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Post by UberCranky on Nov 21, 2014 21:36:42 GMT -5
I was trying to figure out if there was a method to the madness besides getting rid of contracts....
What do we need on defense? More puck movement and tougher defense. The problem is we got two kids that give us both, but also bring their rookie mistakes with them and concerns when the playoff games are on the line. MB went out to fill in those roles with players that to a large extent are "has beens". Allen and Gonchar are 7 years removed from their prime, but in a sheltered environment and short run of the playoffs, those two can go the extra miles. They are gone next year and at that point, there are no more "trial and error". The kids will take over and that's that.
It makes so much sense and given the path, his next move is to get an all around top 6 forward. Hello Stafford. Plus with two major contracts off the books, we can resign him. Also, if allows MB to pay a bit more to acquire him if he is more then a rental.
40 years ago, I could see in Pollock actions a very logical and relentless path.....and so does MB.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 21, 2014 22:09:58 GMT -5
I was trying to figure out if there was a method to the madness besides getting rid of contracts.... What do we need on defense? More puck movement and tougher defense. The problem is we got two kids that give us both, but also bring their rookie mistakes with them and concerns when the playoff games are on the line. MB went out to fill in those roles with players that to a large extent are "has beens". Allen and Gonchar are 7 years removed from their prime, but in a sheltered environment and short run of the playoffs, those two can go the extra miles. They are gone next year and at that point, there are no more "trial and error". The kids will take over and that's that. It makes so much sense and given the path, his next move is to get an all around top 6 forward. Hello Stafford. Plus with two major contracts off the books, we can resign him. Also, if allows MB to pay a bit more to acquire him if he is more then a rental. 40 years ago, I could see in Pollock actions a very logical and relentless path.....and so does MB. I agree. I think Bergevin has a very definite plan, and he has set himself very nicely for not only this year, but next year as well. Even if the cap stays the same (and I still don't think it will) he is still in very good position to add a $6-8 million winger/forward. Yeah, that much. I played with the capgeek numbers, and it's not all that hard/unrealistic to do. Having said that, I think he's aiming for bigger fish than Stafford. While Stafford would be a nice addition that I won't complain about I don't think he's THAT much of an upgrade over what we have. Sure, he can contribute a pretty solid 15-20 goals, but is that really all that much better than any winger we have? I think he's aiming big. I don't know if it's Staal, but I think it's going to be big. In my opinion of course.
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Post by blny on Nov 21, 2014 22:25:50 GMT -5
The free agent market this summer is the dog's breakfast. www.capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2015&team_id=-1&position_id=-1&fa_type_id=2Michalek might be an interesting option on defense. Shoots right. Good size. Shutdown guy. There are no interesting forwards. Some of the cap space he's creating will go to the Gals and their new contracts. Some could go to an upgrade acquired through trade, because it wouldn't appear to be available via free agency. If the Coyotes are out of the playoff picture at the deadline, there will be a long line of people looking at Michalek. He may in fact be one of the bigger fish at the deadline imo. As a free agent, he could work. Things get a little more interesting on the RFA front, but Berg doesn't strike me as the type. CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER CapGeek Armchair GM Roster FORWARDS Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / P-A Parenteau ($4.000m) Alex Galchenyuk ($2.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brendan Gallagher ($2.000m) Jiri Sekac ($0.925m) / Lars Eller ($3.500m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m) Michael Bournival ($0.715m) / Manny Malhotra ($0.850m) / Dale Weise ($1.025m) DEFENSEMEN P.K. Subban ($9.000m) / Andrei Markov ($5.750m) Alexei Emelin ($4.100m) / Zbynek Michalek ($5.000m) Nathan Beaulieu ($0.874m) / Tom Gilbert ($2.800m) Jarred Tinordi ($0.851m) / GOALTENDERS Carey Price ($6.500m) Dustin Tokarski ($0.563m) BONUS OVERAGE $0 ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (estimations for 2015-16) SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,952,125; BONUSES: $425,000 CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $3,047,875
