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Post by franko on Feb 25, 2015 18:46:14 GMT -5
Sekac interviewed on TSN690. said he thought he was brought in as a scorer but not given the opportunity (leading questions).
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Post by jkr on Feb 25, 2015 18:54:55 GMT -5
Sekac interviewed on TSN690. said he thought he was brought in as a scorer but not given the opportunity (leading questions). Don't jump all over me. I understand the value of advanced stats. But Sekac had 2 assists in his last 20 games. Surely, despite disadvantages, he should have produced more than that over the last two months? Just once I'd like to see a player take at least some responsibility for his lack of production instead of blaming circumstances.
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Post by franko on Feb 25, 2015 19:55:20 GMT -5
Sekac interviewed on TSN690. said he thought he was brought in as a scorer but not given the opportunity (leading questions). Don't jump all over me. I understand the value of advanced stats. But Sekac had 2 assists in his last 20 games. Surely, despite disadvantages, he should have produced more than that over the last two months? Just once I'd like to see a player take at least some responsibility for his lack of production instead of blaming circumstances. Like I said, he was asked leading questions. He was very careful not to blame MT or anyone else. Marinaro did that.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 25, 2015 20:27:01 GMT -5
Sekac interviewed on TSN690. said he thought he was brought in as a scorer but not given the opportunity (leading questions). Don't jump all over me. I understand the value of advanced stats. But Sekac had 2 assists in his last 20 games. Surely, despite disadvantages, he should have produced more than that over the last two months? Just once I'd like to see a player take at least some responsibility for his lack of production instead of blaming circumstances. The stats show he was creating chances ... They were really good at the possession stats, despite having to play against the Crosby's ET al. with offensive zone starts. I still think it is funny that people are blaming Sekac and Eller for not producing in two months, but the other guys that were on the line with them are not even mentioned ... No one on the bottom six has produced in the last two months. They were told to play defense first, and they did. Even when there was an offensive role opened on the team, the guys people are complaining about not producing weren't given a chance to play in an offensive role, People want to believe Sekac was playing against the scrubs of the league. He was playing some of the toughest minutes (competition wise) and when your coaches are telling your team mates stuff like "it doesn't matter if you get two scoring chances if you give up six" and you are a rookie, then guess what, those rookies are not going to think offense first.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 25, 2015 21:13:11 GMT -5
If MT is guilty of misusing, stifling, and ruining Sekac's chances in Montreal, it will be evident later if not sooner.
Many thought he was guilty of doing the same with Subban….and Beau-nordi. As well as Eller.
I don't know what to think….but if it's all true…then why did MB reward MT with a 4-year extension?
Either MB is fooled by Price's play and doesn't see what a lot surmise/profess to know about MT…in which case, MB is just as much at fault….. Or….MT isn't guilty of those things, and MB is most-confident that their plan is going accordingly.
IMO….MB appears to be a poster-boy for due diligence and efficiency.
If MB felt that strongly about Sekac's potential, he wouldn't have given up on him after only 3/4 of his rookie season. Not for a player like DSP. (Unless MT lowered Sekac's trade value….that's always a possibility….which would foster animosity between the GM and Head Coach, I would think.)
Hey….something about MT raises my hackles, too….but I admit it goes back to his first stint here…as well as the fact that the Pens sprinted to a Cup after he was fired.
And so I put forward this proposition: Other than Price being responsible for a whole whack of our success this year, perhaps Therrien really has learned from his past errors…and he and Berg are completely on the same page.
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Post by franko on Feb 25, 2015 22:11:08 GMT -5
And so I put forward this proposition: Other than Price being responsible for a whole whack of our success this year, perhaps Therrien really has learned from his past errors…and he and Berg are completely on the same page. the possibility boggles the mind, doesn't it?
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 25, 2015 22:35:48 GMT -5
Watching the sens ducks game and sekac is #46
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 25, 2015 22:45:04 GMT -5
Sekac is with Kesler and silferberg
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Post by habsorbed on Feb 25, 2015 23:09:13 GMT -5
Sekac is with Kesler and silferberg Glad to hear he is playing as the "Injury Report" had him "day to day" due to visa problems
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Post by habsorbed on Feb 25, 2015 23:13:55 GMT -5
I think we have 5 pages (working on 6) because: 1) the trade came out of the blue and stunned many of us as Sekac is and will be a player; 2) some of us saw Sekac as our future. We have not had a young big skating skilled winger since Max and look where he is now; 3) Sekac's play did not disappoint and he played well for his first year in NA and the NHL, seemed to do everything asked of him; 4) He was never given an honest chance - hard to believe with our struggling pp for most of the year Sekac wasn't given an opportunity; 5) He may be a 30 if not 40 goal scorer - SP not likely. SP may work out but I invested a lot into Sekac believing he was our future - silly me! GO SP GO!!! For those of you who still question my ability to predict the future: we are now on page 6 and counting! I will predict that Sekac will have twice as many points as SP the rest of the season. Some may say that SP was not brought in to score. If that's the case then don't talk about Sekac's low production on the 3rd line. He was never given a chance! That's my story and i'm sticking to it. Boy, do I hope i'm wrong!
