|
Post by habsorbed on Jun 27, 2015 1:54:54 GMT -5
Is everyone on summer vacation already? No thread to celebrate the 26th pick overall who will be hoisting a few Cups in his tenure. To be honest i've never heard of the guy. But that's what you get when you leave it up to me to start the thread. Have to trust MB on this one. But the best news of the day is how Cam Neely has blown up the Bruins. They will not be a playoff contender for some time. And Emeiln doesn't have to worry about his life anymore - unless he's traded to Anaheim
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 27, 2015 3:32:20 GMT -5
Lots of talk on another thread. Rather like this guy's talent. Given that Roy, Merkley, Bittner and others were still available, they wanted him. Talented D that is hard to play against. Was on the radar screen as good D options with this pick.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 27, 2015 6:41:54 GMT -5
Safe pick I think....should be a NHLer..... He was noticeable on the ice...when watching Scherbak I remember him being pretty aggressive on the ice standing guys up on the boards.. Skates well.. Hits well... Moves the puck well... Lots of talk about his big time shot
|
|
|
Post by Douper on Jun 27, 2015 6:51:52 GMT -5
Hard to get excited when you're picking so late. It's hit or miss time. With the team we have now and the young core it's time for MB to make this team better via trade or free Agency.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 27, 2015 8:26:13 GMT -5
Always hard to second guess draft picks since the scouts and staff know so much more and watch countless hours of film. In general I never have a problem picking a dman but I will admit that I was disappointed that they didn't draft a forward. Juulson was I think the 5th dman picked in the 1st round so we need to be realistic, but they obviously like his upside. Interesting that they passed on Jeremy Roy who many feel has Kris Letang type upside.
We'll see.
I'm still shocked by what Boston did. I live in the area and the fans and talk radio are furious. Makes me smile.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 27, 2015 8:45:59 GMT -5
I'm still shocked by what Boston did. I live in the area and the fans and talk radio are furious. Makes me smile. I really don't mind the club drafting another puck-moving, smart d-man ... he'll have plenty of mentors by the time he's ready for show, too ... I don't blame Boston fans for being mad ... trading Milan Lucic is akin to trading Cam Neeley ... great start for Don Sweeney ... and if they're rebuilding why wouldn't they try to keep Dougie Hamilton ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 27, 2015 9:17:33 GMT -5
Folks generally don't mind the Lucic deal, it's the Hamilton trade that has fans up in arms. To trade a young cornerstone player like that at his age and to get back nothing that helps right away is just weird. Word is that the Bs didn't want to pay Hamilton big money but they still could have signed him to a bridge deal like the Habs did with Subban and at least defer paying Hamilton until there is more cap room. But to trade him away now without a replacement? Fans were convinced the Bruins were going to use the picks to move up and draft Hanifin and when that didn't happen people really freaked out.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jun 27, 2015 9:55:38 GMT -5
I am, surprisingly enough, good with this pick. Time will tell of course, but he looks like he has the skills needed in the "new" NHL; decent size, good mobility, strong passer, good shooter, occasionally physical. Let's hope he is not a draft-year wonder. As Bergevin noted though he's got a good, pro-style coach in Kevin Constantine, so that should help. As for "helping the offense", unless you are talking about trading the pick that wasn't going to happen yesterday. Very slim chance that any forward drafted at 26 would have stepped in and helped the team next year. More likely that they will spend 2-3 years before they break into the NHL, 3-4 years before they become impact players. Which is only natural; break into the NHL at 20-21, become stars at 22-23. Either way, that pick isn't going to help us next year. Also, consider how Bergevin has drafted since taking over. This is his fourth draft, and if you look at the last three he has: * Drafted three forwards in the first round, no defensemen, * Drafted three forwards, one defenseman, and one goalie in the second round. So of his "top" picks, the ones most likely to make the NHL, he has drafted six forwards, one defenseman, and one goalie. Looks he spent a lot of capital trying to address the offense already, no? Heck, two years ago, in 2013, he didn't draft ANY defensemen. If you want to expand that, and include EVERY pick he has made in his three completed drafts then you have: * 16 forwards * 3 defensemen * 2 goalies Looking at it from that standpoint and you could make a pretty argument that he HAD to draft a defenseman (defensemen?) this year, because organizationally he has not addressed that position much at all.
