|
Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2015 13:58:50 GMT -5
Agreed.....And playing with Eller hasn't helped him much, but, if he is so talented he should have potted a goal or two in 2 months. Weise had helped Max's line getting it going some. Why didn't mtHead try changing the third line. Put Weise on it, and move Sekac up. Something. Give your UFA goal scorer signing a chance. Yep Or they could have moved Gallagher up to the first line, and placed Sekac with Plekanec and Galchenyuk. But they prefered to do what the Habs always do ... slot a player on the third line and tell them to learn to play defense and then complain when they do not produce. It's not a coincidence that all three linemates are in the same slump.
|
|
|
Post by duster on Feb 24, 2015 14:05:44 GMT -5
We traded a potential second line player for a potential 3rd-4th liner albeit one with upside. The team is going to regret this. I'm a fan of Smith-Pelly but I'm also a Sekac fan. MT misused the latter and never gave him a real chance. Sekac has great hands, good vision and a lot of skills. That said, I like Smith-Pelly's game. He's all hustle.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Feb 24, 2015 14:06:29 GMT -5
Weise had helped Max's line getting it going some. Why didn't mtHead try changing the third line. Put Weise on it, and move Sekac up. Something. Give your UFA goal scorer signing a chance. I had posted switching Weise and Sekac a few weeks ago. I agree with you bud. I don't think MT doesn't likes European blondes. I said it on HF. "Bowling balls are a dime a dozen. DSP reminds me of a bigger Begin, and Begin was a bowling ball." Useful, but you don't trade a guy with Sekac's ability for a bowling ball.
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Feb 24, 2015 14:07:01 GMT -5
Agreed.....And playing with Eller hasn't helped him much, but, if he is so talented he should have potted a goal or two in 2 months. Weise had helped Max's line getting it going some. Why didn't mtHead try changing the third line. Put Weise on it, and move Sekac up. Something. Give your UFA goal scorer signing a chance. Agreed, I think Sekac did play a shift or two on the top line, but that's hardly a taste.
|
|
|
Post by UberCranky on Feb 24, 2015 14:07:35 GMT -5
Wheeze a griinding teeeam!....yells MThead while sitting in the can.
We need size and grit for the playoffs so that what this is all about. Stops and ends there.
MB sees what a guy like Weise can do when the chips are on the line so he got a younger version of him. The only problem is that DSP has what looks like a 15 goal upside and Sekac a 30 goal upside. MB will look stupid is Sekac reaches his potential.
Okay with the trade.
Now we need serious scoring.
|
|
|
Post by Douper on Feb 24, 2015 14:07:43 GMT -5
We are in position to do damage in the playoffs. DSP gives us size and strength on the wing. I doubt MB is done. Sekac could be great or he could be Marcel Hossa. He's never scored 20+ goals in any league. We'll see in time. If Sekac plays with Perry and Getzlaf he'll have success, anyone would. We don't have Perry and Getzlaf. DSP was a 2nd rnd pick,played for Canada at the World Juniors has great hockey sense. He fills a need for now and the next few years.
With Sekac, we have Scherbak, McCarron, Hudon coming up. And even Thomas and Andrighetto. We don't have any DSP's coming up.
