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Post by CentreHice on Jan 27, 2015 22:16:01 GMT -5
Can't believe how difficult we make it for ourselves.
42 shots allowed.
Nice penalty killing, I'll give the team that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 22:18:41 GMT -5
Is our defense really bad at getting the puck out, or is there poor support from our forwards?
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 27, 2015 22:20:26 GMT -5
Is our defense really bad at getting the puck out, or is there poor support from our forwards? I think it's clear that if we're going to be a legit threat...a solid second-pairing D man should be first on MB's list. Maybe Tinner comes up in this stretch of home games. Not holding my breath.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 27, 2015 22:25:10 GMT -5
The Habs had more than enough chances to ice the game ... the Stars had more than enough chances to tie the game ... good to see Jason Spezza back on the bench so quickly ... great looking goal from Galchenyuk ... big time move ... onto New York ... the Rangers are coming off a loss to Long Island and they're at home ... tough task, but a necessary one ... take them out in their own barn ...
Cheers.
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Post by Disp on Jan 27, 2015 22:29:14 GMT -5
Switch goalies and it's probably a 5-1 loss.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 27, 2015 22:39:11 GMT -5
Wow! By far our worst game of the season. Don't know how we got 2 points let alone one. CAREY!!!
The boys must have had one heck of a week off. Not only out of synch but no thought process at all. Can't believe how many unforced turnovers in our own end. And it wasn't just our D.
What's MT's excuse. One centre man on for a face-off in our zone with 3 seconds to go. Are you kidding me? Coaching 101.
Max must have partied every night. i think he took DD with him to stir the drinks.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2015 0:40:12 GMT -5
What's MT's excuse. One centre man on for a face-off in our zone with 3 seconds to go. Are you kidding me? Coaching 101. I remember making that point, when was it?....oh yeah, December 6th, against.....oh yeah, the Stars. Seguin scores with 8 seconds to go in the second period when we had DD out there for the face-off (the only centreman) and he lost the draw cleanly to Benn. MT must have a short memory. Even if he hadn't recalled what happened, as you say, it's pretty basic decision making. Last few seconds, your end = 2 centremen out there. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. But he manages to come out smelling like a rose again, with another win. I get the feeling that at some point, (a Price injury?) the pendulum will swing the other way and we'll be pulling our hair out (if you have any hair left). Other than that, was the game really that one-sided? The first period or early part of the game thread comments suggested the Dallas shots weren't that dangerous.
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Post by PTH on Jan 28, 2015 0:45:13 GMT -5
-Price was awesome -Sekac, Markov, Plekanec, the Gally's.... were solid -Galchenyuk's time at center has rubbed off on him, he seems to like charging the center of the opposing zone. -Subban was strong in some respects, but also caused a couple of boneheaded turnovers -I like Beaulieu, but I hated it when he just threw the puck to Gonchar when under pressure, when Gonchar was in no way in a better position. -Gilbert pleasantly surprised me by not being putrid, making me think the worst problems on his pairing are Emelin's fault -Emelin probably won't be suspended since Spezza turned just before the hit, but that was still a stupid play on his part. -Were Max and DD dressed ? The only time I saw Pacioretty was when he left the zone too early. -I'm getting annoyed at Eller. He passes up easy hits on the offensive zone. -Prust was rusty. If he had a tad of a scoring touch he'd have scored 2. -I'm really not missing PAP.
-MT said in his presser that he had Malhotra for the faceoff, and wanted a couple of hustling wingers willing to block shots; plus, Gallagher takes some faceoffs
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Post by PTH on Jan 28, 2015 0:46:58 GMT -5
Other than that, was the game really that one-sided? The first period or early part of the game thread comments suggested the Dallas shots weren't that dangerous. For the first part of the game, I'd say the Stars had puck control but not that many chances. For the second part, they got more and more chances and got us running around quite a bit, and it was a lot more of a rope-a-dope type situation.
