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Post by CentreHice on Nov 9, 2015 19:36:27 GMT -5
That's a great trigger, man ... I was watching it in my parent's basement because I didn't want anyone around me if they lost ... Cherry used to say often that the goal Lafleur scored that sent the game into OT was the goal that cost him his job ... I remember reading that he was let go for something else ... there was a bit of a power struggle there, IIRC ... Cheers. Or better yet, the too-many-men call that led to it! Over the years, Cherry has related 5 or 6 bogus excuses about that game. See the Cherry-Orr thread for a complete breakdown...ha! I think the Sinden vs. Cherry story is in there, too... I'm on the doomsday team with Habsorbed. He would have the best care already in MTL along with MRIs etc. They must know what's wrong. Is the 2nd opinion about treatment - ie: surgery or rest? Therrien should be answering that question tomorrow....so they said on the radio today.
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Post by stoat on Nov 10, 2015 0:12:37 GMT -5
I've always had the view that a good team can win a lot of games over the course of a season with league-average goaltending. Particularly a team that can score goals, like we are this year. In the past, we needed Carey Price to cover up for the fact that we couldn't score and were routinely outshot. But not anymore! Price led the league last year in save percentage at 0.933. The median for the league was around 0.918/0.920. So far Condon is playing at a 0.940 clip, which isn't sustainable, but if he can play at close to 0.920 AND we can score somewhere around 3 goals per game.... honestly, we won't miss Price nearly as much as would have in years when we relied on him more heavily. That's the good news. The bad news is that come playoff time you need a guy who can carry a team and inspire confidence. Price is that guy, he's just so calm and relaxed and it rubs off on the whole team. I'm not sure we can win a Cup with Mike Condon between the pipes. But in the short run I think we'll be fine as long as we can keep scoring. Fingers crossed on Carey. The bad(der) news is that if Price is out for a lngth of time Condon won't be able to play every game and Therrien will be compelled to use Tokarski.
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 10, 2015 1:31:26 GMT -5
I've always had the view that a good team can win a lot of games over the course of a season with league-average goaltending. Particularly a team that can score goals, like we are this year. In the past, we needed Carey Price to cover up for the fact that we couldn't score and were routinely outshot. But not anymore! Price led the league last year in save percentage at 0.933. The median for the league was around 0.918/0.920. So far Condon is playing at a 0.940 clip, which isn't sustainable, but if he can play at close to 0.920 AND we can score somewhere around 3 goals per game.... honestly, we won't miss Price nearly as much as would have in years when we relied on him more heavily. That's the good news. The bad news is that come playoff time you need a guy who can carry a team and inspire confidence. Price is that guy, he's just so calm and relaxed and it rubs off on the whole team. I'm not sure we can win a Cup with Mike Condon between the pipes. But in the short run I think we'll be fine as long as we can keep scoring. Fingers crossed on Carey. The bad(der) news is that if Price is out for a lngth of time Condon won't be able to play every game and Therrien will be compelled to use Tokarski. Why is that bad(der) news? I think Toker will perform admirably. He may even increase his trade value. I'm thinking the Leafs would love to have Condon or Toker. If only they had something we could use
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Post by seventeen on Nov 10, 2015 2:27:28 GMT -5
The bad(der) news is that if Price is out for a lngth of time Condon won't be able to play every game and Therrien will be compelled to use Tokarski. Why is that bad(der) news? I think Toker will perform admirably. He may even increase his trade value. I'm thinking the Leafs would love to have Condon or Toker. If only they had something we could use JVR.
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Post by franko on Nov 10, 2015 6:58:50 GMT -5
Worth another look! Love the coolness of Savard on Middleton (who always scared the crap out of me)….to Houle…nice touch pass to Tremblay…..the Habs' transition was second-to-none in that era! AND…it was Brad Park who failed to cover #11! One of Gallivan's greatest crescendo calls! can't believe how much room there was on the ice to skate . . . the lack of helmets . . . the equipment size . . . the fact that you can actually see net![edit: better?]