I think it's a win/win deal
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2015 14:12:41 GMT -5
The guy was averaging almost 14 minutes per game & was well over that in his last two. I think he got opportunities to show his stuff & didn't produce. I don't see a goal on his game log since Dec. 29th. And he spent most of this time with Lars 'Blackhole' Eller. In fact the whole bottom six haven't generated any offense. And that's something we've skirted around in our discussions. It's not just the lack of overall scoring, it's the black hole in our bottom 6. In trying to understand it, I've compared ppg from last year to this for the players. Please excuse the formatting. The table option looks very confusing regarding where to put the numbers. Name 2015 2014 Max .88 .82 DD .59 .66 Weise .41 .24 Combined Habs/Nucks in 2014 Pleks .69 .53 BGal .56 .51 AGal .63 .48 Prust .22 .25 Eller .30 .34 Sekac .32 Parenteau .38 .60 So what stands out as statistically interesting? Max is better, confirming what we see as him playing a better all around game, yet still scoring DD is worse than last year. Therrien had less patience with him this year and moved him down the line-up. Weise certainly looks like proof that playing a guy with better scorers is going to improve your numbers. Is he a top 6? Maybe not but he's scoring almost twice as much as last year. BGal - slight improvement, hard to judge properly (as with all the players) unless the actual ice time is factored in, but I'm keeping this simple. AGal - better, and we can see that from his play. He simply looks better, so the fact he's scoring more is not a surprise. Personally, I thought he'd be scoring more by this point. Prust - less than last year Eller - less than last year Sekac - no previous year to compare, but given he's played a lot with Eller and often ends up in defensive zone starts as a result, .32 isn't that bad. Better than Weise's .24 from the previous year, where both would be playing the same sorts of minutes (eg no PP time, third and fourth line stuff) Parenteau - really interesting. A drop of nearly half from the previous year, under a different system. Hard to compare directly because I don't know what lines he spent his time on last year, but this year he's been mostly on offensive lines and he has had PP time. Despite that uncertainty, the drop from .6 to .38 is huge. Anyway, take it as you will. I keep thinking of situations where players can be placed to succeed or fail. Last year, Seth Jones had a really good rookie year...paired, on his wrong side no less, with Shea Weber. Granted, he has a lot of skill, but he was put with the best, in a position to succeed. In that video clip of Larry Robinson in a recent post, he says he made a lot of mistakes, and Serge was there to cover for him. I know stats can be deceiving, but they can also be enlightening. It's up to the user to use them wisely. There's not a lot that comes out of the numbers above, but I think Weise's and Parenteau's are enlightening.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2015 14:15:56 GMT -5
This was tweeted by Marc Antione Godin That says it in a nutshell right there. Sometimes players say the right thing and don't realize they're saying more than they perhaps intended. For some reason, MT never liked Sekac. That was shown in the early benching, his lack of PP time and the fact he wasn't used on the shootout. MT can say what he wants as reasons, but he's been hypocritical before and I often don't believe him. He didn't like Sekac, simple as that. I'd sure like to sit down with Jiri over a beer and find out more.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2015 14:20:27 GMT -5
And he spent most of this time with Lars 'Blackhole' Eller. In fact the whole bottom six haven't generated any offense. And that's something we've skirted around in our discussions. It's not just the lack of overall scoring, it's the black hole in our bottom 6. In trying to understand it, I've compared ppg from last year to this for the players. Please excuse the formatting. The table option looks very confusing regarding where to put the numbers. Name 2015 2014 Max .88 .82 DD .59 .66 Weise .41 .24 Combined Habs/Nucks in 2014 Pleks .69 .53 BGal .56 .51 AGal .63 .48 Prust .22 .25 Eller .30 .34 Sekac .32 Parenteau .38 .60 So what stands out as statistically interesting? Max is better, confirming what we see as him playing a better all around game, yet still scoring DD is worse than last year. Therrien had less patience with him this year and moved him down the line-up. Weise certainly looks like proof that playing a guy with better scorers is going to improve your numbers. Is he a top 6? Maybe not but he's scoring almost twice as much as last year. BGal - slight improvement, hard to judge properly (as with all the players) unless the actual ice time is factored in, but I'm keeping this simple. AGal - better, and we can see that from his play. He simply looks better, so the fact he's scoring more is not a surprise. Personally, I thought he'd be scoring more by this point. Prust - less than last year Eller - less than last year Sekac - no previous year to compare, but given he's played a lot with Eller and often ends up in defensive zone starts as a result, .32 isn't that bad. Better than Weise's .24 from the previous year, where both would be playing the same sorts of minutes (eg no PP time, third and fourth line stuff) Parenteau - really interesting. A drop of nearly half from the previous year, under a different system. Hard to compare directly because I don't know what lines he spent his time on last year, but this year he's been mostly on