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Post by HFTO on Jan 18, 2016 17:09:39 GMT -5
Apparently if he loses to the Bruins he's done .... Who's cheering for the Bruins?? Take it with a grain of salt but something has to give....not convinced since he just signed an extension around the time this slide started.
I'm far far from a fan but he is handcuffed with a lack of elite talenT.
That being said is poor in game management stubbornness and bias towards his type players is the main cause for this team not even being able to tread water.
I do fear whom the replacement maybe ....I hope it's an outsider given this orgs failure to develop players.
HFTO
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Post by blny on Jan 18, 2016 17:40:18 GMT -5
I don't consider Gagnon one to spew baseless rumours, so I think there's definitely some truth to it. Removing Therrien is one part of the puzzle. I'd still like to make some changes, but the right coach with an adaptive system that suits the players and the ability to adapt in-game will make a huge difference.
Marc Crawford? He's been coaching in Switzerland. Bilingual. Apparently interviewed with Berg the last time. What if he was brought in as head coach, Lefebvre brought up to coach the defense, Lacroix goes, and they decide mutually on the futures of Jodoin and Ramsay? To fill the role in St John's, I'd be looking squarely at Dominique Ducharme.
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Post by jkr on Jan 18, 2016 18:21:05 GMT -5
What's with that thread title? They have have been playing .450 hockey the last 20 games. That's more than enough to get anybody fired. If Pitt wins tonight the Habs are in 9th place. Molson should be putting Bergevin on borrowed time too.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 18, 2016 18:36:52 GMT -5
According to Molson, he and Berg talk once a week, so Berg is smart enough to have a good pipeline to the owner, as he should. For that reason, I really don't think Berg's job is in jeopardy. He's done enough good things to avoid a bullet this time. Where Therrien has gone wrong is not even producing a .500 record while Carey was out. That's what I expected and assumed would happen. Actually, given the loser points available even .500 would be below average, but probably would be excusable. Having the very worst record in the NHL since Dec 2nd is not acceptable. Lots of bad luck in there, but some of it was self inflicted. His line-up decisions continue to baffle. Molson doesn't seem to be a hockey idiot, so when fans complain about DD's ice time, about who gets put out in key situations and in overtime, about coaches missing an obvious offside and not challenging "because the notice came too late", he has to be shaking his head as well. Were the phone lines flooded with calls, so the guys upstairs couldn't get through to Therrien? Or was someone busy going to the washroom or getting a coffee?
No, Therrien has not performed to the expected level. He'd be understandably given a mulligan while Price was injured. But not to the tune of the worst performance in the league.
PS. I'll believe he's fired when the game is on and Therrien's in front of his tv at home, watching it from there. That's how skeptical I've become.
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Post by jkr on Jan 18, 2016 18:41:43 GMT -5
According to Molson, he and Berg talk once a week, so Berg is smart enough to have a good pipeline to the owner, as he should. For that reason, I really don't think Berg's job is in jeopardy. He's done enough good things to avoid a bullet this time. Where Therrien has gone wrong is not even producing a .500 record while Carey was out. That's what I expected and assumed would happen. Actually, given the loser points available even .500 would be below average, but probably would be excusable. Having the very worst record in the NHL since Dec 2nd is not acceptable. Lots of bad luck in there, but some of it was self inflicted. His line-up decisions continue to baffle. Molson doesn't seem to be a hockey idiot, so when fans complain about DD's ice time, about who gets put out in key situations and in overtime, about coaches missing an obvious offside and not challenging "because the notice came too late", he has to be shaking his head as well. Were the phone lines flooded with calls, so the guys upstairs couldn't get through to Therrien? Or was someone busy going to the washroom or getting a coffee? No, Therrien has not performed to the expected level. He'd be understandably given a mulligan while Price was injured. But not to the tune of the worst performance in the league. PS. I'll believe he's fired when the game is on and Therrien's in front of his tv at home, watching it from there. That's how skeptical I've become. They missed the offside because now the coaches can't even watch.
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Post by franko on Jan 18, 2016 18:50:03 GMT -5
he just signed an extension around the time this slide started. no, Bergevin signed the contract extension in the fall . . . MT's extension was a year ago (2014)
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Post by franko on Jan 18, 2016 18:53:03 GMT -5
They have have been playing .450 hockey the last 20 games. That's more than enough to get anybody fired. worst record in the league if the Sens win tonight they're tied
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Post by blny on Jan 18, 2016 19:00:03 GMT -5
What's with that thread title? I'm gonna say auto correct on a cell phone.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 18, 2016 19:12:53 GMT -5
he just signed an extension around the time this slide started. no, Bergevin signed the contract extension in the fall . . . MT's extension was a year ago (2014) It's a 3 year extension with a club option 4th (which probably won't be exercised) If he's let go, it will cost the team $5MM ($2MM per for each of the last 2years and $1MM for what's left of this year. A $5MM mistake. Might be why Berg is reluctant to pull the trigger.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 18, 2016 19:14:16 GMT -5
What's with that thread title? I'm gonna say auto correct on a cell phone. Fixed it to protect the innocent.