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 21, 2014 22:26:22 GMT -5
Having said that, I think he's aiming for bigger fish than Stafford. While Stafford would be a nice addition that I won't complain about I don't think he's THAT much of an upgrade over what we have. Sure, he can contribute a pretty solid 15-20 goals, but is that really all that much better than any winger we have? I think he's aiming big. I don't know if it's Staal, but I think it's going to be big. In my opinion of course. How big? Bigger then let's say Dolly Parton? Kim Kardashian? Oh wait, wrong forum..... Stafford can take a 5 million bite out of that cap and we still need to resign some of the kids with raises. So I can't see the home run move that needs 8++ numbers. I'm of the opinion that Stafford gives us a lot of all around 200 foot depth that may only cost us a second rounder to acquire. He's FA a the end of the year and in nobodies book is Buffalo a place to play......unless he sells snow blower on the side. Plus he's going to get a lot more quality time playing on the second or third line (is there a difference in Mtl now?) then being the go-to guy in hockey hell. Remember the motto....4 lines of skating fury'balls....... Given his last two moves, given his failure and no re-sign offer with Vanish, his next move is probably the same as the current ones.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 21, 2014 22:38:00 GMT -5
The free agent market this summer is the dog's breakfast. www.capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2015&team_id=-1&position_id=-1&fa_type_id=2Michalek might be an interesting option on defense. Shoots right. Good size. Shutdown guy. There are no interesting forwards. Some of the cap space he's creating will go to the Gals and their new contracts. Some could go to an upgrade acquired through trade, because it wouldn't appear to be available via free agency. If the Coyotes are out of the playoff picture at the deadline, there will be a long line of people looking at Michalek. He may in fact be one of the bigger fish at the deadline imo. As a free agent, he could work. Markov-Subban Emelin-Michalek Tinordi/Bealieu-Gilbert Weaver again? Things get a little more interesting on the RFA front, but Berg doesn't strike me as the type. Why more defense? Not logical. Let's take the current front 12.....Stafford can be top 6. Michalek will be what? Top 6? We got 4 defenseman that are more offensively gifted and three that are meaner. Doan is much more helpful to us then another defenseman.
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Post by blny on Nov 21, 2014 22:46:09 GMT -5
Wait til 2016 to make the big UFA splash. Get Subban to convince his buddy Stamkos to come to Montreal.
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Post by blny on Nov 21, 2014 22:48:37 GMT -5
The free agent market this summer is the dog's breakfast. www.capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2015&team_id=-1&position_id=-1&fa_type_id=2Michalek might be an interesting option on defense. Shoots right. Good size. Shutdown guy. There are no interesting forwards. Some of the cap space he's creating will go to the Gals and their new contracts. Some could go to an upgrade acquired through trade, because it wouldn't appear to be available via free agency. If the Coyotes are out of the playoff picture at the deadline, there will be a long line of people looking at Michalek. He may in fact be one of the bigger fish at the deadline imo. As a free agent, he could work. Markov-Subban Emelin-Michalek Tinordi/Bealieu-Gilbert Weaver again? Things get a little more interesting on the RFA front, but Berg doesn't strike me as the type. Why more defense? Not logical. Let's take the current front 12.....Stafford can be top 6. Michalek will be what? Top 6? We got 4 defenseman that are more offensively gifted and three that are meaner. Doan is much more helpful to us then another defenseman. I'm talking more about next year. Gonchar and Allen will be off the books. Berg clearly isn't convinced that Beau and Tin are ready. That top 4 is darn solid, and is in keeping with left on left and right on right.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 21, 2014 22:57:33 GMT -5
Lots to discuss in the above:
"Allen and Gonchar are 7 years removed from their prime, but in a sheltered environment and short run of the playoffs, those two can go the extra miles. They are gone next year and at that point, there are no more "trial and error". The kids will take over and that's that."
Nice thought. I'm not sold because I seriously wonder if either will have progressed much. Even if they have, the only thing that will matter is if MT believes they're better. I think his stubbornness has no bounds and the only way they'll play is if MB moves every other dman and keeps only 6, of which Beaulieu and Tinordi help make up. We'll have to see.
