|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 16, 2014 15:32:53 GMT -5
ForwardsPlayer | 2014-2015 | Thomas Plekanec | $5,000,000 | Max Pacioretty | $4,500,000 | P.A. Parenteau | $4,000,000 | David Desharnais | $3,500,000 | Lars Eller | $3,500,000 | Alex Galchenyuk | $3,225,000 | Brandon Prust | $2,500,000 | Jiri Sekac | $1,350,000 | Dale Weise | $1,025,000 | Brendan Gallagher | $870,000 | Michael Bournival | $870,000 | Manny Malhotra | $850,000 |
DefencemenPlayer | 2014-2015 | PK Subban | $9,000,000 | Andrei Markov | $5,750,000 | Sergei Gonchar | $4,600,000 | Alexei Yemelin | $4,100,000 | Bryan Allen | $3,400,000 | Tom Gilbert | $2,800,000 | Mike Weaver | $1,750,000 | Nathan Beaulieu | $1,275,000 |
GoaliesPlayer | 2014-2015 | Carey Price | $6,500,000 | Justin Tokarski | $562,500 |
TotalsThe updated numbers as per NHLNumbers.comTotal Cap Hit | $70.334 | Bonus Cusion | $3.420
| LTIR Replacement | $0 | Available Cap room | $2.087 |
*I am calculating full bonus cushion against the cap.
|
|
|
Post by HABSINFL on Jul 17, 2014 15:53:35 GMT -5
Looks like we have enough to take care of both Eller and PK. and some left over to acquire someone we might need at the trading deadline.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 17, 2014 19:30:08 GMT -5
What stands out to me, is that this team on paper is worse than the team we went to the Conference Finals with .... THIS team will struggle to make the playoffs
|
|
|
Post by christrpn on Jul 19, 2014 23:19:12 GMT -5
$12,819,000- apprx $9.0M (76)= $3,819,000 $3,819,000- Apprx $2.5M (81)= $1,319,000
That's not very much to sign another winger to play top 6, even if you trade Plekanec to get him, there's not going to be that much difference in Salary.
I would be comfortable with that much left when the team is finished and the season starts.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 20, 2014 7:29:02 GMT -5
...I factored in full bonus paid to Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Bournival in there... these bonus probably wont be met in full so you have another 3mil of possible leeway in there... still it's a risky business to use that bonus cushion to get over the cap during a season because it may penalize you the following year if players do reach those bonus level.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jul 24, 2014 19:32:18 GMT -5
After signing Eller we have $11,651,667
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 25, 2014 5:17:22 GMT -5
After signing Eller we have $11,651,667 Huh? We had $12 819 000 Eller gets $3 500 000 Room left is $9 319 000 We HAVE to include the bonuses. If not we could really get in cap trouble.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jul 25, 2014 5:45:46 GMT -5
After signing Eller we have $11,651,667 Huh? We had $12 819 000 Eller gets $3 500 000 Room left is $9 319 000 We HAVE to include the bonuses. If not we could really get in cap trouble. That is what tsn.ca had on the eller signing You are correct the this leaves mb with a lot less than the 11 million. Someone has to be moving.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jul 25, 2014 7:35:24 GMT -5
After signing Eller we have $11,651,667 Huh? We had $12 819 000 Eller gets $3 500 000 Room left is $9 319 000 We HAVE to include the bonuses. If not we could really get in cap trouble. Hard to say without knowing what those bonuses are. For example, if Galchenyuk could make more money by making the All Star team then the team knows that they won't have to pay that bonus, as he has already missed that window for two years of his entry-level deal (well, worst case scenario they'll have to pay one year). Ditto for guys like Tinordi and Beaulieu, who might have number of games played bonuses in their contracts. We don't know what those bonuses are, but it's possible that they are already un-attainable. Or attainable only to a certain percentage. I'm sure they've got this worked out to the penny. And you know what? I doubt Subban cares. If it becomes an issue then somebody like Moen or Budaj goes on the injury reserved list to start the season, and the team plays hide-the-contract until it is no longer a problem. Or they make a trade minor trade. Either way I don't think Subban is going to sacrifice millions of dollars just so that somebody like Moen stays on the team for one more year.