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Post by seventeen on Nov 10, 2015 11:52:15 GMT -5
Never seen that before. How'd you ceedit CH's quote to me, Franko?
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Post by franko on Nov 10, 2015 11:53:33 GMT -5
Never seen that before. How'd you ceedit CH's quote to me, Franko? did I? oops. my lack of perfection, showing again. not enough for my wife to do it constantly, you have to join in too? reminds me of the answer to the question why I'll never be a bigamist: my ego couldn't take disappointing two women (or two mothers-in-law)
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 10, 2015 12:19:43 GMT -5
Why is that bad(der) news? I think Toker will perform admirably. He may even increase his trade value. I'm thinking the Leafs would love to have Condon or Toker. If only they had something we could use JVR. JVR......plus Kadri. I was in a store and one sweater wearing Laff fan was talking to another sweater wearing Laff....wondering when they will have a "winning" team. So I told them they should be Hab fans and enjoy hockey! On the other hand, I'm not sure the CH goes with a man wearing one of those African style saucer ear rings......
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 10, 2015 12:29:09 GMT -5
Never seen that before. How'd you ceedit CH's quote to me, Franko? did I? oops. my lack of perfection, showing again. not enough for my wife to do it constantly, you have to join in too? reminds me of the answer to the question why I'll never be a bigamist: my ego couldn't take disappointing two women (or two mothers-in-law) Now now, we are very accepting......we even let Seventeen in even though he's wearing his old bicycle wears streamers as ear rings......and BC's fish net stocking fetish.....and Dis's secret fetish for beer toting yodeling models....
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 10, 2015 12:31:05 GMT -5
Never seen that before. How'd you ceedit CH's quote to me, Franko? NO WAY! CH is smart, articulated, well read, interesting, engaging......
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 10, 2015 12:37:10 GMT -5
did I? oops. my lack of perfection, showing again. not enough for my wife to do it constantly, you have to join in too? reminds me of the answer to the question why I'll never be a bigamist: my ego couldn't take disappointing two women (or two mothers-in-law) Now now, we are very accepting......we even let Seventeen in even though he's wearing his old bicycle wears streamers as ear rings......and BC's fish net stocking fetish.....and Dis's secret fetish for beer toting yodeling models.... Busted again ... frig ...
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 10, 2015 12:43:41 GMT -5
Now now, we are very accepting......we even let Seventeen in even though he's wearing his old bicycle wears streamers as ear rings......and BC's fish net stocking fetish.....and Dis's secret fetish for beer toting yodeling models.... Busted again ... frig ... Don't worry Dis, I'm not telling ANYBODY about your extra tight Lederhosen collection....as long as you don't talk about my foustanelles fetish in public.
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Post by blny on Nov 10, 2015 13:16:19 GMT -5
Per Stubbs ...
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 10, 2015 13:58:28 GMT -5
The Habs main website, in quoting MT, indicates something different that what Stubbs indicates (it is only one word, but it makes a BIG difference). On the Habs page, they say that Price had NOT responded well to treatment, so that is why the second opinion was ordered. It also indicates that the second opinion confirmed the earlier diagnosis and they have altered Price's treatment. Here is the link. canadiens.nhl.com/club/blog.htm?id=261
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Post by seventeen on Nov 10, 2015 15:19:18 GMT -5
I read some conflicting tweets too, NWT. The fact that Price would seek a second opinion definitely suggests he wasn't happy with the progress and was in fact, questioning the initial diagnosis. It appears there was consensus on the diagnosis.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 10, 2015 15:52:37 GMT -5
In that Canadiens.com article, it reminds us that Price suffered a lower body injury October 29 in Edmonton. They forgot to add that the rest of the team suffered a collective upper body injury after the first period...
At least the NY specialist made the same diagnosis....and no doubt gave Price and the trainers an alternative/better treatment regimen.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 10, 2015 17:27:21 GMT -5
I thought that price has a long term nagging injury? Also flared up last year?
