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Post by UberCranky on Nov 15, 2015 0:04:28 GMT -5
Only one comment....I deleted the tragedy.
Does this loss mean anything?
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Post by franko on Nov 15, 2015 0:25:03 GMT -5
Only one comment....I deleted the tragedy. Does this loss mean anything? it means that my predictions for November were off.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 15, 2015 0:36:28 GMT -5
I watched the first period after knowing what the final score was and wasn't sure what to make of it. We had some chances in the first, but not the domination that the shots on goal suggested. I didn't see us with any odd man rushes and usually when we attacked, Denver had everyone back. At best we were two on two. I was very disappointed in our two best players. Patches seems to have forgotten how to shoot high. If he one times that play at least a foot off the ground, it's in, even if he did shoot it back toward Berra rather than hitting the corner. It's not easy to connect exactly where you want the puck to go on a one-timer, but you can usually elevate it. He didn't do that. Then there's PK, who looked like his mind was somewhere else. After that play where he and Markov played Quintal and Malakhov (different dimensions of communication), I would have done something. Sent him to the dressing room under the pretense he had a skate problem and sat him for 5 minutes or so. He needed a wake-up call. Condon was ok until the 3rd goal. That was a bad one after making some good saves. How can we make a loser like Grigorenko look good? We did.
Anyway. Bad game. Good goaltending might have helped keep the score down in the first, but I don't think we win that game even with Carey in goal. The guys didn't look dangerous at all if the first period was any indication of the rest of the game. Are we falling back into that rut where we can't score? Were we better in the 2nd?
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 15, 2015 3:34:33 GMT -5
The bloom is off the rose! After our amazing start the Rags are now ahead of us. It may be that it was not Condon's fault but that's 2 games in a row that he hasn't got it done and I think his confidence is now shot. I was worried how he was toyed with in the shoot out against the Pens and he looked AHL like tonight. Others did too, but Condon is now a big question mark, as is Price's return.
Max with one goal in his last 8 games and that was a freebee empty netter. Petry playing like an Oiler the last few games. Markov showing his old slow legs. I could go on but I think you get my point.
Then again maybe the universe is off kilter. Six Canadian teams played Saturday; five lost; two got creamed, and the only one that one was the Leafs. Definitely something wrong in the universe!
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 15, 2015 8:28:28 GMT -5
Doesn't mean much I think. A horrible performance by our goaltender and a brilliant performance by Berra... that's pretty much the story I feel.
Sub-story: Semin's return, over 15 minutes of icetime including more than 2 in PP, zero shots on net and a stupid penalty right when the HABS were getting back in the game. The guy has nothing left in the tank. Coulda, woulda, shoulda... failed experiment, let's turn the page and acquire some real top6 guy for Galchenyuk.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 15, 2015 9:06:51 GMT -5
Doesn't mean much I think. A horrible performance by our goaltender and a brilliant performance by Berra... that's pretty much the story I feel. Similar to Peter Budaj, Mike Condon is a great backup goaltender, but he's also an unproven starter ... I thought he was left on his own on a few of those goals ... PK Subban decided on a couple of occasions to do his superstar-in-rent-a-car routine, but he couldn't back it up ... he had some sloppy turnovers that hung Condon out to dry ... Is Semin on a one-way contract? ... just askin' ... Cheers.
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Post by franko on Nov 15, 2015 9:13:22 GMT -5
Is Semin on a one-way contract? ... just askin' ... does it matter? it's not my money, but it's only $1M
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Post by jkr on Nov 15, 2015 10:23:54 GMT -5
Doesn't mean much I think. A horrible performance by our goaltender and a brilliant performance by Berra... that's pretty much the story I feel. Sub-story: Semin's return, over 15 minutes of icetime including more than 2 in PP, zero shots on net and a stupid penalty right when the HABS were getting back in the game. The guy has nothing left in the tank. Coulda, woulda, shoulda... failed experiment, let's turn the page and acquire some real top6 guy for Galchenyuk. Couldn't agree more on Semin. I thought he would respond after the benching but he has continued to live down to my expectations. I didn't get the signing at the time & I will be puzzled if Therrien ever uses him again.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 15, 2015 10:31:13 GMT -5
I have a contract question.
