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Post by HABSINFL on May 15, 2015 10:52:41 GMT -5
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Post by Lord Bebop on May 16, 2015 10:43:22 GMT -5
We had a great season imo. 110 points gave us 2nd best record in the league. We got knocked out in a second round series which imo we outplayed the other team for the most part. This was done in a year where we let some big leadership pieces walk( gionta, Gorges).. So it was a huge transitional year and we got better.
If we can get our power play going our team will be in the in the discussion of true contenders. Maybe it's oversimplifying what needs to improve but we won or lost most our playoff games by a goal or 2 so if you added a extra goal a game or every other game with a power play that clicked.......
I think Therrien has done a great job working our young guys into the lineup slowly and not forcing them in a role they are not ready to take on.next season we should see more young guys getting their feet wet( Tinordi, Hudon,Pateryn, Andrighetto, McCarron, Dietz.....). I hope we take the patient approach that we took with Subban, Beaulieu, Gallagher and Galchenyuk
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Post by duster on May 16, 2015 12:08:21 GMT -5
In La Presse this morning, it looks like Sylvain Lefebvre is staying and Lebeau's contract won't be renewed. Bergeving is happy with Lefebvre's work and gives him credit for developing Gallagher, De la Rose and Beaulieu.
I had really hoped for a change in coaching to go along with the relocation. In the few games I've seen them play over the years under Lefebvre's tutelage, the Dogs played less than inspired hockey. I don't see that changing now.
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Post by seventeen on May 16, 2015 17:14:29 GMT -5
Bergevin appears very loyal to his coaching staff. As one writer pointed out, shouldn't your minor league coach be a guy who can step into the major league team's position smoothly? I think it's fair to say, as an indisputable fact, that Lefebvre has failed to make the Dogs a winner and would be far down any list of potential Hab head coaching candidates. Perhaps if we lent him Price he could turn that around. Berg's loyalty is commendable but misguided.
It's hard to argue that MT cannot get the most out of the team when we get 110 points, and it's equally hard to argue Lefebvre should be kept when he misses the playoffs 3 years in a row.
We'll see I guess, if Lefebvre is actually re-signed. I've learned to believe little of what Berg says and pay attention to what he does. He's very different from Gainey in that regard.
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Post by Disp on May 16, 2015 17:33:50 GMT -5
Winning seems secondary to developing players in Hamilton. A very far second. I'd like them to win more, but if he keeps giving us players we can use, I don't really care.
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Post by seventeen on May 16, 2015 22:59:16 GMT -5
That's an easy excuse for him IMO. Firstly I'm not sold that our youngsters would be just as far in development with a fire hydrant as coach and secondly it's really important to learn to win and you get little experience in that when you lose as often as Lefebvre has managed to do.
There's nothing encouraging about his work in Hamilton.
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Post by CentreHice on May 17, 2015 0:38:53 GMT -5
110 pts....quite a few of them on Price's back. Likely enough to have missed the playoffs had he put in an average year.
Stephane has been worth his Waite in goal.
We can stop 'em....but we gotta score 'em.
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Post by habsorbed on May 17, 2015 1:33:13 GMT -5
I don't know if it is "denial" or self serving comments.
What really disturbed me is his praise for MT. While it's hard to argue with 110 points, a strong case can be made that a team that has the best player in the league who plays the most important goalie position should dominate the league, particularly if the team also has a Norris candidate. And by the way, our current gm had nothing to do with getting the Hart-Vezina and Norris players.
So what has MB done to significantly improve the team? Max was not his pick. Chuck was his pick but MB won't be picking 3rd overall again as he will have lost his job by then. I guess staying the course is good but is that enough for a Cup. At some point he needs to make a move. He's kidding himself if he thinks a cup is coming without acquiring a star player through a trade.
This may be heresy, but I'm thinking if Price played for the Leafs Carlyle would still have a job and MT would by on L'Anti Chambre.