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 10, 2015 17:34:55 GMT -5
In that Canadiens.com article, it reminds us that Price suffered a lower body injury October 29 in Edmonton. They forgot to add that the rest of the team suffered a collective upper body injury after the first period... At least the NY specialist made the same diagnosis....and no doubt gave Price and the trainers an alternative/better treatment regimen. Stinkers are allowed on occasion......and that stunk after the first. Not too worried. Condon quickness is amazing and every few wins, his value rises. If he takes us to Xmas with this level of play, he's going to be worth a young second liner or vet star rental.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 10, 2015 18:11:33 GMT -5
No question....just a little joke....very little.....
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 11, 2015 2:45:42 GMT -5
Always worth another look. Never figured out the Lemaire corn-hole job in the celebration. Watching it in today's era one would think that both lines would have changed after the whistle. Always good to see Middlebury beat like a rented mule by Mario! Lemaire corn-hole! Hilarious! That wasn't Milbury, though….it was #29 Al Sims….the same guy who kicked the puck to Lafleur who then set up Lemaire for the Cup winner, Game 4 OT, 1977. If you want to see rented mule "Middlebury"….this one comes to mind…1978 Finals. The Bruins figured prominently in the last 3 of the 4-Cup run. Thanks for correcting me and providing a Milbury hi-lite. The guy couldn't play, couldn't manage, and can't analyze. Does Al Sims get invited to any Bruins alumni games?
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 11, 2015 2:56:03 GMT -5
In that Canadiens.com article, it reminds us that Price suffered a lower body injury October 29 in Edmonton. They forgot to add that the rest of the team suffered a collective upper body injury after the first period... At least the NY specialist made the same diagnosis....and no doubt gave Price and the trainers an alternative/better treatment regimen. Stinkers are allowed on occasion......and that stunk after the first. Not too worried. Condon quickness is amazing and every few wins, his value rises. If he takes us to Xmas with this level of play, he's going to be worth a young second liner or vet star rental. I see a lot of similarities between Condon and Talbot. They're both late bloomers who took over and played well when an elite goalie got injured. Talbot played well last year in Lunquist's absence and garnered a second, a third, and a late draft choice from Edm. That's certainly a pick up from what we thought Condon was worth at the beginning on the season. It may equate to that top 6 you're talking about which is what we need for the Cup run. The other plus to all this is that it lessens Carey's games played during the season; something MT has been unable to achieve due to his near sightedness.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 11, 2015 10:31:25 GMT -5
I'm not quite ready to anoint Condon with anything just yet. Yes, he's looked good, but I've seen some holes in his game. For example, pucks do trickle through him on occasion, and perhaps more concerning he does seem to lose rebounds sometimes. Not like Tokarski mind you, who flopped around and ended up turning his back on the puck (!!) on more than a few occasions, but enough for me to notice that Condon doesn't always seem to know where the puck is. Right now his size, positioning, and defense in front of him cover that up, but I think a real crease-crashing team could cause him problems.
Having said that, even if he is the next Talbot I wouldn't be trading him for anything less than a grand-slam homerun. I know that sounds funny, considering he's "just" the backup, but I think this is the year we go for it. And as such we need a quality backup. Not because I think he can win 16 games in the playoffs if Price is hurt on the last day of the regular season, but because I think you need a backup that can win you one or two games in the playoffs, in emergency situations. For example, if Price comes down with the flu, or is on concussion protocol watch for a week or something. You need a guy that can step in and get you a win in say Game 3, because winning Game 3 could allow you to make it to Game 7 where Price can win it for you.
I don't think Tokarski is that guy, so we'd have to go out and get one if we traded Condon. But if Condon IS that guy, might as well keep him, right?
