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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 18:22:04 GMT -5
In my experience, those who were "kicked out" either caused some sort of copyright issue with a fantasy hockey league, or played the Don Cherry "we need Canadians and screw Europeans" card.
This board favours evidence when it comes to controversial statements. If some members feel that others are being too unfair regarding certain players or coaching staff, then they are within reason to call those people out.
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Post by franko on Mar 15, 2015 19:18:40 GMT -5
Defense wins championships .... Only if you can score as I said . . . a few more goals would be nice
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Mar 15, 2015 19:57:50 GMT -5
My last point on the MT bashing (hopefully) is just the constant hateful finger pointing and name calling in almost every thread and for every issue becomes tiring, childish and below what should be expected from intelligent hockey fans. I don't read the points under TSN articles either because there is very little content unless you consider "your team sucks because,,," as informative conversation. MT currently has a better coaching record than the previous 13 coaches before him with a .627 record and the last guy better was Claude Ruel in 1979-81 with a still pretty good team of future hall of famer's I'm not against having a negative opinion about MT's decision making and wonder myself why they don't play a more offensive type of style or why Gilbert gets so much ice time. Over the years there have been many debates on this board about coaching and general managers but I never recall Gainey, Carbonneau, Martin, Julien, Savard or Gauthier being talked about with a total lack of a respect.
A good debate is great but a good debate with class is exceptional.
Having said that and hope I havent offended anyone so now back to the team. Do I like the style they play, most nights I would say no but they are in every game and winning most. I'm also not taking anything away from Price but I think the defensive style keeps a lot of shots to the outside and they collapse to the front of the net very well so the shot totals look inflated some nights. Martin played a similar style in the playoff run against Washington and Pittsburg with Halak a few years back. Price certainly steals his share of games but then Burns wasn't a bad coach having Roy in net every night either. I think if turned lose the current roster could score 3-4 goals most nights but defense wins championships and if MB and MT are treating the season like an 82 game practice that will get them to the cup then I can live with that.
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Post by PTH on Mar 15, 2015 20:32:37 GMT -5
My last point on the MT bashing (hopefully) is just the constant hateful finger pointing and name calling in almost every thread and for every issue becomes tiring, childish and below what should be expected from intelligent hockey fans. I don't read the points under TSN articles either because there is very little content unless you consider "your team sucks because,,," as informative conversation. MT currently has a better coaching record than the previous 13 coaches before him with a .627 record and the last guy better was Claude Ruel in 1979-81 with a still pretty good team of future hall of famer's I'm not against having a negative opinion about MT's decision making and wonder myself why they don't play a more offensive type of style or why Gilbert gets so much ice time. Over the years there have been many debates on this board about coaching and general managers but I never recall Gainey, Carbonneau, Martin, Julien, Savard or Gauthier being talked about with a total lack of a respect. A good debate is great but a good debate with class is exceptional. Having said that and hope I havent offended anyone so now back to the team. Do I like the style they play, most nights I would say no but they are in every game and winning most. I'm also not taking anything away from Price but I think the defensive style keeps a lot of shots to the outside and they collapse to the front of the net very well so the shot totals look inflated some nights. Martin played a similar style in the playoff run against Washington and Pittsburg with Halak a few years back. Price certainly steals his share of games but then Burns wasn't a bad coach having Roy in net every night either. I think if turned lose the current roster could score 3-4 goals most nights but defense wins championships and if MB and MT are treating the season like an 82 game practice that will get them to the cup then I can live with that. I agree on all points.
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Post by 24andcounting on Mar 15, 2015 20:58:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure where I stand on the Therrien fence. I admittedly waver, but then again, while you can not argue with his results, you also can not argue with imperical data ... I'll elaborate on that later. I often ask myself, what is the Montreal Canadiens system? Does anyone know? We ice the puck seemingly more than any team in the league, we go offsides an awful lot, we do employ the dump and chase, and our coach believes the team to be a grinding team. We also sit on leads still, and play a safe style, in my opinion. But we keep on winning. So you have to give the coach some credit right? Whatever our system is, Michel Therrien told The Montreal Gazette's Christopher Curtis "We aren't changing the system. Nothing. No team this time of year is changing anything". So the system is rigid from here on out. So are we performing as a first place team because of this system? Well let me first provide one statistical number. 0.936. That's Carey Price's save percentage. It's quite frankly other-worldy, when you consider its been at over 0.950 since January. If Price was playing at say 0.925, that would be 18 more goals on him. 0.925 would still have him 4th in the league and still in the Vezina conversation. Now how about if he was playing at his career average 0.919? That would be another 28 goals against him. I think, while it might sound a tad anecdotal, it's fair to say that a Carey Price with a 0.919 save percentage and we'd be looking at 7-8 more losses, and we'd be fighting Boston for a wildcard. Now I'm not apologizing for having Carey Price on the team. He is our star. But Therrien doesn't coach Price. I've often heard it said on here that Carey Price makes up for a lot of Therrien short comings. Is it true? I don't know. But I recently read an article on seven coaches and if their records over their career was due to goaltending. The coach whose record, according to their analysis, was most reliant on goaltending was Michel Therrien. The coach whose record was least reliant was Mike Badcock. We are winning, and I don't think one of us will complain if Michel Therrien's "system" brings a Cup to Montreal. But let's not kid ourself that it is an offensive system, or a defensive system, that's putting up those Ws. It's Carey Price. Another thing we have to consider, is Marc Bergevin's acquisitions. When you look at his moves, do they fit into a Therrien system? He got rid of Moen and Bourque in an attempt to get Sekac more playing time. He acquired Gonchar, Petry, and brought up Beaulieau (not Tinordi). Three puck moving, offensive defensemen. It seems to me, from the outside looking in, that Bergevin wants a fast offensive system, not a grinding team that relies on the goalie. Will this cause some GM-coach tension? I dunno, but we are playing a style that, in my opinion, is completely ill-suited to the composition of our team. This is probably one of the best written posts in this topic I've seen, and generally the most insightful I've seen on any Habs board in a long while (which is why I always visit this board - sheer quality and diverse opinions). I'm especially impressed by the point if Price's save percentage wasn't as godly, say merely superhuman - it would have huge ramifications for our win total, and there's a good chance that we'd be on the outside looking in on the playoff race. Yeah, low percentage shots to the outside, I guess. But Price has literally robbed the other team more times than I can count this season. I wasn't a fan of MT's hire, nor am I a fan of his now. We've got results, that much is true. But without Price, I feel we'd be considering new coaching candidates because I don't think MT would have lasted the season. I'm not bashing MT, and I try to stay from that. But I definitely question more of his choices than any other coach we've had in recent memory. I know this has no real basis but I've always felt that other coaches seem to adjust their teams on the fly and MT struggles with that. I have nothing to back that up. Just a feeling, and I know it's meaningless. That said, he's the coach of the Canadiens, has won a lot of games and makes a magnitude of order money more than I do. So what do I know?!