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Jul 25, 2014 12:22:18 GMT -5
deleted - duplication
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Jul 25, 2014 14:04:35 GMT -5
If the Habs don't make the playoffs it probably wouldn't be because the team is weaker but because a couple of teams have strengthened themselves. I honestly don't see this Hab team as worse than the one that entered the playoffs. They're minus Vanek, Briere, White, Gorges, Bouillon, and Murray, but only Vanek and Gorges might be missed. (I never considered White to be an asset.) They've added Parenteau, Malhotra, and Gilbert and they've extended Weaver. Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, and Prust return in good health. Several prospects have potential (although I'm not counting on anyone in particular).Beaulieu, Tinordi, Pateryn, and Sekac immediately come to mind, but DLR and Marschak might also be candidates to make the team. Emelin will probably be shifted to LD, his natural side. The depth in goal is there and might allow Bergevin to trade someone away. We'll have to wait until April 2015 before anyone can remind me that I'm being too optimistic.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 25, 2014 18:23:17 GMT -5
Huh? We had $12 819 000 Eller gets $3 500 000 Room left is $9 319 000 We HAVE to include the bonuses. If not we could really get in cap trouble. Hard to say without knowing what those bonuses are. For example, if Galchenyuk could make more money by making the All Star team then the team knows that they won't have to pay that bonus, as he has already missed that window for two years of his entry-level deal (well, worst case scenario they'll have to pay one year). Ditto for guys like Tinordi and Beaulieu, who might have number of games played bonuses in their contracts. We don't know what those bonuses are, but it's possible that they are already un-attainable. Or attainable only to a certain percentage. I'm sure they've got this worked out to the penny. And you know what? I doubt Subban cares. If it becomes an issue then somebody like Moen or Budaj goes on the injury reserved list to start the season, and the team plays hide-the-contract until it is no longer a problem. Or they make a trade minor trade. Either way I don't think Subban is going to sacrifice millions of dollars just so that somebody like Moen stays on the team for one more year. The CBA clearly states what they ELC bonuses are allowed to be. Last year, it is my opinion, they purposely dickered with Galchenyuk so he wouldn't obtain his bonuses ... But if we are going to count on him to help replace the missing top six production (Vanek) than he will meet the bonuses easily. Top six in ice time for forwards ... If they are going to make Galchenyuk a top six player, should be easy, right. Games played .... He should meet that one 20 goals ... Maybe not, but not really out of the question. 35 assists? 0.73 points per game? Top three forwards in plus minus? At the very least, IMO, if they play Galchenyuk like they should ....and not poke him to third line winger like last year, then we will be coughing up that 1 million. Guys like Beaulieu, Tinordi, Bournival ...sure there bonuses are negligible and can be "doctored" . But Galchenyuk, I can see him meeting every one if they develop him right this year. So at most, we have 10.3 million that Bergevin might sacrifice. But do you really think he will go right up to the cap? We all know he likes to save around 1.5 million in cap space ... He even said so himself. So that gives him around 8.5 for Subban and he'd still have to play rotating contracts like you mentioned. All signs point to a trade or a struggling year up against the cap
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jul 25, 2014 19:08:25 GMT -5
Hard to say without knowing what those bonuses are. For example, if Galchenyuk could make more money by making the All Star team then the team knows that they won't have to pay that bonus, as he has already missed that window for two years of his entry-level deal (well, worst case scenario they'll have to pay one year). Ditto for guys like Tinordi and Beaulieu, who might have number of games played bonuses in their contracts. We don't know what those bonuses are, but it's possible that they are already un-attainable. Or attainable only to a certain percentage. I'm sure they've got this worked out to the penny. And you know what? I doubt Subban cares. If it becomes an issue then somebody like Moen