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Post by Disp on Feb 26, 2015 7:32:27 GMT -5
Well we are up 5-0 in team scoring since the deal, that should count.
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Post by jkr on Feb 26, 2015 7:38:17 GMT -5
Don't jump all over me. I understand the value of advanced stats. But Sekac had 2 assists in his last 20 games. Surely, despite disadvantages, he should have produced more than that over the last two months? Just once I'd like to see a player take at least some responsibility for his lack of production instead of blaming circumstances. The stats show he was creating chances ... They were really good at the possession stats, despite having to play against the Crosby's ET al. with offensive zone starts. I still think it is funny that people are blaming Sekac and Eller for not producing in two months, but the other guys that were on the line with them are not even mentioned ... No one on the bottom six has produced in the last two months. They were told to play defense first, and they did. Even when there was an offensive role opened on the team, the guys people are complaining about not producing weren't given a chance to play in an offensive role, People want to believe Sekac was playing against the scrubs of the league. He was playing some of the toughest minutes (competition wise) and when your coaches are telling your team mates stuff like "it doesn't matter if you get two scoring chances if you give up six" and you are a rookie, then guess what, those rookies are not going to think offense first. Skilly, I just have difficulty getting past this stat - 2 assists in 2 months of hockey. Surely someone with skill would produce more than that. He was getting about 14 minutes per game according to ESPN.com Some games I saw numbers as high as 18 minutes.
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Post by Douper on Feb 26, 2015 7:54:06 GMT -5
I think we have 5 pages (working on 6) because: 1) the trade came out of the blue and stunned many of us as Sekac is and will be a player; 2) some of us saw Sekac as our future. We have not had a young big skating skilled winger since Max and look where he is now; 3) Sekac's play did not disappoint and he played well for his first year in NA and the NHL, seemed to do everything asked of him; 4) He was never given an honest chance - hard to believe with our struggling pp for most of the year Sekac wasn't given an opportunity; 5) He may be a 30 if not 40 goal scorer - SP not likely. SP may work out but I invested a lot into Sekac believing he was our future - silly me! GO SP GO!!! For those of you who still question my ability to predict the future: we are now on page 6 and counting! I will predict that Sekac will have twice as many points as SP the rest of the season. Some may say that SP was not brought in to score. If that's the case then don't talk about Sekac's low production on the 3rd line. He was never given a chance! That's my story and i'm sticking to it. Boy, do I hope i'm wrong! So Sekac will score 2 and DSP will score 1
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 26, 2015 8:03:37 GMT -5
Well we are up 5-0 in team scoring since the deal, that should count. And the Sens goalie who shut them out was none other than Andrew Hammond, the journeyman never-was who we were supposed to light up a couple of games back. Hammond must be thinking he's died and gone to heaven. I betcha even he thought he was a mediocre AHL goalie with a dying career, and here he is in the NHL; 3 starts, 3 wins, 1.50 goals against average and a .948 save percentage. They make Disney movies out of guys like this. As for Sekac, stats, advanced stats and all that, the problem I have is that these stats need to be put into context, and they don't always encapsulate what a team is trying to do, or all that a player can bring to the ice. The counter-argument to advanced stats is always "Raphael Diaz and Benoit Pouliot". Both were and are advanced stats darlings. Heck, Diaz was supposed to anchor the Canucks top 4 this season, whereas Dale Weise was supposed to be down in the ECHL, that's how bad he is. But for everything advanced stats bring to the table - and they bring a lot - they still miss on some things that hockey players have to have. For example, what would be the advanced stat on Diaz winning a board battle? Clearing a player from the front of the net? Taking a hit to make a play? Standing up for a teammate in a scrum? How many players come to HIS rescue during a scrum? You could quantify that if you wanted to, but you'd have to watch the game. Is that ALL that goes into being a hockey player? Of course not. But hockey is a game that relies A LOT on intimidation, and you cannot ignore that. I'm not talking about fights, but hits and physical play in general. A player that makes great passes in the first period but is "slow" to get to the puck in the corner in the third period is a player that has become intimidated. That won't show up in the advanced stats of course, but it is part of the "eye test". I'm not saying any of this applies to Sekac, but just making a general comment about the viability of scouting through numbers. It has it's place yes, but it cannot be the only part of the story. I like Marc Bergevin, and I really like what he has done to the organization in terms of bringing it into the 21st century. After a decade of " l'equipe c'est moi" general managers in Gauthier, Gainey and Savard we finally have a "modern" GM who recognizes that you have to surround yourself with a team. So far the results have been