|
Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 26, 2014 11:24:17 GMT -5
All the players who played with DD from Pacioretty to Cole, to Vanek and now Parenteau mentioned how they enjoy playing on a line with Desharnais… Why? Because they produce there. If DD is only a by-product of Pacioretty than why do other players also produce at career high clip with DD… Is he a #1 center? Nope. He’s not paid as such nor is the center who receives the most icetime, on both account that player is Plekanec for the moment. Desharnais is a secondary offensive center , a role he plays very well IMO. Meh. Don't bother, Doc. People around here have decided that Desharnais is a horrible monster who eats babies for breakfast, and MT is a Cro-Magnon moron who can't coach worth a damn, and arguing that doesn't change anyone's perceptions... The Desharnais line is working fine... Pacioretty and DD are a combined +19, roughly one goal out of 3 on this team comes from that line, DD is over 50% in the faceoff circle, and well if we agree that Desharnais is a 50pts player than at this point in the season he is a shocking, jaw dropping, 3 points behind where he should be. Let’s get the tar and feathers… Is there a better lineup possible with the players we have? It’s a matter of opinion but put Galchenyuk with Pacioretty and I am far from certain that they’d both produce more than their present clip by simply being together… and you’re basically putting all your eggs in the same basket by doing so. Put Pacioretty with Eller? …nope…. For all the “Eller gets no respect from MT” talk, Eller played all of last year with the second best winger of the team (Galchenyuk) and couldn’t do anything with it beyond a tiny hot 3 game streak that happened in the first 3 games of the season… first 3 games: 4 goals, 6 points… rest of the year: 6 goals, 20 points… and really Galchenyuk had his worst offensive year ever playing with Eller… So I’m not exactly certain what would warrant putting our best scorer with Eller… Put Pacioretty with Plekanec? Then what? Put Galchenyuk back in the Eller offensive purgatory? Or put Galchenyuk with DD ? Seems to me it would quite a silly move as you are breaking up 2 pair that works good to create 2 new ones for the sake of moving players around AND separating Pax from DD which appears to be … I don’t know but I have the feeling we’re trying to fix something that isn’t broken… I'm all for upgrading the team, but I sure don't agree that getting rid of Desharnais for the sake of it is an upgrade... aside from sacrificing the scapegoat.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Nov 26, 2014 11:57:23 GMT -5
if we agree that Desharnais is a 50pts player than at this point in the season he is a shocking, jaw dropping, 3 points behind where he should be. I'm all for upgrading the team, but I sure don't agree that getting rid of Desharnais for the sake of it is an upgrade... aside from sacrificing the scapegoat. Can a Stanley Cup contender have a 50 point producer as its center on its #1 line?
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 26, 2014 12:02:44 GMT -5
if we agree that Desharnais is a 50pts player than at this point in the season he is a shocking, jaw dropping, 3 points behind where he should be. I'm all for upgrading the team, but I sure don't agree that getting rid of Desharnais for the sake of it is an upgrade... aside from sacrificing the scapegoat. Can a Stanley Cup contender have a 50 point producer as its center on its #1 line? Not sure, but I really miss Thomas Vanish and his one goal this year.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 26, 2014 12:58:55 GMT -5
if we agree that Desharnais is a 50pts player than at this point in the season he is a shocking, jaw dropping, 3 points behind where he should be. I'm all for upgrading the team, but I sure don't agree that getting rid of Desharnais for the sake of it is an upgrade... aside from sacrificing the scapegoat. Can a Stanley Cup contender have a 50 point producer as its center on its #1 line? The most used center on this team every year is Plekanec, not Desharnais. How about upgrading there instead and let our most productive line intact ? Just another way of looking at this.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Nov 26, 2014 14:24:24 GMT -5
If you're talking total TOI, Doc….wouldn't that be because we've taken a lot of penalties in the past few years, and Pleks specializes on the PK?
So far this year, we rank 4th in TSH. 2013-14: 7th 2012-13: 6th 2011-12: 2nd 2010-11: 1st
This year, Pleks is averaging 1:30 more ice per game than is DD.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 26, 2014 16:01:55 GMT -5
If you're talking total TOI, Doc….wouldn't that be because we've taken a lot of penalties in the past few years, and Pleks specializes on the PK? So far this year, we rank 4th in TSH. 2013-14: 7th 2012-13: 6th 2011-12: 2nd 2010-11: 1st This year, Pleks is averaging 1:30 more ice per game than is DD. Even Strenght is usually close between the 2, favoring Pleks by a small margin. DD gest a tad more PP because he's on the first wave (this season DD averages 30 seconds more PP time per game than Pleks). Pleks does indeed take PK minutes that DD doesn't. The only reason DD is called the "#1 center" is because he plays with Pacioretty. He makes 1.5M less than Plekanec and plays less minutes overall.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Nov 26, 2014 18:12:28 GMT -5
