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Post by franko on May 3, 2015 23:26:14 GMT -5
the only good thing about watching the game tonight was that I didn't see it live so could fast forward . . . and then the PVR froze and didn't record the who 3rd period.
disappointing. I actually thought the Habs would take this series in 6 -- 4 in a row will be difficult (but not impossible).
gearing myself for Sens fans tomorrow. guess I'll be asking them who they're playing as my rebuttal.
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Post by CentreHice on May 3, 2015 23:39:32 GMT -5
IMO, franko, if Hammond had played us anywhere near how he played in the final months of the regular season, the Sens would likely be playing Tampa.
Once Anderson came in, we dried right up. Lots of chances, no natural finish...
We had 6:00 of PP time...and got 1 shot.
We had more shots on our penalty kills.
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Post by franko on May 4, 2015 0:11:20 GMT -5
IMO, franko, if Hammond had played us anywhere near how he played in the final months of the regular season, the Sens would likely be playing Tampa. The other side of that, CH, is that if Hammond had played the season like he played us - his true ability, I think - the Sens would have been outside looking in. But point well taken. As was this one. I'm back to hating MT's style and giving him little or no credit.
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Post by habsorbed on May 4, 2015 0:16:44 GMT -5
We were dominating the game in the first. Should have, could have been at least 2-0. But you can't give a team 6 minutes of PP to finish a period and expect to be ahead (unless of course it is the Habs PP, then all bets are off).
Prust should be ashamed of himself. He was an embarrassment to himself and the organization. I though he was different than Chris Neil or Downie, but i guess not. He's probably juiced on something. His double minor was inexcusable. His running of Bishop was bush. Fighting Colburn who is wearing a helmet with a visor is plain dumb. Throwing his elbow pad is Slap Shot material and something i expect form a Bruin. But not a Hab. See ya later Brandon!
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Post by habsorbed on May 4, 2015 0:19:38 GMT -5
Lost in all the drama is Morrow's elbow to the head while his feet leave the ice. How is that not suspendable?
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Post by habsorbed on May 4, 2015 0:31:12 GMT -5
The only silver lining in losing 4 straight will be losing MT if MB has any hockey sense at all.
How have we gone 6 months without a viable PP. And only tonight MT starts trying some different things when there's no time for error. Pathetic.
Of more concern is this strategy to run Bishop. Given every Hab is doing it, it is hard to believe that it is not a coaching strategy. Don't get the logic. Is Bishop that good? Are you not telling your players that we don't think you guys can beat this guy unless you run him. Why would you go into a series with that strategy? I can understand when he's stoned you for 2 or 3 games in the series but why from the outset. Somewhat ironic that we supposedly have the best goalie in the NHL and we would be mighty pissed if another team (Rags and Kreider) were doing that to us, yet we are doing it to a so so goalie and it has backfired big time. Seems like fitting karma. the more I watch Mt's team, the more i see the Bruins and I don't like it. I don't mind toughness but i don't like cheap shot artist, whiners, people who don't take responsibility for their mistakes. Max called it: we pissed the game away!
Can anyone tell me why Carey was in the net in the last 10 minute soy the game? Don't risk an injury and get Toker some game time. Not blaming Carey but he almost got injured in a game that was a lost cause.
As best I can tell we can play with the Bolts and have the personnel. But we certainly do not have the coaching.
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Post by Disp on May 4, 2015 6:34:18 GMT -5
It's not a coaching strategy to give up 4 pp goals, it's the players effing it up.
It would be nice if everything was straight up, if we lived in a world where goalies don't get run, and guys don't try and bend the rules. That's not the nhl world. I've seen this team play like pussy's for a long time. Giving a little back is fine. Nice guys finish last.
It's all perspective anyways, during the Bruins run they acted like asshats and portrayed themselves as playing hockey the right way. Like a beacon of hockey. There were people in hockey that believed it.
