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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 31, 2015 16:50:04 GMT -5
Paul Byron made the most of his opportunity ... le Club won 6-2 without him ... or ...
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Oct 31, 2015 17:01:04 GMT -5
Byron's a short term solution on the second line. I'm not saying Semin is a long term solution, but I do believe he's the better fit.
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Post by Andrew on Oct 31, 2015 17:05:18 GMT -5
IMO they have to let the Semin experiment run its course, and give him a few more games. If it doesn't work out then part ways (demote to minors), and bring up one of the kids (Andrighetto, Hudon, or Carr) to fill that spot. What I don't want to see is any of our plethora of bottom 9 players occupying a top 6 spot in our lineup.
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Post by Tankdriver on Oct 31, 2015 17:12:28 GMT -5
IMO they have to let the Semin experiment run its course, and give him a few more games. If it doesn't work out then part ways (demote to minors), and bring up one of the kids (Andrighetto, Hudon, or Carr) to fill that spot. What I don't want to see is any of our plethora of bottom 9 players occupying a top 6 spot in our lineup. I get your view, except, I don't think the Eller line is in the top 6. I think what we consider the 2nd line is (Eller) is really the third line in Michel Therriens head.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 31, 2015 17:34:47 GMT -5
Until there's a conscious effort to help or allow Galchenyuk to develop into that top centre we need, I don't think we have a realistic chance at the Cup. Every SC winner has an elite centre. We don't and we're not about to trade for one. Either we develop the one chance we have, or we resign ourselves to playing second, third or fourth fiddle. It's that important.
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Post by drkcloud on Oct 31, 2015 20:20:52 GMT -5
He should but MT is not going to sit Byron after that game. Maybe Eller is the new man in the doghouse after his short benching in Calgary
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 31, 2015 20:27:39 GMT -5
I think he should, but I'm looking forward to seeing how Semin reacts to this ... will it light a fire under his butt, or will he sink a bit ... I don't know if he warranted a benching in the first place, but that's another topic ... I think he should dress ...
Cheers.
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Post by CentreHice on Oct 31, 2015 20:29:19 GMT -5
Until there's a conscious effort to help or allow Galchenyuk to develop into that top centre we need, I don't think we have a realistic chance at the Cup. Every SC winner has an elite centre. We don't and we're not about to trade for one. Either we develop the one chance we have, or we resign ourselves to playing second, third or fourth fiddle. It's that important. Bingo. Pleks isn't leading us to the Grail as a #1 centre. To that end...why not drop Pleks to the second line sooner rather than later...and put Galchy with Max and Gallagher? Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher Eller - Pleks - Semin I really like our Bottom 6 the way it is.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 31, 2015 20:50:18 GMT -5
I really like our Bottom 6 the way it is. If I'm Therrien, I'm not touching the line combinations with/without Semin ... right now the bottom lines are creating the offense and it seems to be effective ... go with what works ... IMO, Desharnais has played his best hockey this year on the 3rd line ... Cheers.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 1, 2015 0:48:56 GMT -5
So if Semin dresses who sits? It can't be Byron after the game he played. That would be foolish; telling all the players that even if you perform well you sit for others who have not merited a spot. Seems some are suggesting Eller. that would be unfair to him. I don't think Eller is playing poorly - he is playing a new position with a centre (Chucky) who is still learning the centre position.
I agree with those who say don't touch the bottom 6. So Semin sits as the others on the top 6 are playing fine. I do like CH's idea of changing Chucky with Pleks!
Ultimately it is a non-issue as I don't see MT tinkering with the lineup after a win. Sorry Semin. You had your chance and you let it go. Now you wait until someone else falters. That's the way Scotty would call it.
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Post by HABSINFL on Nov 1, 2015 8:29:31 GMT -5
That is bull crap, he should never been sat down in the first place, Meathead is an idiot.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 1, 2015 10:25:12 GMT -5
So if Semin dresses who sits? It can't be Byron after the game he played. That would be foolish; telling all the players that even if you perform well you sit for others who have not merited a spot. Seems some are suggesting Eller. that would be unfair to him. I don't think Eller is playing poorly - he is playing a new position with a centre (Chucky) who is still learning the centre position. That's a good point. By sitting Semin, the Bottom 6 hasn't suffered any ill effects. Byron has been good….and has performed well on the PK, to boot. But the 2nd line has not improved with Flynn….and he can't be faulted for being out of his element. What's the best possible team you can ice…..especially against the tough Jets? I'm betting MT leaves it as it was vs. Calgary. If the 2nd line continues to bumble around tonight….then Semin HAS to come back in….and it'll be between Flynn and Byron who sits. It's an okay problem to have, Bottom 6-wise….but it doesn't solve 2nd line woes. Perhaps MB dangles Tinordi as trade bait sooner than later….