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Post by PTH on Mar 15, 2015 21:18:40 GMT -5
...I know this has no real basis but I've always felt that other coaches seem to adjust their teams on the fly and MT struggles with that. I have nothing to back that up. Just a feeling, and I know it's meaningless. Well, based on what RDS and other commentary I've heard, MT is among the quickest to adapt, both to other teams and to his own players' games. When a guy seems hot, he quickly gets more ice time, whereas a guy who seems to be going through the motions will get demoted within a few shifts. Though, when MT does it, it's taken as "mind games" instead of trying to make in-game adjustments.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 16, 2015 0:24:01 GMT -5
Its time to move on. (to a different subject)
17
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Post by jkr on Mar 16, 2015 7:49:32 GMT -5
I read the article that compared save % to a coaches success and as usual with hockey analytics, I had trouble understanding it. It's no secret that a great goalie covers up a lot of shortcomings. I don't need detailed statistical analysis to tell me that. There's a reason 1/3 of the Conn Smythe winners have been goalies. It's the most important position on a team & if you realize you have a superstar there & build around it then more power to you.
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Post by Gogie on Mar 16, 2015 8:51:10 GMT -5
Its time to move on. (to a different subject) 17 +1
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Post by Skilly on Mar 16, 2015 15:27:16 GMT -5
My last point on the MT bashing (hopefully) is just the constant hateful finger pointing and name calling in almost every thread and for every issue becomes tiring, childish and below what should be expected from intelligent hockey fans. I don't read the points under TSN articles either because there is very little content unless you consider "your team sucks because,,," as informative conversation. MT currently has a better coaching record than the previous 13 coaches before him with a .627 record and the last guy better was Claude Ruel in 1979-81 with a still pretty good team of future hall of famer's I'm not against having a negative opinion about MT's decision making and wonder myself why they don't play a more offensive type of style or why Gilbert gets so much ice time. Over the years there have been many debates on this board about coaching and general managers but I never recall Gainey, Carbonneau, Martin, Julien, Savard or Gauthier being talked about with a total lack of a respect. A good debate is great but a good debate with class is exceptional. Having said that and hope I havent offended anyone so now back to the team. Do I like the style they play, most nights I would say no but they are in every game and winning most. I'm also not taking anything away from Price but I think the defensive style keeps a lot of shots to the outside and they collapse to the front of the net very well so the shot totals look inflated some nights. Martin played a similar style in the playoff run against Washington and Pittsburg with Halak a few years back. Price certainly steals his share of games but then Burns wasn't a bad coach having Roy in net every night either. I think if turned lose the current roster could score 3-4 goals most nights but defense wins championships and if MB and MT are treating the season like an 82 game practice that will get them to the cup then I can live with that. There was a post (or was it a link) awhile ago that showed that a high percentage of Price's shots are from scoring areas and not from the outside ... I believe it was in comparison to Pekke RINNE whose shots are contained more to the outside.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 17, 2015 0:57:41 GMT -5
I'd like to at least clear up one point and I'll ask you Paul, since you have been objective over the time I've read you. What exactly did Therrien say to Galchenyuk and how was it phrased? Well, the article doesn't have many direct quotes. We can only surmise what was said, based off of an article written by a reporter after a conversation *he* had with Galchenyuk. I could try and upgrade the google translate, but it's not bad at all. --- It's pretty clear that Galchy didn't explicitly ask to be go back on the wing, but that he was comfortable with it, he had his say (so it's not like MT just told him "you're back on the wing, deal with it"), and felt he could be more productive on the wing. Based on the quotes later in the article, I think he knows he's going through a tougher stretch and is better on the wing, while when he's doing well he could be a top-6 center. I suspect he was told that given his lack of production, he'd either be a top-6 winger or a 3d line center (as he'd been for part of the previous game, with Prust and Parenteau) and he chose the wing. Thanks Paul.
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