Semin signed a 5-year extension with Carolina for $7 million/per….of which he played the first 2 years.
He had 3 years remaining ($21 million) when he was bought out, but it was reduced to $14 million over 6 years….i.e. $2.33 million til 2020-21.
Do all buyouts save the team a third of the original contracted salary?
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Post by Boston_Habs on Nov 15, 2015 12:09:54 GMT -5
Didn't see the game but the advanced stats on the Eller, Galchenyuk, and Semin line would suggest they were dominant on possession controlling almost 80% of even strength shot attempts. I don't know if Semin was just a passenger on that line or not but those are pretty awesome stats and just because Semin wasn't the guy with the shot attempts doesn't mean he wasn't effective in driving that line to the attacking zone.
Again I didn't see the game so the eye test may be different but I'll take those kinds of possession stats every night. And if Semin helps the cause them I'd still take him over Paul Byron.
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Post by Andrew on Nov 15, 2015 12:40:58 GMT -5
We need to bolster that second line somehow. Eller is a bit of a plug on offense, and semin too slow. Chucky can't do it on his own, and needs to be complemented with guys that can score. Short term I'd part ways with Semin (buy out or mutually terminate contract), and call up one of Aandrighetto, Carr, or Hudon. Give each a 5-10 game audition and see if any of them sticks. A bit longer term, I'd be looking to trade for an established scorer (Marleau, Iginla, Staal).
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Post by habsorbed on Nov 15, 2015 12:58:50 GMT -5
We need to bolster that second line somehow. Eller is a bit of a plug on offense, and semin too slow. Chucky can't do it on his own, and needs to be complemented with guys that can score. Short term I'd part ways with Semin (buy out or mutually terminate contract), and call up one of Aandrighetto, Carr, or Hudon. Give each a 5-10 game audition and see if any of them sticks. A bit longer term, I'd be looking to trade for an established scorer (Marleau, Iginla, Staal). Short term I'd put Chuck with Max and Gally. And Pleks with Eller and Semin. Maybe Semin and Chuck don't work together. Not a Semin fan but should at least use him with someone else before dumping him - or is that too much out of the box for MT. Seemed in preseason all I kept reading about was the magic (hype) of McD and Hall together as well as Crosby and Kesler. In the end neither combo was working and the coach made some changes which worked much better. Is MT up to that? Putting the GAG line back together might work as well. And so might Max, Pleks, and Semin. When you think about it, we had an amazing start to the season but most of that was not due to our top 2 lines but the play of our bottom 6. So let's move those top 6 around.
