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Post by CentreHice on Nov 4, 2014 22:06:40 GMT -5
Where to start? We've apparently used up all our comeback vouchers.
Behind the bench? Best lineups not iced. PP is horrendous.
Time for MB to move out some passengers?
These past 5 games have felt like 2002-03 all over again....when Therrien was fired mid-season.
Bulis....Bulis....anyone?
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Post by Marvin on Nov 4, 2014 22:11:09 GMT -5
Where to start? We've apparently used up all our comeback vouchers. Behind the bench? Best lineups not iced. PP is horrendous. Time for MB to move out some passengers? These past 5 games have felt like 2002-03 all over again....when Therrien was fired mid-season. Bulis....Bulis....anyone? And even with this bad stretch, they still have a better record (8-4-1) than at the same point last year (8-5).
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Post by franko on Nov 4, 2014 22:12:07 GMT -5
Bourque and Malholtra out on the PP.
'Nuff said.
Oh . . . Bourque -3, 0 shots
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 4, 2014 22:20:35 GMT -5
The Habs fans should file a complaint in the Human Rights board.....for torture.
I saw 2/3 of the game and we were pathetic across the board. Nothing positive to say.....PERIOD.
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Post by franko on Nov 4, 2014 22:24:34 GMT -5
good thing MB doesn't sit behind the players bench or we may have seen another goaltender say "enough is enough"
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Post by blny on Nov 4, 2014 22:41:34 GMT -5
The bubble has burst. They're a listless bunch and making the other teams look good. I had hopes in the first. They were generating chances and skating well.
The PP is a joke. If Lacroix is responsible for it, someone will have to enlighten me as to how a goon becomes a coach for a unit that's supposed to score. I'd be taking a page from the Bruins. Dress Tinordi, put him in the crease/slot like Chara, and just bomb pucks from everywhere. But, you have to get the puck in the zone first.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 4, 2014 22:49:16 GMT -5
Wrong time to be playing Buffalo ... just sayin' ...
Cheers ...
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Post by seventeen on Nov 4, 2014 23:04:22 GMT -5
That would be embarrassing.
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Post by Anardil1 on Nov 4, 2014 23:12:19 GMT -5
Silver lining? If this keeps up for much longer, we can discuss being part of the McDavid sweepstakes. How does this sound? Lose with honour for Connor?
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Post by seventeen on Nov 4, 2014 23:44:31 GMT -5
I know that the easiest criticism can be directed at the coach and one has to be careful to avoid that especially, like Alain Vigneault years ago, when they have little to work with. I don't think that's the case with Therrien today. He has a lot of depth. He has a Norris Trophy winner and another defenseman who isn't far off that level of quality. HE has one of the more exciting, talented young players in the league, and the best goalie in the world. I could go on, but you get the drift. We are complaining about them right now because of the effort level, not the talent level.
So what's the problem? Why won't the guys give it a good effort? I don't know, but it can't be a physical issue, it's a mental one. Geeze, was Gerrard Gallant that good a buffer between MT and the players? Why does he continue to not ice the best line-up? Why does he sit players who have proved they belong (Tinordi) while loyally playing other guys who have proven they don't (take your pick of non-performers). These are reasonable questions and have to be going through Berg's mind. I don't think Therrien's in an danger of being fired, but he surely has the seat warmers on high.
He dresses Bournival and then plays him for 8 minutes, on a checking line. Not how I'd have used him. How bout you? Berg didn't sign Sekac to sit in the press box. Would you dress him? The questions go on, but the answers aren't forthcoming.
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Post by PTH on Nov 5, 2014 0:14:32 GMT -5
All I know is that right now, I'm pissed at Gorges for not going to Toronto, since we'd have Franson instead of Gilbert, and really, I can't stand Gilbert. I cringe whenever he's on the ice.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 5, 2014 0:24:33 GMT -5
The first period wasn't bad but the rest was horrible. Must be something in the drinking water because to a man they have now played 2 very bad games. As I said after the Calgary loss, where are BGal and PK. They always bring energy but now nothing.