Meh. Don't bother, Doc. People around here have decided that Desharnais is a horrible monster who eats babies for breakfast, and MT is a Cro-Magnon moron who can't coach worth a damn, and arguing that doesn't change anyone's perceptions... The Desharnais line is working fine... Pacioretty and DD are a combined +19, roughly one goal out of 3 on this team comes from that line, DD is over 50% in the faceoff circle, and well if we agree that Desharnais is a 50pts player than at this point in the season he is a shocking, jaw dropping, 3 points behind where he should be. Let’s get the tar and feathers… Is there a better lineup possible with the players we have? It’s a matter of opinion but put Galchenyuk with Pacioretty and I am far from certain that they’d both produce more than their present clip by simply being together… and you’re basically putting all your eggs in the same basket by doing so. Put Pacioretty with Eller? …nope…. For all the “Eller gets no respect from MT” talk, Eller played all of last year with the second best winger of the team (Galchenyuk) and couldn’t do anything with it beyond a tiny hot 3 game streak that happened in the first 3 games of the season… first 3 games: 4 goals, 6 points… rest of the year: 6 goals, 20 points… and really Galchenyuk had his worst offensive year ever playing with Eller… So I’m not exactly certain what would warrant putting our best scorer with Eller… Put Pacioretty with Plekanec? Then what? Put Galchenyuk back in the Eller offensive purgatory? Or put Galchenyuk with DD ? Seems to me it would quite a silly move as you are breaking up 2 pair that works good to create 2 new ones for the sake of moving players around AND separating Pax from DD which appears to be … I don’t know but I have the feeling we’re trying to fix something that isn’t broken… I'm all for upgrading the team, but I sure don't agree that getting rid of Desharnais for the sake of it is an upgrade... aside from sacrificing the scapegoat. Last year they "fixed something that was broken" while breaking something that didn't need fixing. If we are going to look at Eller last year, than I think we should look at that line in its entirety. By your definition of lines, Eller's line last year was the third line. At the 20 game point in the season the three players had: Galchenyuk - 4 goals, 15 points Gallagher - 8 goals, 12 points Eller - 7 goals, 13 points So prorated the THIRD line was on pace for: Three 50 point players (well, Gallagher was a shade over 48) A 32 goal scorer A 28 goal scorer A 60 point player But they broke it up. Gallagher goes from a 32 goal scorer with Eller, to finish with 19 goal total when put on with Desharnais. Eller was of course given Prust, and Bourque and whatever flavour of the week, and expected to keep up the production. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't happen. I do wonder though why people are hard on Eller when by salary and TOI he is "just" a third liner, which is what? 30 points (a jaw dropping 4 points off what he got even with the scrubs) if a first liner is 50 points. Yet they love to point out that DD is up to snuff based on salary at second line status.
|
|
|
Post by christrpn on Nov 26, 2014 18:55:33 GMT -5
Lets compare the las stanley cup winning teams: Chicago: Toews and Sharp Los Angeles: Kopitar and Carter Boston Bruins: Patrice Bergeron and David Krejci The Habs have Plekanec and Desharnais. Can we all agree that the closest we come to one of the above is Boston? Look aat the supporting cast they had that year. If we are to keep these two as our two top centers, which ever order you want to give them, the we have to upgrade on the wing, substantially. If we keep the wing status quo, then they either both go or we just DD. Plekanec does way more for this team than DD does. If we trade DD, his offensive production could be picked up by other players as well as whats coming back. We don't have what's needed to replace what Pleks gives this team. Unless we can all agree that Eller can handle all the defensive assignments, Andrew Berkshire had an article outlinning the possible trades involving our centers. Mostly to Edmonton for Perron but the outcomes are pretty much the same no matter what comes back: www.habseyesontheprize.com/analysis/2014/11/26/7276851/david-perron-canadiens-trade-rumours-david-desharnais
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Nov 26, 2014 19:01:24 GMT -5
I'm thinking along the same lines as Skilly on the subject of Desharnais. I just wish Skilly would note one minor (unrelated) point. Cro-magnons are thought to be indistinguishable from modern humans. They were skilled and artistic. It would be better to substitute Neanderthals when referring to a slightly inferior subspecies.
I disagree with christrpn that the wings can make up for the absence of Desharnais. The centers have different responsibilities. Even if Galchenyuk successfully converts, the Habs would be too thin at center. The solution would be to develop a good offensive center who can help the wings score more. I say develop because I'm skeptical that anyone would trade a capable center to the Habs.
|
|
|
Desharnais
Nov 26, 2014 21:56:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Willie Dog on Nov 26, 2014 21:56:17 GMT -5
Lets compare the las stanley cup winning teams: Chicago: Toews and Sharp Los Angeles: Kopitar and Carter Boston Bruins: Patrice Bergeron and David Krejci The Habs have Plekanec and Desharnais. Can we all agree that the closest we come to one of the above is Boston? Look aat the supporting cast they had that year. If we are to keep these two as our two top centers, which ever order you want to give them, the we have to upgrade on the wing, substantially. If we keep the wing status quo, then they either both go or we just DD. Plekanec does way more for this team than DD does. If we trade DD, his offensive production could be picked up by other players as well as whats coming back. We don't have what's needed to replace what Pleks gives this team. Unless we can all agree that Eller can handle all the defensive assignments, Andrew Berkshire had an article outlinning the possible trades involving our centers. Mostly to Edmonton for Perron but the outcomes are pretty much the same no matter what comes back: www.habseyesontheprize.com/analysis/2014/11/26/7276851/david-perron-canadiens-trade-rumours-david-desharnaisThanks for posting the article Chris i read eotp everyday and was gonna put it up but didn't have time.
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Nov 27, 2014 0:31:01 GMT -5
Meh. Don't bother, Doc. People around here have decided that Desharnais is a horrible monster who eats babies for breakfast, and MT is a Cro-Magnon moron who can't coach worth a damn, and arguing that doesn't change anyone's perceptions... I get that you are using exaggeration to make a point, but that's a little over the top and pretty silly if you ask me. You should know better. Nobody is suggesting that Desharnais is a monster who eats babies for breakfast. Babies are full of fat, and every professional athlete, even Desharnais, watches his diet. A guy his size can't afford to be adding empty calories like those found in dimples and giggles. No, Desharnais eats puppies, who are full of energy and protein. THOSE are good calories (albeit somewhat chewy). Thanks BC for making me smile when I read this.
|
|