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Post by Andrew on Nov 15, 2015 13:16:25 GMT -5
We need to bolster that second line somehow. Eller is a bit of a plug on offense, and semin too slow. Chucky can't do it on his own, and needs to be complemented with guys that can score. Short term I'd part ways with Semin (buy out or mutually terminate contract), and call up one of Aandrighetto, Carr, or Hudon. Give each a 5-10 game audition and see if any of them sticks. A bit longer term, I'd be looking to trade for an established scorer (Marleau, Iginla, Staal). Short term I'd put Chuck with Max and Gally. And Pleks with Eller and Semin. Maybe Semin and Chuck don't work together. Not a Semin fan but should at least use him with someone else before dumping him - or is that too much out of the box for MT. Seemed in preseason all I kept reading about was the magic (hype) of McD and Hall together as well as Crosby and Kesler. In the end neither combo was working and the coach made some changes which worked much better. Is MT up to that? Putting the GAG line back together might work as well. And so might Max, Pleks, and Semin. When you think about it, we had an amazing start to the season but most of that was not due to our top 2 lines but the play of our bottom 6. So let's move those top 6 around. I like that idea also. It buys Semin a few more games to make his case for sticking with the club. If that doesn't work then it can't be argued that he didn't get a fair chance.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 15, 2015 13:49:00 GMT -5
Didn't see the game but the advanced stats on the Eller, Galchenyuk, and Semin line would suggest they were dominant on possession controlling almost 80% of even strength shot attempts. I don't know if Semin was just a passenger on that line or not but those are pretty awesome stats and just because Semin wasn't the guy with the shot attempts doesn't mean he wasn't effective in driving that line to the attacking zone. Again I didn't see the game so the eye test may be different but I'll take those kinds of possession stats every night. And if Semin helps the cause them I'd still take him over Paul Byron. That's a typical case where micro-stats are well... just that... stats... I remember a few years ago, Gomez was a corsi champion on our team, wasn't achieving anything, but what amazing micro-stats he had... The line was not horrible... They were simply inefective offensive wise (as they always are) ...3 shots on goal total for the line in a 40 shots Bonanza, and they had power play time... That's not good for a line who's supposed to be an offensive one. I would not call Semin a "passenger" but if you are not getting the shot from Semin you're not getting much from him. We need to bolster that second line somehow. Eller is a bit of a plug on offense, and semin too slow. Chucky can't do it on his own, and needs to be complemented with guys that can score. Short term I'd part ways with Semin (buy out or mutually terminate contract), and call up one of Aandrighetto, Carr, or Hudon. Give each a 5-10 game audition and see if any of them sticks. A bit longer term, I'd be looking to trade for an established scorer (Marleau, Iginla, Staal). Semin can be sent to the AHL where 900K out of his 1mil cap hit will be written off. for the rest I agree, let's try an offensive prospect there for a change and Eller... well... moving him off the bottom 6 solved an issue of having a no offense generated from there... but creates a problem of having not enough offense from the top 6... he's somewhat of a black hole there, good on puck possession but doesn't know where to be or who to pass to... 6 years of Eller and we are still trying to find him a chair... When he mimics a Weise and simply drives the net to get garbage goals, he's great... but something in his DNA makes him want to complicate his game and control the puck...
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Post by seventeen on Nov 15, 2015 13:55:28 GMT -5
You may not even need to make a trade. McCarron got 5 points last night and has been consistent in getting on the scoreboard. He's playing centre in St. John's, but was drafted as a right winger. He's a guy who can hold the puck and is a good passer, so that might complement the Chucky line quite well. Anyway, it's a simple gamble. We might have to send someone to the AHL and that might be problematic, but not insurmountable. At some point this season I think McCarron and Hudon will have to be given an opportunity to join the big club. The great thing is they're both defensively responsible, so they could play anywhere in the line-up.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 15, 2015 14:02:38 GMT -5
Again I didn't see the game so the eye test may be different but I'll take those kinds of possession stats every night. And if Semin helps the cause them I'd still take him over Paul Byron. That's a typical case where micro-stats are well... just that... stats... I remember a few years ago, Gomez was a corsi champion on our team, wasn't achieving anything, but what amazing micro-stats he had... The line was not horrible... They were simply inefective offensive wise (as they always are) ...3 shots on goal total for the line in a 40 shots Bonanza, and they had power play time... That's not good for a line who's supposed to be an offensive one. I would not call Semin a "passenger" but if you are not getting the shot from Semin you're not getting much from him. The most important advanced stats are the score and a players actual production. I like advanced stats for a lot of reasons, but you can have great AS and not produce. Unfortunately, this can also go on for a long time. Calgary had crappy advanced stats and made the playoffs. Same thing with Colorado a couple of seasons ago. It doesn't last, of course, because good AS are a symptom of good players and a good system and vice versa. The balancing part of AS is goaltending and finishing. From what I've seen, good AS won't result in a win if your goaltending offsets it. That's what happened last night. Finishing is also a part of it and if you can't finish, the best AS in the world won't help. "Yup, we had the puck in their zone 99% of the game but everything got blocked and then they got one breakaway and scored. That sucks". As mentioned above, Condon looked bad in the Pittsburgh shootout and that might have hurt him mentally. I think he'll get over it. Off to the next game.