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 1, 2015 12:25:10 GMT -5
Naaa ... it's just another opinion, dude ... I didn't know why he was benched when I first heard it ... would like to see Semin respond to that in a good way, though ... Cheers.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 1, 2015 12:40:38 GMT -5
MT knew what he was getting in Semin. I am assuming that Semin knew what he was getting with MT as well. Although MT does a number of things well, developing trust in young players and enigmatic guys is not at the top of the list. I think getting Semin playing is good for both Semin and Chucky, but I doubt it happens until someone is hurt.
Wonder how much fun Pateryn and Tinordi are having while Gilbert struggles at times out there?
I was hoping for a bit more of a rotational lineup with the three spare players. I still am.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 1, 2015 12:56:44 GMT -5
MT knew what he was getting in Semin. I am assuming that Semin knew what he was getting with MT as well. Although MT does a number of things well, developing trust in young players and enigmatic guys is not at the top of the list. I think getting Semin playing is good for both Semin and Chucky, but I doubt it happens until someone is hurt. Wonder how much fun Pateryn and Tinordi are having while Gilbert struggles at times out there? I was hoping for a bit more of a rotational lineup with the three spare players. I still am. I too was hoping for more rotation. But with the winning streak MT stood pat. And then made the one Byron change after the loss. Never quite understood the rational that if you're winning keep the lineup the same. If someone is not playing well they should be changed especially when there are eager capable players to replace the laggard. Who cares about the final score. Particularly when you have a goalie like Carey; players can play awful and we still win. But MT is just a traditional coach who buys into all the "old rules" of coaching. If the ultimate goal is to win the cup, has it really helped the team to have Pateryn and Tinordi sitting for almost a month now? MT is as near sighted as always.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 1, 2015 12:58:38 GMT -5
With Carey out, it begs the question, how's Semin glove hand?
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Post by HABSINFL on Nov 1, 2015 17:00:41 GMT -5
MT knew what he was getting in Semin. I am assuming that Semin knew what he was getting with MT as well. Although MT does a number of things well, developing trust in young players and enigmatic guys is not at the top of the list. I think getting Semin playing is good for both Semin and Chucky, but I doubt it happens until someone is hurt. Wonder how much fun Pateryn and Tinordi are having while Gilbert struggles at times out there? I was hoping for a bit more of a rotational lineup with the three spare players. I still am. I too was hoping for more rotation. But with the winning streak MT stood pat. And then made the one Byron change after the loss. Never quite understood the rational that if you're winning keep the lineup the same. If someone is not playing well they should be changed especially when there are eager capable players to replace the laggard. Who cares about the final score. Particularly when you have a goalie like Carey; players can play awful and we still win. But MT is just a traditional coach who buys into all the "old rules" of coaching. If the ultimate goal is to win the cup, has it really helped the team to have Pateryn and Tinordi sitting for almost a month now? MT is as near sighted as always. It makes too much sense to have both young defensemen playing, for Meathead to comprehend or apply any logic to the situation.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 2, 2015 13:23:18 GMT -5
Why not put Semin on the fourth line, with Mitchell and Byron? Rotate him with Flynn, who I thought had a mediocre game? Heck, the way that fourth line is going he might get more points from there than anywhere else!
