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Post by habsburgher on Jul 1, 2015 20:00:47 GMT -5
This is the kind of trade good GM's make. I like Prust but he is a declining asset and Kassian has upside with little risk. Good work in my opinion.
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 1, 2015 20:09:35 GMT -5
It will be very funny if he works out... first Weise then Kassian... nucks fans won't want their team to make trades with the habs. Living in Vanc I end up seeing and hearing a lot about the Canucks. I loved the Weise trade when it went down and how little we gave up. I have the same feeling about this trade. Sure Prust is an asset but Kassian could be that big, strong, mean power forward that will take us over the hurdle. He's still just a kid and has all the tools.
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 1, 2015 20:10:43 GMT -5
I love(d) Prusty but it's time. He's been slowing down. I like the trade, Kassian is immature and may never grow up. BUT he may also be a legitimate top 6. He's now at the age where he has to take the next step. If he doesn't we gave up Prust for a bust but Prust is replaceable. If Kassian turns out to be the power forward many scouts and gms anticipated, this is a steal. Much rather this deal than some FA signing which costs much more $$ and does not have the potential upside of Kassian. Don't know if he ever got a fair shot in Vanc as the fans were so upset about losing Hodgson. What do they know. I think this is a calculated gamble and I like it. Minimal downside with huge upside. Warning: Zach can be a bit of a head case but perhaps some strong leadership will shake that. I couldn't say it better myself.... I know everyone will hate it but he will likely be playing top 6 RW minutes as we are desperate to get some jam into our lineup... We tried with DSP and Weise and Prust. I guess it takes time and a lot of shuffling to get the right chemistry. He's got some wheels and good hands for passing or goals.... Looking for the toolbox Yup. He may be another Guillame Latendresse. But at this point he is meaner, stronger, will fight and has softer hands so it's worth a shot. We've been clamouring for a top 6 forward and we may have just got one. I won't be surprised if he scores 20 assuming no injuries.Prust wasn't going to be a top 6 and all of the FAs we're an equal risk at a much greater cap hit for a long period. What does surprise me about the trade is that MB is always looking for character guys and Kassian doesn't have that reputation. Ironic that MB gave up a heart and soul guy. In any event, hopefully it is just a mater of maturity. We'll know we got trouble if Kassain demands to wear the same number he wore for the Canucks
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Post by Skilly on Jul 1, 2015 20:14:08 GMT -5
I'm a little baffled at the timing.
Why July 1st? Vancouver wasn't going to be active during the Free Agency Frenzy. They had no money. Trading Kassian was not an attempt to free up space for a move. Montreal, while rumoured to be in on a few players, we all knew Bergevin wasn't a real player.
This trade could have waited, so why today? Not that it mattered, but most trades today are attempts to free up space to sign a FA, or salary dumps ...
Unless Kassian was a player Bergevin was targeting for awhile ... But like people said, he doesn't fit the typical Bergevin player mold.
If Kassian turns into a top 6 player, it's a good move. We have no other viable options to use
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 1, 2015 20:22:31 GMT -5
I'm a little baffled at the timing. Why July 1st? Vancouver wasn't going to be active during the Free Agency Frenzy. They had no money. Trading Kassian was not an attempt to free up space for a move. Montreal, while rumoured to be in on a few players, we all knew Bergevin wasn't a real player. This trade could have waited, so why today? Not that it mattered, but most trades today are attempts to free up space to sign a FA, or salary dumps ... May be nothing more then a lot of gms talking the past few days and ideas and suggestions pop up. From Benning's perspective he's been loading up on draft picks (he fancies himself a great talent scout) and I think the fan base was starting to worry the Canucks were giving up on this season. Prust sends a different message. From MB's perspective, fans and pundits were saying we needed more size (standard refrain) and a top 6 to address our scoring woes. Perhaps neither gm could stand pat on this big day and are now able to say they're trying. I feel better about this deal than I did about Briere and PAP.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 1, 2015 20:28:32 GMT -5
This is the kind of trade good GM's make. I like Prust but he is a declining asset and Kassian has upside with little risk. Good work in my opinion. My only nagging concern is that chemistry is a big thing on a championship team. Of course you build chemistry by winning a championship, but first you need a team with those "glue guys" that hold the room together when things get tight. Prust was one of those guys on the team, that's all I'm saying and he was the only part of the leadership group that would drop 'em if need be. So logic says that this was a good hockey move, getting a younger, bigger, and cheaper version of Prust and greeting some more upside. But Kassian seems like he could be Chad Kilger and he brings none of the intangibles that Prust did. We need as many of those guys that we can get to win a Cup and I can see Brandon Prust's name on the Stanley Cup before I can see Zach Kassian.