very, very good. Has Team Bergevin lost a trade yet? Seriously, has he? Most have either been pushes (Bourque for Allen, Budaj for Tangradi), or outright wins (Weise for Diaz, Tokarski for Desjardins). MAYBE the Vanek deal can be considered a loss, given how Vanek performed in the playoffs, but on the other hand he was very good for us down the stretch, helped push Pacioretty into elite status, and the team DID make it to the Conference Finals. So... That doesn't meant he "won" the Sekac for Smith-Pelly deal or that we shouldn't debate it (why have these boards if we can't?) but I think we do have to recognize that in some cases the stats as we know them are probably not what pushed them to make a deal. I'm sure they are aware of them, but I would bet they have a bunch of other stats too that tell them this is a good risk to take.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 26, 2015 8:45:03 GMT -5
And so I put forward this proposition: Other than Price being responsible for a whole whack of our success this year, perhaps Therrien really has learned from his past errors…and he and Berg are completely on the same page. To quote Warren G. Bennis, "Leaders are people who do the right thing; managers are people who do things right" ... I can only use my military experience to compare the GM-coach relationship ... if the leadership isn't on the same page then nothing works ... and I'm not only talking about top-end leadership, I'm talking about leadership all thro the rank and file, too ... Bergevin, Therrien and the dressing room leadership had all better be on the same page or things will not work ... I know the Habs have the "from failing hands ..." motto in the dressing room and that's important ... however, I think Thomas Paine's quote "Lead, follow, or get out of the way" (we used "lead, follow or step aside" in the military) might best-reflect the dressing room dynamic ... there's a commitment to winning not only in that room, but also at the coaching and managerial levels, also ... I think we've always had that mindset in Montreal, but it's the first time since Serge Savard where I've seen the club actually back that up ... Cheers.
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Post by blny on Feb 26, 2015 8:57:51 GMT -5
The right decision isn't always the popular one. The boss can't afford to be popular. Sekac may never amount to much, but I'd still argue the sample size was too small, and a role he wasn't signed for.
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Post by jkr on Feb 26, 2015 9:15:01 GMT -5
The right decision isn't always the popular one. The boss can't afford to be popular. Sekac may never amount to much, but I'd still argue the sample size was too small, and a role he wasn't signed for. I was looking for a player comparable to Sekac - comparable in the sense of - age, size, KHL background, ice time, position, etc. I came across Evgeny Kuznetsov of Washington. He's a young (22) KHL vet who has had good seasons in the KHL - a couple of 19 goal years in their shortened season. I wasn't looking at advanced stats. I was more interested to see if KHL success translates to NHL success. His ice time averages about 13 minutes. Over the course of 77 games over 2 years he has 9 goals. Now I know it's early in his NHL career but he's probably not scoring at the pace the Capitals were expecting. I think it will be interesting to watch both these players as they develop over the next few seasons. If the KHL financial issues worsen perhaps more players will defect to the NHL.
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Post by blny on Feb 26, 2015 9:23:05 GMT -5
I haven't watched Kuznetsov closely, so I can't say if he's the type of KHL player capable of adapting to the NHL game or not. I have no idea where EK is playing in their line up. He had 9 points in 17 games last year. Big drop off this year. He may well be the perimeter type of player, who shies away from contact
In watching Sekac, I saw a player who was engaged. Sekac is listed as 20lbs heavier as well.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 26, 2015 10:36:40 GMT -5
I always think of the Sam Pollock mindset….and it's pre-mature to assert that Bergevin is in that class….but one can hope. "There could only be one boss, one person in charge of where the team and the organization were going to go," declared Pollock. "Responding to the media , or playing to the media, or listening to the fans is the quickest way to start losing. The fans are great, but the thing they respect most is a winner. Don't get me wrong, we were very conscious of our fans. But we ran the team. The thing that the fans know the least is managing a sports franchise. They have their favourites and strong emotional attachments with them. A sports administrator who wants to be successful can never think that way."So while we'll always have our opinions, barbed criticisms, and outright outrage…I think we have to look at the GM's track record. As BC has outlined, Berg certainly warrants support to date.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 26, 2015 11:10:13 GMT -5
This thread is certainly expanding from a discussion about a simple trade.
Hammond, above. He's a very good example of why one can't make snap judgments. I simply don't think he's suddenly blossomed (though that's possible). The team may be working extra hard to protect him from rebounds etc or he may be hyper sensitive to what he sees because of the situation he's been thrust into and is making great saves as a result. Let's see what he's like in a month or two.