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Post by Lord Bebop on May 17, 2015 10:00:34 GMT -5
I don't know if it is "denial" or self serving comments. What really disturbed me is his praise for MT. While it's hard to argue with 110 points, a strong case can be made that a team that has the best player in the league who plays the most important goalie position should dominate the league, particularly if the team also has a Norris candidate. And by the way, our current gm had nothing to do with getting the Hart-Vezina and Norris players. So what has MB done to significantly improve the team? Max was not his pick. Chuck was his pick but MB won't be picking 3rd overall again as he will have lost his job by then. I guess staying the course is good but is that enough for a Cup. At some point he needs to make a move. He's kidding himself if he thinks a cup is coming without acquiring a star player through a trade. This may be heresy, but I'm thinking if Price played for the Leafs Carlyle would still have a job and MT would by on L'Anti Chambre. I think he addressed that .. it's not an option to acquire a star player cause its not a option due to star players are not made available...and if they are I'm guessing we need to send a star player back in return(That's what he meant with the polar station comment)......I think we are looking at Scherbak, Hudon or Andrighetto blossoming into that star player we so desperately need
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Post by Anardil1 on May 17, 2015 11:50:14 GMT -5
I don't know if it is "denial" or self serving comments. What really disturbed me is his praise for MT. While it's hard to argue with 110 points, a strong case can be made that a team that has the best player in the league who plays the most important goalie position should dominate the league, particularly if the team also has a Norris candidate. And by the way, our current gm had nothing to do with getting the Hart-Vezina and Norris players. So what has MB done to significantly improve the team? Max was not his pick. Chuck was his pick but MB won't be picking 3rd overall again as he will have lost his job by then. I guess staying the course is good but is that enough for a Cup. At some point he needs to make a move. He's kidding himself if he thinks a cup is coming without acquiring a star player through a trade. This may be heresy, but I'm thinking if Price played for the Leafs Carlyle would still have a job and MT would by on L'Anti Chambre. I think he addressed that .. it's not an option to acquire a star player cause its not a option due to star players are not made available...and if they are I'm guessing we need to send a star player back in return(That's what he meant with the polar station comment)......I think we are looking at Scherbak, Hudon or Andrighetto blossoming into that star player we so desperately need If we are hoping that Andrighetto or Hudon turn out to be star players, then I feel that we are going to be disappointed. Yes, they are interesting prospects, but IMHO, if they turn out similar to Gallagher, then we should be very pleased, since I feel that to expect something more would be fantasy. Scherbak on the other hand, I have hope for to be a special player.
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Post by habsorbed on May 17, 2015 12:08:04 GMT -5
I don't know if it is "denial" or self serving comments. What really disturbed me is his praise for MT. While it's hard to argue with 110 points, a strong case can be made that a team that has the best player in the league who plays the most important goalie position should dominate the league, particularly if the team also has a Norris candidate. And by the way, our current gm had nothing to do with getting the Hart-Vezina and Norris players. So what has MB done to significantly improve the team? Max was not his pick. Chuck was his pick but MB won't be picking 3rd overall again as he will have lost his job by then. I guess staying the course is good but is that enough for a Cup. At some point he needs to make a move. He's kidding himself if he thinks a cup is coming without acquiring a star player through a trade. This may be heresy, but I'm thinking if Price played for the Leafs Carlyle would still have a job and MT would by on L'Anti Chambre. I think he addressed that .. it's not an option to acquire a star player cause its not a option due to star players are not made available...and if they are I'm guessing we need to send a star player back in return(That's what he meant with the polar station comment)......I think we are looking at Scherbak, Hudon or Andrighetto blossoming into that star player we so desperately need As I said, it is all self serving. It's absolute nonsense that you can't trade for a star. He simply says it so fans won't expect it of him and will let him off the hook when he fails to do it. "Every man (gm) has a price". MB has to find that gm and that price. Usually teams that are close to a cup and want to improve for the immediate future trade prospects (draft choices and players in the system) and players on the team that are of use to the other team yet redundant to the gm's current team. So for MB that could include first and second rounder(s), Hudon, Androghetto, Pleks, DD, Gilbert, Pateryn, Toker, etc: a lot of players and part of our future. That's how it works. MB isn't to doing his job if he can't manufacture such a trade. Ya, he may have to over pay given how the prospects turn out in the long run but our benefit is for the immediate future and that is a cup.
