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Post by habsburgher on Jan 29, 2016 17:45:49 GMT -5
The coach is not the problem the fact that the forward group on this team is mostly comprised of 3rd and 4th liners is the issue.
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Post by PTH on Jan 29, 2016 18:22:00 GMT -5
The coach is not the problem the fact that the forward group on this team is mostly comprised of 3rd and 4th liners is the issue. Yup. We have 4 top-6 forwards, so it's clear that you'll have some non-top-6 forwards on the top 2 lines, and their composition will always be a pain. Desharnais, Fleischmann, Weise, Eller: 2 of these guys will be in the top 6, when really none of them should be.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 29, 2016 19:14:32 GMT -5
The coach is not the problem the fact that the forward group on this team is mostly comprised of 3rd and 4th liners is the issue. I have two issues with theory. 1) we had the exact same line-up (minus Semin) when we were the best team in the NHL up to November. They were not relying on Price, because they were leading the league in goals. So why all of a sudden is it a player problem and not a coaching problem ... 2) if we accept the premise that it isn't a coaching problem, then it most assuredly must be a GM problem. He brought in the 3rd and 4th liners that everybody lauded as low risk , high potential moves.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 29, 2016 20:12:23 GMT -5
I heard that today. Nilan said what he's been saying all week but with the amp turned to 11. Ha! Seeing as he's the only one on the panel who's lived an NHL player's life….I'm inclined to think he knows what he's talking about re: practice methods. He shoots from the lip, a la Cherry…but, as with Cherry, I don't know how analytically deep Nilan can be… I feel Nilan projects a player's point of view a lot better than Cherry ... man, did he ever tee off today ... Cheers. Yes, analyzing something isn't Nilan's strong suit, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. He's noticed that there's something wrong with the team and that the coach and players are not on the same wavelength. His description of practice is humourous. A dozen 3 on 2's, no goals and half of the time they didn't even get a shot on goal. Through the whole thing there was no feedback, no teaching, no coaching. It also didn't seem to be uptempo at all. Skilly has pointed it out many times that they don't have a clue how to handle a 2 on 1. I remember one time, just once, where they started passing the puck back and forth almost immediately when they broke out. The defenseman was totally confused and the Habs scored. It's such a simple, obvious play. It's not hard to teach. There would be similar tips on a 3 on 2. Move the puck, get the dmen chasing and it takes the defenders out of their preferred angles. Yet none of that went on in practice. Anyone still think coaching can't help the offense? Sure it can. If we simply copied a couple of teams break outs (Chicago, LA for example) who always bring a forward back deep to support the puck carrier, we get out of our zone, with possession, way more often than throwing it up the glass and chasing it. It worked early in the season and I now wonder if that's why it worked at all. It's early, very few players have their timing or game shape together, so a team forcing the play in the neutral zone may have a better chance of recovering the puck than they will later on. That strategy now simply fails because the other team isn't bobbling the puck or making poor passes to their teammates. PK is so annoyed at giving away possession that he takes chances to maintain it. NO one else, though, is on the same page, so he's likely to lose the puck and get criticized for it. He's trying to correct a poor system and gets criticized. We have no idea how good this team can be with the current coach. The way Therrien likes to play puts too much pressure on the team. I don't think there's confidence in the system and that sets the stage for many of the bad habits we've gotten into. Maybe we're a much better scoring team than we've come to believe. We were scoring early on, by getting possession in the neutral zone and entering the other teams blue line with speed and numbers. Just count how often we're outnumbered now when we attack. The other guys seem to have an extra man back all the time. That's because we don't come out with speed and possession from our zone. Have all our players really gone to hell in a handbasket since Carey was hurt? Probably not. But they're certainly not playing that way, which brings us back to Nilan and his statement about there being something wrong in the room. Knuckles isn't analytical, but I'd trust his gut feel about the climate on a team.