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Post by franko on Jan 18, 2016 20:43:49 GMT -5
no, Bergevin signed the contract extension in the fall . . . MT's extension was a year ago (2014) It's a 3 year extension with a club option 4th (which probably won't be exercised) If he's let go, it will cost the team $5MM ($2MM per for each of the last 2years and $1MM for what's left of this year. A $5MM mistake. Might be why Berg is reluctant to pull the trigger. I figured that it was a one-and-a-half year deal when it was signed, with unemployment bonus. unless the Habs go on a huge run he ain't gonna make it and he can go back to slagging PK on L'Antichambre.
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Post by jkr on Jan 18, 2016 22:47:56 GMT -5
What happens if they win? Safe for the rest of the season?
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 18, 2016 23:02:40 GMT -5
What happens if they win? Safe for the rest of the season? If Price is gone for a few more weeks yet….it's only a matter of time. Therrien's position is the epitome of preCAREYous….
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 19, 2016 0:41:43 GMT -5
What's with that thread title? They have have been playing .450 hockey the last 20 games. That's more than enough to get anybody fired. If Pitt wins tonight the Habs are in 9th place. Molson should be putting Bergevin on borrowed time too. I'm no math wiz but if the record since Dec 2 is 4-15-1, then MT is below .250. No one, and I mean no one, keeps their job with that %. Unless the boss is worried as he knows that a firing would indicate a very bad hiring/extension decision. The way i look at it is that the team should not be worried about the amount still owed on the contract if MT is fired. If MT takes on another job with another team, we're off the hook. If he can't get another job with another team then that is all we, including MB and Molson, need to know. Why would we want a coach who has a terrible record coaching us when no one else in the league will have him. as far as i'm concerned, MT's been on borrowed time since the date of his second hiring. I would love to find that thread to see what people thought. But as I recall, I know it was my view and many others that hiring MT was a big mistake.
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2016 7:24:47 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie on one of the tsn radio stations yesterday, saying that Bergevin essentially "doubled down" by extending Therrien before the season.
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2016 7:38:57 GMT -5
What's with that thread title? They have have been playing .450 hockey the last 20 games. That's more than enough to get anybody fired. If Pitt wins tonight the Habs are in 9th place. Molson should be putting Bergevin on borrowed time too. I'm no math wiz but if the record since Dec 2 is 4-15-1, then MT is below .250. No one, and I mean no one, keeps their job with that %. Unless the boss is worried as he knows that a firing would indicate a very bad hiring/extension decision. The way i look at it is that the team should not be worried about the amount still owed on the contract if MT is fired. If MT takes on another job with another team, we're off the hook. If he can't get another job with another team then that is all we, including MB and Molson, need to know. Why would we want a coach who has a terrible record coaching us when no one else in the league will have him. as far as i'm concerned, MT's been on borrowed time since the date of his second hiring. I would love to find that thread to see what people thought. But as I recall, I know it was my view and many others that hiring MT was a big mistake. Here's a thread with a poll ... gonna flip through lol habsrus.proboards.com/thread/16861/michel-therrien
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2016 7:43:52 GMT -5
Nice praises fro Mike Yeo, head coach of the Minnesota Wild and former assistant coach of Michel Therrien. The interview is in French. www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey/201206/06/01-4532177-mike-yeo-jai-tellement-appris-de-lui.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B9_sports_257_accueil_POS2He's basicall saying: - he was surprised it took so long before he got hired back in the NHL - he learned a lot from MT - MT is not getting the credit he should for being a very good tactician - He turned around the Pens, changing The structure and culture of the club - A good motivator - A good bench boss, really awake behind the bench. Recognizes the "hot" players and adjust with more ice time- Said he spoke with a majority of players who played for MT and that he was respected. He is hard on the players but he also cares for them and take good care of them. Said many former players called MT to congratulate him for his new position. Only if 'hot' translates to his favorites.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 19, 2016 8:02:56 GMT -5