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jun 27, 2015 10:15:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jun 27, 2015 10:17:08 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Gogie on Jun 27, 2015 10:22:11 GMT -5
Folks generally don't mind the Lucic deal, it's the Hamilton trade that has fans up in arms. To trade a young cornerstone player like that at his age and to get back nothing that helps right away is just weird. Word is that the Bs didn't want to pay Hamilton big money but they still could have signed him to a bridge deal like the Habs did with Subban and at least defer paying Hamilton until there is more cap room. But to trade him away now without a replacement? Fans were convinced the Bruins were going to use the picks to move up and draft Hanifin and when that didn't happen people really freaked out. From what I've read, Hamilton didn't want to stay in Boston. They supposedly made him a significant offer but he turned them down.
|
|
|
Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 27, 2015 13:50:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by stoat on Jun 27, 2015 18:02:44 GMT -5
Is everyone on summer vacation already? No thread to celebrate the 26th pick overall who will be hoisting a few Cups in his tenure. To be honest i've never heard of the guy. But that's what you get when you leave it up to me to start the thread. Have to trust MB on this one. But the best news of the day is how Cam Neely has blown up the Bruins. They will not be a playoff contender for some time. And Emeiln doesn't have to worry about his life anymore - unless he's traded to Anaheim I don't agree. The Bruins needed an overhaul. They couldn't make the 2014-15 playoffs with what they had aboard and 2015-16 would have been a repetition. Lucic is on the downgrade and Hamilton was getting expensive. I'll bet they wish they had been able to unload Chara for a first. As for Juulsen, I wonder if Bergevin had asked for Scherbak's opinion of his teammate.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 27, 2015 19:46:05 GMT -5
Folks generally don't mind the Lucic deal, it's the Hamilton trade that has fans up in arms. To trade a young cornerstone player like that at his age and to get back nothing that helps right away is just weird. Word is that the Bs didn't want to pay Hamilton big money but they still could have signed him to a bridge deal like the Habs did with Subban and at least defer paying Hamilton until there is more cap room. But to trade him away now without a replacement? Fans were convinced the Bruins were going to use the picks to move up and draft Hanifin and when that didn't happen people really freaked out. Wish I'd read this earlier ... they were okay with Milan Lucic leaving, eh ... I really thought he was a Bruin for life ... I'm getting the impression that Don Sweeney is already on the hot seat, but at the same time he's not responsible for the current cap situation ... man, though ... I never expected them to move Dougie Hamilton ... was Lucic okay with leaving, do you know ... #sonofagunCheers.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 27, 2015 19:58:46 GMT -5
From what I've read on hf, those that are wishing for Chia back are being met with comments about the hard reality that is he put them squarely where they are. I've read from impartial observers that while a rebuild might not be a bad idea, the manner in which it's been done is strange from the outside looking in.
Hamilton isn't happy. Ok, trade him. But there were some primo offers on the table. Lots of comments to suggest that the Flames offer wasn't the best.
Lucic? He's an awfully big part of the identity, but if you think he's a diminishing asset a year away from holding you ransom ...
