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Post by Polarice on Apr 27, 2015 17:50:11 GMT -5
As per Twitter the are Norris Finalists: Doughty,Karlsson,Subban.
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Post by blny on Apr 27, 2015 17:59:27 GMT -5
Doughty lol. What a crock. There's a laundry list of guys who had better years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 18:02:35 GMT -5
Doughty lol. What a crock. There's a laundry list of guys who had better years. Ironic, I was thinking the same thing about Subban.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 27, 2015 18:09:25 GMT -5
Doughty?
I don't understand this LA love ... Kopitar gets a SELKE nod, for what, I'm not sure. And now Doughty? I thought Doughty had an off year.
Almost feels like they have a weak finalist to make the voting skew one way
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 27, 2015 18:11:17 GMT -5
I know it's supposed to be a regular season vote but Karlsson had a strong playoff ... I didn't know he had a physical side to him but at the same time there was nothing overly special about it ... I find the media seem to celebrate in Subban's failures ... kept fanning that fire almost all year, yet some journalists feel that Subban is having a stronger year than when he won the Norris ... I don't know what Doughty did this year ... I heard his name a lot early in the season, but I haven't heard of him all the much recently ... glad the Kings are out ...
Cheers.
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Post by jkr on Apr 27, 2015 18:14:55 GMT -5
Sportsnet panel was saying that the Norris has never been won by someone on a non-playoff team.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 27, 2015 18:25:11 GMT -5
... one question: Has PK done as much for the Habs, as Karlsson has for the Senators ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Apr 27, 2015 18:34:10 GMT -5
Doughty lol. What a crock. There's a laundry list of guys who had better years. Ironic, I was thinking the same thing about Subban. Look at the stats. Subban is near the top in all of them.
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Post by franko on Apr 27, 2015 18:46:07 GMT -5
Doughty lol. What a crock. There's a laundry list of guys who had better years. Ironic, I was thinking the same thing about Subban. Karlsson by default then. In the look at me lately frame, Karlsson wind t. He had a good second half - after Method cane back to watch out for his defensive play. If I were to look for an MVP on the Sens it would actually be Methot - his play made a big difference. Another one of those guys nit noticed but without him the GA goes up.
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Post by blny on Apr 27, 2015 18:48:48 GMT -5
In the regular season I don't think Karlsson brought more to the table. He stepped up his game in his own end and physically in the first round ... in some of the games. Karlsson is the sexy, flashy, pick. He'll likely get it, but I'm not sold he should. IMO, he's still a gambler. Still gets caught up ice. He was up ice on Weise's OT goal, well out of position.
The Doughty pick is a flat out joke. It's a huge slap in the face of Weber and Josi, one of whom should have been nominated. It's a slap in the face of a raft of guys who had significantly better seasons.
Subban gets points, moves the puck well, knows where his own end is, and had a +/- that can't be touched by anyone in the top ten in scoring for D. He also had the most GWG of those in top ten in scoring. Haters gonna hate though, and they'll marginalize him every way they can.
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Post by franko on Apr 27, 2015 18:59:26 GMT -5
Karlsson is flashy, and glitz sells. I don't think he should get it, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't. He was awful the first half of the season and came on in the second. PK was, I think, fairly consistent.
I don't think Karlsson should get it mostly because I think a defenceman should, and Karlsson isn't a d-man - not even an offensive defenseman. He's a rover.
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Post by HFTO on Apr 27, 2015 21:20:09 GMT -5
Usually goes to the top scoring D man which shouldn't be the sole criteria.
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Post by franko on Apr 27, 2015 22:00:46 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Apr 27, 2015 22:19:36 GMT -5
I would have picked Oliver Ekman-Larson, but then I like to be different. Seriously, having watched more than a few Yotes games, OEK is the real deal. And no one can say he had a great goalie playing behind him, or tremendous players to help out. He was an island unto himself. I would have gone with Giordano if he hadn't been hurt and had continued his level of play. Of the three guys up for the award, I think Doughty will get it because he hasn't. I know I'm destroying my own argument, but PK is the only guy left who's team is still in the playoffs and there's something to that (Boom goes my OEK defense). Ekman-larson was on such a bad team that he had no chance in hades of winning, but I sure like him as a dman.
Anyway, that's my prediction. Doughty because Rogers loves him, despite his high risk game and the fact he couldn't get his team (defending champs) into the playoffs.
I'm really hoping Detroit beats out Tampa on Wednesday because I'd love to have PK give Babcock a taste of why he was wrong to not play PK in the Olympics. Yeah, I get the righty - lefty thing, but PK has upped his game and Pietrangelo hasn't. Oh well, next time.
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Post by franko on Apr 27, 2015 22:29:39 GMT -5
I PK is the only guy left who's team is still in the playoffs and there's something to that though there isn't supposed to be. and the fact that he's the least polarizing of the three.
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Post by habsorbed on Apr 27, 2015 23:30:58 GMT -5
How well a dman plays in the playoffs is not only irrelevant it's a non factor as the voting has already occurred and was completed before the playoffs commenced. The three finalist were the top 3 vote getters. The choice has already been made.
Nor does the award go to the most valuable dman to their team. It is not the Hart. It is best dman!
i didn't see Doughty play that much this year but his stats are not particularly strong.
As has been said, Fancy Boy is not a dman. A dman should be able to play defence and that means playing against the other teams top line each night (PK), a regular on the penalty kill (PK), and on the ice at the end of the game to protect the lead (PK). Fancy Boy is a great skater and has great offensive skill but he plays offensive minutes and is a liability in his own end. Unlike PK, he is not intimidating in the least in his own zone. While i would concede that a top offensive dman with little defensive ability may get the nod for the Norris if he is so dominating offensively that his play and offensive numbers can't be ignored (Coffey), Fancy Boy's offensive numbers are comparable to PK's.