Drew Stafford would be a decent addition. He hasn't scored 20 goals in a while, but that's been a brutal team the last 2 years. He's a solid, unspectacular piece who would be an asset. I'd prefer a better top 6 guy as I think Stafford's more a third line player than a top 6 winger, but if he's available at low cost, I'd go for it. A second rounder in this year's very strong draft, though, is steep to me.
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Post by franko on Nov 22, 2014 7:55:27 GMT -5
Wait til 2016 to make the big UFA splash. Get Subban to convince his buddy Stamkos to come to Montreal. I hate to say that you sound like you live in Toronto
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Post by blny on Nov 22, 2014 11:54:35 GMT -5
Wait til 2016 to make the big UFA splash. Get Subban to convince his buddy Stamkos to come to Montreal. I hate to say that you sound like you live in Toronto LOL. I know. It's something of a tongue in cheek comment on my part. That said, there was no one on the Leafs roster to persuade PK, and he wasn't UFA. WRT Stamkos, I have no idea how friendly he is with any of the current roster. He is close friends with PK though, and if he goes into next year without an extension ... If I'm PK, I'm trying everything I can to persuade him if it's next season and he as no new contract.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 22, 2014 12:02:55 GMT -5
I'll trade you my ex-wife I no longer want for your ex you no longer want. Don't care much which one is better, just which one I can get rid of soonest.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 22, 2014 12:06:52 GMT -5
I hate to say that you sound like you live in Toronto LOL. I know. It's something of a tongue in cheek comment on my part. That said, there was no one on the Leafs roster to persuade PK, and he wasn't UFA. WRT Stamkos, I have no idea how friendly he is with any of the current roster. He is close friends with PK though, and if he goes into next year without an extension ... If I'm PK, I'm trying everything I can to persuade him if it's next season and he as no new contract. Stamkos wont leave for the same reason st louis and lecavalier didnt leave. Well paid, great weather, no one bothers you.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 22, 2014 12:12:24 GMT -5
LOL. I know. It's something of a tongue in cheek comment on my part. That said, there was no one on the Leafs roster to persuade PK, and he wasn't UFA. WRT Stamkos, I have no idea how friendly he is with any of the current roster. He is close friends with PK though, and if he goes into next year without an extension ... If I'm PK, I'm trying everything I can to persuade him if it's next season and he as no new contract. Stamkos wont leave for the same reason st louis and lecavalier didnt leave. Well paid, great weather, no one bothers you. Add taxes, low cost of mansions with boat docks in the back yard.
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Post by Anardil1 on Nov 22, 2014 12:26:18 GMT -5
Back to the youngens, does this deal make Tinordi or Beaulieu expendable? Not really, because neither can be replaced nest year. Although I will throw gasoline on the fire and say that a deal sending Beaulieu to Edmonton for Yakupov is now Imminent The mysterious EKLUND has been found out! Eklund's a member of Habsrus? My my, how'd you make it past our ever vigilant mods? Anyways, let me be the first to welcome you here!
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Post by stoat on Nov 22, 2014 12:54:42 GMT -5
I'll trade you my ex-wife I no longer want for your ex you no longer want. Don't care much which one is better, just which one I can get rid of soonest. Be careful what you wish for. Comes the trade deadline, what do you end up with? A different warm, stinking body in bed. Besides, there are cap restrictions. P.S. I don't have a spare ex-wife to swap.
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Post by PTH on Nov 22, 2014 13:40:28 GMT -5
If I'm PK, I'm trying everything I can to persuade him if it's next season and he as no new contract. Is anyone aware of a player actually convincing a friend of his, ahead of time, not to re-sign, to then come and join him on another team ? I've heard of players calling up friends to check up on a city before signing there and things like that, but never a single case of it happening ahead of time, like Ovechkin convincing Markov not to sign in Montreal so that he could go to Washington as a UFA, and so on...
