|
Post by Skilly on Aug 2, 2014 16:43:34 GMT -5
The way I look at it, it's $1 million more than I had hoped it would take. Is he 'overpaid' now? Maybe a tad. Five years from now, if the cap continues to rise by 6-7% a year, he won't be. When Drew Doughty signed his 8 year $56 million deal, the cap was $64.3 million. That's 10.88% of the total cap. The cap will have to break $82 million for Subban to take up the same amount of cap space. That's three years from now, based on an annual inflation of 7%. For the next three years, Subban will be under even more scrutiny than before. IMO, he's handled everything thrown at him to this point, and I have no reason to believe he won't continue to do so. I think his detractors continue to underestimate his resolve and mental toughness. He's an extremely focused person. Regarding a contract going out, something will have to budge at some point. I'm not sure what you are trying to say ... 9 million is 13% of the total cap. Subban takes up MORE than what Doughty did, and will continue to do so for another three years, if the cap goes up. I just re-read, I think I see what you are saying. I still think he is way overpaid .... He is not the best defenseman in the league, it's debatable if he is top five. Contracts like this are what contribute to lock-outs.
|
|
|
Post by UberCranky on Aug 2, 2014 16:50:35 GMT -5
The problem is not what PK "deserved", it's what the market dictates. This is all I wanted to see ... what was PK worth as per the market ... Bergevin probably knew what that was, too ... question, though ... was there anyone out there who honestly felt the Canadiens had a case with a number like that? Cheers. In the last few days, I contacted every shill and serious source I know and the consensus was.....the problem for the Hab's is that PK is too marketable, particularly as a minority. He has real draw and from the spread of articles and publicity, you can see that in the last few days. He is level headed, well spoken, attention magnate, presentable.......and way, way more valuable in some markets. So the Hab's were faced with only two options. Pay extra million or go entirely in a different direction.
|
|
|
Post by habsask on Aug 2, 2014 16:57:29 GMT -5
The way I look at it, it's $1 million more than I had hoped it would take. Is he 'overpaid' now? Maybe a tad. Five years from now, if the cap continues to rise by 6-7% a year, he won't be. When Drew Doughty signed his 8 year $56 million deal, the cap was $64.3 million. That's 10.88% of the total cap. The cap will have to break $82 million for Subban to take up the same amount of cap space. That's three years from now, based on an annual inflation of 7%. For the next three years, Subban will be under even more scrutiny than before. IMO, he's handled everything thrown at him to this point, and I have no reason to believe he won't continue to do so. I think his detractors continue to underestimate his resolve and mental toughness. He's an extremely focused person. Regarding a contract going out, something will have to budge at some point. What I'm thinking blny. Of course the Cap could go down in the future- that would make things awkward. In the longer term this puts all the more stress on drafting and developing a continual flow of new young talent, that can be paid less for a few years, to fill out the team instead of higher paid veterans.
|
|
|
Post by habsask on Aug 2, 2014 17:03:59 GMT -5
This is all I wanted to see ... what was PK worth as per the market ... Bergevin probably knew what that was, too ... question, though ... was there anyone out there who honestly felt the Canadiens had a case with a number like that? Cheers. In the last few days, I contacted every shill and serious source I know and the consensus was.....the problem for the Hab's is that PK is too marketable, particularly as a minority. He has real draw and from the spread of articles and publicity, you can see that in the last few days. He is level headed, well spoken, attention magnate, presentable.......and way, way more valuable in some markets. So the Hab's were faced with only two options. Pay extra million for one or go entirely in a different direction. Good point HA- and Habs fans are soooo starved for a superstar that had to play into Berg's decision. Well Berg appears willing to pay his core players but he'd better be right about them. I'm still a bit taken aback by what Eller got. As soon as I saw that I knew that Subban would have to be paid a lot. Eller is a replaceable 3rd line player, Subban is an unreplaceable star defenseman.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Aug 2, 2014 17:06:36 GMT -5
The way I look at it, it's $1 million more than I had hoped it would take. Is he 'overpaid' now? Maybe a tad. Five years from now, if the cap continues to rise by 6-7% a year, he won't be. When Drew Doughty signed his 8 year $56 million deal, the cap was $64.3 million. That's 10.88% of the total cap. The cap will have to break $82 million for Subban to take up the same amount of cap space. That's three years from now, based on an annual inflation of 7%. For the next three years, Subban will be under even more scrutiny than before. IMO, he's handled everything thrown at him to this point, and I have no reason to believe he won't continue to do so. I think his detractors continue to underestimate his resolve and mental toughness. He's an extremely focused person. Regarding a contract going out, something will have to budge at some point. What I'm thinking blny. Of course the Cap could go down in the future- that would make things awkward. In the longer term this puts all the more stress on drafting and developing a continual flow of new young talent, that can be paid less for a few years, to fill out the team instead of higher paid veterans. No doubt, the deal is not without risks. We saw this summer that the cap didn't go up as much as was predicted. However, with the new tv deal, I think revenues will climb. League revenues would only continue to climb if they moved a few weak sisters to better markets (instead of eying expansion). It's all in PK's court now, and I have a considerable amount of faith that he's plenty capable of continuing to raise the level of his game. Few have his resolve, fewer have had the level of scrutiny he has yet he continues to deal with it.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Aug 2, 2014 18:25:17 GMT -5
Very pleased a deal is done. Looking forward to seeing the C on his jersey. Hope to go to the training camp. Drop the puck already.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Aug 2, 2014 18:58:20 GMT -5
Below is an article about PKs conf call with the media www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/subban-signs-eight-year-deal-with-habsAn interesting comment in the article makes no mention of MT He added: “I’m just happy to know that I’m going to be playing under Marc Bergevin and under Geoff Molson for the next eight years. It’s truly flattering, thrilling and it’s an exciting time for me moving forward.”