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Post by stoat on Jan 28, 2015 0:52:34 GMT -5
Games like this lift Price's chances of winning the Vezina. Was that what his teammates had in mind?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2015 0:58:14 GMT -5
-MT said in his presser that he had Malhotra for the faceoff, and wanted a couple of hustling wingers willing to block shots; plus, Gallagher takes some faceoffs Thanks PTH. Good recap. I've seen Gallagher take some faceoffs in other games, normally when his centre is waved out. Problem is that Spezza is a pretty good face-off guy and I'd really have preferred someone like Eller who has better technique and is strong as well. The face-off is so critical and the times I've seen goals scored quickly off them (and with 2 seconds, it has to be quick), the blocking forwards are redundant. The puck goes back fast and the shot is fast too. Much lower risk to win the faceoff or at least negate a clean win for them.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 28, 2015 1:49:30 GMT -5
-MT said in his presser that he had Malhotra for the faceoff, and wanted a couple of hustling wingers willing to block shots; plus, Gallagher takes some faceoffs Thanks PTH. Good recap. I've seen Gallagher take some faceoffs in other games, normally when his centre is waved out. Problem is that Spezza is a pretty good face-off guy and I'd really have preferred someone like Eller who has better technique and is strong as well. The face-off is so critical and the times I've seen goals scored quickly off them (and with 2 seconds, it has to be quick), the blocking forwards are redundant. The puck goes back fast and the shot is fast too. Much lower risk to win the faceoff or at least negate a clean win for them. I think MT must have recognized the folly in his strategy as same situation in the second period and he had Malhotra and Pleks out there. I'm going with the 'Price Theory' - if not for Carey, MT would have had his sorry a$$ fired a long time ago. Hard to believe he has a better winning percentage than Ruff. Can you say Carey and Crosby.
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 28, 2015 8:24:05 GMT -5
Well that was a pretty lousy "intentional offside" call that resulted in that faceoff in our zone, and who knows why Malhotra got tossed. He seemed pretty ticked off about it, which for a normally calm guy says something. How many times does he get kicked out? I can't say I've been paying attention, but it doesn't seem like all that many to me. What we really needed was Bill Lindsay out there to take the draw. Not their best game of the season that's for sure. But a win is a win I suppose. PK with over 28 minutes played last night! Unfortunately Markov also played big minutes... I say "unfortunately" because I don't want him wearing down come playoff time. I'm not sure how they're going to manage that, not when your "let's give minutes to this guy instead" options are Gonchar, Emelin and Gilbert.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 28, 2015 8:43:40 GMT -5
7 of our past 12 games: 35+ shots against. 2 others sit at 31.
The current spectrum of shots for/shots against goes from:
1st: 32/26.8 Minnesota (+5.2) 30th: 23/35 Buffalo (-12)
Habs are 23rd at 27.6/30.7 (-3.1)
Maybe it's not a big deal….but Price sure covers a lot of warts.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 28, 2015 8:53:14 GMT -5
Thanks PTH. Good recap. I've seen Gallagher take some faceoffs in other games, normally when his centre is waved out. Problem is that Spezza is a pretty good face-off guy and I'd really have preferred someone like Eller who has better technique and is strong as well. The face-off is so critical and the times I've seen goals scored quickly off them (and with 2 seconds, it has to be quick), the blocking forwards are redundant. The puck goes back fast and the shot is fast too. Much lower risk to win the faceoff or at least negate a clean win for them. I think MT must have recognized the folly in his strategy as same situation in the second period and he had Malhotra and Pleks out there. I'm going with the 'Price Theory' - if not for Carey, MT would have had his sorry a$$ fired a long time ago. Hard to believe he has a better winning percentage than Ruff. Can you say Carey and Crosby. MT was pissed post game when an interviewer asked him why a 2nd faceoff man wasn't out at the end of the 1st period. MT didn't answer the question, the reported asked it again, MT looked pissed, I believe the reporter asked it again and MT said he had 2 guys out there to block the shot if the faceoff was lost. That is flawed logic because he did not do the same thing at the end of the 2nd. A coach needs to be able to say I made a mistake and we corrected it when the same situation occurred at the end of the 2nd. btw, I would love to have Ruff as our coach, he is respected league wide by other coaches and the officials. I do not know how MT is perceived, but I am pretty sure he is well below Lindy.
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Post by franko on Jan 28, 2015 9:22:20 GMT -5
Is our defense really bad at getting the puck out, or is there poor support from our forwards? yes
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Post by franko on Jan 28, 2015 9:24:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure how they're going to manage that, not when your "let's give minutes to this guy instead" options are Gonchar, Emelin and Gilbert. you-know-who will be back now.