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Post by jkr on May 17, 2015 12:42:46 GMT -5
I think he addressed that .. it's not an option to acquire a star player cause its not a option due to star players are not made available...and if they are I'm guessing we need to send a star player back in return(That's what he meant with the polar station comment)......I think we are looking at Scherbak, Hudon or Andrighetto blossoming into that star player we so desperately need As I said, it is all self serving. It's absolute nonsense that you can't trade for a star. He simply says it so fans won't expect it of him and will let him off the hook when he fails to do it. "Every man (gm) has a price". MB has to find that gm and that price. Usually teams that are close to a cup and want to improve for the immediate future trade prospects (draft choices and players in the system) and players on the team that are of use to the other team yet redundant to the gm's current team. So for MB that could include first and second rounder(s), Hudon, Androghetto, Pleks, DD, Gilbert, Pateryn, Toker, etc: a lot of players and part of our future. That's how it works. MB isn't to doing his job if he can't manufacture such a trade. Ya, he may have to over pay given how the prospects turn out in the long run but our benefit is for the immediate future and that is a cup. Agreed on " every man has a price". Guys like Seguin, Spezza & voracek were all acquired by trade. That being said none of these players made the playoffs this year so having a star is no guarantee of success.
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Post by habsorbed on May 17, 2015 12:46:10 GMT -5
As I said, it is all self serving. It's absolute nonsense that you can't trade for a star. He simply says it so fans won't expect it of him and will let him off the hook when he fails to do it. "Every man (gm) has a price". MB has to find that gm and that price. Usually teams that are close to a cup and want to improve for the immediate future trade prospects (draft choices and players in the system) and players on the team that are of use to the other team yet redundant to the gm's current team. So for MB that could include first and second rounder(s), Hudon, Androghetto, Pleks, DD, Gilbert, Pateryn, Toker, etc: a lot of players and part of our future. That's how it works. MB isn't to doing his job if he can't manufacture such a trade. Ya, he may have to over pay given how the prospects turn out in the long run but our benefit is for the immediate future and that is a cup. Agreed on " every man has a price". Guys like Seguin, Spezza & voracek were all acquired by trade. That being said none of these players made the playoffs this year so having a star is no guarantee of success. None of those teams have Carey Price and PK Subban, nor were they poised to make a cup run.
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Post by Lord Bebop on May 17, 2015 12:46:48 GMT -5
I think he addressed that .. it's not an option to acquire a star player cause its not a option due to star players are not made available...and if they are I'm guessing we need to send a star player back in return(That's what he meant with the polar station comment)......I think we are looking at Scherbak, Hudon or Andrighetto blossoming into that star player we so desperately need As I said, it is all self serving. It's absolute nonsense that you can't trade for a star. He simply says it so fans won't expect it of him and will let him off the hook when he fails to do it. "Every man (gm) has a price". MB has to find that gm and that price. Usually teams that are close to a cup and want to improve for the immediate future trade prospects (draft choices and players in the system) and players on the team that are of use to the other team yet redundant to the gm's current team. So for MB that could include first and second rounder(s), Hudon, Androghetto, Pleks, DD, Gilbert, Pateryn, Toker, etc: a lot of players and part of our future. That's how it works. MB isn't to doing his job if he can't manufacture such a trade. Ya, he may have to over pay given how the prospects turn out in the long run but our benefit is for the immediate future and that is a cup. He has made that deal before when presented to him... vanek was a great add at the price we paid. Parenteau was another shot but on a lesser scale of coarse. Rumour was he was in on Vrbata. I ask do u think we have the pieces to land a big fish... Without taking away from our core....I don't think we will land Kessel,for example, with any package containing the pieces you stated above. I really don't know.... Honest question? Perhaps a better GM can do it??i think Bergeron is doing a good job..maybe I'm wrong