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Post by blny on Jul 1, 2015 20:31:24 GMT -5
I don't know that anyone has reported on who initiated the trade. Could be that Benning wanted Prust.
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Post by del on Jul 1, 2015 20:54:01 GMT -5
Listen folks......there is nothing wrong with Zack Kassian that an implant or bridge won't fix!
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Post by franko on Jul 1, 2015 21:10:56 GMT -5
Benning has been trying to dump Kassian for a while
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Post by jkr on Jul 1, 2015 21:30:39 GMT -5
This is the kind of trade good GM's make. I like Prust but he is a declining asset and Kassian has upside with little risk. Good work in my opinion. I can see Brandon Prust's name on the Stanley Cup before I can see Zach Kassian. Not as long as he's playing in Vancouver.
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 1, 2015 21:31:15 GMT -5
Pundits said the Rags leadership and effort level would take a hit when Prust left. The Rags seemed to do pretty well without him.
With all due respect to Buff and the Canucks they haven't exactly been the epicentre for developing young talent. As well, while I have respect for Willie Desjardins, I'm not so sure he commands the kind of respect that would get Zach's attention. MT will set things straight pretty quick or Zach will enjoy playing his contract out in the AHL. If our only loss on this deal is Prust for a 5th rounder then I can live with that. Didn't think he played all that well last season and has clearly hit his best before date.
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Post by jkr on Jul 1, 2015 21:32:18 GMT -5
I Craig Button on TSN is furious saying that this is a bad trade for us that settles it. if Button is against it, I'm for it. They moved a 31 year old 4th liner making more money for a similar but younger & cheaper version. Why the outrage?
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Post by folatre on Jul 1, 2015 21:33:33 GMT -5
I was not expecting anything today, so it seemed like big surprise this news.
Is Kassian mature enough (and healthy enough) to take third chance in his young career?
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Post by jkr on Jul 1, 2015 21:36:16 GMT -5
This is the kind of trade good GM's make. I like Prust but he is a declining asset and Kassian has upside with little risk. Good work in my opinion. Nice to see you back.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 1, 2015 22:13:27 GMT -5
I was not expecting anything today, so it seemed like big surprise this news. Is Kassian mature enough (and healthy enough) to take third chance in his young career? Kind of reminds me of Chad Kilger a bit ... him or Dale Weise ... really surprised me that Brandon Prust went the other way ... welcome to Zach Kassian ... Cheers.
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Post by folatre on Jul 1, 2015 22:56:04 GMT -5
I think everyone in the Canadiens organisation loves and respects Prust, but this is business. The logic is there in money as well as not subtracting a point producer from the existing inadequate offensive club. It is fantasy, but how great it would be have to dump Emelin or Gilbert for the right to play the Kassian lottery ticket.
Kilger was a top ten draft pick, size, good wheels but bad hands and it just seemed like hockey stopped being that important to him. Hopefully Kassian loves the game and welcomes the accountabilitly (short leash) as the reality of third chance.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 1, 2015 22:58:58 GMT -5
I Craig Button on TSN is furious saying that this is a bad trade for us that settles it. if Button is against it, I'm for it. That's bothering me too.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 1, 2015 23:03:03 GMT -5
I was not expecting anything today, so it seemed like big surprise this news. Is Kassian mature enough (and healthy enough) to take third chance in his young career? Kind of reminds me of Chad Kilger a bit ... him or Dale Weise ... really surprised me that Brandon Prust went the other way ... welcome to Zach Kassian ... Cheers. Kilger and Weise are both a fair bit faster. Well maybe not Kilger. He is 38 after all.
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 2, 2015 7:16:06 GMT -5
Pundits said the Rags leadership and effort level would take a hit when Prust left. The Rags seemed to do pretty well without him. With all due respect to Buff and the Canucks they haven't exactly been the epicentre for developing young talent. As well, while I have respect for Willie Desjardins, I'm not so sure he commands the kind of respect that would get Zach's attention. MT will set things straight pretty quick or Zach will enjoy playing his contract out in the AHL. If our only loss on this deal is Prust for a 5th rounder then I can live with that. Didn't think he played all that well last season and has clearly hit his best before date. I agree, in that while Prust's presence in the locker room was huge, I think it will survive. This is Carey's team, and to (only slightly) lesser extent's PK and Pacioretty's team. Prust was undoubtedly needed as a bridge to those guys, but I think they are ready for the crowns now. And I think it will be up to THOSE guys, not MT, to get Kassian into the program. I'm not a Canuck expert, but it seems that organizationally, from the GM on down through the Sedins, they seem to be a pretty loose ship. Could just be my impression, but the way the whole goalie thing was handled, and even the whole Hodgson thing, smacks of amateurs to me. Cripes, the bitterness with which they said goodbye to Kassian yesterday seems pretty amateur to me as well. As for the Sedins, as great as they are, they don't strike me a true leaders anymore than Tomas Plekanec does. I think the Canucks need Prust a lot more at this point than we do. Hopefully Kassian buys into the program, and if nothing else becomes a 10 goal fourth liner. Which is still double what Prust brings. And if he "gets it"... well who knows? See Matt Beleskey for inspiration. Having said all that... I'm still going to miss Prust.