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Post by Polarice on Jan 28, 2015 10:27:13 GMT -5
Not many guys showed up last night, really Gally, subban and Price were the only ones that stood out. Give the team the benefit of the doubt that they were still thinking about all the babes on the beaches. They better show up against the Rangers.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jan 28, 2015 10:31:16 GMT -5
I'm not sure how they're going to manage that, not when your "let's give minutes to this guy instead" options are Gonchar, Emelin and Gilbert. you-know-who will be back now. please don't say cube!
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 28, 2015 10:56:09 GMT -5
Listening to Brian Wilde on TSN690 talking about possession numbers. (Sorry if this info has been reported somewhere prior.)
Since they've been keeping those stats, every Cup winner has been Top 5 in the league in possession.
One exception…the Penguins at #7. BUT….they were 19th when Therrien was fired, then rocketed up 12 spaces under Bylsma.
So, they were no doubt a top team in that regard, too. They just weren't being allowed to play that way.
He said, "The Habs are still in the bottom third of the league…so logic would say that won't win you a Cup."
Would our low possession rating be more the result of our skill level or the way we're coached?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2015 11:07:20 GMT -5
Would our low possession rating be more the result of our skill level or the way we're coached? Aye, there's the rub. I realize I'm biased when it comes to Therrien (but if I'm paranoid, perhaps I really am being chased?), but things like that face-off error really bug me. It's about attention to detail and the best teams are good at that. Cripes, when I look at Detroit's line-up, it is underwhelming, yet there they are, right up with the Habs. Sigh. Some of us aren't the only ones with that question mark over the team's play and their reliance on Price. Eric Engels' blog today goes into that territory. Good read. www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?blogger_id=82Will Therrien Tweak his System to Improve the Canadiens?
January 28, 2015 Eric Engels
Michel Therrien isn't going to apologize for the fact that Carey Price is his best player, but Montreal Canadiens fans everywhere continue to be perplexed at the extent to which Price has had to prove that.
Night after night, the Canadiens are putting a lot of pressure on Price to deliver his very best, and rare has there been an occasion when they haven't had to rely on him in that capacity. A game against Vancouver on December 9th comes to mind, when the Canadiens allowed just 16 shots to get to Price. Another against Columbus, just 14 days ago, saw the Canadiens truly dominate the possession game.
In 34 of their 46 games this season, the Canadiens have allowed 28 shots or more. In 26 games, it's been 30 or more. In 14 games (6 wins and an overtime loss for Price), it's been 35 or more. On average, the team allows 30.7 shots against per game, good for 23rd in the NHL.
The Canadiens have out-shot their opponents in 19 games this season, winning 13 of them, picking up an extra point in one other. They've won both contests in which they've tied their opponents in shots, and they've managed 15 wins and two extra points in the 25 games they've been out-shot in.
In Michel Therrien's first year back behind the Canadiens bench (the lockout abridged season of 2012-13), the Canadiens ranked fourth in shots against per game. Consider that in 39 starts, Price faced 1018 shots, and in 37 games this season, he's already faced 1120.
"We're well aware that we have a really great goalie, and we're very happy to have him with us," said Therrien after Price turned in a 40-save performance for the win last night. Damn right!
It's conceded that last night, the Canadiens lacked their regular rhythm after several days away from the rink, and against a very aggressive Stars team, that put them in the line of fire. But, it's also generally conceded that this Canadiens team has better personnel than the last two editions, and to be categorically outplayed as often as they have lends credence to all the second guessing the fans have done in relation to the system the team plays and the combinations the head coach has come up with.
There are currently nine teams with a better shooting percentage than the Canadiens, but no team has a higher PDO (combination of shooting percentage and save percentage). Price's .929 save percentage shines even brighter under that lens. A marginal drop, which one would expect with the amount of shots and chances he's currently facing, wouldn't see the Canadiens plummet in the standings, but a drop off in their shooting percentage could prove disastrous.
Lucky for them, the power play--the bane of Montreal's existence for most of the season--has really come to life over the last five games, converting 38% of their opportunities (8/21) after running at 13.6% (16/117). If they could maintain a success rate in the middle ground, that would go a long way towards covering up their deficiency in the possession stats.