Nice praises fro Mike Yeo, head coach of the Minnesota Wild and former assistant coach of Michel Therrien. The interview is in French. www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey/201206/06/01-4532177-mike-yeo-jai-tellement-appris-de-lui.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B9_sports_257_accueil_POS2He's basicall saying: - he was surprised it took so long before he got hired back in the NHL - he learned a lot from MT - MT is not getting the credit he should for being a very good tactician - He turned around the Pens, changing The structure and culture of the club - A good motivator - A good bench boss, really awake behind the bench. Recognizes the "hot" players and adjust with more ice time- Said he spoke with a majority of players who played for MT and that he was respected. He is hard on the players but he also cares for them and take good care of them. Said many former players called MT to congratulate him for his new position. Only if 'hot' translates to his favorites. HOT is an acronym for 'He Only Trusts'
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Post by jkr on Jan 19, 2016 8:12:50 GMT -5
What's with that thread title? They have have been playing .450 hockey the last 20 games. That's more than enough to get anybody fired. If Pitt wins tonight the Habs are in 9th place. Molson should be putting Bergevin on borrowed time too. I'm no math wiz but if the record since Dec 2 is 4-15-1, then MT is below .250. No one, and I mean no one, keeps their job with that %. Unless the boss is worried as he knows that a firing would indicate a very bad hiring/extension decision. The way i look at it is that the team should not be worried about the amount still owed on the contract if MT is fired. If MT takes on another job with another team, we're off the hook. If he can't get another job with another team then that is all we, including MB and Molson, need to know. Why would we want a coach who has a terrible record coaching us when no one else in the league will have him. as far as i'm concerned, MT's been on borrowed time since the date of his second hiring. I would love to find that thread to see what people thought. But as I recall, I know it was my view and many others that hiring MT was a big mistake. Obviously I'm no math whiz either. I was doing 9 points in 20 games rather than 9 points out of a possible 40.
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2016 8:50:46 GMT -5
Only if 'hot' translates to his favorites. HOT is an acronym for 'He Only Trusts' LOL well played!
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 19, 2016 9:25:16 GMT -5
as far as i'm concerned, MT's been on borrowed time since the date of his second hiring. I would love to find that thread to see what people thought. But as I recall, I know it was my view and many others that hiring MT was a big mistake. IIRC, I was open to giving him another chance….my only reservation being that he had a TON of offensive talent in Pittsburgh, and he still got fired….then ZOOM, they tore their way to the Cup.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 19, 2016 9:25:24 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie on one of the tsn radio stations yesterday, saying that Bergevin essentially "doubled down" by extending Therrien before the season. He has a habit of doing that before he needs to. The contracts for Emelin and Desharnais. You could throw Plekanec in there since I believe he wanted to stay here and could have been signed in the summer.
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2016 9:42:01 GMT -5
Bob McKenzie on one of the tsn radio stations yesterday, saying that Bergevin essentially "doubled down" by extending Therrien before the season. He has a habit of doing that before he needs to. The contracts for Emelin and Desharnais. You could throw Plekanec in there since I believe he wanted to stay here and could have been signed in the summer. He thought DD would be able to maintain the 60 point pace. If DD were truly a #2 center, behind an established #1 line, he isn't terrible value at $3.5 million. I can live with that, and could have lived with that role. Mt's use of him is more the root of the problem. Emelin was a mistake. Too much for a one dimensional player. Plekanec was a mistake. The two year extension for $12 million is a boat anchor imo. If they can move enough pieces to get him into a third line role, and then surround him with cheaper players suited for that line, you can mitigate the cost. The flip side is an excellent deal with Gallagher, and a good bridge deal with Galchenyuk.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 19, 2016 10:38:55 GMT -5
If we look at Therrien's career
2000-01 - 23-27-6-6 missed playoffs
2001-02 - 36-31-12-3 This was the year that we were just below 0.500 at the Olympic break. When the Olympics was over, Theodore carried the team on his back into the playoffs and into the second round. It was also the season Koivu returned from cancer just before the playoffs. Theodore had a 0.931 save percentage that year, and won the Vezina/Hart Trophies.
2003-03 - 18-19-4 .. Fired
2005-06 - 14-29-8 .. missed playoffs (I think he was hired mid season)
2006-07 - 47-24-11 .. lost in first round
2007-08 - 47-27-8 ... lost in Finals. Fleury and Conklin with a 0.922 save percentage
2008-09 - 27-25-5 ... Fired
And we know about the second Montreal tenure. Two seasons ago Price posted a 0.927 save percentage and last year he posted a 0.933 save percentage and won the Hart and Vezina.