or Budaj goes on the injury reserved list to start the season, and the team plays hide-the-contract until it is no longer a problem. Or they make a trade minor trade. Either way I don't think Subban is going to sacrifice millions of dollars just so that somebody like Moen stays on the team for one more year. The CBA clearly states what they ELC bonuses are allowed to be. Last year, it is my opinion, they purposely dickered with Galchenyuk so he wouldn't obtain his bonuses ... But if we are going to count on him to help replace the missing top six production (Vanek) than he will meet the bonuses easily. Top six in ice time for forwards ... If they are going to make Galchenyuk a top six player, should be easy, right. Games played .... He should meet that one 20 goals ... Maybe not, but not really out of the question. 35 assists? 0.73 points per game? Top three forwards in plus minus? At the very least, IMO, if they play Galchenyuk like they should ....and not poke him to third line winger like last year, then we will be coughing up that 1 million. Guys like Beaulieu, Tinordi, Bournival ...sure there bonuses are negligible and can be "doctored" . But Galchenyuk, I can see him meeting every one if they develop him right this year. So at most, we have 10.3 million that Bergevin might sacrifice. But do you really think he will go right up to the cap? We all know he likes to save around 1.5 million in cap space ... He even said so himself. So that gives him around 8.5 for Subban and he'd still have to play rotating contracts like you mentioned. All signs point to a trade or a struggling year up against the cap The most Galchenyuk could make under the terms of his ELC, under the Schedule A list of bonuses (which is what you are referring to) is $850,000, and that's assuming he hits on all targets. Added to his $925,000 base salary and you would have a cap hit of $1.755. But if you include all of his bonuses, which would include the Schedule B bonuses, then according to capgeek his total cap hit would be $2.3 million. Meaning that he has a total of $525,000 set aside for those Schedule B bonuses. Those are the Calder Trophy (didn't win), First Team All Star, Hart Trophy and so on. Without knowing how those bonuses were allocated in Galchenyuk's contract it's impossible for US to say how much his real cap hit could possibly be, though for sure Bergevin knows. For all we know the entire $525,000 was riding on Galchenyuk winning the Calder, in which case he's out of luck, and the Habs have that extra half million to play with for sure, perhaps more. Ditto for guys like Gallagher, Beaulieu and Tinordi, who also didn't win the Calder. For all we know that total bonus cap hit could already be $1 million unattainable and thus free for the team to use. Additionally, even assuming that Galchenyuk gets his max, how bad of a situation would it really be? So we'd take a cap hit penalty of say a million or two next year, when the cap is going to be going up again. I'd take Galchenyuk hitting every performance bonus in return for a relatively small cap penalty any day, thanks. And a cursory look says we're unlikely to have that problem anyways, unless all the stars align. www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-entry-level-contracts-work
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 25, 2014 20:47:49 GMT -5
The CBA clearly states what they ELC bonuses are allowed to be. Last year, it is my opinion, they purposely dickered with Galchenyuk so he wouldn't obtain his bonuses ... But if we are going to count on him to help replace the missing top six production (Vanek) than he will meet the bonuses easily. Top six in ice time for forwards ... If they are going to make Galchenyuk a top six player, should be easy, right. Games played .... He should meet that one 20 goals ... Maybe not, but not really out of the question. 35 assists? 