PK was much better 3 years ago. When was the last time he did a rush from behind our net into the opposing zone? Do you remember the excitement when he would wind 'er up. Is this MT's doing? Or has all the fame and now $$$ gone to PK's head? I'm not singling him out as they have all been awful, but one could always count on him to at least give an effort and not surrender. They all packed it in pretty early tonight.
Having said all that it is hard to see how MT prefers Moen over Bourni. Bourni skates like the wind as is amazing on the forecheck and the backcheck. The puck will start going on for him soon. All we can hope with Moen is that the puck will go in OFF him in some game.
Please get Sekac in there. There are so many candidates to take out it doesn't matter to me whom. Bourque is the obvious candidate but Prust (worst hockey as a Hab the last 5 games), Eller, or even Wiess. I'd be happy with putting Sekac with Max and DD. But get him in there. And as 17 says, let Bourni and Sekac play more than a few minutes!
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 5, 2014 6:22:17 GMT -5
I expect another loss tonight... a big one Mt will go with his usual lines put out in the usual situations but expect a different result.
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Post by franko on Nov 5, 2014 6:49:08 GMT -5
outscored 18-5 since our last regulation win. or 1 SO win in our last 5 games. or . . .
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 5, 2014 7:27:49 GMT -5
Was Gallant that important to this team and this group of players?
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Post by jkr on Nov 5, 2014 7:29:37 GMT -5
All I know is that right now, I'm pissed at Gorges for not going to Toronto, since we'd have Franson instead of Gilbert, and really, I can't stand Gilbert. I cringe whenever he's on the ice. Same here. He's an unforced error waiting to happen. And there's one more season left on his deal. I don't remember the timing. Was Gilbert signed after the Gorges deal fell through?
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Post by jkr on Nov 5, 2014 7:31:04 GMT -5
I expect another loss tonight... a big one Mt will go with his usual lines put out in the usual situations but expect a different result. I don't expect a loss but winning against Buffalo is meaningless now. It's not an indication of anything positive.
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Post by jkr on Nov 5, 2014 8:18:49 GMT -5
BTW - I wanted to ask if any of the users of the Rogers French language package ( the $60.00 Habs/Sens deal) had a problem last night. I missed the first 3-4 minutes of the game because Rogers was broadcasting RDSInfo instead of RDS. I was about to call when the game magically appeared - in progress.
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Post by blny on Nov 5, 2014 8:45:27 GMT -5
All I know is that right now, I'm pissed at Gorges for not going to Toronto, since we'd have Franson instead of Gilbert, and really, I can't stand Gilbert. I cringe whenever he's on the ice. Same here. He's an unforced error waiting to happen. And there's one more season left on his deal. I don't remember the timing. Was Gilbert signed after the Gorges deal fell through? After. He hasn't been great, but imo he's not been the worst. Franson might be more physical, but imo he's not appreciably better overall. Some of the penalties against are just ridiculous. The call on Weaver, for example. Versteeg pretty well blindsides him - after diving himself on an attempted hit in the corner - and Weaver gets a penalty for falling? Nonsense. I don't know if Gallant was a buffer or not, but he was certainly the creative and driving force behind the power play. Seriously, who could possibly think a goon is a good choice for a power play coach? 11 goals and 379PIM in 188 NHL games over a 10 year period does not make for a power play coach. Like Therrien's overall coaching method, there's no sense that they can make an in game adaptation to what the opposition is doing. Square peg in round hole until it fits. I don't see things getting bad enough to expect a run for McDavid, but they'd better right the ship. Forget the record overall. They haven't played well for the most part this month, and bad starts to games have turned into bad games.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 5, 2014 8:54:00 GMT -5
Full disclosure ... I didnt see the game. So if I am talking out me arse here, let me know.
I see from the game sheet that the Habs were on the PP for 6:51. PK Subban was on the ice for 6:39 of that PP. I've said it once, and I'll keep repeating myself over and over ... but why do we insist on having PK play the entire 2:00 of our PPs , especially if they are not working?? I read the game thread, and I saw that we recorded ONE shot on net on the PPs!! Is that true? OK , I just checked ... we had 2 shots on net. (Parenteau). That's pathetic!!!
