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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 18, 2015 11:07:59 GMT -5
If I recall correctly, when Gainey lost Hainsey on waivers, it was Cote that was called up to fill the roster spot. It's been a while but I think I was ticked because I thought they could have brought Cote up without losing him on waivers. Gainey took an unnecessary chance & lost Hainsey for nothing. I remember it being a big deal ... woke up the league to cost of re-entry waivers ... Cheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 18, 2015 11:54:58 GMT -5
Now, you expect first rounders to have greater and quicker success; however, I don't this is as bad a "make and break" for Tinordi as some may suggest ... Berg and his management crew are a pretty hockey savvy bunch, so I am sure they have an idea on how they see this playing out. It is definitely a big camp for a lot of defensemen though. I think it's a huge camp for Tinordi ... I was starting to get the impression a little while ago that he wasn't in the club's long-term plans ... he just can't stick it out with the big club ... as someone already pointed out, it's an interesting scenario with Tinner ... if he doesn't make the club he'll have to clear waivers and I suspect he won't clear ... who won't want to take a chance on a young, inexpensive, physical d-man (not my question; TSN690 refers) ... I'm really, really hoping he has a strong camp ... I'd love to see him as a regular in Montreal, but he'll have to earn it ... Cheers.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 24, 2015 8:18:43 GMT -5
I don't see how this ends well for Jarred, at least not in Montreal. You can say he hasn't seized his chance to crack the lineup but I can't recall a 1st round draft pick with his profile and upside who has been given less of an opportunity to play than Tinordi. I think he's been poorly managed and now we are in this corner where he has outgrown the AHL, but we can only call him up once or lose him on waivers.
And it's not like he hasn't shown he can play in his limited time. I actually think he has the kind of potential of a Zdeno Chara (who was a late bloomer) or Tyler Myers - big frame, physical, but with some skating and puck-handling ability. The thing with Tinordi is he has a lot of ability, but needs to figure out what he does well and not try too much. He simply HAS to play in the NHL, but the Habs have done a great job of not developing him and destroying his trade value at the same time.
Therrien hates dmen who make mistakes, but Tinordi and Beaulieu need to be assured that the first mistake won't have them plastered to the bench. Even Beaulieu has been underutilized despite clearly being the 4th best dman on the team (3rd best before the Petry deal). Bergevin (as a former dman) must know this and needs to step in to make their development a priority this year. The Emelin contract was a mistake, why the heck did he get a NTC, but that doesn't mean he has to play.
I just don't trust Therrien with young players.
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 24, 2015 8:39:49 GMT -5
10th overall: Dylan McIlrath, 3 NHL games (Rangers) 13th overall: Brandon Gormley, 32 NHL games (Phoenix) 15th overall: Derek Forbort, 0 NHL games (LA) 22nd overall: Jarred Tinordi, 43 NHL games (Montreal) 23rd overall: Mark Pysyk, 70 NHL games (Buffalo) Just sayin'. If Tinordi plays well in training camp I think he will stick with the club. He may only be the 8th defenseman, but if he keeps working hard, keeps his mouth shut, and acts like a professional they will make room for him. It's not like Bergevin is afraid of making moves during the season after all. Or in training camp for that matter, as Peter Budaj can attest to. We also have to consider injuries. People keep saying we were so healthy last year, and it's true, and that we can't possibly hope to duplicate that again next year, and that too is true. So if somebody gets hurt in training camp then Tinordi moves up the depth chart, possibly into the 6th spot if he outplays Greg Pateryn. Which, when you think about it, is really not that high a mountain to climb. As much as I like Pateryn there is little doubt that Tinordi has the skills to easily beat him out of a roster spot, should he put it all together. So while things look bleak on paper for Tinordi I really don't think they are. He just needs to come to camp ready, and fend off Barberio for that 8th spot. Then injuries and trades will take care of the rest. Markov - Subban Beaulieu - Petry Emelin - Gilbert Tinordi - Pateryn I really like this, actually.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jul 24, 2015 10:33:24 GMT -5
I agree he'll make the team, or get traded, and from there who knows?