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Post by blny on Nov 22, 2014 14:22:33 GMT -5
If I'm PK, I'm trying everything I can to persuade him if it's next season and he as no new contract. Is anyone aware of a player actually convincing a friend of his, ahead of time, not to re-sign, to then come and join him on another team ? I've heard of players calling up friends to check up on a city before signing there and things like that, but never a single case of it happening ahead of time, like Ovechkin convincing Markov not to sign in Montreal so that he could go to Washington as a UFA, and so on... It's never been done publicly, but you can bet quietly it's happened. To my knowledge it's not considered collusion if a player, not in an official capacity of representing his team, says, "you should come play here." I mean, as kids, playing with friends we all dreamed about playing in the NHL WITH our friends and on the same team.
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Post by blny on Nov 22, 2014 14:24:36 GMT -5
LOL. I know. It's something of a tongue in cheek comment on my part. That said, there was no one on the Leafs roster to persuade PK, and he wasn't UFA. WRT Stamkos, I have no idea how friendly he is with any of the current roster. He is close friends with PK though, and if he goes into next year without an extension ... If I'm PK, I'm trying everything I can to persuade him if it's next season and he as no new contract. Stamkos wont leave for the same reason st louis and lecavalier didnt leave. Well paid, great weather, no one bothers you. It's unlikely, I agree. Still, PK could be incentive. The Lightning have a good team. They're a Subban away from elite perhaps. We're a Stamkos.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 22, 2014 14:29:52 GMT -5
Stamkos wont leave for the same reason st louis and lecavalier didnt leave. Well paid, great weather, no one bothers you. It's unlikely, I agree. Still, PK could be incentive. The Lightning have a good team. They're a Subban away from elite perhaps. We're a Stamkos. Very true... each team has what the other needs.
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Post by PTH on Nov 22, 2014 14:33:31 GMT -5
Is anyone aware of a player actually convincing a friend of his, ahead of time, not to re-sign, to then come and join him on another team ? I've heard of players calling up friends to check up on a city before signing there and things like that, but never a single case of it happening ahead of time, like Ovechkin convincing Markov not to sign in Montreal so that he could go to Washington as a UFA, and so on... It's never been done publicly, but you can bet quietly it's happened. To my knowledge it's not considered collusion if a player, not in an official capacity of representing his team, says, "you should come play here." I mean, as kids, playing with friends we all dreamed about playing in the NHL WITH our friends and on the same team. Well, can you think of a single UFA who went to a team where his old buddy already was (and who would likely have been kept by his former team if he'd given them a chance) ?
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Post by blny on Nov 22, 2014 14:34:05 GMT -5
It's unlikely, I agree. Still, PK could be incentive. The Lightning have a good team. They're a Subban away from elite perhaps. We're a Stamkos. Very true... each team has what the other needs. ... and given how weak the UFA pool is this summer coming - perhaps the worst crop ever - I'd be all in favor of waiting to see if Stamkos signs an extension or not. I'd imagine their success this season will go a long way to what he decides. Steve strikes me as a guy that does like the Florida environment, but likes winning more. He's got a competitive side, and that could win out.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 22, 2014 14:40:22 GMT -5
Back to the youngens, does this deal make Tinordi or Beaulieu expendable? Not really, because neither can be replaced nest year. Although I will throw gasoline on the fire and say that a deal sending Beaulieu to Edmonton for Yakupov is now Imminent The mysterious EKLUND has been found out! Eklund's a member of Habsrus? My my, how'd you make it past our ever vigilant mods? Anyways, let me be the first to welcome you here!