Kuznetsov - I'd take him in a heartbeat. I really like his skill set. Haven't seen enough to judge his character, but my initial impressions of how he'll turn out are very good.
Berg - At some point he's going to 'lose' a trade, if for no other reason than the law of averages. To counter BC (because someone has to), I can only think of one trade where he's out and out won handily (the Weise for Diaz deal). The rest IMO, well, they're all pretty meh. Thomas for Kristo may turn out well, and we have the advantage so far, but still we're talking lower end players so far. We gained Devan Dubnyk for future considerations and that was a waste of something, but it might be pennies as well. Gorges for a 2nd rounder is uncertain, maybe 55/45 for the Sabres so far. And so on and so on. I think Berg's done a very good job, with most of the good stuff coming on the management side, dealing with the CAP, putting good people in place in the organization and keeping good people. Naturally you know I'm not crazy about his coaching choices, but that's a personal opinion, shared by a minority. That too will take some time to judge. A Stanley Cup parade will go a long way to changing my opinion (or not, if Price wins the Conn Smythe hands down).
I'm certainly enjoying winning and watching guys like Patches, PK, Price, Galchenyuk, etc develop and carry us along.
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Post by blny on Feb 26, 2015 11:28:46 GMT -5
This thread is certainly expanding from a discussion about a simple trade. It's definitely gone into the philosophical area.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 26, 2015 12:26:15 GMT -5
Found this on another site ... interesting comments by Sekac on his former coach ... he never knew his role, I guess ... Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 26, 2015 12:45:46 GMT -5
He doesn't sound angry, even if the writer tries to make it come across that way. I think you need to juggle lines at times, especially if they're not working. I think you have to be careful in the process, that you don't disrupt another line that's working well and you should limit the juggling to allow for consistency, but I think most coaches juggle lines to improve chemistry, production, or kick someone in the butt. Fact of life. Sekac admits he wasn't mad about it, but like most Europeans, his honesty contains a few kernels, namely "I never knew what my role was". I think Sekac is smart enough to figure out that if he's on the 3rd line, with a lot of defensive zone starts, that his role is a defensive one, or if he's on the 2nd line it's more likely an offensive role. His comment suggests that there aren't many individual discussions between a player and the coach, though, or perhaps I'm reading too much into it.
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Post by franko on Feb 26, 2015 12:52:44 GMT -5
he acquitted himself quite well in his interview on TSN690. he was pushed and he was prodded and he was encouraged to say something . . . but he didn't . . . disappointment came through, but not bitterness.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 26, 2015 13:01:28 GMT -5
he acquitted himself quite well in his interview on TSN690. he was pushed and he was prodded and he was encouraged to say something . . . but he didn't . . . disappointment came through, but not bitterness. That's noteworthy, Franko ... it's hard to say the right things all the time when you're as young as he is ... not everyone has that kind of maturity at his age ... Cheers.
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Post by franko on Feb 26, 2015 13:10:31 GMT -5
he acquitted himself quite well in his interview on TSN690. he was pushed and he was prodded and he was encouraged to say something . . . but he didn't . . . disappointment came through, but not bitterness. That's noteworthy, Franko ... it's hard to say the right things all the time when you're as young as he is ... not everyone has that kind of maturity at his age ... Cheers. Exactly what I thought, Dis
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Post by habsorbed on Feb 26, 2015 13:35:27 GMT -5
For those of you who still question my ability to predict the future: we are now on page 6 and counting! I will predict that Sekac will have twice as many points as SP the rest of the season. Some may say that SP was not brought in to score. If that's the case then don't talk about Sekac's low production on the 3rd line. He was never given a chance! That's my story and i'm sticking to it. Boy, do I hope i'm wrong! So Sekac will score 2 and DSP will score 1 Never suggested my predictions, even when accurate, had any value ( i.e. 6 pages and counting of this thread)
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Post by Douper on Feb 26, 2015 14:05:30 GMT -5
So Sekac will score 2 and DSP will score 1 Never suggested my predictions, even when accurate, had any value ( i.e. 6 pages and counting of this thread) Just making fun of the fact they have 2 goals in 51 games, With 22 left they'd be on a torrid pace with 2 and 1 goals respectively lol
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Post by seventeen on Feb 26, 2015 14:29:19 GMT -5
No one's gotten on Malhotra, have they, for his lack of production? Just seeing if we can get this thread to 7 pages. Dyment is still miles away and that was a philosophical debate as well.
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Post by Polarice on Feb 26, 2015 14:54:35 GMT -5
No one's gotten on Malhotra, have they, for his lack of production? Just seeing if we can get this thread to 7 pages. Dyment is still miles away and that was a philosophical debate as well. Skilly already mentioned Malhotra. My comment was that Malhotra wasn't signed to score points but to win faceoffs and play defensive hockey.....points are just a bonus.
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