the expectations and media. Maybe if he was from Sherbrooke he would have more resect? Sure he is aging and slowing down but he is still very effective on the ice, plays 20 minutes and is a leader on the ice. PK plays his best hockey when they are paired together and maybe he can do the same with one of the young defenseman coming up. I also think that MThead as you like to wrongly call him, played the kids in the playoffs when the game counted the most so that is not a credible argument anymore. Markov is no Henri Richard in the heart department. He is here because it worked out for both sides. If we had one of the kids ready for top 4, Markov would not get his 5.75 million and he would sign with another team in a heartbeat. Two related fundamental argument of which one is.....as you put it "sure he is aging and slowing down", which is why we need to push the three kids. His decline, which is already here and accelerating, has to be offset with the success of the kids. That is more important then a loss here or there because they made a mistake. I don't think you disagree with that, but what we wont agree on is what the coach will do. We have ample evidence that he will choose the safe route with a vet. Can you argue that Tinordi is worse then Murray? Then why did Murray play 53 games versus Tinordi's 22? Anything Murray did, Tinordi can do better AND improve in the process. So if you agree, then by definition, it was the coach who failed. Which is the second related argument. The upside is that it's only a one year NTC and can be traded in the second and third year. THAT makes the deal more palatable....unless Markov stinks up the joint. At which point, it costs cap space.
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Post by Polarice on Jun 23, 2014 21:44:09 GMT -5
Can you argue that Tinordi is worse then Murray? Then why did Murray play 53 games versus Tinordi's 22? Anything Murray did, Tinordi can do better AND improve in the process. So if you agree, then by definition, it was the coach who failed. Which is the second related argument. The big difference is that Murray scared the hell out of the opposing players....that was good enough for me to have him in the line up.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 23, 2014 21:46:46 GMT -5
Markov has a full NTC in his first year of the contract. The last two, it's a limited NTC. He picks 12 teams to which he'll accept a trade to. I would have preferred to negotiate the third year, I'll give it to you, but you get no NTC whatsoever, Two years and it's a limited NTC and one gets you a full NMC THAT is great offsetting news. At least he can be moved out and hopefully, a prospect coming back or a pick. Unless of course he keeps declining then no one will want him because of his salary. Ideally, Beau pushes him out the door.......
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 23, 2014 21:49:36 GMT -5
Can you argue that Tinordi is worse then Murray? Then why did Murray play 53 games versus Tinordi's 22? Anything Murray did, Tinordi can do better AND improve in the process. So if you agree, then by definition, it was the coach who failed. Which is the second related argument. The big difference is that Murray scared the hell out of the opposing players....that was good enough for me to have him in the line up. So can Tinordi. Apparently, Tinordi likes Laffs blood on his sweater.......
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Post by Polarice on Jun 23, 2014 21:55:06 GMT -5
The big difference is that Murray scared the hell out of the opposing players....that was good enough for me to have him in the line up. So can Tinordi. Can't wait to see him do that for a full season!!
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