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Post by Skilly on May 4, 2015 6:42:31 GMT -5
The only silver lining in losing 4 straight will be losing MT if MB has any hockey sense at all. How have we gone 6 months without a viable PP. And only tonight MT starts trying some different things when there's no time for error. Pathetic. Of more concern is this strategy to run Bishop. Given every Hab is doing it, it is hard to believe that it is not a coaching strategy. Don't get the logic. Is Bishop that good? Are you not telling your players that we don't think you guys can beat this guy unless you run him. Why would you go into a series with that strategy? I can understand when he's stoned you for 2 or 3 games in the series but why from the outset. Somewhat ironic that we supposedly have the best goalie in the NHL and we would be mighty pissed if another team (Rags and Kreider) were doing that to us, yet we are doing it to a so so goalie and it has backfired big time. Seems like fitting karma. the more I watch Mt's team, the more i see the Bruins and I don't like it. I don't mind toughness but i don't like cheap shot artist, whiners, people who don't take responsibility for their mistakes. Max called it: we pissed the game away! Can anyone tell me why Carey was in the net in the last 10 minute soy the game? Don't risk an injury and get Toker some game time. Not blaming Carey but he almost got injured in a game that was a lost cause. As best I can tell we can play with the Bolts and have the personnel. But we certainly do not have the coaching. In MT's defense, he has tried different players on the PP, alot of different players. Where MT falls short, or whoever is to blame (cause this is a caoching blame) is that no matter who they use on the PP, they are all doing the exact same thing! Win the face-off, back to the point, pass to left defense, pass to right defense, switch over, touch pass to Subban, slap shot. Time and time again. The ONLY time our PP shows any signs of life, is when Petry is the QB (handling the puck, dictating the angles and where the puck is distributed) or someone fires a quick wrist shot from the point. The huge blast from the point has worked ONCE this playoffs, and that wasnt even on a PP. 3% .... 3%!!!! I also think we have the personel to compete. Where I disagree though is that I'm not ready to blame the coaches. Yes, I think the PP is a coaching problem. But our PP has been terrible all year, and we've managed to be one of the best teams in the NHL. Where we have fallen short in these playoffs has been discipline and hockey IQ. We did the same thing against Ottawa. Got a lead, and then for some strange reason we started to take liberties and put the team down. When you get a lead, being a disciplined machine is paramount. The easiest way to let a team back into a game is by giving them a bunch of PPs. How this team can not comprehend that is beyond belief.
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Post by BadCompany on May 4, 2015 6:44:59 GMT -5
Yeesh. Torrey Mitchell and Bryan Flynn are 1-2 in points for forwards (albeit Flynn is tied with a bunch of other players). That pretty much says it all, I think. Heck, Flynn hasn't had a point since the first game of the series and he still has as many points as Plekanec. For that matter, here are the goals by forwards: Pacioretty: 3 Plekanec: 1 Gallagher: 1 Galchenyuk: 1 Eller: 1 Desharnais: 0 Parenteau: 0 That's just bad. It goes without saying of course that we need at least a split in Tampa. And even that will still make it difficult.
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Post by Skilly on May 4, 2015 6:45:07 GMT -5
It's not a coaching strategy to give up 4 pp goals, it's the players effing it up. It would be nice if everything was straight up, if we lived in a world where goalies don't get run, and guys don't try and bend the rules. That's not the nhl world. I've seen this team play like pussy's for a long time. Giving a little back is fine. Nice guys finish last. It's all perspective anyways, during the Bruins run they acted like asshats and portrayed themselves as playing hockey the right way. Like a beacon of hockey. There were people in hockey that believed it. Powerplays are systems. Systems are coaching. Unless this coaching staff is happy with a 3% powerplay, then there is some coaching blame here. As CH said, we had more chances, and more shots on net when we were on the PK.
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Post by Disp on May 4, 2015 6:47:11 GMT -5
Draw it up all you want. The players have to execute.
They don't.
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Post by CentreHice on May 4, 2015 6:48:04 GMT -5
Unless the boys have a comeback for the ages in them, we're witnessing the inevitable result of our goal scoring woes. And it's been an area of concern all year long.