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Post by jerry_dog on Jul 2, 2015 9:03:54 GMT -5
I don't know that anyone has reported on who initiated the trade. Could be that Benning wanted Prust. I listened to a radio interview with Trevor Linden yesterday and he said they had been calling about aquiring B. Prust for 'a while' and the deal finally 'got done today'.
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Post by habsorbed on Jul 2, 2015 9:48:13 GMT -5
I don't know that anyone has reported on who initiated the trade. Could be that Benning wanted Prust. I listened to a radio interview with Trevor Linden yesterday and he said they had been calling about aquiring B. Prust for 'a while' and the deal finally 'got done today'. So perhaps MB was hoping to land a potential top 6 at the draft or on FA day and realized it wasn't going to happen so decided to take a flyer on Kassian. I'm good with that. Could lighting strike the Canucks twice? And I'm not talking Dale Weise. I'm talking Cam Neely
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 2, 2015 11:42:28 GMT -5
Not impressed
Prust provided grit, intensity, character, leadership, good pk presence... Prust wouldn't think twice about defending a teammate or stiring up the pot... how many times have we said in the past that this team badly needed such a player... and really Prust just turned 31 March, not 36...
...and for what?
A player with good tools but who at 24 has already had 2 organizations gave up on him. Questionable work ethic and back problems... A guy who's not cut to be a good bottom 6 player, so the only way this works is if he can manage to become a top 6 player in Montreal, the chances of that hapenning are incredibly slim.
We traded a huge chunk of our team's character for a suspect experiment...
In my mind the potential of this deal turning out to be a substaction more than an addition is way higher.
Not the move of a GM trying to reach next level.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 2, 2015 13:04:12 GMT -5
Not impressed Prust provided grit, intensity, character, leadership, good pk presence... Prust wouldn't think twice about defending a teammate or stiring up the pot... how many times have we said in the past that this team badly needed such a player... and really Prust just turned 31 March, not 36... ...and for what? A player with good tools but who at 24 has already had 2 organizations gave up on him. Questionable work ethic and back problems... A guy who's not cut to be a good bottom 6 player, so the only way this works is if he can manage to become a top 6 player in Montreal, the chances of that hapenning are incredibly slim. We traded a huge chunk of our team's character for a suspect experiment... In my mind the potential of this deal turning out to be a substaction more than an addition is way higher. Not the move of a GM trying to reach next level. I'd like to think prust will be hab again at the end of this season. Prust has a business and his fiancé in Montreal and i hope he would sign as a free agent. Also I've thought that Prust would be an excellent mentor for the young kids the habs bring in.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 2, 2015 13:39:01 GMT -5
I read a story by Tony Gallagher (good reporter) in today's Province paper. He thought the Canucks gave up too soon and tried to turn Kassian into a hitter, which Gallagher doesn't think he is. He feels he's a finesse player with good hands (true) trapped in a big body that doesn't mind fighting. Remember Berg's comment that he doesn't need to hit to be effective?
Gallagher also felt ( and this is ironic) that he was punished very quickly for making a mistake. I believe he said Linden Vey could throw the puck in front of his net numerous times with no consequences, but if Kassian did it once...,boom.
So Gallagher's take is that the Nucks failed on development and that Kassian still has a lot of potential. He did confirm the back was an issue. Kassian says he's healthy. So there may indeed still be some upside if he's used wisely and we have patience with him. (Crowd still laughing so hard they can't pick themselves up off the floor).
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Post by duster on Jul 2, 2015 14:28:20 GMT -5
I can understand to a point why Bergevin did the trade (cheaper, bigger, younger, faster) but I don't think Prust was part of the problem. The trade doesn't address the scoring issue in any way. Based on what I've seen of him here with the Canucks, Kassian reminds me of Rene Bouque and I can see him becoming a regular in MT's doghouse.