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Post by habsorbed on May 18, 2015 23:35:59 GMT -5
As I said, it is all self serving. It's absolute nonsense that you can't trade for a star. He simply says it so fans won't expect it of him and will let him off the hook when he fails to do it. "Every man (gm) has a price". MB has to find that gm and that price. Usually teams that are close to a cup and want to improve for the immediate future trade prospects (draft choices and players in the system) and players on the team that are of use to the other team yet redundant to the gm's current team. So for MB that could include first and second rounder(s), Hudon, Androghetto, Pleks, DD, Gilbert, Pateryn, Toker, etc: a lot of players and part of our future. That's how it works. MB isn't to doing his job if he can't manufacture such a trade. Ya, he may have to over pay given how the prospects turn out in the long run but our benefit is for the immediate future and that is a cup. He has made that deal before when presented to him... vanek was a great add at the price we paid. Parenteau was another shot but on a lesser scale of coarse. Rumour was he was in on Vrbata. I ask do u think we have the pieces to land a big fish... Without taking away from our core....I don't think we will land Kessel,for example, with any package containing the pieces you stated above. I really don't know.... Honest question? Perhaps a better GM can do it??i think Bergeron is doing a good job..maybe I'm wrong The simple answer to your question is 'Yes, we do have the pieces to land a big fish'. If a gm is prepared to trade first round picks anything is available. Does MB need to do that? Probably not. What he needs to do is look for a team that is rebuilding, wants to unload salaries as they know that their current star(s) will not be helpful a few years from now when their youngsters have developed. Carolina and Stall are an example. I don't want Kessel, but as you raised it, I think the Leafs would seriously consider taking Pleks, Beau, Toker and a second round pick for Kessel. They get rid of a guy who has been an expensive problem while picking up a legit top 2 centre, a dman who would be in their top 2 with huge potential, a potential starting goalie, and a 2nd rounder. In my mind that would be a steep price for us but we can do without Pleks; Toker is not going to be a starter for us; Beau will be a good one but gotta give something up to get something back; and the 2nd round pick is easily replaced.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 19, 2015 9:07:38 GMT -5
I'm kind of on the fence about our season ... I thought it was great finishing up 2nd overall in the league, but I'm not sure just how well we would have done if it weren't for Carey Price ... I qualify that by saying, the 4th-place Ottawa Senators were only 11 points out of first and the 5th-place Bruins were 14 pts back ... I'm not sure where we'd have been had Price not played the way he did ... at the same time, the team did impress me in the playoffs ... they took out Ottawa and could very well have taken out Tampa had they just a little bit of luck ... at the same time, I'm at a loss as to just where this effort came from, as the Habs were definitely the better team against Tampa ... having said that, throughout the season I thought the team was doing well, but I always felt the could have done better ... don't get me wrong, 110 points is reflective of an outstanding season; however, if this is the level of play the team is capable of, then why did we not see more of it in the regular season ... yes, we have the best player in the league in Price (in my estimation), but at the same time the team showed it is capable of much more ... during is post-season presser, I thought Marc Bergevin did a great job in detailing the reality of today's NHL, but I also found him to be evasive when talking about specific players ... other than Jeff Petry, he was very non-committal ... he praised both Tomas Plekanec and David Desharnais, but like I was saying earlier, he didn't say he wouldn't entertain moving them later ... that said, he can't very well come out and say 'the organization is going in a different direction' because all that would do is put other GMs in the drivers seat ... so, in summary, I'm kind of on the fence ... it was a great year, yes, but we need scoring and after listening to Bergevin, I suspect that might have to come from within the system, itself ... that, and next season I'd like to see more of the kind of effort we saw in the playoffs this year ... like, where did that come from ...
Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on May 19, 2015 10:15:18 GMT -5
I didn't hear the PC but in one writer's opinion, Berg came across as occasionally aggressive. Almost like he was challenging questioners. Many writers descrobed him as evasive. That's natural so I wouldn't expect him to give away any state secrets.
I'm very disappointed about Lefebvre. An obvious failure who Berg refuses to correct. It's making me wonder what other aspects are there that stubbornness may be getting in the way of correcting?
One day I need to go over his deals since taking over to grade how well he's done on building a team, other than relying on Gauthier's base.
The simplest, cheapest way to improve the team is to bring in a coach who can implement a good system, combine the right players, and adjust on the fly. That seems to be the last thing on Bergs mind, though. If we can believe what he says, which isn't always the case. Oh well. Twenty-two will stretch into 23, 24 and so on.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 19, 2015 10:57:41 GMT -5
I didn't hear the PC but in one writer's opinion, Berg came across as occasionally aggressive. Almost like he was challenging questioners. I would say, yes, he was that ... almost like he knew what the questions were going to be ahead of time ... came across like he had a defensive mechanism in place ... Did not know this ... Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on May 19, 2015 11:09:52 GMT -5
To avoid any confusion created by tiny iPhone keyboards, the word was 'described' not 'de-robed'.
Reminds me of the old joke where the monk says "the word was 'celebrate'!'
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Post by Polarice on May 19, 2015 11:15:43 GMT -5
I don't believe that anyone in management including MB believes we are 110 pt team. If anything we are around the 90's somewhere if it weren't for Price.
I honestly can't see MB not trying to improve of lack of scoring this summer.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 19, 2015 12:03:45 GMT -5
I don't believe that anyone in management including MB believes we are 110 pt team. If anything we are around the 90's somewhere if it weren't for Price. I honestly can't see MB not trying to improve of lack of scoring this summer. There's the delima for sure ... do you move a centre with seven 20-goal seasons in Tomas Plekanec to bring in scoring ... if he is involved in a trade and the guy coming over produces a 20(ish)-goal season, what will that have accomplished ... besides, Tomas had a 60-point campaign this year ... not too shabby for a 2nd-line centre ... I also remember hearing Marc Bergevin saying he was building the team for the long haul and he won't be doing that any time soon if he decides to mortgage the future ... don't get me wrong, guys, I wanted a Cup this year (and I'll be expecting one next year, too), but I also like the direction the team is moving ... in my opinion, Bergevin is the best GM we've had since Serge Savard ... I don't know the secret to success, but the secret to failure is to try and please everyone ... Bergevin is not failing ... not yet, anyway ... Cheers.
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Post by Polarice on May 19, 2015 12:11:35 GMT -5
I don't believe that anyone in management including MB believes we are 110 pt team. If anything we are around the 90's somewhere if it weren't for Price. I honestly can't see MB not trying to improve of lack of scoring this summer. There's the delima for sure ... do you move a centre with seven 20-goal seasons in Tomas Plekanec to bring in scoring ... if he is involved in a trade and the guy coming over produces a 20(ish)-goal season, what will that have accomplished ... besides, Tomas had a 60-point campaign this year ... not too shabby for a 2nd-line centre ... I also remember hearing Marc Bergevin saying he was building the team for the long haul and he won't be doing that any time soon if he decides to mortgage the future ... don't get me wrong, guys, I wanted a Cup this year (and I'll be expecting one next year, too), but I also like the direction the team is moving ... in my opinion, Bergevin is the best GM we've had since Serge Savard ... I don't know the secret to success, but the secret to failure is to try and please everyone ... Bergevin is not failing ... not yet, anyway ... Cheers. I don't think trading Pleks will help us much, he produces well in the regular season....he's doesn't get many points in the playoffs, but he's there covering the other teams best players. We know we have to make room at centre for Gally, and there are rumours that he is getting offers from the KHL. I can see DD being dealt for a pick and or a prospect allowing Gally to move up to first line centre. I agree that we will probably see tinkering within rather from outside the club.