Unless Price can limit the opposition to 1 or 2 goals, we don't have a shot because of our lack of scoring depth….especially on the PP.
Of our 110 regular season points, I think it's fair to say that Price stole at least 20 of them…no doubt many more….which puts us out of the playoffs.
As the playoff pressure and intensity wears on…the inability to get goal support for our all-world goalie is catastrophic.
Price simply cannot afford to make a mistake.
I don't know Xs and Os/systems that well, but MT and his staff have had all year to figure out this dismal PP, for example, and it's actually gotten worse.
1-26 now.
While we have only one true sniper up front, we should be able to generate more than "1.something" goals per game.
Therrien always goes back to: We're not executing; The players didn't follow the game plan;
When these problems were presenting themselves in the regular season, it was: It's a process. You have to remember the big picture.
I've seen the big picture for quite a while now and it's unsustainable: Price or bust.
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Post by BadCompany on May 4, 2015 7:05:44 GMT -5
What's funny (sad?) is that people have been railing all year about the poor advanced stats, and yet in the playoffs we've actually been winning that battle more often then not. Quite dominant at times, in fact. We've wanted Therrien to implement a system where we outshoot other teams and maintain possession more than they do, and that's exactly what has happened in this series, and for large parts of the first round as well. And yet...
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Post by CentreHice on May 4, 2015 7:10:30 GMT -5
Yep.....now to find the finish.
Just heard a clip of Therrien....and he's not blaming the refs....he's saying Prust's behaviour was undisciplined and unacceptable. And he night be 100% correct.
But if one of your player's goes off like that on the ref...and it's the truth....don't you support your player?
I also heard that Prust did what he did because he was upset about a shot to the pills that went uncalled. (I don't recall that.)
Wonder how this whole thing is going over in the room.
Are the players with Therrien? If so, Prust will feel alienated.
Are they with Prust in his tirade against Watson? If so, does that affect how they're called in Game 3? The officials are a brethren, too.
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Post by franko on May 4, 2015 7:33:11 GMT -5
Draw it up all you want. The players have to execute. They don't. except if the players are following what is drawn up and it isn't working you can't blame the players if its a bad system.
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Post by franko on May 4, 2015 7:36:37 GMT -5
I also heard that Prust did what he did because he was upset about a shot to the pills that went uncalled. (I don't recall that.) that's why he went ape-you-know-what against Coburn even the more borderline borderline calls will go against the Habs while TBay plays with impunity.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 4, 2015 7:45:02 GMT -5
As best I can tell we can play with the Bolts and have the personnel. But we certainly do not have the coaching. We can skate with them, but the problem of not being able to score remains ... is that coaching problem or a management problem? ... having said that, I feel Therrien deflects questions on problem areas ... is he trying to protect his GM or is it the system(s) he's using ... maybe he's just being evasive ... dunno ... Yeesh. Torrey Mitchell and Bryan Flynn are 1-2 in points for forwards (albeit Flynn is tied with a bunch of other players). That pretty much says it all, I think. Heck, Flynn hasn't had a point since the first game of the series and he still has as many points as Plekanec. I'd like to know just where our team has gone ... we can say want we want about Gionta and Gorges, but there's no way they'd allow a meltdown like this to happen ... Cheers.
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Post by Disp on May 4, 2015 7:55:57 GMT -5
Draw it up all you want. The players have to execute. They don't. except if the players are following what is drawn up and it isn't working you can't blame the players if its a bad system. Think about it logically, do you really think that's the case? We have too many guys who can only take what is given, not enough who take it no matter what.
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 4, 2015 8:04:19 GMT -5
The less said about this game the better. Just a nightmare all the way around and not representative of the ability of this team. Just throw it out and move on.
The power play and lack of production have been issues for 2 years and they become magnified in the playoffs against the best teams. We've been especially bad this post-season since Game 1 of the Ottawa series but the underlying issues have been there for a while.
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Post by CentreHice on May 4, 2015 8:11:24 GMT -5
The Bolts gave us a taste of our own medicine in Game 1. i.e. being outplayed yet hanging around long enough via solid goaltending to win.