|
|
|
Post by UberCranky on Aug 2, 2014 19:11:51 GMT -5
Below is an article about PKs conf call with the media www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/subban-signs-eight-year-deal-with-habsAn interesting comment in the article makes no mention of MT He added: “I’m just happy to know that I’m going to be playing under Marc Bergevin and under Geoff Molson for the next eight years. It’s truly flattering, thrilling and it’s an exciting time for me moving forward.” Who is...who is....who is....I can't even say his name..... He'll be gone long before Subbans contract gets dusty.....
|
|
|
Post by blny on Aug 2, 2014 19:12:58 GMT -5
Below is an article about PKs conf call with the media www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/subban-signs-eight-year-deal-with-habsAn interesting comment in the article makes no mention of MT He added: “I’m just happy to know that I’m going to be playing under Marc Bergevin and under Geoff Molson for the next eight years. It’s truly flattering, thrilling and it’s an exciting time for me moving forward.” Might be a telling comment, might be a subconscious omission because he knows it's very unlikely a coach lasts the 8 years of his new deal.
|
|
|
Post by Disp on Aug 2, 2014 20:05:54 GMT -5
Below is an article about PKs conf call with the media www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/subban-signs-eight-year-deal-with-habsAn interesting comment in the article makes no mention of MT He added: “I’m just happy to know that I’m going to be playing under Marc Bergevin and under Geoff Molson for the next eight years. It’s truly flattering, thrilling and it’s an exciting time for me moving forward.” Might be a telling comment, might be a subconscious omission because he knows it's very unlikely a coach lasts the 8 years of his new deal. Or it's because he was dealing with the owner and gm through the negotiations. Which, in that context, has nothing to do with MT.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Aug 2, 2014 20:22:32 GMT -5
Might be a telling comment, might be a subconscious omission because he knows it's very unlikely a coach lasts the 8 years of his new deal. Or it's because he was dealing with the owner and gm through the negotiations. Which, in that context, has nothing to do with MT. The full quote is in the Habs press release. He goes onto say that he doesn't want things to change, including coaching. I'd say he's given about as big a ringing endorsement for the entire staff as a player can.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Aug 2, 2014 20:41:33 GMT -5
Or it's because he was dealing with the owner and gm through the negotiations. Which, in that context, has nothing to do with MT. The full quote is in the Habs press release. He goes onto say that he doesn't want things to change, including coaching. I'd say he's given about as big a ringing endorsement for the entire staff as a player can. in other words, lets get on with it. the drama is over. find something else to wring your hands about, Habs fans. [and we will]
|
|
|
Post by blny on Aug 2, 2014 20:43:46 GMT -5
The full quote is in the Habs press release. He goes onto say that he doesn't want things to change, including coaching. I'd say he's given about as big a ringing endorsement for the entire staff as a player can. in other words, lets get on with it. the drama is over. find something else to wring your hands about, Habs fans. [and we will] ... and those in other markets. While well spoken this week, you could tell (IMO) that the Toronto-centric media got on his nerves.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Aug 2, 2014 20:50:02 GMT -5
I hope he's ready for the much higher expectations. It's one thing to play like he did for $4MM a season and something quite different when you're making $9MM,
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 2, 2014 20:50:59 GMT -5
Below is an article about PKs conf call with the media www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/subban-signs-eight-year-deal-with-habsAn interesting comment in the article makes no mention of MT He added: “I’m just happy to know that I’m going to be playing under Marc Bergevin and under Geoff Molson for the next eight years. It’s truly flattering, thrilling and it’s an exciting time for me moving forward.” Odds spodskins! No mention of Therrien? Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Aug 2, 2014 21:11:53 GMT -5
