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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 2, 2014 21:34:19 GMT -5
... or is that post mortem ... the better team won tonight ...
Cheers.
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Post by jkr on Nov 2, 2014 21:41:21 GMT -5
Widely outshot through 2. Galchenyuk -4. They score the early goal in the 3rd. Instead of gaining momentum, they just cave. And I don't care if Bourque scored a meaningless goal. He needs to sit.
Subban on the ice for 4 goals. He pushed hard for the big contract & is now playing like crap. He 's supposed to be the best player. Time he stopped talking about being better & actually doing it. He's got the A and the big deal. Start leading the team.
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Post by flowerpower on Nov 2, 2014 21:45:24 GMT -5
Too many overpaid soft players on this team.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 2, 2014 22:02:05 GMT -5
That was awful. Was told that PK, Carey, PA, and a bunch of other Habs were out partying in Vanc Thursday night. Seems like they all still had a hangover. Or did they just play down to Bourque's level. I suppose the good news is that Sekac and Bourni will now get in. Sekac wil score a few and MT will be called a genius Likely candidates to sit: Bourque, Moen, Eller. Thought Prust had a horrible game not alone.. Actually think he plays better when on a top 3 line.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 2, 2014 22:10:31 GMT -5
True story....
I worked as a production manager and did my job well. Invariably, I screwed up and got hell for it. In my defense, I pointed to my record......and got royally whacked.
Who cares what you did yesterday, today is today and you FAILED. TOMORROW YOU Will be judged what you did TODAY. What are you going to do about it?
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So I say, who cares about our record. We pooched it...and we pooched it BAD.
Our 9 million dollar emperor is naked......
We start slowly in almost all the games...
We have the whackiest stats of the top teams that point more to horseshoes the elite play.....
We have better players in the stand but our MThead proves his moniker....
Sooooo......
Now what?
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Post by Marvin on Nov 2, 2014 22:11:55 GMT -5
Why do fans and media feel the Habs have some divine right to win every game? Everyone just naturally expects them to beat Cgy because…why? Because it's the Flames? As I've mentioned before, I live in Cgy and see many of the Flames' games. They will outwork just about any team, and even with major injuries, they play really hard. The Habs certainly didn't give them any respect and while I’m surprised by the final score, I'm not surprised that Cgy won.
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Post by Bones on Nov 2, 2014 22:19:34 GMT -5
Why do fans and media feel the Habs have some divine right to win every game? Everyone just naturally expects them to beat Cgy because…why? Because it's the Flames? As I've mentioned before, I live in Cgy and see many of the Flames' games. They will outwork just about any team, and even with major injuries, they play really hard. The Habs certainly didn't give them any respect and while I’m surprised by the final score, I'm not surprised that Cgy won. That's all true Marvin, but I don't doubt that even the Sabres beat us tonight with our effort, that's the problem. Lack of respect for their opponents, their own jerseys and occupation tonight. That just wont do.
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Post by franko on Nov 2, 2014 23:22:13 GMT -5
Why do fans and media feel the Habs have some divine right to win every game? don't think there is a divine right to win every game. think there is an expectation they'll play hard every game. if we have a Rodney Dangerfield on the team we also have a why do they play so hard? and why don't the Habs? and if it's because the Habs think they have a divine right to win, why isn't "someone" correcting that thought . . . as well as the poor way they come out every game? when Bones says something like I don't doubt that even the Sabres beat us tonight with our effort you know we're in trouble!
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Post by GNick99 on Nov 2, 2014 23:27:55 GMT -5
Habs been riding luck early this season, with all these comeback and overtime wins. Has to start to balance out further in season we go. Club been relatively healthy and bounces on ice been going our way. Pythagorean or goal differential generally better measure of a team, we more a 6-5 club instead of 8-3.
On positive side, under Therrein team usually responds well immediately following a sound beating .ie Tampa game.