I have a couple of friends that are Bruins fans, and they'd much rather have dealt Marchand than Lucic.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jun 27, 2015 20:36:17 GMT -5
I am, surprisingly enough, good with this pick. Time will tell of course, but he looks like he has the skills needed in the "new" NHL; decent size, good mobility, strong passer, good shooter, occasionally physical. Let's hope he is not a draft-year wonder. As Bergevin noted though he's got a good, pro-style coach in Kevin Constantine, so that should help. As for "helping the offense", unless you are talking about trading the pick that wasn't going to happen yesterday. Very slim chance that any forward drafted at 26 would have stepped in and helped the team next year. More likely that they will spend 2-3 years before they break into the NHL, 3-4 years before they become impact players. Which is only natural; break into the NHL at 20-21, become stars at 22-23. Either way, that pick isn't going to help us next year. Also, consider how Bergevin has drafted since taking over. This is his fourth draft, and if you look at the last three he has: * Drafted three forwards in the first round, no defensemen, * Drafted three forwards, one defenseman, and one goalie in the second round. So of his "top" picks, the ones most likely to make the NHL, he has drafted six forwards, one defenseman, and one goalie. Looks he spent a lot of capital trying to address the offense already, no? Heck, two years ago, in 2013, he didn't draft ANY defensemen. If you want to expand that, and include EVERY pick he has made in his three completed drafts then you have: * 16 forwards * 3 defensemen * 2 goalies Looking at it from that standpoint and you could make a pretty argument that he HAD to draft a defenseman (defensemen?) this year, because organizationally he has not addressed that position much at all. 16 forwards and yet has still not found the missing piece. I say found deliberately, because he refuses to address it, cause he is comfortable with the team we have. So given that, the only way we are getting that missing piece is by finding it in the draft, ..., so yes, we still need forwards, cause he hasn't found it yet.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jun 27, 2015 20:41:08 GMT -5
I have no idea who this guy is, or if he is a good evaluator ... He says a lot of good things, yet the things that jump out at me are "isn't a puck moving defenseman, has trouble with tougher breakout passes, and likes to use the boards to clear the zones " .... That describes our system to a tee! I am really not looking forward to this year, and it's nothing against Juulsen. He is years away, just like any forward would have been , but I was hoping all the talk of Bergevin talking to other GMs was more than talk.
|
|
|
Post by GNick99 on Jun 28, 2015 5:16:34 GMT -5
Lots of talk on another thread. Rather like this guy's talent. Given that Roy, Merkley, Bittner and others were still available, they wanted him. Talented D that is hard to play against. Was on the radar screen as good D options with this pick. He is good pick...seen him play several times while watching Schebak. Sleeper pick, will suprise
|
|
|
Post by Willie Dog on Jun 28, 2015 9:10:04 GMT -5
Lots of talk on another thread. Rather like this guy's talent. Given that Roy, Merkley, Bittner and others were still available, they wanted him. Talented D that is hard to play against. Was on the radar screen as good D options with this pick. He is good pick...seen him play several times while watching Schebak. Sleeper pick, will suprise Thanks for the info guys. Don't know anything about him.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jun 28, 2015 10:00:22 GMT -5
16 forwards and yet has still not found the missing piece. I say found deliberately, because he refuses to address it, cause he is comfortable with the team we have. So given that, the only way we are getting that missing piece is by finding it in the draft, ..., so yes, we still need forwards, cause he hasn't found it yet. Or maybe he has. Galchenyuk, despite constant the hand-wringing from fans, is on a nice upwards development swing, McCarron took a huge step forward last year (no pun intended), and Scherbak is a guy that I personally think has an outside chance of making the club this season. And then there is Charles Hudon, who was one of the leading rookie AHL scorers last year. So of those 16 forward that he has drafted he has four very serious top six candidates, all under the age of 21. I don't think it's fair to say that he hasn't addressed the scoring needs through the draft when very clearly he has been trying to do that, and the results, while not in yet, look very promising. As for a trade, and Bergevin being "comfortable" with his team: * He should be comfortable with it, they had 110 points last year, an elite goalie in his prime, an elite defenseman in his prime, and a very good scorer in his prime. Lots for other GMs to envy there. Doesn't mean he should rest on his laurels, but by the same token it doesn't mean he has to panic into a trade either. * Even if he isn't comfortable with it, we can't really expect him to come out and say "I need a top six scorer and I am prepared to give up just about anything to get one" now can we? Bergevin has played this "I'm comfortable with my team" and "it's too hard to get a scorer" card so well that half the people think he's serious, and the other half aren't sure. That's brilliant, because it (hopefully) means other GMs aren't sure about Bergevin either. Remember the Vanek deal? Bergevin said he contacted Snow early on, told him he was interested, but not that much, and to get back to him if he had nothing else. At the end of the day Snow was desperate to get something for Vanek and Bergevin made him feel like he was doing him a favor giving him as little as he did. Heck, Snow even threw in a draft pick to "get" us to take Vanek. Bergevin played that beautifully. Now obviously it's not going to work out that well all the time, but if you're in a tough negotiation it's obviously a lot better if your negotiating adversary doesn't really know how far, or how desperate you really are. Treat it the same way you would treat buying a new car; if you tell the salesman that you have no car, you need one for work tomorrow, you have a tonne of money and you just absolutely adore and need to have that one in the corner there, do you think you are going to get a good deal? Or would you do better telling him that you want to buy a car, you like that one over there, but the car you currently have works just fine, you're on a budget, and you know the dealership down the street offered me a similar model for a lot less? I'm comfortable with Bergevin saying he's comfortable, because it means he's looking for what he thinks is the right deal, and not the deal that is available right now. As I've been saying, he has the luxury of time on his side, and that's a luxury he shouldn't waste just because people feel he has to make a deal right now.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jun 28, 2015 19:30:03 GMT -5
I don't think we have the time some think we do ....we will know by Xmas.