Below is an article about PKs conf call with the media www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/subban-signs-eight-year-deal-with-habsAn interesting comment in the article makes no mention of MT He added: “I’m just happy to know that I’m going to be playing under Marc Bergevin and under Geoff Molson for the next eight years. It’s truly flattering, thrilling and it’s an exciting time for me moving forward.” Odds spodskins! No mention of Therrien? Cheers. That soundbite is taken from the press release. Later in the presser he states he doesn't want things to change there either.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 2, 2014 21:27:11 GMT -5
I hope he's ready for the much higher expectations. It's one thing to play like he did for $4MM a season and something quite different when you're making $9MM, He seems to have the Cup in his eyes ... nice change of direction from le club traditionnel ... that's how I see this signing ... the Habs have finally sent a message that they're more than willing to spend the money to retain their stars ... but my expectations are not only with PK, but with the club, too ... they've proven to me that they can go for it, so anything less a serious run at a Cup ... every year ... will be unacceptable ... he was pretty savvy the way he got Vanek into town ... we're going to need more of that ... Bergevin doesn't have a lot of cap space remaining ... will be interesting to see if he plans to free up more cap space ... could be the next Detroit Red Wings if Bergevin keeps working at it ... they had Nick Lidstrom ... we've got PK Subban ... that's the expectation I have for him now ... no excuses ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Aug 2, 2014 22:43:33 GMT -5
Sure, I'm relieved about signing Subban, but satisfying his demands will cut into the Habs' depth. If I had known sooner that he would hold out for so much I wouldn't have re-signed Markov. I thought the Bruins had problems but the Habs have bigger ones. I will be be a lot less forgiving of Subban's future errors of judgment.
I wonder who the sacrificial lambs will be. Which teams are on the lookout for useful players at little cost? Bergevin is on the spot now.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Aug 3, 2014 6:52:55 GMT -5
Colour me stunned. Not sure what colour that is, but colour me so.
I'm stunned because I just couldn't see why Subban would sign a short term contract for less than double-digits. There is no doubt in my mind that in two years, as an unrestricted free agent, Subban would have commanded double-digits per year. There is some, but only some doubt in my mind that in five years he'd be in the $12 million range. Perhaps higher. Either I'm reading the tea leaves wrong, or Subban really is genuine when he says that he wants to spend his entire career here.
Have we become so cynical that we just can't believe players would actually be loyal like that? First we have Gorges throwing a hissy-fit because he has been traded AWAY from the team, and now we have Subban leaving millions on the table to stay with us. What the...??
Look, this is not a GREAT contract for Bergevin or the team. Subban is definitely "overpaid" per his current value, and possibly even more so considering his standing amongst other NHL defensemen. I think he's a great defenseman, and I've been clamouring for, hoping for, praying for, an elite #1 defenseman ever since HabsRus sprung from clear observer's deep pockets. Remember that guy? Clear observer? He told us years ago that Subban was going to be a super-star. He was right... but I digress. While Subban is a great defenseman, and could very well be the the undisputed best defenseman in the league very shortly, I think right now it's pretty debatable and few would say that Subban wins over guys like Suter, Weber, Pietrangelo, Keith and maybe a couple of others. In that category yes, but not the clear and away winner. No matter, given his unique circumstances he was well positioned to demand, and get, the moon and all the cheese that comes with it. But he settled for just the moon. It does not "help" the Montreal Canadiens in that it's not a huge home-town discount, but it does not cripple the team either. Makes Bergevin's job more difficult, for sure, but not impossible.
I think that if I were to evaluate this I would say he is going to be overpaid for the first four, maybe five years, in terms of on-ice production versus his salary, and will be about fair for the remaining years on his contract. It will never be a "deal" for Montreal, in my opinion, but nor will it be a Gomez-like albatross in that you're getting zero bangs for your considerable bucks. I am quite happy with this deal.
|
|
|
Post by christrpn on Aug 3, 2014 7:09:35 GMT -5
So PK was signed to a two yr $5.75M Bridge deal (Which a lot of people thought it was a bad idea)
Now Signed subban to a 8yr $72M long term deal (which some people thought is overpayment and there should have been a longer deal done 2 yrs ago.)