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Post by Disp on Nov 3, 2014 4:02:05 GMT -5
I think these guys have confused being patient with going through the motions. Have to fight for pucks and possession. Teams aren't going to just give it to you. Looked like a bunch of puck-watching asshats last night. Reminds me of a Florida game awhile back.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 3, 2014 8:42:10 GMT -5
didn't watch the game... glad I didn't.... As I said in another thread, I think it's time for MB to find out what is going on.... there is something happening. I don't know if they have tuned MT out or they think they can put in a little effort and have other teams roll over, but something is wrong.
I heard MTs press conference last night, it lasted about 2 minutes, his answers were short and to the point... he was pissed. It will be interesting to see what they do in practice, will they continue practices the way they have, will he bag skate them?
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Post by blny on Nov 3, 2014 8:48:16 GMT -5
It's not about divine right to win every game, for me. It's about compete levels. Losing 6-2 at home, and a consistently listless starts to games, is not good. If they play their hardest and lose 3-2, for example, I can live with that. They're not playing their best, and they're not competing hard enough.
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Post by franko on Nov 3, 2014 9:10:44 GMT -5
Chicago is going to be none to happy coming in: lost to WPG, lost to TO, barely beat SENS in shootout, lost to the DUCKS, barely beat the SENS, lost to ST LO, lost to NASH . . . either they're not very good or they have been "just bad enough"; regardless they're going to be ready . . . we'd better be!
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 3, 2014 9:22:46 GMT -5
Chicago is going to be none to happy coming in: lost to WPG, lost to TO, barely beat SENS in shootout, lost to the DUCKS, barely beat the SENS, lost to ST LO, lost to NASH . . . either they're not very good or they have been "just bad enough"; regardless they're going to be ready . . . we'd better be! And you know babs will get the breaks from the refs so you know we will spend a lot of time on the pk.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2014 9:51:30 GMT -5
Too many overpaid soft players on this team. Maybe we're just seeing the end of October hockey ... I'll tip my hat to Calgary ... they had us on our heels right from the start ... they looked younger and faster than we did ... very organized when in the offensive zone ... I thought we looked disorganized and I attibute most of that to the effort the Flames put out ... Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 3, 2014 10:52:52 GMT -5
The past 4 games.
0-11 on the PP.
21 TSH. Momentum killer.
Only 5 regulation goals scored.
Without Price's stellar play, we'd no doubt be 0-4-0 instead of 1-2-1.
Interesting that it all came crashing down against Western Conf. opponents.
Do we save our emotion for the East?
Is our coaching staff unable to prepare for Western teams?
I guess we'll find out against a struggling Chicago team that has more talent that we have at every position, save goaltending.
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Post by Marvin on Nov 3, 2014 12:04:31 GMT -5
Any given night, any team can win. Case in point last night: Cgy beats Mtl, Wpg beats Chi, Buf beats Det, and Car beats LA.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 3, 2014 12:23:55 GMT -5
Right, Marvin….and the better teams usually catch on to that fact and smarten up.
The problem is when it becomes a pattern where lesser teams keep beating you/giving you trouble…bad starts, lack of discipline, etc.
And that's where we are right now.
MT, post-game… "In this league, when you're not ready to compete, you have no chance."
I'm sure he's telling the troops that very message with much more oomph behind it.
But, that's all just talk if he's not doing everything within his power. Icing the best line-ups, benching/disciplining properly, ice time allocation, in-game strategies, etc.
If he isn't, then the players are going to start looking at him sideways and tuning him out…and that becomes MB's problem.
If he IS doing the right things, then it rests on the attitudes of certain players….and that's also MB's problem.
I have confidence that MB is on top of this situation.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2014 12:32:45 GMT -5
Any given night, any team can win. Case in point last night: Cgy beats Mtl, Wpg beats Chi, Buf beats Det, and Car beats LA. Makes it difficult to submit any Pro Line bets ... might as well just use a dart board ... same as the NFL, too ... Cheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2014 12:39:10 GMT -5
Chicago is going to be none to happy coming in: lost to WPG, lost to TO, barely beat SENS in shootout, lost to the DUCKS, barely beat the SENS, lost to ST LO, lost to NASH . . . either they're not very good or they have been "just bad enough"; regardless they're going to be ready . . . we'd better be! Yeah, what's up with Chicago ... I was saying earlier that Calgary was capable of taking us out, but never expected this rout ... it's like les gars didn't know what to do at some points in the game ... Chicago will eventually turn it around, I suspect, but I'd prefer they did that against another team, not ours ... Cheers.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 3, 2014 13:29:10 GMT -5
From Hockey I/O linkDoesn't look like Bournival or Sekac are going to see any ice time in the near future. A fast team like the Hawks and it looks like neither are playing?