Again, since I didn't see the game ... were they trying to set up PK all the time again?? Cause that strategy will not work, not enough to give us a dangerous powerplay. The stats show that PK had one shot on net (on the PP) out of 5 shots directed towards the net. If PK is the weapon we are going to use until we are blue in the face, don't ya think that weapon should get more on net??? A missed shot on the PP is just as bad as a giveaway usually. I'm not saying we don't use PK on the PP, but geeez-louise , he is the constant on the putrid PP. Rest him, use other options, have him play a normal PP shift, control the puck down low .... anything
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Post by habernac on Nov 5, 2014 9:19:10 GMT -5
Price is the only reason this team wasn't get beaten like this earlier. Now even he's lost his mojo. Too many passengers. Bourque needs to go to the ECHL team. Get Sekac and Bournival out there. Bench Gilbert for Tinordi.
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Post by Polarice on Nov 5, 2014 9:44:39 GMT -5
The first 3 goals were tip in's....to be honest I wasn't paying attention for the last 2. I'm not sure what the issue is on the power play.....just shoot the puck and gather up the rebounds. It's not rocket science.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 5, 2014 9:55:52 GMT -5
Was Gallant that important to this team and this group of players? Willie, I thought we lost a big piece of the puzzle when Gallant left ... I don't know if the slump has anything to do with his departure, but he was a character guy even as a player and you just don't replace a guy like that ... Gallant had the kind of character Bergevin keeps saying he wants in Montreal and I don't you don't just replace guys like him ... good luck to him ... he was a big piece of the equation in Montreal (I thought, anyway) ... Cheers.
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Post by 24in93 on Nov 5, 2014 10:09:41 GMT -5
BTW - I wanted to ask if any of the users of the Rogers French language package ( the $60.00 Habs/Sens deal) had a problem last night. I missed the first 3-4 minutes of the game because Rogers was broadcasting RDSInfo instead of RDS. I was about to call when the game magically appeared - in progress. This happened to me last week but on Bell Fibe. They had the Sens game on and it went to OT/SO which overlapped the Habs later game. Instead of lining up the Habs on the other channel to avoid this. It then took a while after the Sens game for them to switch it over. Missed half of the first period. Although, I'm now regretting spending extra the way this team has been playing. Last night was pitiful.
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Post by Psycorp on Nov 5, 2014 10:16:42 GMT -5
Was Gallant that important to this team and this group of players? Willie, I thought we lost a big piece of the puzzle when Gallant left ... I don't know if the slump has anything to do with his departure, but he was a character guy even as a player and you just don't replace a guy like that ... Gallant with his strategic acumen, made the habs coaching staff above average in the NHL. With him gone, the rest are more of a "Rah Rah" type of coaching staff who cannot adapt.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 5, 2014 10:28:06 GMT -5
In watching 24ch last year Gallant was very involved, from talking to the players in the room to talking to them on the bench.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 5, 2014 10:36:22 GMT -5
In watching 24ch last year Gallant was very involved, from talking to the players in the room to talking to them on the bench. I don't like quoting myself, but when Gallant was announced as the Panthers' head coach, I posted the following understatement. Congrats to Gerard! I think we just might miss him. Sure would like to ask him about working with Therrien. He was the calming force, the strategist, the mind behind the PP.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 5, 2014 10:55:34 GMT -5
Without a strong PP, the Habs will NOT make the playoffs. That's the sad truth. We did not replace Thomas Vanek, and the only way our player compensate for that production is to score in bunches on the PP ... its not happening.
The standings show us still atop the Conference, which I suppose, is a miracle. But this last week, we have been blown out of the water, a few times too many, enough to make that Tampa game no longer feel like the aberration. As of today, we have 28 goals for, 40 goals against. Remember all those paths to 240 goals we outlined ... 13 games into the season we are on pace for 177 goals. Who had that in the pool??? All signs pointed to us needing 40+ goals from the defense to reach that mark ... well they arent doing too bad really (on pace for 32, but to keep that pace we need 20 from Subban, 6 from Markov and 6 from Gilbert. This of course means that our forwards are on pace for 145 goals. Some predictions had 70 goals from both our top two lines.