Ultimately we'll have Subban for 10yrs at $77.75M
10yrs at $7.775M. In my opinion, thats a steal
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Aug 3, 2014 7:26:56 GMT -5
Sure, I'm relieved about signing Subban, but satisfying his demands will cut into the Habs' depth. If I had known sooner that he would hold out for so much I wouldn't have re-signed Markov. I thought the Bruins had problems but the Habs have bigger ones. I will be be a lot less forgiving of Subban's future errors of judgment. I wonder who the sacrificial lambs will be. Which teams are on the lookout for useful players at little cost? Bergevin is on the spot now. I don't know about that... we're obviously in very good shape right now, with a full roster and a couple of million in wiggle room left. Assuming the bonuses don't come into play, but I don't think they will. At least not significantly. Looking ahead to the season after the upcoming year, 2015-16, according to capgeek we have $10.7 million in cap space, with eight players to be signed. RFAs: Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Beaulieu, Tinordi UFAs: Weaver, Budaj, Malhotra So now that we've set the "bridge" precedent, let's assume that all our RFAs get $2 million raises, with the exception of Bournival, who only gets $1 million. Because we're mean that way. That would be $9 million right there. Our UFAs are somewhat easier to replace. Weaver is making $1.75 million, but that should be easier to replace at a much cheaper rate, especially if Beaulieu and Tinordi play like they deserve $2 million raises. By somebody like Paetryn and his $562,000 contract, which strangely enough happens to be a one-way deal for that season. Even more bizarrely, Dustin Tokarski's contract is also one-way in 2015-16, for the same $562,000. So if we let Weaver and Budaj walk, and replace them with the already signed Paetryn and Tokarski, we'd add another $1.1 or so to the roster, That just leaves our fourth line center Malhotra to replace. So to summarize, if the cap stays the same, we'd have $10.7 million in cap space. With no other changes, we could replace that with $9 million or so in RFA raises, and replacing our UFAs with our in-house players at a cost of $1.1 million, for a total of $10.1 million or so, give or take. That would give us a little bit of room to replace Malhotra, with no players traded, and no rise in the cap. Does this Bergevin guy actually know what he's doing? Edited to account for Malhotra.
|
|
|
Post by christrpn on Aug 3, 2014 7:33:30 GMT -5
Sure, I'm relieved about signing Subban, but satisfying his demands will cut into the Habs' depth. If I had known sooner that he would hold out for so much I wouldn't have re-signed Markov. I thought the Bruins had problems but the Habs have bigger ones. I will be be a lot less forgiving of Subban's future errors of judgment. I wonder who the sacrificial lambs will be. Which teams are on the lookout for useful players at little cost? Bergevin is on the spot now. I don't know about that... we're obviously in very good shape right now, with a full roster and a couple of million in wiggle room left. Assuming the bonuses don't come into play, but I don't think they will. At least not significantly. Looking ahead to the season after the upcoming year, 2015-16, according to capgeek we have $10.7 million in cap space, with eight players to be signed. RFAs: Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Beaulieu, Tinordi UFAs: Weaver, Budaj So now that we've set the "bridge" precedent, let's assume that all our RFAs get $2 million raises, with the exception of Bournival, who only gets $1 million. Because we're mean that way. That would be $9 million right there. Our UFAs are somewhat easier to replace. Weaver is making $1.75 million, but that should be easier to replace at a much cheaper rate, especially if Beaulieu and Tinordi play like they deserve $2 million raises. By somebody like Paetryn and his $562,000 contract, which strangely enough happens to be a one-way deal for that season. Even more bizarrely, Dustin Tokarski's contract is also one-way in 2015-16, for the same $562,000. So if we let Weaver and Budaj walk, and replace them with the already signed Paetryn and Tokarski, we'd add another $1.1 or so to the roster, So to summarize, if the cap stays the same, we'd have $10.7 million in cap space. With no other changes, we could replace that with $9 million or so in RFA raises, and replacing our UFAs with our in-house players at a cost of $1.1 million, for a total of $10.1 million or so, give or take. Still room to spare, no players traded, and no rise in the cap. Does this Bergevin guy actually know what he's doing? Not to mention the next season, Where Pleks, Bourque, Parenteau, Moen, Prust, Weise, Gilbert are all gone. Then you have guys like Crisp, Andrighetto, DLR, MacCarron, Sekac and Scherbak all with professional hockey in NA under their belts. I think he knows EXACTly what he's doing
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Aug 3, 2014 8:52:53 GMT -5
Not to mention the next season, Where Pleks, Bourque, Parenteau, Moen, Prust, Weise, Gilbert are all gone. Then you have guys like Crisp, Andrighetto, DLR, MacCarron, Sekac and Scherbak all with professional hockey in NA under their belts. I think he knows EXACTly what he's doing If the cap goes up by $5 million or so because of the Rogers deal, and we manage to deal either Desharnais or Plekanec for prospects and/or picks, we could be looking at having eight to ten million in cap space in 2015-16...