I think we have to stop thinking of Alexander Semin as Alexander Semin, and instead start thinking of him as Alexander Smith. Were it not for his name and history I don't think anybody would think twice about his production and/or his ice-time. His production, salary, contract term, and recent history put him in roughly the same category as Byron, Flynn, Mitchell and Smith-Pelly. He had six goals last year; Mitchell and Byron also had six, Flynn and DSP had five. Their contracts are all rather similar, in the $850,000 to $1.2 million range. That's the category of player he is in now. Sure, it would have been nice for him to return to a 30 goal form (and he still might), but it's not like he's eating up huge chunks of the cap or anything.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 2, 2015 14:18:13 GMT -5
That would make a lot of sense, BC, except that Semin no longer has the speed to keep up with guys like Byron and Mitchell. The other benefit Flynn has is that he's pretty good on faceoffs, so if Mitchell is waved out, Flynn can step in and be as good (better sometimes). Mostly, and I accept that Semin is not bad defensively, it's simply about speed and the way the league is going today. Will that 4th line be able to play as it is if a slower player is at RW.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 2, 2015 14:39:54 GMT -5
That would make a lot of sense, BC, except that Semin no longer has the speed to keep up with guys like Byron and Mitchell. The other benefit Flynn has is that he's pretty good on faceoffs, so if Mitchell is waved out, Flynn can step in and be as good (better sometimes). Mostly, and I accept that Semin is not bad defensively, it's simply about speed and the way the league is going today. Will that 4th line be able to play as it is if a slower player is at RW. And that's a very fair and poignant point. But if Semin can't keep up with Mitchell and Byron, then I don't think he can keep up with Eller and Galchenyuk either. Which means he's left with Desharnais and Fleischman as possible linemates (hmmm...) but that line is going so well it probably shouldn't be touched. Which brings us back to his position as a fourth liner/healthy scratch. Which, given his age, salary, contract and production is exactly where he should be! (BadCompany for the circular logic win!)
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 3, 2015 1:25:18 GMT -5
Why not put Semin on the fourth line, with Mitchell and Byron? Rotate him with Flynn, who I thought had a mediocre game? Heck, the way that fourth line is going he might get more points from there than anywhere else! I think we have to stop thinking of Alexander Semin as Alexander Semin, and instead start thinking of him as Alexander Smith. Were it not for his name and history I don't think anybody would think twice about his production and/or his ice-time. His production, salary, contract term, and recent history put him in roughly the same category as Byron, Flynn, Mitchell and Smith-Pelly. He had six goals last year; Mitchell and Byron also had six, Flynn and DSP had five. Their contracts are all rather similar, in the $850,000 to $1.2 million range. That's the category of player he is in now. Sure, it would have been nice for him to return to a 30 goal form (and he still might), but it's not like he's eating up huge chunks of the cap or anything. Sorry BC, I have to disagree as well. I've been most unimpressed with this flake. So much so, I believe I was the lone dissenter on this poll, voting that he should not be dressed against the Jets. Seems like MT (and me ) got it right for a change. Problem with your argument is that while Semin may be paid like a 4th liner he is not a 4th liner. He has minimal effort which I think is mandatory for a 4th liner and, as has been stated, he does not have the speed of our 4th liners which has been huge for us so far this season. I do agree that we should now be looking at him as A. Smith which begs the question, why are we having a poll on whether a possible 4th liner, who has limited hustle or desire, should get into the line up when we are 9-2 and he has contributed little to any team he has played for in almost 2 years now. My view is the onus is on Mr. Smith to earn a spot when an opportunity arises for him. MT should not be giving him any special consideration because of how he once played.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 3, 2015 1:48:03 GMT -5
That would make a lot of sense, BC, except that Semin no longer has the speed to keep up with guys like Byron and Mitchell. The other benefit Flynn has is that he's pretty good on faceoffs, so if Mitchell is waved out, Flynn can step in and be as good (better sometimes). Mostly, and I accept that Semin is not bad defensively, it's simply about speed and the way the league is going today. Will that 4th line be able to play as it is if a slower player is at RW. And that's a very fair and poignant point. But if Semin can't keep up with Mitchell and Byron, then I don't think he can keep up with Eller and Galchenyuk either. Which means he's left with Desharnais and Fleischman as possible linemates (hmmm...) but that line is going so well it probably shouldn't be touched. Which brings us back to his position as a fourth liner/healthy scratch. Which, given his age, salary, contract and production is exactly where he should be! (BadCompany for the circular logic win!) Maybe we could just take him out and shoot him. I thought Semin could make that line work and there was some chemistry between he and Galchy, just not much production. I still think Therrien's greatest challenge this year is not winning the President's trophy, but preparing Galchenyuk for the playoffs. If he isn't a special player by then, say a 70 point season, the SC will remain a wish. MT may like Chucky to be that player, but I haven't seen much progress in that direction. A good chunk of that falls on Alex's shoulders. He doesn't need much from the coaches to get there, but I hope he's getting the support he needs to improve his confidence and help him to that next level.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 3, 2015 8:40:23 GMT -5
I do agree that we should now be looking at him as A. Smith which begs the question, why are we having a poll on whether a possible 4th liner, who has limited hustle or desire, should get into the line up when we are 9-2 and he has contributed little to any team he has played for in almost 2 years now. My view is the onus is on Mr. Smith to earn a spot when an opportunity arises for him. MT should not be giving him any special consideration because of how he once played. I can agree with that!