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Post by franko on Nov 11, 2015 12:12:56 GMT -5
I'm not quite ready to anoint Condon with anything just yet. Yes, he's looked good, but I've seen some holes in his game. For example, pucks do trickle through him on occasion, and perhaps more concerning he does seem to lose rebounds sometimes. Not like Tokarski mind you, who flopped around and ended up turning his back on the puck (!!) on more than a few occasions, but enough for me to notice that Condon doesn't always seem to know where the puck is. Right now his size, positioning, and defense in front of him cover that up, but I think a real crease-crashing team could cause him problems. Having said that, even if he is the next Talbot I wouldn't be trading him for anything less than a grand-slam homerun. I know that sounds funny, considering he's "just" the backup, but I think this is the year we go for it. And as such we need a quality backup. Not because I think he can win 16 games in the playoffs if Price is hurt on the last day of the regular season, but because I think you need a backup that can win you one or two games in the playoffs, in emergency situations. For example, if Price comes down with the flu, or is on concussion protocol watch for a week or something. You need a guy that can step in and get you a win in say Game 3, because winning Game 3 could allow you to make it to Game 7 where Price can win it for you. so you're anointing him a decent back-up? [/quote] always amazes me that a team finds a capable (fill-in-the-blank) and says "now we have someone to trade for (again, fill-in-the-blank). then, of course, there is another hole to fill!
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 11, 2015 13:15:45 GMT -5
I'm not quite ready to anoint Condon with anything just yet. Yes, he's looked good, but I've seen some holes in his game. For example, pucks do trickle through him on occasion, and perhaps more concerning he does seem to lose rebounds sometimes. Not like Tokarski mind you, who flopped around and ended up turning his back on the puck (!!) on more than a few occasions, but enough for me to notice that Condon doesn't always seem to know where the puck is. Right now his size, positioning, and defense in front of him cover that up, but I think a real crease-crashing team could cause him problems. Having said that, even if he is the next Talbot I wouldn't be trading him for anything less than a grand-slam homerun. I know that sounds funny, considering he's "just" the backup, but I think this is the year we go for it. And as such we need a quality backup. Not because I think he can win 16 games in the playoffs if Price is hurt on the last day of the regular season, but because I think you need a backup that can win you one or two games in the playoffs, in emergency situations. For example, if Price comes down with the flu, or is on concussion protocol watch for a week or something. You need a guy that can step in and get you a win in say Game 3, because winning Game 3 could allow you to make it to Game 7 where Price can win it for you. I don't think Tokarski is that guy, so we'd have to go out and get one if we traded Condon. But if Condon IS that guy, might as well keep him, right? Mike Condon has played well but the guys have also played very well in front of him ... if Carey Price is out for any length of time this will be his opportunity to showcase himself and I think he's done very well doing that to this point ... there's no guarantee that an ECAC-level goaltender can handle the long, heavy workload and I'm kind of hoping le club doesn't have to rely on him for that ... I'd like Price back and go into the playoffs with a healthy Condon ... honestly, I don't think we'd have to include him in a trade, not this year, anyway ... draft day may be a different story if there's a low-placed team in need of a goaltender ... you know, like the Leafs ... Cheers.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Nov 11, 2015 13:39:19 GMT -5
We just need Condon to be reasonably consistent. The fact of the matter is that goaltending is very good across the league and while it's great to have a guy like Price when it counts in the playoffs, what you really need to get there is solid, league-average performance. I don't care if we win games 3-1 or 3-2 as long as we win. The avoided goals that Price gives you are great if you are only scoring 2 goals a game (in which case you aren't a very good team to begin with), but with the Habs scoring at better than 3 goals per game, we just need Condom, I mean Condon, to be decent.
Assume 30 shots allowed: 0.933 SVP = 2.01 goals 0.920 SVP = 2.40 goals 0.915 SVP = 2.55 goals 0.910 SVP = 2.70 goals 0.900 SVP = 3.00 goals
Assume 25 shots allowed: 0.933 SVP = 1.68 goals 0.920 SVP = 2.00 goals 0.915 SVP = 2.13 goals 0.910 SVP = 2.25 goals 0.900 SVP = 2.50 goals
It's a bit simplistic, but you get the point. League-average SVP the past 3 regular seasons has been around 0.920 among qualified goaltenders. Price led the league last year at 0.933, but even average is pretty darn good. Success is ultimately about scoring. If Condon can give somewhere in the 0.915-0.920 range, depending on how many shots we give up, we should be fine AS LONG AS WE KEEP SCORING. If we regress to our low-scoring ways, hoping to win 2-1 games every night, then we have bigger problems than goaltending.
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