offensive lines and he has had PP time. Despite that uncertainty, the drop from .6 to .38 is huge. Anyway, take it as you will. I keep thinking of situations where players can be placed to succeed or fail. Last year, Seth Jones had a really good rookie year...paired, on his wrong side no less, with Shea Weber. Granted, he has a lot of skill, but he was put with the best, in a position to succeed. In that video clip of Larry Robinson in a recent post, he says he made a lot of mistakes, and Serge was there to cover for him. I know stats can be deceiving, but they can also be enlightening. It's up to the user to use them wisely. There's not a lot that comes out of the numbers above, but I think Weise's and Parenteau's are enlightening. Edit - I forgot Pleks. His role is different this year, with Malhotra on board. More offensive zone starts, more offense expected, more offense delivered. Huge jump in PPG. I would have liked a Pleks, aGal, Sekac line.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Feb 24, 2015 14:31:33 GMT -5
Name 2015 2014 Max .88 .82 DD .59 .66 Weise .41 .24 Combined Habs/Nucks in 2014 Pleks .69 .53 BGal .56 .51 AGal .63 .48 Prust .22 .25 Eller .30 .34 Sekac .32 Parenteau .38 .60 can you imagine the numbers if we had an actual power play? that is where the coaching has really let "us" down.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2015 14:41:58 GMT -5
We are in position to do damage in the playoffs. DSP gives us size and strength on the wing. I doubt MB is done. Sekac could be great or he could be Marcel Hossa. He's never scored 20+ goals in any league. We'll see in time. If Sekac plays with Perry and Getzlaf he'll have success, anyone would. We don't have Perry and Getzlaf. DSP was a 2nd rnd pick,played for Canada at the World Juniors has great hockey sense. He fills a need for now and the next few years. With Sekac, we have Scherbak, McCarron, Hudon coming up. And even Thomas and Andrighetto. We don't have any DSP's coming up. I think it's a win/win deal Anyone would. That's where my mind races to, because Smith-Pelley started the year on the same line as Ryan Getlaf and Corey Perry. And yet, he wasnt able to produce anymore than Sekac did. Sekac, mind you, did it primarily from the second and third lines with no PP time and certainly no Getlafs or Perrys. The Ducks were so frustrated with Smith-Pelley's play, that they replaced him in the line-up with Rene Bourque. Rene Bourque!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 24, 2015 14:43:08 GMT -5
According to NHL.com, Devante Smith-Pelly is 6'0" 220 lbs ... built like a bull ... there must be something Bergevin likes in him or he wouldn't have gone out to get him ... good luck to Smith-Pelly and to Sekac as well ... mark Wednesday, March 4th, 10 PM ET ... this is when the Habs roll into Anaheim ... SN, RDS and FS-W will carry the game (yes, the game thread for that is almost done) ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Feb 24, 2015 14:44:13 GMT -5
Name 2015 2014 Max .88 .82 DD .59 .66 Weise .41 .24 Combined Habs/Nucks in 2014 Pleks .69 .53 BGal .56 .51 AGal .63 .48 Prust .22 .25 Eller .30 .34 Sekac .32 Parenteau .38 .60 can you imagine the numbers if we had an actual power play? that is where the coaching has really let "us" down. When you have a 3rd rate goon as your PP coach ...
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2015 14:55:45 GMT -5
It seems Smith-Pelley had similar problem to Sekac while in Anaheim .... he started the year on the Getzlaf-Perry line. Boudreau was thrilled with his play.
Then he got moved to the second line and replaced by Dany Heatley. Then he got injured, when he returned they placed him on a line with Emerson Etem and Nate Thompson Two weeks later they reunited him with Getzlaf
Then he went the full month of December scoring one goal (Dec 1) and eventually found himself on a line with Patrick Maroon and Rickard Rakell
Last week he was once again put on Getzlaf's line (prior Getzlaf and Perry being seperated).
And now he is traded. He certainly got more of a chance in Anaheim than Sekac did in Montreal
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 24, 2015 15:08:19 GMT -5
It's rather funny. We are missing the potential power forward that 22 year old DSP can become. We are also missing the talented secondary skilled scorer that 22 year old Sekac can become.
Time will tell who will get the better end of this deal, but we definitely started building for the playoffs and that style of game today, while sacrificing some potential offensive upside.
We still need scoring.
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Feb 24, 2015 15:21:18 GMT -5
It seems Smith-Pelley had similar problem to Sekac while in Anaheim .... he started the year on the Getzlaf-Perry line. Boudreau was thrilled with his play. Then he got moved to the second line and replaced by Dany Heatley. Then he got injured, when he returned they placed him on a line with Emerson Etem and Nate Thompson Two weeks later they reunited him with Getzlaf Then he went the full month of December scoring one goal (Dec 1) and eventually found himself on a line with Patrick Maroon and Rickard Rakell Last week he was once again put on Getzlaf's line (prior Getzlaf and Perry being seperated). And now he is traded. He certainly got more of a chance in Anaheim than Sekac did in Montreal Sekac will think he died and went to heaven playing with Getlaf and Perry instead of Eller and Prust. Sekac has everything a team in the West needs, size, strength, speed, ability to control the puck along the boards... funny enough it's what every team in the East needs too... including ours.