0.73 points per game? Top three forwards in plus minus? At the very least, IMO, if they play Galchenyuk like they should ....and not poke him to third line winger like last year, then we will be coughing up that 1 million. Guys like Beaulieu, Tinordi, Bournival ...sure there bonuses are negligible and can be "doctored" . But Galchenyuk, I can see him meeting every one if they develop him right this year. So at most, we have 10.3 million that Bergevin might sacrifice. But do you really think he will go right up to the cap? We all know he likes to save around 1.5 million in cap space ... He even said so himself. So that gives him around 8.5 for Subban and he'd still have to play rotating contracts like you mentioned. All signs point to a trade or a struggling year up against the cap The most Galchenyuk could make under the terms of his ELC, under the Schedule A list of bonuses (which is what you are referring to) is $850,000, and that's assuming he hits on all targets. Added to his $925,000 base salary and you would have a cap hit of $1.755. But if you include all of his bonuses, which would include the Schedule B bonuses, then according to capgeek his total cap hit would be $2.3 million. Meaning that he has a total of $525,000 set aside for those Schedule B bonuses. Those are the Calder Trophy (didn't win), First Team All Star, Hart Trophy and so on. Without knowing how those bonuses were allocated in Galchenyuk's contract it's impossible for US to say how much his real cap hit could possibly be, though for sure Bergevin knows. For all we know the entire $525,000 was riding on Galchenyuk winning the Calder, in which case he's out of luck, and the Habs have that extra half million to play with for sure, perhaps more. Ditto for guys like Gallagher, Beaulieu and Tinordi, who also didn't win the Calder. For all we know that total bonus cap hit could already be $1 million unattainable and thus free for the team to use. Additionally, even assuming that Galchenyuk gets his max, how bad of a situation would it really be? So we'd take a cap hit penalty of say a million or two next year, when the cap is going to be going up again. I'd take Galchenyuk hitting every performance bonus in return for a relatively small cap penalty any day, thanks. And a cursory look says we're unlikely to have that problem anyways, unless all the stars align. www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-entry-level-contracts-workIf he gets ALL his bonuses, his cap hit is 3.225 million. Meaning he has 1.45 million set aside on Schedule B bonuses. Now I agree those schedule B bonuses may be remote, but since it is still included in this years bonus, then it assume his bonuses are all attainable this year. I disagree that it's chump change that can easily be deferred. What if some bonuses had to be deferred to this year? We could potentially have 1.45 million less for Subban. I think we ended the year with under one million cap space. So while it won't affect Subban , you can see it can affect future contracts, especially as we are right up against the cap. The cap is going up, you say? It went up this year too, and we are right up against the ceiling. So let's say we defer the 1.45 million, or 1 million, or even the 850k. Right now we have 19 million in cap space for next year. We have 5 RFAs to sign (Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bornival, Tinordi, and Beaulieu). I don't see any there we are going to let walk. Plus we have to add Subban's contract. So let's say he gets his 10 million, because he doesn't care about losing a Travis Moen. Now we have 9 million to sign 5 RFAs ....and oh yeah, we only have 3 defense under contract. Lose a Moen, ...meh ....lose a Tinordi over Subban's contract? .... If we have to defer 850k , well we'd only have 8 million. I'd rather handle it this year.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jul 26, 2014 7:57:50 GMT -5
The most Galchenyuk could make under the terms of his ELC, under the Schedule A list of bonuses (which is what you are referring to) is $850,000, and that's assuming he hits on all targets. Added to his $925,000 base salary and you would have a cap hit of $1.755. But if you include all of his bonuses, which would include the Schedule B bonuses, then according to capgeek his total cap hit would be $2.3 million. Meaning that he has a total of $525,000 set aside for those Schedule B bonuses. Those are the Calder Trophy (didn't win), First Team All Star, Hart Trophy and so on. Without knowing how those bonuses were allocated in Galchenyuk's contract it's impossible for US to say how much his real cap hit could possibly be, though for sure Bergevin knows. For all we know the entire $525,000 was riding on Galchenyuk winning the Calder, in which case he's out of luck, and the Habs have that extra half million to play with for sure, perhaps more. Ditto for guys like Gallagher, Beaulieu and Tinordi, who also didn't win the Calder. For all we know that total bonus cap hit could already be $1 million unattainable and thus free for the team to use. Additionally, even assuming that Galchenyuk gets his