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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 28, 2015 11:23:16 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2015 11:25:24 GMT -5
Not a big surprise. If the Coyotes are serious about the cap floor, and trading for Pronger's contract would suggest they are, picking up PAP for nothing but the contract would make some sense. If he's not picked up he'll be bought out, and create $2.6 million plus in space.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 28, 2015 11:30:31 GMT -5
Not surprised but man I thought we had a steal last summer when we made that trade..... We did walk away with a fifth rounder(Bradley) but I thought Parenteau would fit right onto our first line
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 28, 2015 12:22:39 GMT -5
Not a big surprise. If the Coyotes are serious about the cap floor, and trading for Pronger's contract would suggest they are, picking up PAP for nothing but the contract would make some sense. If he's not picked up he'll be bought out, and create $2.6 million plus in space. They split the cap $1.3 over the next two years. Kipper suggesting the Habs may go after Beleskey on July 1st. He is going to be the most overpaid guy in this year's free agency IMHO. The Berg likes hockey trades, so you have to wonder if he has some ideas in play. Guess he wasn't as sold on his entire roster as he recently implied in his interview!
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2015 12:24:51 GMT -5
Beleskey is a dangerous acquisition.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jun 28, 2015 12:33:45 GMT -5
Wonder what Marty is asking for in salary.
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Post by franko on Jun 28, 2015 12:41:28 GMT -5
Beleskey is a dangerous acquisition. Cash in . . . I've had one good year! Unfortunately someone will (over)pay.
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2015 12:41:44 GMT -5
Wonder what Marty is asking for in salary. MSL? Too much. He's done imo.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 28, 2015 12:49:13 GMT -5
Wonder what Marty is asking for in salary. MSL? Too much. He's done imo. Our right wing depth right now Gallagher Weise DSP Flynn I think MSL wouldn't look to bad
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Post by seventeen on Jun 28, 2015 13:09:04 GMT -5
Frankly, I don't think this looks that good on Berg. He keeps shifting one failed experiment after another (with contributions from MT) and now we have a CAP problem we didn't have not so long ago. I realize part of the reason is higher salaries for current young players. But I haven't liked this shifting from Cole to Ryder to Briere to Parenteau, none of which really solved our problems. And I'm not sure how much Therrien's misuse of these guys has led to their ineffectiveness. They're all scorers, not defensive guys, and I don't think Therrien has any affinity for those types of players. He LOVES DelaRose, (so do I, but I'm pretty sure he's not turning into a scorer). That's the kind of guy Therrien preferes, ensuring we're never going to score much and never win the Cup.
Which leads one to question how well he'll handle Galchenyuk.
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2015 13:11:46 GMT -5
MSL looked downright awful for the Rags this year. They're as much a defense first team as we are. Any gas he has left in the tank, which would be minimal imo, is further stifled by Therien.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 28, 2015 13:50:10 GMT -5
Frankly, I don't think this looks that good on Berg. He keeps shifting one failed experiment after another (with contributions from MT) and now we have a CAP problem we didn't have not so long ago. I realize part of the reason is higher salaries for current young players. But I haven't liked this shifting from Cole to Ryder to Briere to Parenteau, none of which really solved our problems. And I'm not sure how much Therrien's misuse of these guys has led to their ineffectiveness. They're all scorers, not defensive guys, and I don't think Therrien has any affinity for those types of players. He LOVES DelaRose, (so do I, but I'm pretty sure he's not turning into a scorer). That's the kind of guy Therrien preferes, ensuring we're never going to score much and never win the Cup. Which leads one to question how well he'll handle Galchenyuk. I guess but we finished with the second best record in the league Bergeron is doing a pretty good job IMO. I liked the cole/Ryderplus a pick and the briere/Parenteau plus a pick trades at the time... I think most applauded him for making these moves. Seems kinda like stopgap til either a trade fa or prospects steps up
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Post by flowerpower on Jun 28, 2015 14:10:41 GMT -5
Buying out Parenteau will permit Bergevin to sign Galcheniuk to a $7M bridge contract over 2 years (cap hit of $3.5M per year). To be active on the UFA market, I believe he has to trade Plekanec and his $5M cap hit.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 28, 2015 15:15:31 GMT -5
Didn't like the trade when it happened. We would have been better off keeping Briere and his expiring contract. My guess is nobody bited on Parenteau at $4 million and we either buy him out or trade him and eat part of his salary.