They're a better overall team. They certainly have the green light to play an offensive game. Now that their defence and goaltending are dependable-to-solid…..that's the best mix to have.
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Post by jkr on May 4, 2015 8:37:17 GMT -5
What's funny (sad?) is that people have been railing all year about the poor advanced stats, and yet in the playoffs we've actually been winning that battle more often then not. Quite dominant at times, in fact. We've wanted Therrien to implement a system where we outshoot other teams and maintain possession more than they do, and that's exactly what has happened in this series, and for large parts of the first round as well. And yet... I guess Andrew Berkshire and the Eyes On The Prize people are happy.
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Post by franko on May 4, 2015 8:49:56 GMT -5
except if the players are following what is drawn up and it isn't working you can't blame the players if its a bad system. Think about it logically, do you really think that's the case? it ain't all the coaching; it ain't all the players. for the players (or is it for MT?), it's been follow the system or you're benched . . . and who wants to be benched? while it helped (say) PK to be more responsible, it also took away his initiative to be a little more daring (though he still dipsy-doodles and loses the puck to often) for MT, it's been follow the system or you're benched. how's that system working? and how's that PP doing? I remember one coach (maybe Demers?) who threw 5 guys and a puck on the ice during a practice and said "show me a power play" . . . and it worked. maybe MT would do that? naw . . . initiative? improvisation? they're a grinding team. time to go Pittsburgh on MT and find someone new. too late this year but please, MB, please. oh, and while you're at it, find someone who can put the puck in the net.
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Post by Polarice on May 4, 2015 8:51:12 GMT -5
For the most part we have out played Tampa, but we have no finish. As for Prust, I don't blame him for finally cracking. The reffing has been terrible since the first game of the first series. I have no answer for the reffing, as long as there are two refs they will call the game differently. One will let them play, the other will call everything. We need to go back to the one ref system.
As for our scoring woes.....need a couple more players and probably a new system.
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Post by Disp on May 4, 2015 9:13:35 GMT -5
I'll never believe that the coaches tell the players to stand around, move the puck slowly and be predictable on the pp.
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 4, 2015 9:21:29 GMT -5
What's funny (sad?) is that people have been railing all year about the poor advanced stats, and yet in the playoffs we've actually been winning that battle more often then not. Quite dominant at times, in fact. We've wanted Therrien to implement a system where we outshoot other teams and maintain possession more than they do, and that's exactly what has happened in this series, and for large parts of the first round as well. And yet... I guess Andrew Berkshire and the Eyes On The Prize people are happy. The shots and shot attempts have favored the Habs. We've outshot the other team in 6 of our 8 games, which is good. The issue is shooting percentage, which is a function of quality of chances, quality of goaltending, skill of the shooter, and puck luck. Our shooting percentage was 7.93% during the regular season, compared to a league average of 7.79%. Our average through 8 games is 5.17% and 4.45% since Game 1 against Ottawa. The problem is there is a lot of variability around that number, and the playoffs are a small sample size of games against increasingly better competition so you would expect shooting percentage to go down. Like other sports, the advanced stats have greater meaning over a full season. But all anybody cares about is the playoffs. If we get swept, the challenge for Bergevin is to decide how significant that is. Does he chalk it up to bad timing and put his stock in the 110 point season? Or does a playoff loss change his opinion about this team and the 110 points?
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Post by Forum Ghost on May 4, 2015 10:14:23 GMT -5
What's funny (sad?) is that people have been railing all year about the poor advanced stats, and yet in the playoffs we've actually been winning that battle more often then not. Quite dominant at times, in fact. We've wanted Therrien to implement a system where we outshoot other teams and maintain possession more than they do, and that's exactly what has happened in this series, and for large parts of the first round as well. And yet... Good point BC. I was actually thinking about that last night as well. The Habs won the possession game versus Ottawa and are doing the same versus the Bolts, but I guess it's all for naught if you're running on a 4% clip with your PP. If I'm not mistaken, it's Dan Lacroix who runs the special teams. If the PP doesn't turn itself around for the remainder of this series, then it'll be time in the offseason for Berg to ditch Lacroix and get a coach who excels at powerplays. If they end up cleaning house in St. Louis, Berg should try to bring in Muller as an assistant. I recall the Habs always having a strong PP while Muller was behind the bench. Either that or bring back Carbo to run special teams. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that when Carbo was assistant to Gainey, the Habs PP was consistently among the top 3 or 5 in the league.