Someone needs to pull a Tonya Harding on Alexei Emelin. Oops, did I say that out loud?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 24, 2015 14:25:38 GMT -5
Markov - Subban Beaulieu - Petry Emelin - Gilbert Tinordi - Pateryn I really like this, actually. I'd have Pateryn ahead of both Emelin and Gilbert ... I thought he was one of our steadiest d-men in the playoffs last year (only behind Petry and Subban)... I honestly believe he's a second-pairing d-man if he were to play anywhere outside of Montreal ... that's just me, though ... Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 24, 2015 15:02:31 GMT -5
I'm thinking along the same lines as you, Dis. I really liked Pateryn's patience with the puck, his strength in pinning players and winning board battles and his first pass out of the zone. I'd have him closer to second pairing than the aforementioned Emelin and Gilbert. I think Gilbert is underrated by us, because we tend to pick out his bad games and forget the reasonable number of good games that he played. Nonetheless, I like Pateryn's game a lot.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 24, 2015 15:28:01 GMT -5
10th overall: Dylan McIlrath, 3 NHL games (Rangers) 13th overall: Brandon Gormley, 32 NHL games (Phoenix) 15th overall: Derek Forbort, 0 NHL games (LA) 22nd overall: Jarred Tinordi, 43 NHL games (Montreal) 23rd overall: Mark Pysyk, 70 NHL games (Buffalo) Just sayin'. Just because I'm feeling contrary, for the examples shown above, one can also bring up 2009 9th overall Jared Cowan 11th overall Ryan Ellis 12th overall Calvin DeHaan 14th overall Dimitri Kulikov 16th overall Nick Leddy. I'd pick Leddy over all the guys ahead of him on that list. Now, they're not as marginal as the guys you've shown above, but nuggets can be found later. 2007 4th overall Thomas Hickey 5th Karl Alzner 10th Keaton Ellerby 12th Ryan McDonagh - boom 14 Kevin Shattenkirk 18 Ian Cole 23 Jonathan Blum 27 Brendan Smith 28 Nick Petrecki 30 Nick Ross 31, 33, 34, 35 and 41, a bunch of 'guys' 42 P.K. Subbanwww.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.htmlThat draft was a not so unusual example of some teams missing it really big while others (Habs especially) aced it. If I hadn't seen Tinordi dominate in 2010 at the WJC for a weak US squad and also play so well in the Memorial Cup run for London I wouldn't be questioning his development. The Knights lost in the finals to Shawinigan, but Tinordi was a beast for London. I can't help feeling his development has not been handled as well as it could since then. If the Hunters had benched Tinordi in his rookie season with the team, when he played poorly, would he have been the player he turned into the following year? I can't help seeing this video in my head. Gorges gives Tinordi an unexpected suicide pass in his skates behind the net, Tinordi loses it because its a crappy pass, it goes in front, Leafs (I think) score and that was more or less the end of his Habs season. Does Gorges get benched? Nope. Ok I wouldn't expect that, but why punish Tinordi for being thrown off a cliff by Gorges? That's when you start questioning the coaches decisions. I think that was in Jarred's rookie season with Montreal, but can't recall that detail. Anyway, I find the disparity between the final juniour year Tinordi when he owned his own zone, against all his contemporaries, and the uncertain kid today hard to rationalize. Is the fact he's up against men now, making that much of a difference? Could be. Maybe all he needs is to fill out a bit more and he turns back into that Tinordi.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 24, 2015 18:36:01 GMT -5
I agree he'll make the team, or get traded, and from there who knows? Someone needs to pull a Tonya Harding on Alexei Emelin. Oops, did I say that out loud? Where's Lucic when you need him ... I just don't like Tinordi's chances at making the team ... whether it's his performance or the club simply holding back ... I hope he has a strong camp/pre-season ... it would increase his trade value ... that's pretty pessimistic but if he doesn't have a good camp, he'll have to clear waivers and he'll never make to St John's ... come to think of it, neither would Emelin if it came down to it ... Cheers.
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Post by stoat on Jul 25, 2015 23:08:39 GMT -5
I would LOVE to find a way to trade Emelin and Gilbert and go with Tinordi and Pateryn as the 3rd pair. Best case is that Jarred forces the issue in camp, as Berg loves to say, which could make it happen. But even absent that it's the right thing to do for the organization. I think we are going to have one of the most talented top 4 group in the league, with Beaulieu and Petry on the 2nd unit. So why not use the 3rd pair for development? Tinordi and Pateryn are younger, cheaper, and better IMO than Emelin and Gilbert. I'm more impressed by Pateryn (a dark horse) than by Tinordi (a heralded prospect). I'm not yet sold on Tinordi. On the other hand, I'm not averse to trading Emelin and Gilbert (although I wouldn't expect much in return).
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