I can see what Berg was trying to do, PA was younger and arguably more productive than Briere, but this is one area where Berg has missed consistently. Overpaying for mid level scorers.
Better to free up a roster spot who can do what PA can for a fraction of the cost.
I hope Berg has learned his lesson.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 28, 2015 15:21:36 GMT -5
Agree 17.
Looking back we would have better of just keeping Cole, who has outscored both Briere and Parenteau over the past 2 years and his contract just expired as well.
Berg traded Cole for cap space which he ended up using on Briere and Parenteau AND he got stuck with an extra year of PA.....who he just put on waivers.
Mistakes get made and this isn't crippling but the lesson is its hard to find offense on the cheap. You either have to develop it or pay for it, but I hope Berg is done signing $4m UFAs who are cheap enough to be appealing but turn out to be too expensive for what they give you.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 28, 2015 16:09:05 GMT -5
Agree 17. Looking back we would have better of just keeping Cole, who has outscored both Briere and Parenteau over the past 2 years and his contract just expired as well. Berg traded Cole for cap space which he ended up using on Briere and Parenteau AND he got stuck with an extra year of PA.....who he just put on waivers. Mistakes get made and this isn't crippling but the lesson is its hard to find offense on the cheap. You either have to develop it or pay for it, but I hope Berg is done signing $4m UFAs who are cheap enough to be appealing but turn out to be too expensive for what they give you. That's what I meant...not that he's a lousy GM, just that in this particular chain of events, he wasn't willing to bite the bullet with Briere, admit it didn't work out and live with the contract which would have expired this year. In 20/20 hindsight, we wouldn't have been worse off with Briere than with Parenteau. I guess he gambled that we'd get more out of Parenteau. AS you pointed out, we may have been best off calorie wise simply keeping Cole, but there may have been other issues with him. Which brings up the other point that Berg has to address at some point. It's looking more and more like Therrien and scoring players don't mix well together. There will be the occasional exception (Patches), but there's more proof going the other way. Somehow, he's got to fix that. Get Therrien to adjust something or get someone else who can work offensively and defensively. PS. I know people are going to throw out the 110 point argument on his behalf, but in a couple of years, that may end up being the equivalent of the "Dirigibles have been a really safe way to travel" debate. We saw a few nights ago, the backbone of that 110 point season. I would prefer Therrien adjusted. He has some good things going for him, but the weaknesses are going to haunt us unless he adjusts.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Jun 28, 2015 16:59:38 GMT -5
Well he was trying to be creative....our team is based around a good goalie and defence and that's where our money is invested.... So we need to be creative in other areas.... We can go out and get Sharp and pay him $6 million but that's a hard contract to fit in our picture right now. Everyone what's better but in a cap world where does he go to get that top winger or top center?? Trade Price or Subban to get him...but now we got bigger holes to fill.
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Post by HFTO on Jun 28, 2015 17:10:19 GMT -5
Belesky would be a good get if the number wasn't toohigh but the danger is the guy behind the bench. Belesky has Decent edge but needs a top C to take advantage of his finish(Galchenyuk at C)bid he's not in your top 6 for whte it....same goes if they consider Frolik.
MT despite his record is a dangerous coach especially if you don't buy in right away...doesn't seem like too many second chances once your in the dog house....how long will DSP last and will we ever see what may or may it be there to his game?
May never buy into MT ....think he holds down our best 3 weapons already and 27 is on the cusp of being run out of town by some.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 28, 2015 17:32:04 GMT -5
17, you make a great point about Therrien having a problem with offense-first players. He needs to learn how to live with guys that don't always play a 200 foot game. The Bruins dumped Tyler Seguin in part because Julien didn't trust him defensively and they look like morons now. The best coaches see what their players do well and put them in positions to succeed. The goal isn't to turn every player into a two-way player as some guys will never be that. Pacioretty has developed that side of his game well, which may be partly due to Therrien, and that's great but you need horses to win and sometimes you have to let them run.
