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Post by CentreHice on Mar 10, 2015 21:11:08 GMT -5
That was brutal.
If not for Price...we're looking at a blowout.
Screw the first game back after a long road trip excuse.
Since the deadline...1-2-2.
What has happened to Galchenyuk? He's been nowhere near the net for quite a while now.
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Post by franko on Mar 10, 2015 21:12:40 GMT -5
out played out worked, full value to the Bolts.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Mar 10, 2015 21:15:53 GMT -5
Wow. Tampa scares the crap out of me. Relentless on the puck all night, super quick in transition, dictated the play all night. The sad thing is I don't think we played all that bad. Tampa was just better in every phase and we were lucky to get a point. How are they still behind us in the standings? I want no part of them in the playoffs.
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Post by jkr on Mar 10, 2015 21:17:06 GMT -5
1 goal scored in the last 2 games. Nice effort guys.
Gilbert is awful & not just on the winner. I don't care what the analytics people say - he's a turnover machine & he looked particularly bad on the winner. Gallagher worked hard as usual but Galchenyuk was invisible.
They needed to make a statement tonight That statement was we can't score and rely totally on our goalie to win games.
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Post by Disp on Mar 10, 2015 21:20:06 GMT -5
Couldn't handle the bolts speed and tenacity. They were very impressive. On the puck all game long.
I'll never be happy when the habs lose, but wake up calls are sometimes a good thing. We've pretty much clinched a spot already, some adversity might help in the long run. Get the boys to raise their game a bit.
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 10, 2015 21:32:44 GMT -5
I agree that Tampa has more talent and a better coach.
But 2 shots in the third period at home.
Really? That's ridiculous.
If we're supposed to be a contending team with a #1 line like that....ha!
Therrien: Our team was ready to play. This is a good hockey team (Tampa). Lots of speed. Tough to play against. The more the game went on, the less energy we had....due to that long trip. That first game back is always demanding to play. Carey was phenomenal again...and we got one point. Only 2 shots in the third period was because of the lack of energy. We worked extremely hard. We are in first place....and who would've thought that? I have a lot of respect for the guys.
Good thing Price wasn't tired, eh, MT?
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Post by blny on Mar 10, 2015 21:49:32 GMT -5
They have our number big time. Not getting out of the east if they can't beat them.
Re Galchenyuk, he's been bounced around so much his head has to be spinning. "We're going to put him at center, he's ready." "He's not ready, so let's move him back to the wing." "We're going to try him on the RW to take advantage of his shot." "Back to the LW, just because." He's bounced around more than any player locked into the top 6.
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Post by del on Mar 10, 2015 22:01:13 GMT -5
I believe Galchenyuk is playing hurt. I think it was the LA game where he was in the slot area ready to release a shot but got piled up by two or three LA players. He came out the pileup in a rather awkward manner suggesting an injury as he skated back the bench in a rather protective mode. He did play the rest of the game but not with the same gusto and drive that he normally displays. He played tonites game in the very same manner with tentative, choppy turns not crisp and smooth.There seems to be no strength in his stride anymore. He is playing like non threatening player with no creativity because he can't pivot and dipsy doodle to create the "time and space" that he needs to be elusive with the puck.
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 10, 2015 22:01:59 GMT -5
The Sens have also had our number.
What's the excuse gonna be when we're goal-starved again on Thursday?
We have a chance to send the Sens reeling. They will be desperate!
If we sit back and play it safe, like we usually do....we will lose again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 22:07:44 GMT -5
The penalties were 4-1 for us, too. That really kills momentum. Gotta be better disciplined.