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Post by blny on Nov 22, 2014 14:40:46 GMT -5
It's never been done publicly, but you can bet quietly it's happened. To my knowledge it's not considered collusion if a player, not in an official capacity of representing his team, says, "you should come play here." I mean, as kids, playing with friends we all dreamed about playing in the NHL WITH our friends and on the same team. Well, can you think of a single UFA who went to a team where his old buddy already was (and who would likely have been kept by his former team if he'd given them a chance) ? In the NHL, I'd have to do some research. In the NBA, Lebron's move to Miami was completely orchestrated to coincide with Bosh coming and Wade staying. They were completely involved in that process as a trio.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 22, 2014 17:05:10 GMT -5
It's never been done publicly, but you can bet quietly it's happened. To my knowledge it's not considered collusion if a player, not in an official capacity of representing his team, says, "you should come play here." I mean, as kids, playing with friends we all dreamed about playing in the NHL WITH our friends and on the same team. Well, can you think of a single UFA who went to a team where his old buddy already was (and who would likely have been kept by his former team if he'd given them a chance) ? The immediate one that comes to my mind is Zach Parise called his good buddy Ryan Suter to convince him to go to Minnesota before he signed .... They both then signed the same day
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Post by habsask on Nov 22, 2014 23:43:13 GMT -5
I was trying to figure out if there was a method to the madness besides getting rid of contracts.... What do we need on defense? More puck movement and tougher defense. The problem is we got two kids that give us both, but also bring their rookie mistakes with them and concerns when the playoff games are on the line. MB went out to fill in those roles with players that to a large extent are "has beens". Allen and Gonchar are 7 years removed from their prime, but in a sheltered environment and short run of the playoffs, those two can go the extra miles. They are gone next year and at that point, there are no more "trial and error". The kids will take over and that's that. It makes so much sense and given the path, his next move is to get an all around top 6 forward. Hello Stafford. Plus with two major contracts off the books, we can resign him. Also, if allows MB to pay a bit more to acquire him if he is more then a rental. 40 years ago, I could see in Pollock actions a very logical and relentless path.....and so does MB. Agree fully HA. Not long ago Bergevin said that the two young dmen needed to improve- which means to me that he's looking for them to be ready for prime time next season after more experience. In the mean time he fills with serviceable oldsters. And of course he had to plan for Cap space for the new contracts next season. Personally I think the Habs have one of the better GMs in the League. Cheers
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Post by christrpn on Nov 23, 2014 8:17:22 GMT -5
MB seems to be methodical. I truly believe he sees our top 6 winger coming up in the ranks. Someone he drafted. I don't think he will make any long term blockbuster moves to acquire that player. At the deadline, he might go after a Staal type player. A UFA that can help us get over that hump, but will leave and make room for a young player.
If you think about it, he hasn't made ANY long term decisions other than signing Subban to an 8 yr deal. (did MB sign Patches?)
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 24, 2014 7:52:39 GMT -5
Well, can you think of a single UFA who went to a team where his old buddy already was (and who would likely have been kept by his former team if he'd given them a chance) ? The immediate one that comes to my mind is Zach Parise called his good buddy Ryan Suter to convince him to go to Minnesota before he signed .... They both then signed the same day Kariya and Selanne also come to mind, though neither one of them was with Colorado the season before. As for Bryan Allen... Douglas Murray could at least hit... Allen? Sheesh. Not impressed. Having said that, as I said before I doubt they were targeting Allen specifically. He was just a warm body UFA that they had to acquire to get out from Bourque's contract.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 24, 2014 15:00:47 GMT -5
It's never been done publicly, but you can bet quietly it's happened. To my knowledge it's not considered collusion if a player, not in an official capacity of representing his team, says, "you should come play here." I mean, as kids, playing with friends we all dreamed about playing in the NHL WITH our friends and on the same team. Well, can you think of a single UFA who went to a team where his old buddy already was (and who would likely have been kept by his former team if he'd given them a chance) ? Does Gionta signing after we traded for Gomez count?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 26, 2014 13:16:25 GMT -5
Just skimmed through the thread and I'll read it more closely tomorrow.
Another veteran d-man is never a bad thing. Allen is a good stay-at-home d-man who can throw his weight around. I haven't seen him play all that much in recent years but I suspect he's still hard to move off the puck.
Don't know where this leaves Tinordi/Beaulieu. I'm not sure if Bergevin doesn't feel they're ready or if he's just stocking up on defensive depth for later in the season.
A few years late, but I like the deal ... I also suspect Bourque will do alright in Anaheim, if only in the short term.
Cheers.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 26, 2014 17:55:47 GMT -5
Saw Bourque play last night against Flames. Or should say that from time to time I noticed a guy with Bourque written on the back of his sweater skating around (and around and around). Don't miss him a bit. Had to laugh when they interviewed him between periods and he says he prefers to play out west as it is more his style of game - fast and physical
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