So we sit in 28th spot with an 8.1% effective PP. And we don't get much PP time ... we are 26th in the league in PP time. (62:29)
Subban has been pretty much ineffective on the PP ... 1 point (a goal) in 53:10 of PP time. He has 13 of his 25 shots while on the PP. His shot on goal last night, was his first shot on goal in three games; not just a PP shot, but any shot. Of PKs 25 shots, 19 of them came in 5 games. He has had 31 shots toward net blocked, and 21 shots he has missed the net. I have to wonder if thats the norm??
Eric Karlsson, has had 56:35 of PP time (Ottawa has had 73:20 PP time). So PK plays 85% of our PP and Karlsson plays 77% of Ottawa's. Karlsson has 5 PP points.
Karlsson in 11 games (PK has 13 games) has 45 shots on net, 26 were blockes, and 20 missed the target.
So I guess the blocked shots and the shots wide are not really outside the norm, but his shots on net are .... 1.9 shots on net per game is not going to cut it from your star defenseman.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 5, 2014 11:17:09 GMT -5
It's always difficult to make an accurate assessment without good information. If you're privy to stuff 'behind the scenes' you can probably make a very good assessment. All we can do is look at results and maybe at player reactions. Doc has mentioned before that Therrien is arrogant. Since I don't have an arrogance meter, I can only judge from what I can see.
Few if any adjustments on the PP Playing inept players as if it was a religious cause Not dressing guys who might solve obvious problems
Could be arrogance. Could be stupidity, but one doesn't become an NHL coach by being stupid.
Another factor I think is important in good leadership is surrounding yourself with quality people. That's why I've thought Berg has done a good job in most cases. At least from what I've read about people like Dudley, Timmins, Carriere and Mellanby all have a good track record or had good reviews from announcers, journalists etc. (If you can count on journalists etc.)
Therrien has Daigneault, Lacroix, Jodoin, Mario Leblanc and Waite. Waite, I think, can be praised. I don't know enough about Jodoin, Leblance or Lacroix. Daigneault supposedly had good reviews out of NY, but the way we play 2 on 1's has me wondering. A second aspect to good leadership is "Does the leader listen to his staff?". That one I definitely don't know.
If anyone has any insights into the 'inner circle' it would really help us a lot in judging performance. Is it the players? Is it the coaches? Is it management? What we do know for sure is:
Adjustments don't happen quickly and in the case of the PP, at all. DD, Patches, Gally or Parenteau, Markov and PK. Over and over and over. Oh wait, there's a change...Bourque and Prust.
Judgment - continuing to play Bourque is dumbfounding. Not upping Galchy's minutes to 20 per game is, frankly, stupid. Not dressing Sekac after a decent start to his season is inexplicable. The kid is responsible defensively and creative offensively. Why would you not play him?
If Therrien has good reasons, I'd sure appreciate hearing them, but until then, one has to question whether he should be the coach of the Habs. The above concerns aren't rocket science. Make some moves, Michel.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 5, 2014 11:32:07 GMT -5
Willie, I thought we lost a big piece of the puzzle when Gallant left ... I don't know if the slump has anything to do with his departure, but he was a character guy even as a player and you just don't replace a guy like that ... Gallant with his strategic acumen, made the habs coaching staff above average in the NHL. With him gone, the rest are more of a "Rah Rah" type of coaching staff who cannot adapt. I thought the same way about Kirk Muller ... he seemed to be the main buffer between Jacques Martin and the players ... and, like Gallant, Muller was a leader on the ice, too ... we lost a lot of leadership when Josh Gorges was traded ... he was captain of his junior team and when it came down to selecting a captain in Montreal, his name was mentioned quite a bit mainly because he commanded a lot of respect from his peers ... the new leadership is being tested now and I'm interested in seeing just how long it takes for them to take the team by the short-and-curlys and sort this out ... there will be more times like this in the future, so it's important to develop that leadership now ... they'll come out of this eventually ... would be nice to hear the media flogging "the red-hot Montreal Canadiens, yada, yada, yada" going into the Christmas break ... Cheers.
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