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Post by jkr on Aug 3, 2014 14:15:14 GMT -5
Ignore this. I had a huge rant prepared based on some reporting I incorrectly translated. I'm thrilled he's signed! LOL I'm sure there's stuff I posted on Friday afternoon that I would that I would like back.
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Post by UberCranky on Aug 3, 2014 15:09:47 GMT -5
Ignore this. I had a huge rant prepared based on some reporting I incorrectly translated. I'm thrilled he's signed! LOL I'm sure there's stuff I posted on Friday afternoon that I would that I would like back. Oh yee of little faith in The Berg. Given that I turned into a rabid chihuahua half way through Gainey reign and thought that Goat should of never left the pastures, I'm thrilled we got a GM with some big ones to do the right things. The Berg strikes me as the guy who would run over his own mother to get to a cup.....and I love it. ALL HAIL THE BERG YEE OF LITTLE FAITH!
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Post by UberCranky on Aug 3, 2014 15:12:23 GMT -5
BTW...I think that Andre Savard was going to be a Berg version but he started from a garbage dump and Gainey had a huge halo. Never got a chance to carry out his plan.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 3, 2014 16:11:40 GMT -5
Ignore this. I had a huge rant prepared based on some reporting I incorrectly translated. I'm thrilled he's signed! Would have been interesting to read it.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 3, 2014 16:19:39 GMT -5
Ignore this. I had a huge rant prepared based on some reporting I incorrectly translated. I'm thrilled he's signed! LOL I'm sure there's stuff I posted on Friday afternoon that I would that I would like back. Another life lesson.
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 3, 2014 16:22:25 GMT -5
BTW...I think that Andre Savard was going to be a Berg version but he started from a garbage dump and Gainey had a huge halo. Never got a chance to carry out his plan. I don't think I've ever seen a Happy Cranky.... what does his dance look like.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 3, 2014 16:43:45 GMT -5
Great money carries great expectations........ This is what I was getting at earlier ... my expectations of PK have changed considerably ... it's time to walk The Walk ... he has the 3rd-highest cap hit in the league now and I won't be happy with him until he's proven he's worth that kind of scratch ... I saw something in Marc Bergevin ... he's not your traditional Montreal GM ... he doesn't convey the stoic, neocon type ... he's kind of an a-la-mode kind of guy who has a plan and knows how to manage his finances getting there ... I just have a gut feel that he's not totally done ... he still might move another salary out, but who knows for sure ... he's made some mistakes but that doesn't necessarily mean he's done a bad job ... the Habs are back on the map because of this guy ... and my expectations are huge on this guy now ... Cheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 3, 2014 16:52:24 GMT -5
BTW...I think that Andre Savard was going to be a Berg version but he started from a garbage dump and Gainey had a huge halo. Never got a chance to carry out his plan. In my books he's the best GM we've had since Serge Savard ... Savard made his mistakes, too, but he has 2 Cups to his résumé ... Bergevin isn't there yet, but he's really working in that direction ... Cheers.
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Post by jkr on Aug 3, 2014 16:56:05 GMT -5
LOL I'm sure there's stuff I posted on Friday afternoon that I would that I would like back. Another life lesson. Yeah, wait 24 hours before posting.
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Post by UberCranky on Aug 3, 2014 17:08:08 GMT -5
BTW...I think that Andre Savard was going to be a Berg version but he started from a garbage dump and Gainey had a huge halo. Never got a chance to carry out his plan. I don't think I've ever seen a Happy Cranky.... what does his dance look like.
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Post by habsask on Aug 3, 2014 17:27:01 GMT -5
Good point HA- and Habs fans are soooo starved for a superstar that had to play into Berg's decision. Well Berg appears willing to pay his core players but he'd better be right about them. I'm still a bit taken aback by what Eller got. As soon as I saw that I knew that Subban would have to be paid a lot. Eller is a replaceable 3rd line player, Subban is an unreplaceable star defenseman. I believe Berg is betting on Eller being much more than a replaceable 3rd line player. I expect him to be much better too. We shall see, I guess. Shades of the DD contract. Your assessment makes sense if Eller develops into a 2nd line center. So I hope that you are right. That would mean that Plekanec and Desharnais are not in Bergevin's mid to longer term plans. Unless Pleks becomes the 3rd line center or is dealt which still leaves Desharnais to sort out- I can't see Desharnais in any other slot than a 1st or 2nd line center as he needs talented scoring wingers to be effective. Eller could be played as a winger I suppose but he just doesn't appear as effective in that role. Just to be clear I am not disparaging Eller or 3rd line centers in general. Just that they are a lot easier to find than superstar defensemen.