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Feb 24, 2015 15:26:04 GMT -5
This reminds me somewhat of the Hodgson for Kassian one for one swap of a couple years ago - the "skill" guy for the "tough" guy. It looked like Van had won this at the time it was made. However, Hodgson has regressed this year ( 2 goals) and Kassian is actually out scoring him.
I guess my point is that sometimes these trades take several seasons to play out.
|
|
|
Post by Disp on Feb 24, 2015 15:44:20 GMT -5
I'm not thrilled about losing Sekac, but at least we got a guy who hits people. 14 minutes a game and about 150 hits is pretty good. Like some other guys have touched on, he hasn't necessarily peaked yet either. He could become a power forward type, which is an obvious need on this team. I know we were pretty pumped about Sekac's potential, but guys like SP sometimes take awhile to get up to speed.
|
|
|
Post by duster on Feb 24, 2015 15:48:52 GMT -5
Sekac's agent is Allan Walsh. The same agent as Halak back in the day. I haven't looked at any of his tweets but perhaps he's been up to his old tricks i.e. criticize the Habs publicly for not playing his client. It make me wonder if Sekac asked to be traded. It's clear MT didn't like him or had no idea how to use him.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2015 16:04:10 GMT -5
This reminds me somewhat of the Hodgson for Kassian one for one swap of a couple years ago - the "skill" guy for the "tough" guy. It looked like Van had won this at the time it was made. However, Hodgson has regressed this year ( 2 goals) and Kassian is actually out scoring him. I guess my point is that sometimes these trades take several seasons to play out. If they acquired Smith Pelly for the playoffs, then this trade has 20 games and a playoff run to pan out
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 24, 2015 16:21:02 GMT -5
I'm still trying to get some comfort with this trade. The only thing i can come up with is that we basically got SP for nothing. Sekac could have gone to a dozen teams last summer. He chose us and we gave up nothing. So we now have SP instead of Sekac. So it will always be a plus. BUT boy it is going to hurt if and when Sekac becomes a top 30 scorer in this league. i think he has all the tools.
Wonder how Sekac feels after being wooed by MTL only to be dissed by MT. Were the ducks in the hunt last year for Sekac?
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Feb 24, 2015 16:30:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 24, 2015 16:41:27 GMT -5
Feels like we gave up the better player, but I'm going to give MB the benefit of the doubt for now. I like Sekac's skill with the puck and his ability to gain the zone/possession, but the production hasn't been there and I'm not sure his ceiling is much better than a 3rd liner.
DSP is a different player, maybe more of a Therrien type of player which is cause for concern since MT routinely misuses players. Neither player solves the scoring problem, so I guess Berg thinks DSP is a better fit for the stretch run and playoffs.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 24, 2015 16:56:51 GMT -5
It seems Smith-Pelley had similar problem to Sekac while in Anaheim .... he started the year on the Getzlaf-Perry line. Boudreau was thrilled with his play. Then he got moved to the second line and replaced by Dany Heatley. Then he got injured, when he returned they placed him on a line with Emerson Etem and Nate Thompson Two weeks later they reunited him with Getzlaf Then he went the full month of December scoring one goal (Dec 1) and eventually found himself on a line with Patrick Maroon and Rickard Rakell Last week he was once again put on Getzlaf's line (prior Getzlaf and Perry being seperated). And now he is traded. He certainly got more of a chance in Anaheim than Sekac did in Montreal This scenario kind of reminds me of Brian Savage's dilemma back in the day ... I think the line was Recchi/Koivu/Savage ... Mario Tremblay announces that Savage will be moved to the second line to get that line scoring ... next time I read something on this, Savage is demoted to the third line and is quoted as saying (paraphrase) "... I know I have to play better to get back on the first line" ... DSP's situation is someone similar, I find anyway ... as for Sekac, at one point in the season he/Eller/Prust were arguably the best line we had if only for a little while ... Therrien splits them up, they are eventually reunited but they never find that chemistry again ... now both DSP and Sekac are on different teams ... yes, time will tell, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Sekac will be playing with a lot more talented players in Anaheim ... DSP has a good rep and hopefully he'll help with the playoff drive ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2015 16:57:37 GMT -5
Feels like we gave up the better player, but I'm going to give MB the benefit of the doubt for now. I like Sekac's skill with the puck and his ability to gain the zone/possession, but the production hasn't been there and I'm not sure his ceiling is much better than a 3rd liner. DSP is a different player, maybe more of a Therrien type of player which is cause for concern since MT routinely misuses players. Neither player solves the scoring problem, so I guess Berg thinks DSP is a better fit for the stretch run and playoffs. That's my take so far. The only area IMO where we might come out better is if DSP is better suited to the playoffs than Sekac is. Canadian kids seem to take the Stanley Cup more seriously than Europeans, simple because of how they're brought up. So we might get more intensity in the playoffs from DSP (I wonder if his nickname will be Georges?) than from Jiri. Could be.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2015 17:05:38 GMT -5
The media is saying we made a good trade simply because we got "bigger" . I have yet to hear any report say we got better, or we will now score more goals.