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Post by blny on Nov 3, 2014 14:15:04 GMT -5
Been sorta counting down the days until MT put Markov and Subban back together. IMO, Subban and Emelin just weren't working well together.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 3, 2014 14:18:23 GMT -5
MT did say in his post-practice conference that it was "possible" that there could be a lineup change for tomorrow's game against Chicago. At the same time, he has both Bournival and Sekac as extras in today's practice. Not exactly the most nimble and adaptable coach that we have ever had.
This is not just one bad game for me, they are in a mini slump because they have had some pretty uninspired to average play since the start of their Western swing in Edmonton, four games ago.
Apparently Knuckles Nilan said on 690 this morning that MT is keeping Sekac and Bournival out of the lineup because they are the easiest to do so, and not rock the boat with any of the vets. There may be something there, but the team needs a little kick start and the obvious choice is to mix up the lineup a bit. Let the hungry guys that just want to prove themselves get some game time. What can it hurt? Have Almost Bork and Moen really been that impressive that they can keep their lineup spots? I would also like to see some games where both Beau and Tinordi get to play, and give Weaver and/or Gilbert the odd night off. I know, crazy talk!!
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 3, 2014 14:25:03 GMT -5
Apparently Knuckles Nilan said on 690 this morning that MT is keeping Sekac and Bournival out of the lineup because they are the easiest to do so, and not rock the boat with any of the vets. Not rock the boat with any vets... That is ludicrous IMO. As a coach you play to win and you put in the players that are best suited to win a game for you. I don't understand MTs decisions sometimes.
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Post by blny on Nov 3, 2014 14:26:38 GMT -5
Apparently Knuckles Nilan said on 690 this morning that MT is keeping Sekac and Bournival out of the lineup because they are the easiest to do so, and not rock the boat with any of the vets. Not rock the boat with any vets... That is ludicrous IMO. As a coach you play to win and you put in the players that are best suited to win a game for you. I don't understand MTs decisions sometimes. Agree completely WD. The boat needs a good capsizing imo. Frig just giving it a rock.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 3, 2014 14:50:05 GMT -5
I'll ask the question again, and keep in mind I think DD gives it all he's got. He's a warrior. And he's not the only problem by a long shot.
But, in the big picture, how far are we gonna go with the smallest #1 centre in the league who always see other teams' best D? You knock Desharnais off his game (which isn't difficult, if you've been watching lately), that line is done.
Who was our last big, bona fide NHL #1 centre? Damphousse, I believe. 16 years ago.
No wonder MB says we're not yet an elite team.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 3, 2014 15:09:46 GMT -5
To elaborate on a couple of points made above:
1: Like NWT I am concerned about the trend in the lack of effort and lack of goal scoring the last 4 games. Yeah, some games have been sort of ok (Edmonton and Vancouver) from an effort standpoint, but hardly inspiring. Not sure what that is all about and we have to admit that while the lack of effort was evident the full games against Calgary, it's also shown up in a period or two in other games.
2: Many coaches subscribe to the practice of giving vets the benefit of the doubt, to the detriment of the younger kids. I agree with Nilan and think that MT is taking the easy way out with his line-up. A vet is going to squawk, a rookie or near rookie, is not, especially Bournival who would jump into a burning pit if asked to do so. So why have the headache of a Bourque or Moen knocking on your door complaining, when you can avoid it by playing them? It's normal human nature. That practice is followed less by good leaders, who understand that while it's a short term saving, it's a long term cancer. There's a term "eat the frog" that is a good one to follow in life. Not literally, silly! There wouldn't be any frogs left. Do the most distasteful job of the day at the very beginning. Get it out of the way. After that, everything else seems easy. Leave that distasteful job and it lingers, and lingers, and grates at you. And the more it does, the less you want to tackle it. Does that sound like a trap Therrien may have fallen into? I think it's obvious to anyone but a turnip that Sekac and Bournival would be a great change from Bourque and Moen or even Eller for a game. It's a surprise to me (though it shouldn't be at all) that is hasn't happened yet. Sigh.