Bergevin inherited a team that was not in rebuild mode, ... , he is going into year 4 in my opinion of the 5 yr plan, and we still need what we always needed. I see the window as being open for another 3 years, but other seem to want to start the 5 yr plan now.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Jun 29, 2015 0:38:49 GMT -5
I don't think we have the time some think we do ....we will know by Xmas. Bergevin inherited a team that was not in rebuild mode, ... , he is going into year 4 in my opinion of the 5 yr plan, and we still need what we always needed. I see the window as being open for another 3 years, but other seem to want to start the 5 yr plan now. I agree. MB was dealt a pretty nice hand when he took over. He's played it so he's still in the game, but he needs to pull a good card out of the deck to win. BC, I'm not sure what you mean about MB resting on his laurels. The players in the current lineup who have been critical to us being one of the better teams the last few years were not obtained by MB. And for the most part, the major deals MB has made with the intent to make us an elite team have failed. In my mind MB has no laurels to rest on other than treading water for 4 years now. That may prove to be a wise approach but usually people who tread water for any length of time drown or need to be rescued. One or two top 6 forwards may be just the life preserver needed.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jun 29, 2015 10:36:15 GMT -5
I don't think we have the time some think we do ....we will know by Xmas. Bergevin inherited a team that was not in rebuild mode, ... , he is going into year 4 in my opinion of the 5 yr plan, and we still need what we always needed. I see the window as being open for another 3 years, but other seem to want to start the 5 yr plan now. I agree. MB was dealt a pretty nice hand when he took over. He's played it so he's still in the game, but he needs to pull a good card out of the deck to win. BC, I'm not sure what you mean about MB resting on his laurels. The players in the current lineup who have been critical to us being one of the better teams the last few years were not obtained by MB. And for the most part, the major deals MB has made with the intent to make us an elite team have failed. In my mind MB has no laurels to rest on other than treading water for 4 years now. That may prove to be a wise approach but usually people who tread water for any length of time drown or need to be rescued. One or two top 6 forwards may be just the life preserver needed. I'm not sure that's entirely fair. As I've mentioned before this is a team that had Mike Weaver, Manny Malhotra and Rene Bourque in it's starting lineup first game of the year last season. Bergevin replaced the first two with Petry and Mitchell, both of whom are clear upgrades, and many would argue that Bourque's absence is addition by subtraction. As for Petry and Mitchell, the first is a top 3, perhaps even a top 2 defenseman, and the second is a clear upgrade for the fourth line, and perhaps even the third line. The fourth line may not be something to slap on a resume, but adding a top 3 defenseman at minimal cost is nothing to sneeze at. Especially not when your #2 is on the back nine of his career. If you want go back to 2012, Bergevin’s first year with the team, you’ll see that the changes have been rather massive. Gone are scrubs like Diaz, Weber, Campoli (!), Darche, Gomez, Kaberle, Leblanc, Nokelainen (51 games!), Blunden, Palushaj, etc.. Granted, these are all perimeter players, but they did play (unfortunately) rather significant roles on the team at that time. They’ve pretty much ALL been upgraded on, and while it’s easy to upgrade on a guy like Darche, it still has to be done. Our previous GMs weren’t so hot on that, now were they? By “resting on his laurels” I simply meant that he’s already made significant changes to the team compared to the beginning of last season, so I don’t think he feels it necessary to make more right now. For sure if it’s there, go for it. But I still feel he has until next year’s deadline to see if a viable and real Top Six option presents itself. Bergevin has probably been one of the more active GMs when it comes to dealing players during the season, so I would not be overly concerned if he “rests” right about now. That’s all I meant.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 29, 2015 11:20:57 GMT -5
BC, how would you grade him if, after the next trade deadline, we're pretty much the same team that we are today? In other words, no significant new forward and say, McCarron and Scherbak haven't developed to the next level where they can help the team.