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Post by franko on May 19, 2015 12:18:07 GMT -5
To avoid any confusion created by tiny iPhone keyboards, the word was 'described' not 'de-robed'. Reminds me of the old joke where the monk says "the word was 'celebrate'!' and the one where the guy couldn't remember circumcise when he asked for an operation.
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Post by Lord Bebop on May 19, 2015 15:24:59 GMT -5
He has made that deal before when presented to him... vanek was a great add at the price we paid. Parenteau was another shot but on a lesser scale of coarse. Rumour was he was in on Vrbata. I ask do u think we have the pieces to land a big fish... Without taking away from our core....I don't think we will land Kessel,for example, with any package containing the pieces you stated above. I really don't know.... Honest question? Perhaps a better GM can do it??i think Bergeron is doing a good job..maybe I'm wrong The simple answer to your question is 'Yes, we do have the pieces to land a big fish'. If a gm is prepared to trade first round picks anything is available. Does MB need to do that? Probably not. What he needs to do is look for a team that is rebuilding, wants to unload salaries as they know that their current star(s) will not be helpful a few years from now when their youngsters have developed. Carolina and Stall are an example. I don't want Kessel, but as you raised it, I think the Leafs would seriously consider taking Pleks, Beau, Toker and a second round pick for Kessel. They get rid of a guy who has been an expensive problem while picking up a legit top 2 centre, a dman who would be in their top 2 with huge potential, a potential starting goalie, and a 2nd rounder. In my mind that would be a steep price for us but we can do without Pleks; Toker is not going to be a starter for us; Beau will be a good one but gotta give something up to get something back; and the 2nd round pick is easily replaced. Eric Staal could be a target ....I think he's an ufa next year.... Might be acquired for the above pieces..... But is it worth giving up those pieces as it seems his big point producing years are long gone50-60 points which are pretty much what we get from pleks and DD.. Seems that would be a change just for the sake of change.. He is big and won a cup?? I don't think your Kessel proposal is enough to get the deal done.. Pleks is 33 and really not what a rebuilding team needs,... beau is on his way to becoming a good #3 or 4 I think( not bad trade value), toker first year wasn't that great. No one will be falling over themselves to get him... And a second is great and all but kessel is upper echelon scorer.... Leafs will want Galchenyuk as the centrepiece and then we add from there
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on May 20, 2015 7:47:18 GMT -5
I didn't hear the PC but in one writer's opinion, Berg came across as occasionally aggressive. Almost like he was challenging questioners. Many writers descrobed him as evasive. That's natural so I wouldn't expect him to give away any state secrets. AM, that is the actual radio signal, is a hit a miss thing depending on a lot of factors ... was driving into work this morning and had "Habs Breakfast" fading in and out of radio and they were talking about this very thing ... one of the hosts suggested that Marc Bergevin reminded him of Bob Gainey when he defended Patrice Brisebois from jeering fans a few years back ... they went onto say that Bergevin seemed to be aggressive insomuch as, he was confronting journalists rather than just fielding their questions ... now I'm starting to think that maybe Bergevin was still pretty hot about the season coming to an end ... as for the questions, themselves, most of them (in English, anyway) sounded like a montage of posts from internet blogs ... I'm not saying Bergevin visits blogs (unlike certain journalists) but he seemed prepared for most of those questions ... Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on May 20, 2015 11:05:12 GMT -5
There are a lot of sensible, reasonable bloggers and I find their questions respectful but blunt. These questions are aimed IMO on what will happen next to get the team to the next level. Is Therrien a Pleks in that he gets you to the playoffs but not through them? How will he improve scoring? How will he improve the PP? All good, obvious questions. They wouldn't have been a surprise to him. I suspect he was still feeling disappointed over the elimination. I also suspect, being a proud man that he's not happy with all the attention Yzerman is getting over the Lightning, when he hasn't done any better job. (You don't think getting a top line for almost nothing was all skill, do you?). So I'll forgive him for some emotional excess, but the questions aren't going away.
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