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Post by folatre on Jan 29, 2016 20:12:53 GMT -5
Bergevin and Therrien owe Carey Price a nice share of the contracts the organisation ultimately will eat.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 29, 2016 20:19:27 GMT -5
The coach is not the problem the fact that the forward group on this team is mostly comprised of 3rd and 4th liners is the issue. Yup. We have 4 top-6 forwards, so it's clear that you'll have some non-top-6 forwards on the top 2 lines, and their composition will always be a pain. Desharnais, Fleischmann, Weise, Eller: 2 of these guys will be in the top 6, when really none of them should be. This makes sense. Early on the only one of these 4 in the top 6 was Eller and he was playing (remarkably) reasonably well on the LW. After Gallagher got hurt that really put the pressure on the top 6 and we ended up with Weise, Byron, DD, and even DSP on the top 6. But everyone was scoring early on. After that early burst of 9 or 10 games, however, even the 3rd line tailed off. That might have been when Carey got hurt or just after it. In fact, I think Gally got hurt between Price's '2' injuries. But now that he's back, why hasn't the offense picked up again. Did Semin really make a difference? I cringe at the thought, but the stats say 'maybe'.
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Post by PTH on Jan 29, 2016 20:29:51 GMT -5
Yup. We have 4 top-6 forwards, so it's clear that you'll have some non-top-6 forwards on the top 2 lines, and their composition will always be a pain. Desharnais, Fleischmann, Weise, Eller: 2 of these guys will be in the top 6, when really none of them should be. This makes sense. Early on the only one of these 4 in the top 6 was Eller and he was playing (remarkably) reasonably well on the LW. After Gallagher got hurt that really put the pressure on the top 6 and we ended up with Weise, Byron, DD, and even DSP on the top 6. But everyone was scoring early on. After that early burst of 9 or 10 games, however, even the 3rd line tailed off. That might have been when Carey got hurt or just after it. In fact, I think Gally got hurt between Price's '2' injuries. But now that he's back, why hasn't the offense picked up again. Did Semin really make a difference? I cringe at the thought, but the stats say 'maybe'. Well, at that point we were in a death spiral of lost confidence - players losing confidence in themselves, their teammates, their goalies... And those first 9 games meant that they hadn't face much adversity to date, so it all came as one massive load of bricks. Plus, they were never really that good to begin with; they should've been a playoff team, but not one that could rest on its laurels.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 29, 2016 21:18:16 GMT -5
The coach is not the problem the fact that the forward group on this team is mostly comprised of 3rd and 4th liners is the issue. I have two issues with theory. 1) we had the exact same line-up (minus Semin) when we were the best team in the NHL up to November. They were not relying on Price, because they were leading the league in goals. So why all of a sudden is it a player problem and not a coaching problem ... 2) if we accept the premise that it isn't a coaching problem, then it most assuredly must be a GM problem. He brought in the 3rd and 4th liners that everybody lauded as low risk , high potential moves. I agree which is why my focus has now turned to MB. I actually believe a new coach would improve things so we are a playoff team if not a contender. If we have 4 top 6 forwards, a Norris winner and the top paid d core in the league, why is our PP so bad. That's all on the coach. With a decent PP we would still be in a secure playoff position. Don't get me going on the mishandling of Chucky, which MB has had hand in. But the fact MB hired MT, will not fire MT, and has made no significant additions in his tenure tells me he is the problem.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 29, 2016 21:27:15 GMT -5
Yup. We have 4 top-6 forwards, so it's clear that you'll have some non-top-6 forwards on the top 2 lines, and their composition will always be a pain. Desharnais, Fleischmann, Weise, Eller: 2 of these guys will be in the top 6, when really none of them should be. This makes sense. Early on the only one of these 4 in the top 6 was Eller and he was playing (remarkably) reasonably well on the LW. After Gallagher got hurt that really put the pressure on the top 6 and we ended up with Weise, Byron, DD, and even DSP on the top 6. But everyone was scoring early on. After that early burst of 9 or 10 games, however, even the 3rd line tailed off. That might have been when Carey got hurt or just after it. In fact, I think Gally got hurt between Price's '2' injuries. But now that he's back, why hasn't the offense picked up again. Did Semin really make a difference? I cringe at the thought, but the stats say 'maybe'. Everyone, myself included, talk about those first nine games , but people are forgetting that the Habs went 18-4-3 in their first 25 games. That's a significant sample size. Also something that's never mentioned is that Gallagher was injured on Nov. 22nd. The Habs went 3-0-1 in the first four games without Gallagher. So why is this same roster now terrible?