max, how bad of a situation would it really be? So we'd take a cap hit penalty of say a million or two next year, when the cap is going to be going up again. I'd take Galchenyuk hitting every performance bonus in return for a relatively small cap penalty any day, thanks. And a cursory look says we're unlikely to have that problem anyways, unless all the stars align. www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-entry-level-contracts-workIf he gets ALL his bonuses, his cap hit is 3.225 million. Meaning he has 1.45 million set aside on Schedule B bonuses. Now I agree those schedule B bonuses may be remote, but since it is still included in this years bonus, then it assume his bonuses are all attainable this year. I disagree that it's chump change that can easily be deferred. What if some bonuses had to be deferred to this year? We could potentially have 1.45 million less for Subban. I think we ended the year with under one million cap space. So while it won't affect Subban , you can see it can affect future contracts, especially as we are right up against the cap. The cap is going up, you say? It went up this year too, and we are right up against the ceiling. So let's say we defer the 1.45 million, or 1 million, or even the 850k. Right now we have 19 million in cap space for next year. We have 5 RFAs to sign (Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bornival, Tinordi, and Beaulieu). I don't see any there we are going to let walk. Plus we have to add Subban's contract. So let's say he gets his 10 million, because he doesn't care about losing a Travis Moen. Now we have 9 million to sign 5 RFAs ....and oh yeah, we only have 3 defense under contract. Lose a Moen, ...meh ....lose a Tinordi over Subban's contract? .... If we have to defer 850k , well we'd only have 8 million. I'd rather handle it this year. You are right, the maximum bonus he can receive is $2.3 million, meaning his total cap hit is $3.225 million. On paper anyways, because we don't know how his bonuses are distributed, which was my original point, and which still stands. The only reason it is still listed on places like capgeek is become they don't know how his contract is structured either, so they can only put the maximum. But like I said, Bergevin for sure knows what Galchenyuk can or cannot attain, so only he knows for sure how much cap room he really has to play with it. As for the rest, the point still stands. We don't know what the others have for their bonuses either, nor do we know what the cap will be in 2015-16. Or what moves will be made during the year. Maybe somebody offers us three first rounders for David Desharnais. Maybe Pacioretty retires. Maybe we trade Subban for Crosby and Malkin. Who knows? Right now, in order for us to really start worrying about our cap structure in 2016 we'd have to give Subban maximum dollars, over $9 million, and Galchenyuk would have to hit on all his bonuses, and the cap would have to stay the same or decrease. None of those things have happened yet, and my original point was that in the case of Galchenyuk at least it may not even be possible to happen at all. It would seem VERY unlikely to me that NONE of Galchenyuk's Schedule B bonuses for example, involved him winning the Calder. The same logic could apply to Gallagher, Beaulieu, Bournival, and Tinordi, who are also entitled to bonuses which may or may not have an impact on the amount of money truly available for Bergevin to play with. If all those guys bet on themselves winning the Calder, then they too cannot achieve their ELC bonuses and Bergevin has even more money available to him. The cap has been around for about a decade now, and teams always seem to find a way out these predicaments. Considering we're not even in a predicament yet I'm not too concerned. It's possible that Bergevin has totally botched the math, but I don't see anything yet that would indicate that this is the case.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jul 26, 2014 11:57:18 GMT -5
to clarify. I don't think his schedule B bonuses are the same for every year. He very well may have had 2.3 million for winning the Calder in year one. In year three, that may be 2.3 million for winning any trophy, or getting named to the All Star team. Again, yes, it's remote. And again yes, Bergevin is one of the few that know what they are for sure.
I often wondered during the year if the reason Galchenyuk wasn't at center for two years now, is his bonuses. I'm sure Therrien knows too.