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Post by jkr on Mar 10, 2015 22:14:40 GMT -5
I agree that Tampa has more talent and a better coach. But 2 shots in the third period at home. Really? That's ridiculous. If we're supposed to be a contending team with a #1 line like that....ha! Therrien: Our team was ready to play. This is a good hockey team (Tampa). Lots of speed. Tough to play against. The more the game went on, the less energy we had....due to that long trip. That first game back is always demanding to play. Carey was phenomenal again...and we got one point. Only 2 shots in the third period was because of the lack of energy. We worked extremely hard. We are in first place....and who would've thought that? I have a lot of respect for the guys. Good thing Price wasn't tired, eh, MT? Agreed. Plus the only good scoring chance I saw all game was De La Rose on Pacioretty's rebound in the 2nd. That's it. One gilt edge chance in 61 minutes. They lead the league in defense but are 21st in offense behind even Toronto & Philly.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 10, 2015 23:51:10 GMT -5
I disagree that they have more talent than us. I think like John Tavares, who was quoted by Bob McKenzie in his recent book, that he refuses to give goalies (other teams) credit because it makes them better in your own mind. Nope, I truly think its the first game back syndrome, because I've seen it happen to so many other teams with no reasonable explanation for it. Maybe their spouses and partners are demanding too much of their time and they lose their hockey focus, but whatever it is, it happens. We can't lose as much energy as we did in the second half of the game. I actually agree with MT in that regard. Is Hedberg better than PK (who had a poor game? Is Garrison better than Markov (wo also played badly)? Is Coburn better than Petry? No on all counts and it continues through the defence. Yes, they probably have two forwards better than any of ours, but we're better in goal and I think overall it's pretty even. They played better than we did today. We weren't quick enough on the puck and with the puck.
The one area they really are better than us is behind the bench, I think. Cooper is more creative and more flexible in his thinking. There's always a guy in the middle so there are 3 options for zone clearance. And they move the puck quickly and with better close support. We have that long pass that we try to use, but that puts huge pressure on the defence to make that pass and if anything is blocked, the forwards are too far away to support quickly.
Our lack of scoring is really troubling. It seems Therrien has managed to instill a strong defensive culture, but at the cost of hurting the scoring ability of each of our players. I find it amazing that guys come to Montreal and their scoring drops. It's like a law of nature. And I love good defence, but you have to have a balance because if it tips too far, you end up with us....a team that can't shoot straight. I sure hope that Galchy is hurt, because otherwise, his scoring ability has taken a vacation. He lost a lot of board puck battles for the puck today. Usually he's strong enough that he wins those stick battles, but today I don't think I saw him win one. In either zone. I hate that because he's a real favourite of mine. LIke I said, I hope he's injured because the alternative is not good.
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Post by habsorbed on Mar 11, 2015 1:48:00 GMT -5
Can't keep playing like this. MT has to change the anemic lines. Too many games with little offensive push. The PP clearly has to be altered - it is pathetic at all levels: gaining the zone, dump ins, retrieval, passing, shooting.
On D I think Markov needs a rest. I'm very impressed with Petry. Everyone raving about the Petry/Gilbert combo. Always looks to me that Petry is saving Gilbert's bacon after Glberts screw up. Can we please try Petry with anyone else. How about Petry and Beau so Beau can get more ice time and then play Gonchar and Gilbert as 5 and 6 so Gonchar has an easy stretch of low minutes into the playoffs.
None of these suggested changes will happen nor any others as MT is a stubborn a$$. How far could we go with a coach and Carey. Wow!
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Post by frozone on Mar 11, 2015 6:56:14 GMT -5
Wow. Tampa scares the crap out of me. Relentless on the puck all night, super quick in transition, dictated the play all night. The sad thing is I don't think we played all that bad. Tampa was just better in every phase and we were lucky to get a point. How are they still behind us in the standings? I want no part of them in the playoffs. Yup, I don't think we should criticize the effort too much. I didn't see anyone dogging it, other than a few players who just had bad games (PK, Max, DD and Gilbert imo). I think our system/gameplan just doesn't measure up to Tampa's. Our first period was pretty good though.
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Post by Gogie on Mar 11, 2015 7:48:02 GMT -5
Not sure if the Habs can play physically consistently, but there was a brief minute or so where they played the body and made a few good hits (Markov, Smith-Pelley) and dominated the Bolts. As I recall, they played a physical game right out of the gate against New Jersey a while back and dominated that game as well. Last night for the most part the Habs looked like a woman's team (no disrespect to the ladies, I think they're great hockey players, just don't hit) - just kept skating around and avoided contact. Why is it that TB can consistently keep possession in our end but we get once chance at best in their end and then give up the puck?