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Post by habsask on Aug 3, 2014 17:28:47 GMT -5
So PK was signed to a two yr $5.75M Bridge deal (Which a lot of people thought it was a bad idea) Now Signed subban to a 8yr $72M long term deal (which some people thought is overpayment and there should have been a longer deal done 2 yrs ago.) Ultimately we'll have Subban for 10yrs at $77.75M 10yrs at $7.775M. In my opinion, thats a steal That's a pretty darn good way of looking at it. Yes makes me feel better too.
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Post by habsask on Aug 3, 2014 17:34:58 GMT -5
LOL I'm sure there's stuff I posted on Friday afternoon that I would that I would like back. Oh yee of little faith in The Berg. Given that I turned into a rabid chihuahua half way through Gainey reign and thought that Goat should of never left the pastures, I'm thrilled we got a GM with some big ones to do the right things. The Berg strikes me as the guy who would run over his own mother to get to a cup.....and I love it. ALL HAIL THE BERG YEE OF LITTLE FAITH! I'm on the BergWagon too. You providing free beer?
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Post by habsask on Aug 3, 2014 17:39:03 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen a Happy Cranky.... what does his dance look like. ......ummmm......speechless.....
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Post by Skilly on Aug 3, 2014 22:25:12 GMT -5
This is Bergevin's team now. Year 3 and I expect nothing less than pushing Boston for the division, although I still don't think we did enough to address our needs for more offense. I think Boston comes back a bit. Key guys are long in the tooth and/or just don't scare the Habs much. Thornton left for a pay day. The Bruins still have to shed some salary I believe to fit under the cap with the bonus penalty they have to offset. You're right about scoring. I'm hopeful that Plekanec can be turned into a scoring winger via trade. Bourque-Eller-Sekac(?) Prust-Malhotra-Moen I'd like to see a full year of Bourque and Eller. They've shown they can produce together. It might not make for a great defensive 3rd line, but I think it will be pretty dynamic. You are going to have to show me proof that they produced when together .... I combed through some stats sites, they scored 4 goals (ES+SH) all year. Two when they had Briere on the line, and two when they had Prust on the line. They also had 4 scored against, 2 for each line. (They played about 118 minutes together all year) In comparison, the Vanek-Desharnais-Pacioretty line played 190 minutes and scored 16.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 3, 2014 22:32:01 GMT -5
I guess the next question / poll everyone needs to answer for themselves is what kind of production justifies 9 million? Cause let's face it, PK ain't getting his million to play shut down defense. If PK isn't producing on the scoresheet the Habs are in trouble, especially with no Vanek replacement. For 9-bones, I'm expecting him to push 70 points.
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Post by Skilly on Aug 3, 2014 22:42:36 GMT -5
So PK was signed to a two yr $5.75M Bridge deal (Which a lot of people thought it was a bad idea) Now Signed subban to a 8yr $72M long term deal (which some people thought is overpayment and there should have been a longer deal done 2 yrs ago.) Ultimately we'll have Subban for 10yrs at $77.75M 10yrs at $7.775M. In my opinion, thats a steal If Bergevin had to give Subban 7.75 million two years ago he would have been lynched. A defenseman, with NO hardware, with all kinds of holes and questions in his game, coming off an ELC .... And signing him to THE highest paid defenseman back then.?? Two years ago, we could have signed him long term to less than what Karlsson, the reigning Norris trophy , was given .... 5.5 million to 6 million. Let's not kid ourselves, the board was split on giving him big bucks cause he proved nothing. But the big bucks were about 2 million a season less than the 7.75 calculation over ten years.