The penalty kill has been a strength all season. At nearly 85% efficiency, and Price rightfully shares the credit with his teammates:
"We're working as a unit. We have guys that are willing to block shots, and that's probably the biggest part about it. We're really good at getting in lanes and we're willing to pay the price."
The question, will the price inevitably become too much to bare?
At the beginning of January, I wrote a piece about the necessity to balance the possession disadvantage with the Canadiens' ability to defend well in their own zone, and the importance of considering the quality of the chances they allow. At the time, the Canadiens were hovering between 49-50% in Corsi and Fenwick. Since, they've gone 4-2-1, badly out-possessed in all but two of those games (wins against the Islanders and Blue Jackets).
No need to remind you that there are 36 games remaining before the level of hockey kicks up several notches in the post-season. If the Habs can adjust, the just might prove that they have what it takes to contend for a Stanley Cup, but it's hard to imagine tremendous goaltending combined with above average shooting percentage and a solid powerplay will be enough to push them over the edge.
Marc Bergevin has to be wondering what he can do to influence a positive change in the way his team plays the game. He's not meddled in his coach's decisions and strategies, but it's hard to imagine a couple of personnel changes dramatically altering the team's possession deficiency, granted, they might relegate certain players back into the roles you expect to see them (see Weise, Dale).
Is Michel Therrien willing to tweak his systems? That's the ultimate question. Someone tried to put it to him last night, but not in those terms, and he wasn't willing to answer.
But, rest assured, Therrien's thrilled to have Carey Price in Montreal. He mentioned it more than once last night.
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Post by franko on Jan 28, 2015 11:14:14 GMT -5
when I look at Detroit's line-up, it is underwhelming, yet there they are, right up with the Habs. Sigh. "right up there"? they're tied for first in the conference! yes, it is not question at all: it is coaching. or should I say COACHING!!!
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Post by Polarice on Jan 28, 2015 11:33:10 GMT -5
Listening to Brian Wilde on TSN690 talking about possession numbers. (Sorry if this info has been reported somewhere prior.) Since they've been keeping those stats, every Cup winner has been Top 5 in the league in possession. One exception…the Penguins at #7. BUT….they were 19th when Therrien was fired, then rocketed up 12 spaces under Bylsma. So, they were no doubt a top team in that regard, too. They just weren't being allowed to play that way. He said, "The Habs are still in the bottom third of the league…so logic would say that won't win you a Cup." Would our low possession rating be more the result of our skill level or the way we're coached? It's the way we are coached. I spoke to a coaching friend of mine (not in the NHL) he mentioned it's all about preferred style. Possession sounds like a good system and when it works its very difficult to play against, however, if you plug the neutral zone up the middle, then it causes many turnovers and a lot of odd man rushes. So, if you are playing a team that likes to trap, your possession system will probably not work unless you have a couple super stars in your lineup. The preferred style usually is the dump and chase or a two, three left wing trap(sometimes called a 2-1-2 trap). Both are very similar, both play well against a possession system. However, as pointed out here, it's not very flattering to a teams possession stats, or shots on goal etc. However, it can take an average team....like Detroit, Boston etc and keep them competitive for many years. So basically what he was saying....stats don't always tell the full story. Being dominated in the possession stat doesn't necessarily mean you weren't the better team. In the end, it's the final score that counts.
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Post by franko on Jan 28, 2015 11:43:41 GMT -5
Being dominated in the possession stat doesn't necessarily mean you weren't the better team. In the end, it's the final score that counts. put possession aside and look at the final score. it's back on the goalie then, especially if (and I don't know) possession = shots on goal. but then, are they 'quality' shots? and then . . .