Need more commitment from the lads as far as I'm concerned. That said, I'm not worried about the playoffs (yet). I think they know how to bring it, just don't do it consistently during the regular season.
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Post by Disp on Mar 11, 2015 7:49:32 GMT -5
Didn't lose because of a system or a gameplan. Lost because Tampa was better. There is no gameplan or system that calls for turning the puck over in our end or through the neutral zone. It's execution. On this night, it wasn't working, for whatever reason.
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 11, 2015 8:17:49 GMT -5
I too, am willing to give them the "first game back" excuse. I thought we were with them for the first half of the game, and as Gogie said, playing them pretty physical, but then the legs seemed to run out of gas in the third. Plus it's Tampa, and they're a very, very good team.
The East is going to be REALLY tough this year. Ain't one team in the top eight I will be overly enthusiastic about facing. Not even Boston, who I think we will be vastly underrating.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 11, 2015 8:30:32 GMT -5
I too, am willing to give them the "first game back" excuse. I thought we were with them for the first half of the game, and as Gogie said, playing them pretty physical, but then the legs seemed to run out of gas in the third. Plus it's Tampa, and they're a very, very good team. The East is going to be REALLY tough this year. Ain't one team in the top eight I will be overly enthusiastic about facing. Not even Boston, who I think we will be vastly underrating. Saw the game ... had one of those feelings the Habs weren't going to score as early as the first period ... just no sustained pressure on Bishop ... Tampa's team defense was tight all game ... there's a lot of talk about Tampa and the Rangers, but one other team being taken for granted (I find, anyway) is Pittsburgh ... won't matter who we play in the playoffs ... there's no easy games for this team ... Cheers.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Mar 11, 2015 8:34:49 GMT -5
Cooper is more creative and more flexible in his thinking. There's always a guy in the middle so there are 3 options for zone clearance. And they move the puck quickly and with better close support. We have that long pass that we try to use, but that puts huge pressure on the defence to make that pass and if anything is blocked, the forwards are too far away to support quickly. I think this is a great point. I saw a lot of zone breakouts for Tampa that went through the middle, which is traditionally a no-no. They skate the puck out with authority and they aren't afraid to use the middle of the ice. We only use the middle for long stretch passes. Tampa has a system geared to a high tempo that exploits their skill. The sad part is I think we have the players to do that, but they aren't coached that way. With the emergence of Beaulieu and the addition of Petry, we have the mobility on defense and enough skill upfront to play a Tampa style game. But we don't. Because Therrien doesn't want to play that way. He sees the record and Carey Price and feels no compulsion to change anything. Play it safe, don't make risky plays, and let Price bail us out. That's his game plan. I have no problem with a coach doing that if the team doesn't have much talent and that's the best way to win. But when you have good players you change your approach. That's the flexible thinking part that Cooper gets and Therrien doesn't.
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Post by franko on Mar 11, 2015 8:41:02 GMT -5
won't matter who we play in the playoffs ... there's no easy games for this team ... you're right, though by the same token there'll be no easy games for any team in the east -- it'll be a battle to get to the finals. that's a good thing for the NHL (I'm sure they'll be cheering for the Rags or the Pens to come through).
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Post by Douper on Mar 11, 2015 9:04:41 GMT -5
I've not been on MT's back this year. I've given him the benefit of the doubt because at the start of the season everything he did worked (with help from Carey). But now vs better coaches we get dominated.
We are too fast and too talented to play on our heels like that all the time. In the first DSP-DLR-eller were hitting everything and running around in the TB zone. That's how we need to play! When you got a goalie like Price, and mobile defense like we have, why not play a little Firewaggon hockey!
What's with Galchenyuk and eller stick checking everyone? Why aren't they taking the body?
If Weise wants to stay on the top line he has to be more physical, he's supposed to be the Grinder on that line. He's trying to be too cute!
Too many times last night the boys were crossing the blue line and just flipping the puck to the bolts Dmen... Our gameplan last night seemed like it was dump it out and all 5 guys in front of Carey.