I concur that he doesn't have to make a significant move yet, but the clock is running.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 29, 2015 11:38:13 GMT -5
As for a trade, and Bergevin being "comfortable" with his team: Well, he also said, "I'm not going to chase players July 1st" ... all I need do is look at what some of his predecessors did before him and I'm actually okay with that kind of self-control ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jun 29, 2015 12:14:36 GMT -5
As for a trade, and Bergevin being "comfortable" with his team: Well, he also said, "I'm not going to chase players July 1st" ... all I need do is look at what some of his predecessors did before him and I'm actually okay with that kind of self-control ... hmmm . . . as well, there's difference between chasing and looking . . .
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 29, 2015 12:22:24 GMT -5
Absolutely. The UFA game is slanted badly in the player's favour. Berg did really well with Petry and well enough with Mitchell, before they went to the auction block. Normally, though, you're simply buying a CAP headache. Unless the player is elite and would get paid top money anyway, it's an inefficient way to build your team.
|
|
|
Post by BadCompany on Jun 29, 2015 12:47:53 GMT -5
BC, how would you grade him if, after the next trade deadline, we're pretty much the same team that we are today? In other words, no significant new forward and say, McCarron and Scherbak haven't developed to the next level where they can help the team. I concur that he doesn't have to make a significant move yet, but the clock is running. If we're the same team, with the same problems, with no improvement in Galchenyuk, McCarron, Scherbak or anybody else, the power-play still sucks, overall scoring is bad, and we bow out meekly in the second round, then of course I would grade the year as a failure. But none of those things have happened yet, so I'm not quite ready to label him a mediocre GM just yet. The goal is to get better every year, and while yes, Bergevin did inherit a very nice core, he didn't screw it up the way other GMs around the league have (or previous Montreal GMs did), AND in my opinion he has made improvements. Perhaps not the big leaps that everybody wants, but comparing roster for roster and I find it hard to believe that people think the 2012 roster that finished last is anywhere close to this year's roster. On a player-by-player basis I would have to say that Bergevin has improved on just about every player that is no longer with the team. Here is the lineup for the last game of the 2012 season, after which Savard ( EDIT: Or, you know, Gauthier) was let go and Bergevin eventually hired. T. Plekanec C C. Campoli D T. Kaberle D B. Staubitz R J. Gorges D R. Bourque R G. Dumont C M. Blunden R D. Desharnais B. Geoffrion C A. Palushaj R F. St-Denis D M. Pacioretty L L. Leblanc C E. Cole L P. Subban D A. Markov D L. Eller C Injured players for that game were Yannick Weber (lower body), Brian Gionta (bicep surgery), Mathieu Darche (upper body), Travis Moen (upper body), Scott Gomez (concussion), and Raphael Diaz (lower body). That's just a god-awful lineup. So yes, I believe Bergevin has made this team better, and if most of that improvement came from players already in the system, then so be it. Ask Paul Holmgren if he now wishes he hadn't "gone for it" and kept his young core. "Do no harm" may be a boring approach to building a team, but sometimes it's the best one. Bergevin has made a lot of deals, and I believe he will continue to do so. So I'm not too worried if he doesn't happen to make one in the next week or so.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Jun 29, 2015 13:42:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Jun 29, 2015 15:42:47 GMT -5
But none of those things have happened yet, so I'm not quite ready to label him a mediocre GM just yet. Neither am I. I think he's done well overall. His biggest failing IMO is his judgment in his coaching staffs. The fact he didn't fire Lefebvre is an exclamation point to me. I can't help wondering what our scoring would be like under someone else.
|
|