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2015 8:45:56 GMT -5
Smith which begs the question, why are we having a poll on whether a possible 4th liner, who has limited hustle or desire, should get into the line up when we are 9-2 and he has contributed little to any team he has played for in almost 2 years now. Was he considered a 4th-liner when we started the poll? ... Cheers.
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Post by Skilly on Nov 3, 2015 9:43:59 GMT -5
I do agree that we should now be looking at him as A. Smith which begs the question, why are we having a poll on whether a possible 4th liner, who has limited hustle or desire, should get into the line up when we are 9-2 and he has contributed little to any team he has played for in almost 2 years now. My view is the onus is on Mr. Smith to earn a spot when an opportunity arises for him. MT should not be giving him any special consideration because of how he once played. My view is what did he do that was so egregious that he had to be taken out of the lineup of a team that was 9-1 ?
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 3, 2015 10:11:04 GMT -5
I do agree that we should now be looking at him as A. Smith which begs the question, why are we having a poll on whether a possible 4th liner, who has limited hustle or desire, should get into the line up when we are 9-2 and he has contributed little to any team he has played for in almost 2 years now. My view is the onus is on Mr. Smith to earn a spot when an opportunity arises for him. MT should not be giving him any special consideration because of how he once played. My view is what did he do that was so egregious that he had to be taken out of the lineup of a team that was 9-1 ? While the coaching staff--behind the bench and in the rafters--can no doubt dissect his play better than I can……I am inclined to agree. The longer he sits, the greater the chance he just may tune out completely. Unless, for some reason, he needs the money….and would like to prove himself for next year, too. I wonder what his attitude is like in practice…. EDIT: Just heard that Semin will be sitting again tonight vs. Ottawa. No surprise, I suppose.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 3, 2015 11:30:29 GMT -5
I do agree that we should now be looking at him as A. Smith which begs the question, why are we having a poll on whether a possible 4th liner, who has limited hustle or desire, should get into the line up when we are 9-2 and he has contributed little to any team he has played for in almost 2 years now. My view is the onus is on Mr. Smith to earn a spot when an opportunity arises for him. MT should not be giving him any special consideration because of how he once played. My view is what did he do that was so egregious that he had to be taken out of the lineup of a team that was 9-1 ? He was the weakest forward and had a number of ghastly turnovers which led to goals. In MT's book that is time to sit especially when there are capable forwards to fill the spot such as Byron who has more than filled the spot. I suspect there was also a thought that Semin was holding back the Chucky Eller line. We'll see but it seems he may not have been the problem.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 3, 2015 11:32:10 GMT -5
Smith which begs the question, why are we having a poll on whether a possible 4th liner, who has limited hustle or desire, should get into the line up when we are 9-2 and he has contributed little to any team he has played for in almost 2 years now. Was he considered a 4th-liner when we started the poll? ... Cheers. No. He wasn;t even in the line up. If we're talking fourth line, i'd rather Byron and even bournival than Mr. Smith.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 3, 2015 12:25:52 GMT -5
Was he considered a 4th-liner when we started the poll? ... Cheers. No. He wasn;t even in the line up. If we're talking fourth line, i'd rather Byron and even bournival than Mr. Smith. Nice to see some haven't forgotten Michael Bournival ... I've tried looking him up and there's no statistics for him for this year ... is he injured? ... I guess in hindsight we could have gone with some youth, but I understand the low-risk signing by Bergevin ... Semin will be back in the lineup eventually ... maybe during an injury or if the team goes on a slump ... we'll see, I guess ... Cheers.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 3, 2015 12:39:55 GMT -5
No. He wasn;t even in the line up. If we're talking fourth line, i'd rather Byron and even bournival than Mr. Smith. Nice to see some haven't forgotten Michael Bournival ... I've tried looking him up and there's no statistics for him for this year ... is he injured? ... I guess in hindsight we could have gone with some youth, but I understand the low-risk signing by Bergevin ... Semin will be back in the lineup eventually ... maybe during an injury or if the team goes on a slump ... we'll see, I guess ... Cheers. Post-concussion symptoms. Has not played yet anywhere, but has been skating lately. He has to be cleared by doctors before he can be assigned to St. John's (since the Habs have a full roster).
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