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Post by blny on Jul 2, 2015 14:45:40 GMT -5
I can understand to a point why Bergevin did the trade (cheaper, bigger, younger, faster) but I don't think Prust was part of the problem. The trade doesn't address the scoring issue in any way. Based on what I've seen of him here with the Canucks, Kassian reminds me of Rene Bouque and I can see him becoming a regular in MT's doghouse. At least it's only a one year experiment, and less than half the price of Bourque. I have to wonder if Prust's antics in the Tampa series had anything to do with ...
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 2, 2015 15:02:48 GMT -5
Not impressed Prust provided grit, intensity, character, leadership, good pk presence... Prust wouldn't think twice about defending a teammate or stiring up the pot... how many times have we said in the past that this team badly needed such a player... and really Prust just turned 31 March, not 36... ...and for what? A player with good tools but who at 24 has already had 2 organizations gave up on him. Questionable work ethic and back problems... A guy who's not cut to be a good bottom 6 player, so the only way this works is if he can manage to become a top 6 player in Montreal, the chances of that hapenning are incredibly slim. We traded a huge chunk of our team's character for a suspect experiment... In my mind the potential of this deal turning out to be a substaction more than an addition is way higher. Not the move of a GM trying to reach next level. That's exactly what I was saying, Doc. On paper this seems like a good "value" play. We get a younger, cheaper player with upside. But Prust is one of those glue guys you need to hold a room together and he was probably our toughest forward. I see Kassian as the next Chad Kilger (great size, draft pedigree, but otherwise a replacement level player) and your point about 2 teams bailing on him before age 24 is a good one. I hope he's more than that, but the trend would suggest otherwise. If Kassian is just another 5-10 goal guy, I'd rather have Prust and all his intangibles any day of the week. Again, I can see the point of the trade I just think it was too much a "by the numbers" move. Prust did way more for this team than showed up on the scoresheet. And it's NOT the move of a GM who thinks we can be a Cup team next year. If that were the case, he'd hold on to Prust. This is more about future options and potential upside. I don't like that, but I hope I'm wrong about Kassian.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 2, 2015 16:04:59 GMT -5
This next thought is not directed as a criticism of Berg, but it is a valid point. Andrew Berkshire, who is indeed critical of management, points out that of the 8 players you can class as the core of the team, 7 of them originate from the Gainey/gauthier era. I believe he classes Petry as the core player added by Berg. Obviously part of that is because the drafts since he's taken over haven't matured yet. Berkshire classes galchy as a Gauthier pick since we sucked under Gauthier.
Berg has yet to make that definitive move that makes this team his. Hopefully it comes this year.
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Post by franko on Jul 2, 2015 16:18:46 GMT -5
I read a story by Tony Gallagher (good reporter) in today's Province paper. More from Gallagher: Maybe (Kassian)’s a total cement-head and the Habs have made a bad deal. But after watching him play, mistakes and all included, believing that is just very difficult to accept this early in his career. For Vancouver to trade him for a plug like Brandon Prust, whose $2.5-million cap hit is expensive for a penalty-killer, represents paying Montreal for taking him off their hands. linkbut oh-oh . . . many of the bonehead moves he did make here were in part because he was on a different line every five minutes.
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 2, 2015 16:39:29 GMT -5
The trade doesn't address the scoring issue in any way. I guess that depends on how you want to address the scoring issue. No, he probably isn't a 30 goal scorer, but consider that Montreal finished 20th in the league last year with 214 goals. Kassian scored 10, which is 6 more than Prust's 4. They played pretty much the same role, bouncing up and down the lineup, with almost the same amount of ice time. I'll ignore that Kassian played 40 less games. Six extra goals gives us 220 on the year, moving us up from 20th to 17th, in a tie with Chicago (and ahead of Pittsburgh). Add Mitchell's 5 goals extra (over Malhotra's 1) and we're up to 15th in the league, ahead of San Jose! Throw in Petry instead of Weaver and we're an actual top 10 team in scoring! I'm being a bit facetious of course, but only a bit. One way to score more goals is to get guys who score more goals. Sometime they come in one fell swoop, like a 30 goal scorer, but sometimes they're spread out throughout the lineup. There is no doubt that Petry will score more than Weaver, or that Mitchell will score more than Malhotra. Odds are pretty good that Kassian will score more than 4 goals, even if he does stink here. So Bergevin has addressed the scoring issue, just not with the big gesture. I don't know if it will be enough - too many other variables come into play for that to be an accurate prediction - but the central point remains; if you want to score more goals, you have to get guys who score more goals. That's what Bergevin did, and in the case of Prust he sacrificed a guy from a position of strength; leadership, of which Prust, while having a lot of it, was not considered to be part of the core leadership group. We shall see whether the room can survive his loss, but no trade comes risk-free.
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