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Post by Polarice on Jan 28, 2015 11:51:32 GMT -5
Being dominated in the possession stat doesn't necessarily mean you weren't the better team. In the end, it's the final score that counts. put possession aside and look at the final score. it's back on the goalie then, especially if (and I don't know) possession = shots on goal. but then, are they 'quality' shots? and then . . . If you remember how we played Washington in the playoffs a few years back, Halak appeared to be standing on his head making 40 plus saves a night. However, when looking at the quality of shots, over 2/3's of the shots were taking from the perimeter. Montreal blocked the middle of the ice and forced Washington to the boards were they ended up shooting from. Looking at the possession numbers and shots on goal, Washington should have swept Montreal. In reality, Montreal controlled the games for the most part, directing Washington to the areas of the ice that they in fact wanted them to go.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 28, 2015 12:12:15 GMT -5
If you remember how we played Washington in the playoffs a few years back, Halak appeared to be standing on his head making 40 plus saves a night. However, when looking at the quality of shots, over 2/3's of the shots were taking from the perimeter. Montreal blocked the middle of the ice and forced Washington to the boards were they ended up shooting from. Looking at the possession numbers and shots on goal, Washington should have swept Montreal. In reality, Montreal controlled the games for the most part, directing Washington to the areas of the ice that they in fact wanted them to go. Something like 131 saves on 134 shots in the last three games vs. the Caps. I don't think the Habs kept 90 or more of them to the perimeter. But anyone can take a look.... In the Nostalgia Section, there's a highlight pack of every save he made in those games.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 28, 2015 12:18:28 GMT -5
put possession aside and look at the final score. it's back on the goalie then, especially if (and I don't know) possession = shots on goal. but then, are they 'quality' shots? and then . . . If you remember how we played Washington in the playoffs a few years back, Halak appeared to be standing on his head making 40 plus saves a night. However, when looking at the quality of shots, over 2/3's of the shots were taking from the perimeter. Montreal blocked the middle of the ice and forced Washington to the boards were they ended up shooting from. Looking at the possession numbers and shots on goal, Washington should have swept Montreal. In reality, Montreal controlled the games for the most part, directing Washington to the areas of the ice that they in fact wanted them to go. I remember hearing something similar to this on TV during that 2010 run, Reap ... can't remember who the analyst was but he reviewed the Montreal defensive system under Martin ... he said something like (paraphrase), "... (the Habs) aren't trying to get the puck out of the zone. They're keeping the puck to the outside all the time ..." I didn't remember this until you quoted your friend ... I'm at work right now and the servers don't allow for streaming (a bandwidth/cost thing) so I'll try and find a You Tube reference to it later ... the analyst was pretty specific about Jacques Martin's system ... Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2015 12:27:16 GMT -5
Well that was a pretty lousy "intentional offside" call that resulted in that faceoff in our zone, and who knows why Malhotra got tossed. He seemed pretty ticked off about it, which for a normally calm guy says something. How many times does he get kicked out? I can't say I've been paying attention, but it doesn't seem like all that many to me. What we really needed was Bill Lindsay out there to take the draw. I didn't get that at first because I've been successful at blanking out Therrien's first tour of duty with us, but Mitch Melnick's column this morning reminded me. For the rest of use old fogies with alcohol fueled burned out memories.... Asked about it afterwards by Francois Gagnon and Jess Rusnak Therrien bristled. Perhaps thinking back to an overtime playoff loss to Carolina when he had winger Bill Lindsey take the draw with four centremen on the bench (it ended badly), Therrien suggested that "second guessing is the easiest thing to do". What he should have said was "I made a mistake. (Our guys missed assignments and the ref missed a call but) I messed up. We got burned." Late in the second period the same scenario played itself out in the same spot. Malhotra lost the draw and Tyler Seguin was able to get a shot at (but over) the net. But Therrien had Thomas Plekanec on the ice.Like anyone with a head that's too big for his hats, Therrien doesn't like admitting he's made a mistake. In fact, I can't recall a time when he out and out admitted one. That's not a sign I like to see in my leaders. Just one more reason I'd like him sent down to Hamilton, or Wheeling, or Coronation AB. (nothing against Coronation, I just love the name).
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Post by seventeen on Jan 28, 2015 12:32:39 GMT -5
PK with over 28 minutes played last night! Unfortunately Markov also played big minutes... I say "unfortunately" because I don't want him wearing down come playoff time. I'm not sure how they're going to manage that, not when your "let's give minutes to this guy instead" options are Gonchar, Emelin and Gilbert. I'm sure that was forced on Therrien because Emelin got ejected, leaving Beaulieu and Markov as his left handed d-men (unless he platooned Gonchar into that mix).
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 28, 2015 12:57:19 GMT -5
I'm not sure how they're going to manage that, not when your "let's give minutes to this guy instead" options are Gonchar, Emelin and Gilbert. you-know-who will be back now. Not Frankie Boo... say it ain't so Franko!
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