Anyhow, we need Galchenyuk, and we need Subban .... Hopefully we can find a way to get the remaining pieces we need via trade or on the cheap.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jan 28, 2015 22:49:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 28, 2015 23:06:28 GMT -5
A very good read ... right on ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jan 29, 2015 2:14:25 GMT -5
The Kings do indeed have some problems coming up. Justin Williams doesn't look like he's going to settle for a home town discount and he's a clutch player. Take him away and the Kings don't win those two Cups. Toffoli and Pearson are RFA's and will need some increases, or someone might dangle an offer sheet on them. Gaborik has a $6MM hit, but is he a $6MM player? Muzzin and Martinez' contract extensions will add nearly $5MM to next year's CAP hit. I love it. Watching a very good team implode.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jan 29, 2015 14:24:50 GMT -5
The Kings do indeed have some problems coming up. Justin Williams doesn't look like he's going to settle for a home town discount and he's a clutch player. Take him away and the Kings don't win those two Cups. Toffoli and Pearson are RFA's and will need some increases, or someone might dangle an offer sheet on them. Gaborik has a $6MM hit, but is he a $6MM player? Muzzin and Martinez' contract extensions will add nearly $5MM to next year's CAP hit. I love it. Watching a very good team implode. I don't know if the Hawks are in the same shape but it would be good to take someone off their hands.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jan 29, 2015 15:07:53 GMT -5
As eluded to in the article, it's one thing to have the space to fleece and another thing to pounce and be able to take advantage. If anyone can, I think Berg can.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 27, 2015 7:48:57 GMT -5
According to NHL Numbers.com Montreal will have $10.321 million freed up just by allowing their UFAs to walk ... they'll have only Galchenyuk and Beaulieu as RFAs to sign ... Petry would be at the top of my list of signings ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Apr 27, 2015 12:25:17 GMT -5
According to NHL Numbers.com Montreal will have $10.321 million freed up just by allowing their UFAs to walk ... they'll have only Galchenyuk and Beaulieu as RFAs to sign ... Petry would be at the top of my list of signings ... Cheers. Petry will eat up at least 6 mil, Galchenyuk will get a little raise 3.5, that leaves 800k to sign Beaulieu. I think if we sign Petry we have to loose some salary.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Apr 27, 2015 16:26:15 GMT -5
According to NHL Numbers.com Montreal will have $10.321 million freed up just by allowing their UFAs to walk ... they'll have only Galchenyuk and Beaulieu as RFAs to sign ... Petry would be at the top of my list of signings ... Cheers. Petry will eat up at least 6 mil, Galchenyuk will get a little raise 3.5, that leaves 800k to sign Beaulieu. I think if we sign Petry we have to loose some salary. Then we have to find a taker for either gilbert or PAP
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 13, 2015 15:00:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 13, 2015 15:33:18 GMT -5
Pretty good value til a probabable bigtime raise in 2017, the same year that Andrei Markov's contract comes off the books,good foresight by Bergeron IMO..seems like hes got a plan not just for this season but for 2,3 or 4 seasons in advance..i think most of the teams in cap trouble cant see to far ahead
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 13, 2015 18:46:07 GMT -5
That's a huge value for Montreal. He made about 850k as a second round pick. I expected the bridge deal to be in the $1.5 million per area.
**** Should we have a new thread for the cap situation for 15-16, as this contract affects that year and not the season that's ended for us?
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 13, 2015 19:47:12 GMT -5
I just assumed it was a continuing CAP thread. It's only on page 1, so that would suggest its not going to get a lot of use.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 14, 2015 11:05:26 GMT -5
interesting take on our up coming cap situation www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/who-will-canadiens-move-to-save-cap-space/" Assuming the salary cap is set at $71 million for 2015-16, the Beaulieu signing leaves Bergevin with just $5.25 million to sign restricted free agents Brian Flynn, Alex Galchenyuk, Jarred Tinordi, Christian Thomas, Michael Bournival, and unrestricted free agent Torrey Mitchell." so looking like we are going to have to move a piece or 2 just for cap savings
|
|