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Post by franko on Jun 28, 2015 18:00:10 GMT -5
MT is JM lite.
myopic and single-minded.
let him go back to L'Antichambre and complain about PK sooner than later.
OK: let the calls to ditch him summer begin!
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Post by seventeen on Jun 28, 2015 18:17:29 GMT -5
OK: let the calls to ditch him summer begin! Franko, I think you know that isn't going to happen. Bergevin is still staunchly in his corner. I'd love to see us get a legitimate scorer, which would then fulfill Berg's side of the bargain. At that point, certainly we fans, and very likely Geoff Molson, will have certain expectations and it will be up to Therrien to fish or cut bait (politically correct version of _ _ _ _ or get off the pot). Even if we don't get a scorer, I think the heat on MT gets turned up this year. Not everyone is convinced the 110 point version of the Habs is the real one and he'll have to show he can guide the team to a good record and a comfortable playoff position, even if Carey isn't lights out. That may help show us how much Therrien has changed, because in the past, when the pressure has risen, he's reverted back to the same spots the old leopard had. I hope we see a different leader because if not, with Berg's backing, we aren't getting anything different any time soon, which means we'll be wasting some good, prime years of several players.
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2015 18:32:21 GMT -5
Agree 17. Looking back we would have better of just keeping Cole, who has outscored both Briere and Parenteau over the past 2 years and his contract just expired as well. Berg traded Cole for cap space which he ended up using on Briere and Parenteau AND he got stuck with an extra year of PA.....who he just put on waivers. Mistakes get made and this isn't crippling but the lesson is its hard to find offense on the cheap. You either have to develop it or pay for it, but I hope Berg is done signing $4m UFAs who are cheap enough to be appealing but turn out to be too expensive for what they give you. I don't have a problem with the Cole trade. He'd become a clear malcontent, and his play was entirely indifferent. Berg saw it right away, and got it out of the locker room. It's likely he didn't get along with Therien and the new plan.
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Post by blny on Jun 28, 2015 18:33:55 GMT -5
Belesky would be a good get if the number wasn't toohigh but the danger is the guy behind the bench. Belesky has Decent edge but needs a top C to take advantage of his finish(Galchenyuk at C)bid he's not in your top 6 for whte it....same goes if they consider Frolik. MT despite his record is a dangerous coach especially if you don't buy in right away...doesn't seem like too many second chances once your in the dog house....how long will DSP last and will we ever see what may or may it be there to his game? May never buy into MT ....think he holds down our best 3 weapons already and 27 is on the cusp of being run out of town by some. Belesky is this this year's Bickell. I'd steer clear at just about any price. The Hawks are looking to buy out Bickell, and he's making $4 million. Belesky is shaping up to get even more, and that's a big mistake for whoever does it imo.
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Post by franko on Jun 28, 2015 18:49:25 GMT -5
OK: let the calls to ditch him summer begin! Franko, I think you know that isn't going to happen. ah, the (missing) comma or misplace participle or . . . whatever. so I repost: let the calls to ditch him begin -- it's summer! and yes, I realize that it won't happen until he has a chance to prove himself again this season -- or to prove his naysayers right.
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Post by Skilly on Jun 28, 2015 19:34:17 GMT -5
Frankly, I don't think this looks that good on Berg. He keeps shifting one failed experiment after another (with contributions from MT) and now we have a CAP problem we didn't have not so long ago. I realize part of the reason is higher salaries for current young players. But I haven't liked this shifting from Cole to Ryder to Briere to Parenteau, none of which really solved our problems. And I'm not sure how much Therrien's misuse of these guys has led to their ineffectiveness. They're all scorers, not defensive guys, and I don't think Therrien has any affinity for those types of players. He LOVES DelaRose, (so do I, but I'm pretty sure he's not turning into a scorer). That's the kind of guy Therrien preferes, ensuring we're never going to score much and never win the Cup. Which leads one to question how well he'll handle Galchenyuk. Add in the 5 month Sekac experiment.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 28, 2015 21:27:13 GMT -5
I was fine with the Cole trade because Berg freed up a lot of future cap space by swapping Cole for Ryder. But once Berg blew the space on Briere/PA then that changed everything.