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 3, 2014 9:32:21 GMT -5
Not to mention the next season, Where Pleks, Bourque, Parenteau, Moen, Prust, Weise, Gilbert are all gone. Then you have guys like Crisp, Andrighetto, DLR, MacCarron, Sekac and Scherbak all with professional hockey in NA under their belts. I think he knows EXACTly what he's doing If the cap goes up by $5 million or so because of the Rogers deal, and we manage to deal either Desharnais or Plekanec for prospects and/or picks, we could be looking at having eight to ten million in cap space in 2015-16... Bergeving has proven to me that if there's a way to improve the club, pretty much at any time of the year, he'll do it ... he's all about business ... I don't have a crystal ball but I suspect one of the two players you mentioned might be on their way out of town ... if Josh Gorges' salary was a benchmark then both DD and Pleks' salaries are in that area ... who knows, but he might find the need for that freed-up cap space come the trade deadline ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Aug 3, 2014 10:04:49 GMT -5
In the last few days, I contacted every shill and serious source I know and the consensus was.....the problem for the Hab's is that PK is too marketable, particularly as a minority. He has real draw and from the spread of articles and publicity, you can see that in the last few days. He is level headed, well spoken, attention magnate, presentable.......and way, way more valuable in some markets. So the Hab's were faced with only two options. Pay extra million for one or go entirely in a different direction. Good point HA- and Habs fans are soooo starved for a superstar that had to play into Berg's decision. Well Berg appears willing to pay his core players but he'd better be right about them. I'm still a bit taken aback by what Eller got. As soon as I saw that I knew that Subban would have to be paid a lot. Eller is a replaceable 3rd line player, Subban is an unreplaceable star defenseman. I believe Berg is betting on Eller being much more than a replaceable 3rd line player. I expect him to be much better too. We shall see, I guess. Shades of the DD contract.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Aug 3, 2014 10:43:53 GMT -5
So PK was signed to a two yr $5.75M Bridge deal (Which a lot of people thought it was a bad idea) Now Signed subban to a 8yr $72M long term deal (which some people thought is overpayment and there should have been a longer deal done 2 yrs ago.) Ultimately we'll have Subban for 10yrs at $77.75M 10yrs at $7.775M. In my opinion, thats a steal That's a pretty darn good way of looking at it.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Aug 3, 2014 13:09:14 GMT -5
What a relief. I tell you, PK is the last guy I worry about when it comes to performing up to the contract. He's got a great work ethic, he wants to win, cares about his teammates. Other than maybe Drew Doughty, there isn't a dman in the league I would trade him straight up for.
This is Bergevin's team now. Year 3 and I expect nothing less than pushing Boston for the division, although I still don't think we did enough to address our needs for more offense.
But this is a good day and time to focus on the season.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Aug 3, 2014 14:00:45 GMT -5
This is Bergevin's team now. Year 3 and I expect nothing less than pushing Boston for the division, although I still don't think we did enough to address our needs for more offense. I think Boston comes back a bit. Key guys are long in the tooth and/or just don't scare the Habs much. Thornton left for a pay day. The Bruins still have to shed some salary I believe to fit under the cap with the bonus penalty they have to offset. You're right about scoring. I'm hopeful that Plekanec can be turned into a scoring winger via trade. Bourque-Eller-Sekac(?) Prust-Malhotra-Moen I'd like to see a full year of Bourque and Eller. They've shown they can produce together. It might not make for a great defensive 3rd line, but I think it will be pretty dynamic.
|
|
|
Post by UberCranky on Aug 3, 2014 14:04:29 GMT -5
Colour me stunned. Not sure what colour that is, but colour me so. Colour you? No problem. Home Depot. Get colour swatches. The signing had nothing to do with value. He was somewhat unique in that he is a young star and has marketing value other teams will pay for. And we paid for it. The bigger problem.....is that this can turn sour. If he has an off season next year, given the elevated level of expectations, this can turn ugly in a hurry. In an ideal world, we win a cup and then any failing season gets a few year honeymoon relief. Great money carries great expectations........
|
|
|
Post by 24andcounting on Aug 3, 2014 14:06:27 GMT -5
Ignore this. I had a huge rant prepared based on some reporting I incorrectly translated.
I'm thrilled he's signed!
|
|