And now for something completely different (almost).
Has anyone else noticed that Brendan Gallagher has totally gone dry? I noticed this a couple of games ago and in a write-up yesterday, it was noted that since his 3 points against Boston, he hasn't scored a single point. What I have noticed is that he's not varying his tactics, so people may be catching on. For example, against Edmonton I think he went wide on Marincin and was taken out of the play. Why not go inside once or twice? I believe I've seen him do that in the past, so vary it up, Brendan. Don't make it easy for opponents to guess what you're going to do. Don't go to the net a few times. Fake that way and go higher, and take a shot. Dmen have to be thinking he's always going for the goalie. Right? Anyway, it's another topic of discussion and it's coincidental with our scoring woes.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2014 15:15:34 GMT -5
I'll ask the question again, and keep in mind I think DD gives it all he's got. He's a warrior. And he's not the only problem by a long shot. But, in the big picture, how far are we gonna go with the smallest #1 centre in the league who always see other teams' best D? You knock Desharnais off his game (which isn't difficult, if you've been watching lately), that line is done. Who was our last big, bona fide NHL #1 centre? Damphousse, I believe. 16 years ago. No wonder MB says we're not yet an elite team. At his peak, Damphousse might have been the 2nd-best Frankophone centre in the league behind Lemieux (I read this years ago and it comes from Sather who was trying to get as much as he could out of Montreal) ... certainly one of the best centres anyway ... I thought about moving DD here and there through the summer and, again, very recently ... he sees the ice arguably better than anyone on the team ... it's that size factor, though ... will Bergevin move him? ... dunno, but I was surprised when he found a taker for Briere ... that said, though, DD's cap hit is in the range Bergevin likes targeting in order to free up space ... I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you what Bergevin would do, but I suspect he'd move DD if the return was right ... would like to have a big no.1 centre, but he's currently playing on the wing ... Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 3, 2014 18:17:36 GMT -5
Right Dis! There's another problem. If the plan is for Galchenyuk to take over the #1 centre role on a contending team, he's certainly not being groomed for it.
By waiting/doing nothing, we're burning prime years of our core.
When will AGal be ready to assume the #1 C role at this rate? 3 or 4 years. And who, other than Eller is in the system who will also be ready at centre?
Pleks will be pretty much done at that point, in terms of being a key element.
We just have to be confident that MB is the right architect.
If MT is hindering progress…then action should be taken.
If the problem is some of our players….same thing.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 4, 2014 9:54:21 GMT -5
MT up to his old tricks ... put a guy in his natural position for one game, and if it doesn't work, immediately split it up. This pales in comparison to his other trick of having a line that is clicking on all cylinders and then splitting them up to get a top six guy jump strarted. What a Maroon!
Personally, I think the boat has sailed on developing Galchenyuk as a center. When is the last time he played there regularly? Probably Sarnia, over 3-4 years ago? Just as well to continue his development as a winger now. I really dont think it is that easy for him to adjust, especially getting use to the speed, and the longer zone coverages. I want him at center, but it does us no good unless he is left there to develop. AND the only way to do it is to shed a center ... and when I look at the players we have, the logical odd man out is Desharnais.
Eller can play third line while Pleky is the second liner and make the jumpt o second line when PLeky has outlived his usefulness. Desharnais can not do third line duty and its a waste to dump Plekanec on the third line just to have Desharnais on the second line, who doesnt give you anymore there than Plekanec can provide you.
The problem however, is that the lines make absolutely no sense if you NOW put Galchenyuk at center. Who replaces Galchenyuk on the wing? Desharnais, Plekanec, and Eller all virtually provide you nothing on the wing. So to develop Galchenyuk where we want him, we have to shed a center and add a top six winger ... thats tres dificile. So we will have to live with our faults at center for now.
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