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Post by blny on Aug 3, 2014 23:01:06 GMT -5
I think Boston comes back a bit. Key guys are long in the tooth and/or just don't scare the Habs much. Thornton left for a pay day. The Bruins still have to shed some salary I believe to fit under the cap with the bonus penalty they have to offset. You're right about scoring. I'm hopeful that Plekanec can be turned into a scoring winger via trade. Bourque-Eller-Sekac(?) Prust-Malhotra-Moen I'd like to see a full year of Bourque and Eller. They've shown they can produce together. It might not make for a great defensive 3rd line, but I think it will be pretty dynamic. You are going to have to show me proof that they produced when together .... I combed through some stats sites, they scored 4 goals (ES+SH) all year. Two when they had Briere on the line, and two when they had Prust on the line. They also had 4 scored against, 2 for each line. (They played about 118 minutes together all year) In comparison, the Vanek-Desharnais-Pacioretty line played 190 minutes and scored 16. They had shifts together in the playoffs each of the last two years and showed strong chemistry. It's all the proof I need to say that they should be given the chance to play together this season.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 3, 2014 23:53:48 GMT -5
I couldn't last a game with Bourque before I'd kill him. Not sure Eller could last much longer. And yes,I'm biased.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Aug 4, 2014 7:16:15 GMT -5
If there's one guy on the team I'm not really worried about living up to the contract it's PK. He's a truly elite, dynamic player, he has a great work ethc, he's competitive, wants to win, and cares about his teammates. If nothing else, the contract should make him immune to Therrien's tendency last year to "teach him a lesson" and mess with his ice time. The playoffs and now the contract put an end to that nonsense.
This is Bergevin's team now. His contracts for the most part. This pretty much caps off the summer and while I'm still concerned that we didn't do enough to replace the offense we lost with Vanek, the expectations are and should be very high for the 2014-15 Habs.
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Post by stoat on Aug 4, 2014 8:16:53 GMT -5
I guess the next question / poll everyone needs to answer for themselves is what kind of production justifies 9 million? Cause let's face it, PK ain't getting his million to play shut down defense. If PK isn't producing on the scoresheet the Habs are in trouble, especially with no Vanek replacement. For 9-bones, I'm expecting him to push 70 points. Vanek was an expensive rental player acquired for the playoffs and he didn't play up to the level expected of him. Somehow the Habs defeated the Bruins without depending on his contributions. I'm looking for Scherbak, Sekac, and other prospects to develop into scorers--perhaps not in 2014-15 but in the future.
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Post by CentreHice on Aug 4, 2014 10:58:00 GMT -5
So many haters commenting in cyberspace.....i.e. "Bergevin got hosed by paying more ($9 million/year) than Subban was asking ($8.5 million/year)."
What they don't seem to grasp is that Subban's $8.5 figure was a high-ask for the arbitration award. His starting figure for a multi-year deal was no doubt more than $9 million, seeing as he would give up some UFA years.
Win for both camps. And, as has been mentioned on this board, Subban would've gotten 8 figures as a UFA in a few years (or even via trade now) on other teams desperate to fill seats. He's THAT kind of player. And Bergevin knows it.
Good job on all sides....mostly for getting it done before the media had time to further assassinate Subban's character/Bergevin's business savvy.
CHaters gonna CHate.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 4, 2014 11:26:39 GMT -5
CH, I find signings like this draw that kind of attention ... as I was saying before, if PK thought he was being watched closely before, it's nothing like he's going to get by signing that contract ... heard this stuff on Toronto and Ottawa radio ... you know ... those teams that haven't shown a lot of progress so far this year ... I find that Ottawa radio likes taking credit for making our team bigger ... only Bergevin made it clear that he wanted the team to get bigger just as soon as he took over the reigns ... Ottawa has made some very questionable moves of late and I can't see how those moves have improved their team ... but you don't hear the Montreal media dwelling on it ... there's actually something to talk about in Montreal these days ... not so much in Toronto, Ottawa or ... Long Island ...
Cheers.
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Post by UberCranky on Aug 4, 2014 14:58:59 GMT -5
My wife says almost the same thing.......almost.... CHeaters gonna get CHopped.
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Post by HFTO on Aug 4, 2014 15:26:00 GMT -5
I was not happy Friday but rejoicing Saturday....at the same time the Habs have to let PK be PK for them to reap the full benefits of this big contract. PK is prone to mistakes but so are all the top guys but if they find the right partner and stop scolding him at every turn they can reap the best of both worlds ...if they just want a stay at home 50 pt guy well then they are wasting money. Going to be interesting to see how MT and PK co exist with their new found security....hope they don't mess it up!