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Post by PTH on Jan 29, 2016 22:47:53 GMT -5
This makes sense. Early on the only one of these 4 in the top 6 was Eller and he was playing (remarkably) reasonably well on the LW. After Gallagher got hurt that really put the pressure on the top 6 and we ended up with Weise, Byron, DD, and even DSP on the top 6. But everyone was scoring early on. After that early burst of 9 or 10 games, however, even the 3rd line tailed off. That might have been when Carey got hurt or just after it. In fact, I think Gally got hurt between Price's '2' injuries. But now that he's back, why hasn't the offense picked up again. Did Semin really make a difference? I cringe at the thought, but the stats say 'maybe'. Everyone, myself included, talk about those first nine games , but people are forgetting that the Habs went 18-4-3 in their first 25 games. That's a significant sample size. Also something that's never mentioned is that Gallagher was injured on Nov. 22nd. The Habs went 3-0-1 in the first four games without Gallagher. So why is this same roster now terrible? I think Condon came in and did pretty well, but when Gallagher's absence started to get felt after a few games, and after other teams started seriously breaking down Condon's game, the wheels fell off. As to Semin... I think he gave us a 2nd top-6 RW, or at least he was used as such and it gave us some apparent depth. Without him, Weise joins the top-6 and Byron or DSP are regulars as well...
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 29, 2016 23:02:41 GMT -5
We were 19-4-3 in our first 26 games.
October 7-29
9-2-0 start….Price is injured in the Edmonton game. (Price 7-2-0; Condon 2-0-0)
October 30-November 19
5-2-2 with Condon.
November 20-25
Price returns: 3-0-0….but is gone after the 2nd period of the 3rd game. Gallagher had been injured in Game 2 of this stretch.
November 27-Dec. 29
4-11-1 without Price and Gallagher. (Condon 3-7-1; Tokarski 1-3-0; Scrivens 0-1-0)
January 1-26
3-7-1
Gallagher returns on New Year's Day. Still no Price. (Condon 3-4-1 Scrivens 0-3-0)
===================================================================
PERHAPS….
After the first Price injury, the boys were still playing well, thinking he'd be back relatively soon…and so the "mood" was still upbeat….going 5-2-2 with Condon…
Then Price comes back…back on the winning streak, 3-0-0…..
Which means the team was 17-4-2 with Price either in the lineup or believed to be coming back soon.
After the injury on Nov. 25 against the Rangers, the boys knew it was serious and that he wouldn't be back for a looooooong time….BOOM 7-18-2.
Gallagher has had no significant effect since his return in the Winter Classic on Jan. 1. He's no doubt a boost…but whatever jam he brings hasn't been enough to right the ship.
I think it's as simple as the players knowing their short-comings: line-up weaknesses not rectified by the GM, and inept coaching decisions/strategies….and that Price made up for a TON of it, as he has been doing since the new regime came to town.
Bergevin left them with a rookie goaltender and a couple of AHLers. The mistakes now end up in our net. The dam has burst.
At various times in the collapse, they gave it all they had and still lost. Further demoralizing.
I think there's still lots of character on the team…but "Status quo, what's the use?" appears to be the atmosphere.
Price won those 5 trophies for a reason….
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Post by folatre on Jan 29, 2016 23:34:24 GMT -5
Well, for sure, it is a host of factors. One that is sometimes not discussed at length is bottom six role players being confused with genuine class and quality.
October and November was guys like Weise and Fleischmann (and to an extent Mitchell and Flynn) scoring many more goals in comparison based on their actual career trajectories. It was silly to believe guys like this produce over long season. But I think that early (and unsustainable) productivity from them made Therrien believe the second line could be broken up after ten games; it made him see power play replacement pieces that only a fool would have seen as real power play replacement pieces; it made him open mouth when Kassian was cleared by the league to play again and derisively say paraphrasing I could care less, I like the guys I see at practice every day. And sadly I think Bergevin bought this because it let him do precisely nothing.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 30, 2016 0:04:02 GMT -5
Right, folatre….
The beginning of the season, everybody's fresh…excited….Price was in A-form.