It's probably true of most coaches that as the goalie goes, so does the coach ... but it is even more so with Therrien. Theodore, Fluery, Price
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2016 10:54:00 GMT -5
If we look at Therrien's career 2000-01 - 23-27-6-6 missed playoffs 2001-02 - 36-31-12-3 This was the year that we were just below 0.500 at the Olympic break. When the Olympics was over, Theodore carried the team on his back into the playoffs and into the second round. It was also the season Koivu returned from cancer just before the playoffs. Theodore had a 0.931 save percentage that year, and won the Vezina/Hart Trophies. 2003-03 - 18-19-4 .. Fired 2005-06 - 14-29-8 .. missed playoffs (I think he was hired mid season) 2006-07 - 47-24-11 .. lost in first round 2007-08 - 47-27-8 ... lost in Finals. Fleury and Conklin with a 0.922 save percentage 2008-09 - 27-25-5 ... Fired And we know about the second Montreal tenure. Two seasons ago Price posted a 0.927 save percentage and last year he posted a 0.933 save percentage and won the Hart and Vezina. It's probably true of most coaches that as the goalie goes, so does the coach ... but it is even more so with Therrien. Theodore, Fluery, Price Good perspective. The 02 playoff team was fueled by so much emotion that it overcame it's shortcomings for a while. Those shortcomings were not addressed over the summer. Hard to believe Koivu put up 71 points on a team where the best winger was Zednik. The Polish Prince was an utter bust. The Odor came crashing back down to Earth somewhat. It could be argued that Therrien was scapegoated, but most agreed he'd worn thin. We've got a better defensive group than those years. Better goalie. Even with Condon in, he's not typically been the glaring issue (though a clutch save here and there would be nice). We've got better scorers on the wing (imo) with Gallagher and Pacioretty. I get a tear thinking about what a Koivu in his prime could do with them. Then I get mad because we've got a kid chomping at the bit. In the end, for me, this whole tenure boils down to favorites. Therrien would still be giving top 4 minutes to Bouillon if he were around, and that's not good. Too many lackeys. Too many of the wrong guys getting preferential treatment.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 19, 2016 10:59:20 GMT -5
I didn't mean to lame this collapse at Condon's feet ... I don't blame Condon at all. My mantra has been we need scoring for over a decade now, but even with two of the best offensive talents in the game, Therrien STILL needed above average goaltending
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2016 11:02:25 GMT -5
I didn't mean to lame this collapse at Condon's feet ... I don't blame Condon at all. My mantra has been we need scoring for over a decade now, but even with two of the best offensive talents in the game, Therrien STILL needed above average goaltending I hear yah.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 19, 2016 11:18:59 GMT -5
The point about Therrien is well-made. No arguments from me.
But you usually need a goalie at the top of his game to go far in the playoffs.
Thomas in 2011. Conn Smythe.
Crawford in 2013, arguably should've won the Smythe.
....and last year, after a poor start in Round 1 vs. the Preds, Crawford gathered himself together nicely.
Conference Finals vs. Anaheim. Down 3-2 in the series....
Game 6: 32 shots. 5-2 W. .938 Game 7: 38 shots. 5-3 W. .921
Finals vs. Tampa Bay
In the 4 Ws vs. the Lightning, Crawford allowed only 3 goals and posted save pcts of:
.957 .960 .969 1.00 When you have stud scoring which can survive mediocre goaltending for a while...plus the right stuff behind the bench and in management...it usually results in a parade when the goalie is stellar.
We have the goaltending....we appear to still be missing the other three ingredients. Scoring, coaching, architecture...
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2016 11:25:13 GMT -5
I think one more legitimate goal scoring threat takes huge pressure off. It means the other team can't focus on one line. It means guys aren't squeezing their sticks thinking that the entire offense has to come from them.
While I'd be prepared to pay a significant price to get it, the few teams that might have it aren't willing to give it up unless it's a huge over payment.
As much as we're crying for offense, we're 8th in goals. Granted a big chunk of that is from the first two months. We're 14 in goals against.
Dallas, Washington, and Chicago all have 140 goals or more. Dallas could use an upgrade on defense, but they're not panicking because the offense is still going strong.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 19, 2016 11:37:16 GMT -5
So, we'll just continue to waste the Price-Subban-Pacioretty window.
Because we're going nowhere with this pattern....nowhere. Where's the scoring going to come from....
As long as Pleks and DD are our top centres.....not a chance in Hades....
"Copy and paste" as long as things remain status quo....
Learned my lesson...I'll always be a fan....but I won't get my hopes up until a final horn/buzzer signals that we're going to the Finals.
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