The 4th line can be serviceable. But the lack of ability to cycle the puck for 30-40 seconds isn't helping us hem the other team in their zone.
Love Petry! Like Gilbert....But Gilbert seems to be like Tinordi sometimes, slow descision making.
Gonchar's minutes were perfect.
Markov's minutes were perfect.
Subban and Beaulieu should play more!
MT is going to have to be creative in the next 3 weeks to try and find some scoring...With Carey in nets....ATTACK!!!!!!!!!
Galchenyuk, Eller, the 4th line need to step up and be more aggresive.
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Post by CentreHice on Mar 11, 2015 9:35:19 GMT -5
I too, am willing to give them the "first game back" excuse. I thought we were with them for the first half of the game, and as Gogie said, playing them pretty physical, but then the legs seemed to run out of gas in the third. Plus it's Tampa, and they're a very, very good team. The East is going to be REALLY tough this year. Ain't one team in the top eight I will be overly enthusiastic about facing. Not even Boston, who I think we will be vastly underrating. Well, it's a good thing Price didn't have the "first game back" blahs. It would've been 7-0. Easier for goaltenders? Not with that many quality chances against. His concentration, energy, and quickness were at 100% the whole game. Hence the single and valuable point. He was visibly ticked…and I don't blame him. Sure hope resentment doesn't build under MT's system. Bergevin had better be keeping an eye on that. Can a coach misuse an offensively-skilled team by over-stressing defense? I always go back to Therrien getting fired from an offensive powerhouse in Pittsburgh, and then watching Bylsma sprint to a Cup…seeing an increase in GF and a decrease in GA in the process. For a coach whose mantra coming in was NO EXCUSES, he's certainly been making a few as of late. Ah…but we're in first place….right, MT? That's what he said last night. Michel BIG PICTURE Therrien.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Mar 11, 2015 10:34:28 GMT -5
As the game wore on, it was clear that the Habs were playing for 1 point while Tampa was playing for 2. Usually at home it's the other way around.
Hopefully the stalled offense will be a wakeup call for Therrien and Bergevin too. That's one area where I don't get what the relationship is between the two of them. In the "Moneyball" era of advanced stats, the trend has been a lot more direction and information is coming from the front office. GMs and coaches are joined at the hip and many GMs give outright instructions to coaches as to how to play the game and what to do in certain situations. The mystery to me is that Bergevin seems to be building a team that can play a fast game of puck possession - look at how he's built the blueline - but MT just coaches the team the way he wants. Unless you are Scotty Bowman, those days are over. Therrien hasn't earned the right to coach the team how he sees fit and Berg is well within his rights to tell Therrien EXACTLY what he wants. But I don't know if that's happening. I like Berg as a GM but I fear he is too nice a guy to have "the talk" with Therrien.
I guess a 1st round flameout will shake things up...or maybe not.
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Post by franko on Mar 11, 2015 10:39:04 GMT -5
Berg is well within his rights to tell Therrien EXACTLY what he wants. But I don't know if that's happening. I like Berg as a GM but I fear he is too nice a guy to have "the talk" with Therrien. A 1st round flameout will wake shake things up... well, we aren't at year 5 of the 5 year plan, and MT has a contract extension, so who knows? didn't see the "happy dance" last night, that's for sure.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 11, 2015 12:35:27 GMT -5
As the game wore on, it was clear that the Habs were playing for 1 point while Tampa was playing for 2. I was on the TSN site earlier and there's a discussion on whether the Habs play too conservatively ... I can't get streaming of any kind here at the office, so I haven't heard that discussion as yet ... however, when I saw your comment, it sort of validated what I had read on TSN ... they weren't playing to win, but rather not to lose ... Cheers.