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Post by blny on May 4, 2015 10:41:33 GMT -5
That 4 minute call was horrendous, especially when it came shortly after Garrison punched a forward in the back of the head for a tap on Bishop. The timing of Prust calling out the ref is wrong, but I can understand him saying it. If a player can't call the ref that, neither should the ref be allowed to call the player that. I left after the 2-1 goal. Knew what was coming. The power play has completely destroyed them. I don't know if a comeback is possible now, but the Bolts aren't beating them by outplaying them. Montreal was better through that first 4 minute kill. Montreal is beating themselves. No matter what happens, Bergevin has two major things to accomplish this Summer. He needs to seriously address the power play issues. You simply can't be that bad. If MT won't fire Lacroix then the whole staff has to go. After that, he needs to add goals. Come hell or high water, he needs to find goal scorers. While I believe the power play is zapping confidence from more than just itself, they need more legit scoring. Can't win the cup averaging less than 2 goals a game. Oh, and scoring first is a jinx. Not sure if it's the same play you are talking about, but Carle got sent to the box for the same thing Prust did .. He punched Gallagher, after he thought Gallagher was in Bishops grill. Not the same. I remember that play, which I believe was early in the game.
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Post by HFTO on May 4, 2015 10:55:58 GMT -5
I can hear Red Fisher now.......show me the players.....we're not there yet folks and Price aside I didn't expect tthem to be.
MB still has lots of work to do ,the depth is pretty good but it's all with our middling players ....and simply the Habs have no stars up front Max is good,but he's not a guy that can take the team on his back.
HFTO
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Post by seventeen on May 4, 2015 10:59:52 GMT -5
I haven't looked it up, but I believe everyone's PP stats are down from historical norms. From an observational standpoint, I think way more shots are being blocked than before. Players are more willing to sacrifice their bodies and they're wearing better armour, which ensures it doesn't hurt as much. Of course, that shouldn't result in a 3% PP. I paid attention to Tampa's PP and they seem to make more one touch passes, but that is only possible if the other players are moving to positions where they're easily available to receive those passes. Part of it may simply be work rate.
Thinking back to our good PP's in the past, we had two lefties on the point, Markov and someone with a good slapshot who one timed it and hit the net a lot. You'll recall Souray, Streit and even (horrors) Marc Andre Bergeron. Seemed to work because Markov was able to draw people and create space for his partner. Teams have adapted to that now, though, so it's important to balance out the point shots with down low play. That's the part we haven't figured out. Coaching problem? It should be, of course. That's what coaches are paid to do. If we had some creative players, they might figure it out themselves as well, but that hasn't happened either.
One thing we don't have that might make a difference is we don't have a big forward who can stand in front of the goalie and force a dman to pay special attention to them. That would collapse the box somewhat and open space for one of our other deep forwards. I'll have to watch that part of our PP more closely next game. Do our deep forwards really make the opposing Dmen pay attention? Is all the focus on blocking shots? Is the fear factor not there anymore and if not, how does one instill it again? Shoot high, where there's less padding?
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Post by seventeen on May 4, 2015 11:02:35 GMT -5
I can hear Red Fisher now.......show me the players.....we're not there yet folks and Price aside I didn't expect tthem to be. MB still has lots of work to do ,the depth is pretty good but it's all with our middling players ....and simply the Habs have no stars up front Max is good,but he's not a guy that can take the team on his back. HFTO I think that's the nub of it, HFTO. Our top 6 isn't good enough. Babcock found that out as well, though he found ways to get it closer. He, at least, had Datsyuk.
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