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Post by GNick99 on Nov 15, 2015 16:07:18 GMT -5
Takes the league a while to find the holes on Condon. Tokarski looked alright in his playoff series against Rangers then fell off. Quite common, seen it many times ie. Steve Penny, Wayne Thomas
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 17:13:29 GMT -5
This was a tough one on multiple accounts. I don't think they played poorly enough to warrant a 6-1 score, but Condon definitely allowed a few shots he would really like another crack at. He's been showing some bad habits since the start of the year, but has generally been in the right place at the right time. Last night he didn't have it, and it's hard to tell if this is an anomaly or if his armour's starting to crack away.
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Post by PTH on Nov 15, 2015 18:24:13 GMT -5
This was a tough one on multiple accounts. I don't think they played poorly enough to warrant a 6-1 score, but Condon definitely allowed a few shots he would really like another crack at. He's been showing some bad habits since the start of the year, but has generally been in the right place at the right time. Last night he didn't have it, and it's hard to tell if this is an anomaly or if his armour's starting to crack away. Well, goals #2 and #3 were terrific skill plays by McKinnon.... goal #4 was the back-breaker, it being an iffy goal on a straight shot... after that, they all knew the game was done. I think Condon is still was he was before that game - a rookie backup who is generally sound, but not a starter. Let's not forget all goalies let in bad goals at times.
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 15, 2015 18:40:46 GMT -5
This was a tough one on multiple accounts. I don't think they played poorly enough to warrant a 6-1 score, but Condon definitely allowed a few shots he would really like another crack at. He's been showing some bad habits since the start of the year, but has generally been in the right place at the right time. Last night he didn't have it, and it's hard to tell if this is an anomaly or if his armour's starting to crack away. Well, goals #2 and #3 were terrific skill plays by McKinnon.... goal #4 was the back-breaker, it being an iffy goal on a straight shot... after that, they all knew the game was done. I think Condon is still was he was before that game - a rookie backup who is generally sound, but not a starter. Let's not forget all goalies let in bad goals at times. Yes…I agree on both MacKinnon goals. Those were deft plays by a skilled 1st overall pick. I'm more concerned about Pacioretty….gotta be thinking nagging injury…. And in finding the right winger for Galchenyuk. Be nice if he could be a Mats Sundin-type, in being good enough to excel without the best wingers….then again, Sundin had Mogilny and Roberts at various times. But he always had the Hoglunds, too….
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Post by blny on Nov 15, 2015 19:10:30 GMT -5
First period was one full of chances. Could have easily been 3-0 Montreal. Berra made a couple of great saves. Condon couldn't stop a beach ball. I left. Regardless, losing 6-1 at home should leave a mark. If it doesn't sting, then there's a problem.
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Post by Willie Dog on Nov 15, 2015 20:11:58 GMT -5
If this loss at home bothered the players then they will take it out on the Canucks on monday
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 15, 2015 20:34:52 GMT -5
Holloway is a right winger and is tied for second in scoring in the AHL. McC is tied for fourth. The organization finally has some options if they chose to go that route.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 22:10:37 GMT -5
This was a tough one on multiple accounts. I don't think they played poorly enough to warrant a 6-1 score, but Condon definitely allowed a few shots he would really like another crack at. He's been showing some bad habits since the start of the year, but has generally been in the right place at the right time. Last night he didn't have it, and it's hard to tell if this is an anomaly or if his armour's starting to crack away. Well, goals #2 and #3 were terrific skill plays by McKinnon.... goal #4 was the back-breaker, it being an iffy goal on a straight shot... after that, they all knew the game was done. I think Condon is still was he was before that game - a rookie backup who is generally sound, but not a starter. Let's not forget all goalies let in bad goals at times. For sure. I thought the team was willing to crawl back into it. Goal four definitely was deflating.
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