So the best dman goes to PK.
Regardless of the outcome - PK is worth the $9 million and the haters will just have to go on hating.
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Post by Skilly on Apr 28, 2015 7:59:34 GMT -5
I believe these are the top three vote getters, so the voting is already done. And from the blurbs on nhl.com it looks like this is Doughty's year.
They go to great lengths to explain that Doughty had the most ice time, the highest mins/G, and he was strong in all the new possession stats. So there appears to be a changing of the guard as to what the Norris criteria entails. They even go on to say that Karlsson was 2nd in ice-time and PK was 5th (I think, too lazy to go back and re-read) ... why is ice-time suddenly important and not how you perform with that ice-time???
Soooo, in light of the new ice-time slant ... I think later on I will do up a little chart to show you that based on ice-time, PK Subban would be the hands down winner of the Norris this year.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 28, 2015 8:12:44 GMT -5
If I were to look for an MVP on the Sens it would actually be Methot - his play made a big difference. Another one of those guys nit noticed but without him the GA goes up. Very good point, here ... probably Ottawa's best defenceman ... one of the best d-men in the conference, in my opinion ... kind of validates your "Rover" reference, eh ... Cheers.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Apr 28, 2015 9:59:11 GMT -5
Roman Josi would have been a far more logical choice than Doughty...
Out of the 3 selected Subban is the only one who dominated at both ends. But there seems to be an unstoppable love fest going on for Karlsson, so I think he gets it.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 28, 2015 10:27:37 GMT -5
How well a dman plays in the playoffs is not only irrelevant it's a non factor as the voting has already occurred and was completed before the playoffs commenced. The three finalist were the top 3 vote getters. The choice has already been made. Having the voting completed prior to the playoffs makes sense ... good point ... That's right, but all I was doing was asking a question ... Cheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 28, 2015 10:30:41 GMT -5
Roman Josi would have been a far more logical choice than Doughty... Out of the 3 selected Subban is the only one who dominated at both ends. But there seems to be an unstoppable love fest going on for Karlsson, so I think he gets it. Don't forget that the media also likes celebrating PK's gaffes ... and you're right about the Karlsson love fest ... I like Franko's point that Karlsson can attribute a lot of his success to his defence partner, Marc Methot ... and some will argue that PK had Price behind him ... depends on how you look at it ... would be a nice return to that contract if PK were to win it ... Cheers.
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Post by franko on Apr 28, 2015 10:37:01 GMT -5
some will argue that PK had Price behind him ... funny thing that . . . over and over again we hear that it's all Price . . . and maybe it is . . . Anderson had Karlsson in front of him . . . but where are the Senators now? the Habs are on to the second round, and the Sens are on to the second tee.
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 28, 2015 10:47:45 GMT -5
some will argue that PK had Price behind him ... funny thing that . . . over and over again we hear that it's all Price . . . and maybe it is . . . Anderson had Karlsson in front of him . . . but where are the Senators now? the Habs are on to the second round, and the Sens are on to the second tee. Franko, you seem heartbroken the Sens are on the second tee only 2 holes behind the Leafs.
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Post by habernac on Apr 28, 2015 11:20:11 GMT -5
Giordano should still be there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 12:36:38 GMT -5
I think a Norris trophy should be for best defence an, not flashiest or best stats. Unfortunately there aren't quality defensive stats like there are goals, assists and plus/minus. Sub an definitely benefitted from Price and their forwards back checking. I would trade Subban for at least a dozen other defence men in this league.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 28, 2015 12:44:47 GMT -5
Giordano should still be there. And the Flames are getting it done without him ... imagine if he were in the lineup ... Cheers.
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Post by Polarice on Apr 28, 2015 13:05:16 GMT -5
Out of the 3 chosen, PK is the best all around dman!! Stats wise its not even that close. Will he win it? Probably not.
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Post by blny on Apr 28, 2015 13:13:34 GMT -5
Out of the 3 chosen, PK is the best all around dman!! Stats wise its not even that close. Will he win it? Probably not. Agreed, and agreed. If the members of the press that get a vote a silly enough to rank Doughty that high, they're silly enough to overlook the obvious.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 28, 2015 13:51:34 GMT -5
I wonder if these awards haven't turned into popularity contests. The best example is the Selke award which supposedly goes to the best defensive forward in the NHL. It's now become an award for the forward with the most points, who happens to be a little better than average defensively. Bob Gainey wouldn't stand a chance today. Time for the voters to shake their heads and vote it properly. Having said that...why don't we have our own awards show, and pick the guys who actually deserve the awards. They may be the same people as the journalists choose, but maybe they won't. I'd have to look at all the defensive players to come up with more names, but I can think of Dominic Moore right now as perhaps being a good nominee for the Selke. Carey would still get my vote for Vezina and Hart.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 28, 2015 15:31:47 GMT -5
I wonder if these awards haven't turned into popularity contests. The best example is the Selke award which supposedly goes to the best defensive forward in the NHL. It's now become an award for the forward with the most points, who happens to be a little better than average defensively. Bob Gainey wouldn't stand a chance today. Time for the voters to shake their heads and vote it properly. Having said that...why don't we have our own awards show, and pick the guys who actually deserve the awards. They may be the same people as the journalists choose, but maybe they won't. I'd have to look at all the defensive players to come up with more names, but I can think of Dominic Moore right now as perhaps being a good nominee for the Selke. Carey would still get my vote for Vezina and Hart. Dominic Moore would be a great choice ... Tomas Plekanec maybe ... Cheers.
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