Devante's (that's a football name!) hits will be welcomed, and I'm sure MB is not done ... But I don't see how we just got better. He will slot into the third line with Prust and Eller. And if he isn't in St Louis right now, our line up tonight will be interesting.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Feb 24, 2015 17:06:33 GMT -5
It seems Smith-Pelley had similar problem to Sekac while in Anaheim .... he started the year on the Getzlaf-Perry line. Boudreau was thrilled with his play. Then he got moved to the second line and replaced by Dany Heatley. Then he got injured, when he returned they placed him on a line with Emerson Etem and Nate Thompson Two weeks later they reunited him with Getzlaf Then he went the full month of December scoring one goal (Dec 1) and eventually found himself on a line with Patrick Maroon and Rickard Rakell Last week he was once again put on Getzlaf's line (prior Getzlaf and Perry being seperated). And now he is traded. He certainly got more of a chance in Anaheim than Sekac did in Montreal This scenario kind of reminds me of Brian Savage's dilemma back in the day ... I think the line was Recchi/Koivu/Savage ... Mario Tremblay announces that Savage will be moved to the second line to get that line scoring ... next time I read something on this, Savage is demoted to the third line and is quoted as saying (paraphrase) "... I know I have to play better to get back on the first line" ... DSP's situation is someone similar, I find anyway ... as for Sekac, at one point in the season he/Eller/Prust were arguably the best line we had if only for a little while ... Therrien splits them up, they are eventually reunited but they never find that chemistry again ... now both DSP and Sekac are on different teams ... yes, time will tell, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Sekac will be playing with a lot more talented players in Anaheim ... DSP has a good rep and hopefully he'll help with the playoff drive ... Cheers. At least Mr October got the chances.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 24, 2015 17:09:07 GMT -5
This scenario kind of reminds me of Brian Savage's dilemma back in the day ... I think the line was Recchi/Koivu/Savage ... Mario Tremblay announces that Savage will be moved to the second line to get that line scoring ... next time I read something on this, Savage is demoted to the third line and is quoted as saying (paraphrase) "... I know I have to play better to get back on the first line" ... DSP's situation is someone similar, I find anyway ... as for Sekac, at one point in the season he/Eller/Prust were arguably the best line we had if only for a little while ... Therrien splits them up, they are eventually reunited but they never find that chemistry again ... now both DSP and Sekac are on different teams ... yes, time will tell, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Sekac will be playing with a lot more talented players in Anaheim ... DSP has a good rep and hopefully he'll help with the playoff drive ... Cheers. At least Mr October got the chances. My point was, in each scenario I cited things were working out well for the players until they were moved ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Feb 24, 2015 17:09:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 24, 2015 17:17:10 GMT -5
The media is saying we made a good trade simply because we got "bigger" . I have yet to hear any report say we got better, or we will now score more goals. Devante's (that's a football name!) hits will be welcomed, and I'm sure MB is not done ... But I don't see how we just got better. He will slot into the third line with Prust and Eller. And if he isn't in St Louis right now, our line up tonight will be interesting. Don't have much time for these talking heads. I never saw Sekac as playing 'small'. He's bigger than SP and while hitting may not be his preferred option I never saw him shy away from the corners, the front of the net or the rough stuff. And I saw him throw some good hits. i don't think the media has even seen him play. I had to laugh at Huston and his side kick when we played TO a few weeks ago. They were astonished at Beau's skill, Sekac's play, and even how BGal goes to the net. Really? These guys focus only on TO and rarely have a look at other teams and their 2nd and 3rd lines. and I'm sure these media types have seen SP even less. I know what I saw when i watched Sekac and I am very sorry to see us giving up on him.
|
|