HFTo
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Post by Skilly on Aug 4, 2014 16:39:01 GMT -5
You are going to have to show me proof that they produced when together .... I combed through some stats sites, they scored 4 goals (ES+SH) all year. Two when they had Briere on the line, and two when they had Prust on the line. They also had 4 scored against, 2 for each line. (They played about 118 minutes together all year) In comparison, the Vanek-Desharnais-Pacioretty line played 190 minutes and scored 16. They had shifts together in the playoffs each of the last two years and showed strong chemistry. It's all the proof I need to say that they should be given the chance to play together this season. Last two years? Eller played 1 game in 2013 playoffs. All even strength time was with Galchenyuk and Gallagher. They did very well in the 2014 playoffs, no matter who they were paired with ... Weise, Gionta, Vanek ... But was that the norm? Will it continue? They were both invisible during the regular season, even when together. Yeah, it's worth a shot, but I'm with 17 when it comes to Bourque .... I would not count on him producing at his playoff clip
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Post by jkr on Aug 4, 2014 17:39:13 GMT -5
So many haters commenting in cyberspace.....i.e. "Bergevin got hosed by paying more ($9 million/year) than Subban was asking ($8.5 million/year)." What they don't seem to grasp is that Subban's $8.5 figure was a high-ask for the arbitration award. His starting figure for a multi-year deal was no doubt more than $9 million, seeing as he would give up some UFA years. Win for both camps. And, as has been mentioned on this board, Subban would've gotten 8 figures as a UFA in a few years (or even via trade now) on other teams desperate to fill seats. He's THAT kind of player. And Bergevin knows it. Good job on all sides....mostly for getting it done before the media had time to further assassinate Subban's character/Bergevin's business savvy. CHaters gonna CHate. With the contracts Nonis hands out, Leafs fans should just go away. 7x7 for Phaneuf; 8x8 for Kessel; & then there's Clarkson
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Post by franko on Aug 4, 2014 19:06:26 GMT -5
With the contracts Nonis hands out, Leafs fans should just go away. 7x7 for Phaneuf; 8x8 for Kessel; & then there's Clarkson when Leaf fans hear "voice of reason" they think the voice of raisins
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 5, 2014 19:21:26 GMT -5
With the contracts Nonis hands out, Leafs fans should just go away. 7x7 for Phaneuf; 8x8 for Kessel; & then there's Clarkson when Leaf fans hear "voice of reason" they think the voice of raisins So long as they keep hearing those voices ... I remember a radio show I was listening on the road ... the host was ripping the Leaf defence corps a new arse ... he said that Phaneuf was their best defenceman and that there were no "PK Subbans" waiting in the system to crack the lineup ... was he ever miffed ... before Jake Gardiner picked up his game (during that late-season slide) Phaneuf was their best d-man ... I'll give credit to Gauthier, he always knew talent ... McDonagh, Pacioretty and Subban ... 1-2-3 in our selections ... I honestly do think PK is good for, at least, another Norris, but I really do hope McDonagh earns one ... the Leafs drafted a pretty talented kid this year ... it's a start but he isn't Subban ... Cheers.
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Post by christrpn on Aug 6, 2014 18:03:36 GMT -5
So PK was signed to a two yr $5.75M Bridge deal (Which a lot of people thought it was a bad idea) Now Signed subban to a 8yr $72M long term deal (which some people thought is overpayment and there should have been a longer deal done 2 yrs ago.) Ultimately we'll have Subban for 10yrs at $77.75M 10yrs at $7.775M. In my opinion, thats a steal If Bergevin had to give Subban 7.75 million two years ago he would have been lynched. A defenseman, with NO hardware, with all kinds of holes and questions in his game, coming off an ELC .... And signing him to THE highest paid defenseman back then.?? Two years ago, we could have signed him long term to less than what Karlsson, the reigning Norris trophy , was given .... 5.5 million to 6 million. Let's not kid ourselves, the board was split on giving him big bucks cause he proved nothing. But the big bucks were about 2 million a season less than the 7.75 calculation over ten years. For only twp yrs though. If he would have signed at $5.5M for 6Yrs, How much would he be worth in 4yr? The savings here seem astronomical on the long run. This is all, of course, depending on Subban being everything we know he can be, that is an HOF defensman. Now, the averaage says for the first two yrs(bridge yrs) he's paid $2M more than you think he would have gotten, but the next 8yrs $2M less than he's getting. I don't see any scenario where Subban excels where we would save more money.
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