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Post by franko on Mar 11, 2015 12:42:40 GMT -5
As the game wore on, it was clear that the Habs were playing for 1 point while Tampa was playing for 2. I was on the TSN site earlier and there's a discussion on whether the Habs play too conservatively ... I can't get streaming of any kind here at the office, so I haven't heard that discussion as yet ... however, when I saw your comment, it sort of validated what I had read on TSN ... they weren't playing to win, but rather not to lose ... Cheers. MT channeling his inner JM
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Post by seventeen on Mar 11, 2015 13:13:09 GMT -5
won't matter who we play in the playoffs ... there's no easy games for this team ... you're right, though by the same token there'll be no easy games for any team in the east -- it'll be a battle to get to the finals. that's a good thing for the NHL (I'm sure they'll be cheering for the Rags or the Pens to come through). There'll be more tangible support than just cheering. And I say that with a straight face. Book it.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 11, 2015 13:46:54 GMT -5
Hopefully the stalled offense will be a wakeup call for Therrien and Bergevin too. That's one area where I don't get what the relationship is between the two of them. I guess a 1st round flameout will shake things up...or maybe not. Interesting point to bring up, because I've got a huge question mark around that myself. I thought for sure that Bergevin trusts Therrien totally, why else give him a 3 year extension plus option year? (yes, not a 4 year extension, so the total cost wouldn't be $8MM unless they exercise the option in the 4th year). But two things have gotten me wondering. Well, actually one thing I guess and he would be called Jiri Sekac. Therrien wouldn't play him as much as some of us thought he should have, or in spots we thought he should have. Berg then removes two obstacles in Moen and Bourque so that Therrien doesn't have that much leeway any more and is forced to play him. He still doesn't get primo ice time or PP time. Then Therrien doesn't play him much at all and Sekac ends up being traded for someone who is more of a grinder (not that Sekac wasn't good at that part of the game either, but he's not as heavy a checker). Who's pulling the strings? This sounds more like two guys who don't have the same vision than two guys on the same page. Another side factor I don't understand (one of many actually, but this is one of the more obvious ones) is why Therrien 'trusted' Bourque so much. It's proven unequivocally now, that Bourque is a waste of space. Either Therrien couldn't see that (a huge problem if that's the case) or he was willing to put up with being shorthanded (the equivalent of playing Bourque) rather than using Sekac in his spot. Some of these observances are the tip of the iceberg to me, which is why I'm so concerned. I think Therrien does some things well but he's really weak at judging talent and judging where to play it. My immediate concern right now is Galchy's development. I noticed it stalling some time ago and it isn't turning in the right direction. He should be at at 70 point clip now, IMO, and is too far from that for my liking. He's gotten much better defensively, though . I'd sure like to have a better idea of the dynamic between Therrien and Bergevin. It may be just fine, or there may be friction under the surface.
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Post by Skilly on Mar 11, 2015 14:14:51 GMT -5
So , its quite obvious now that inserting more mobile defensemen, and inserting more grinders does not open up room and create more offense ...
We always hav needed, and continue to need, a top 6 player which allows the team to get the mutts off the top lines ... Weisse on the top line going into the playoffs? Are you kidding me?
The thing that was grating on my nerves at the trade deadline, and still is to a little degree, is that the last two times we were a first place team, management did very little offensively at the deadline and we bowed out pretty quickly in the playoffs. The times where we were struggling offensively to make the playoffs, we add Kovalev and Vanek, and the team does a little damage. But the general consensus on this board has always been when we were flirting with 7th and 8th place was "Why do anything if we arent going to win the Cup", so when we are a first place team and we don't bolster the offense we say "he tried", "no one was available" , "can't mortgage the future" , "a more mobile defense = more offense" .... I dunno ... IMO, the time to go for it in today's NHL, an NHL with very short window's of opportunity, is when you are a top team, like the Habs.
I really get the feeling we will be eliminated in the first round ... we have a recent history of fizzling quickly when we do rather well in the regular season.
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Post by stoat on Mar 11, 2015 15:23:04 GMT -5
Does anyone need further proof thatthe Habs are noncontenders? I realized that before but now I'm concerned that they won't be next year or the year after that or even later. Without Price the Habs would lack any credibility. Imagine if they had drafted Kopitar instead of Price, as some had wished for! They won't even get a high draft pick in 2015! I'll still watch them but by the time the ECFs roll around they won't be there.
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