On the ice Cole was a slow starter and he spent most of the summer before the lockout running his mouth rather than getting in shape. He wasn't ready when the season started and Berg pulled the trigger.
But I loved Cole's game when he was here. Big, physical, and went harder to the net than Pacioretty. And as it turned out Cole scored 37 goals in the last 2 years and we got 21 combined out of Briere and PA.
It goes a bit to what 17 was saying. If you are not a Therrien type player you end up in his doghouse. Cole ended pissing off MT but we were a worse team as a result of that trade.
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Post by habsorbed on Jun 29, 2015 0:21:09 GMT -5
Glad to see PAP gone. I don't see any coach really liking his style. Don't get me wrong. I'm no MT apologist. On the contrary. If you asked me would i rather another top 6 forward or a new coach, I would select new coach. In fact with a new coach we may not need a another top 6 and I'd probably be happy with MB standing pat. As has been said, it maybe that it isn't MB failing to get good scorers but just that MT doesn't use them properly. Either way you look at it however, MB has to own this. Either his FA pick ups have been horrible or he's hired the wrong coach.
I would be happy to see MSL with us for a year at a reasonable price. Question is whether other teams would pay him enough that he would turn down a low offer to finish his career in his homeland. One thing about MSL, he always gives you an effort. With the CH on his chest he might have one or two decent years left. 20+ goals would be weak by his standards but would do us quite well. I also think he would help our PP hugely. If he's not MT's kind of player then just play him on the PP and give him spot duty on the 4th line.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 29, 2015 7:38:24 GMT -5
Glad to see PAP gone. I don't see any coach really liking his style. Don't get me wrong. I'm no MT apologist. On the contrary. If you asked me would i rather another top 6 forward or a new coach, I would select new coach. In fact with a new coach we may not need a another top 6 and I'd probably be happy with MB standing pat. As has been said, it maybe that it isn't MB failing to get good scorers but just that MT doesn't use them properly. Either way you look at it however, MB has to own this. Either his FA pick ups have been horrible or he's hired the wrong coach. I would be happy to see MSL with us for a year at a reasonable price. Question is whether other teams would pay him enough that he would turn down a low offer to finish his career in his homeland. One thing about MSL, he always gives you an effort. With the CH on his chest he might have one or two decent years left. 20+ goals would be weak by his standards but would do us quite well. I also think he would help our PP hugely. If he's not MT's kind of player then just play him on the PP and give him spot duty on the 4th line. From what I have read, he does not want to leave the New York area.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 29, 2015 8:31:18 GMT -5
Unless Berg is going to do something bigger, I say sign Chucky and use the open forward spot to break in a young prospect and use the extra cap space to swing a deal later.
At this point I'd rather see Hudon, Bournival, or Andrighetto on the team at bargain prices than overpaying yet again for a player like Patrick Sharp. After the Briere/PA fiascos, I don't want Berg bringing in Sharp at $5.9 million. He's the kind of player that needs to be a perfect fit with what we have and I'm just not sure Therrien would know what to do with a guy like that. At 33 years old, he's ripe for a slide. That would make me nervous.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 29, 2015 9:00:29 GMT -5
Unless Berg is going to do something bigger, I say sign Chucky and use the open forward spot to break in a young prospect and use the extra cap space to swing a deal later. At this point I'd rather see Hudon, Bournival, or Andrighetto on the team at bargain prices than overpaying yet again for a player like Patrick Sharp. After the Briere/PA fiascos, I don't want Berg bringing in Sharp at $5.9 million. He's the kind of player that needs to be a perfect fit with what we have and I'm just not sure Therrien would know what to do with a guy like that. At 33 years old, he's ripe for a slide. That would make me nervous. Pretty much sums up what I thought as well ... Patrick Sharp has lost a step and he'll soon be losing his supporting cast if Chicago can find a sucker taker ... I don't know if we have any young talent ready to move into a top-six position right off the bat, but you never know ... I'm hoping there will will be few youngsters at training camp who will give some veterans cause to look over their shoulders ... Cheers.
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