With Semin in the lineup…it kept Flash, Weise, and Desharnais on the third line where they all belong..…and they were coming up big.
Some players have good Octobers….only to tail-off once the season settles in.
Max looks and sounds fed up with something….and I don't think it's just losing. I sense trouble in the dressing room.
TSN690 has been referring to a segment from 24CH, featuring the pre-game locker room talk before the Tampa Bay game. Apparently, PK grabbed the starting line-up sheet from Therrien and read it out, and the camera caught Pacioretty rolling his eyes….as if to say, "There he goes again…grandstanding for the cameras…."
Just reporting what I heard…..
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Post by PTH on Jan 30, 2016 0:48:02 GMT -5
....But I think that early (and unsustainable) productivity from them made Therrien believe the second line could be broken up after ten games; it made him see power play replacement pieces that only a fool would have seen as real power play replacement pieces; it made him open mouth when Kassian was cleared by the league to play again and derisively say paraphrasing I could care less.... Yeah, I'm sure our entire training and management staff didn't see that early season success was due to a few guys having hot starts....
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 30, 2016 1:32:03 GMT -5
Well, for sure, it is a host of factors. One that is sometimes not discussed at length is bottom six role players being confused with genuine class and quality. October and November was guys like Weise and Fleischmann (and to an extent Mitchell and Flynn) scoring many more goals in comparison based on their actual career trajectories. It was silly to believe guys like this produce over long season. But I think that early (and unsustainable) productivity from them made Therrien believe the second line could be broken up after ten games; it made him see power play replacement pieces that only a fool would have seen as real power play replacement pieces; it made him open mouth when Kassian was cleared by the league to play again and derisively say paraphrasing I could care less, I like the guys I see at practice every day. And sadly I think Bergevin bought this because it let him do precisely nothing. Molson was also mining the fool's gold as he gave MB a ridiculous extension during this run. Everyone at the highest levels was drinking the kool-aid. Did it occur to anyone in the organization that many teams (i.e. Hawks, Stars, Caps) have 10 game winning streaks during a season only to plateau? We just had ours the first 10 games. Did the management really think that we were going to continue at that pace and shatter all NHL records with our bottom 6 scoring way above their career avg? This assessment was amateurish from the top down. I don't blame the players. They are who they are. Who assembled these guys?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 30, 2016 1:38:25 GMT -5
When things are going well, it's very easy to believe they will continue to do so, even without the effort being made. Human nature. Then we get woken up by reality.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 30, 2016 1:39:39 GMT -5
Right, folatre…. The beginning of the season, everybody's fresh…excited….Price was in A-form. With Semin in the lineup…it kept Flash, Weise, and Desharnais on the third line where they all belong..…and they were coming up big. Some players have good Octobers….only to tail-off once the season settles in. Max looks and sounds fed up with something….and I don't think it's just losing. I sense trouble in the dressing room. TSN690 has been referring to a segment from 24CH, featuring the pre-game locker room talk before the Tampa Bay game. Apparently, PK grabbed the starting line-up sheet from Therrien and read it out, and the camera caught Pacioretty rolling his eyes….as if to say, "There he goes again…grandstanding for the cameras…." Just reporting what I heard….. It's unfortunate but very likely. Max gets the captaincy as selected by his teammates and PK being PK still likes to express himself in a bold fashion. Max feels that he should be the undisputed leader and PK should know to take a back seat. While i understand Max's sentiment i don't agree with it. I don't think PK is trying to upstage anyone. PK is larger than life regardless of any letter on his jersey. That is his personality. He means no offence. He just has a zest for life. Max should accept it, and get on with his style of leadership. What that is i'm not exactly sure at this point. Perhaps the team should have gone another season without a captain if the leaders and the team were not ready for the current leadership roles.
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Post by habsorbed on Jan 30, 2016 1:47:31 GMT -5
When things are going well, it's very easy to believe they will continue to do so, even without the effort being made. Human nature. Then we get woken up by reality. Yup. And MB and Pleks capitalized on this euphoric period, both with ridiculous signings which would have been unimagined in August. Hard to believe that an experienced organization could allow a 10 game streak to warp all sensibilities. they may not be alone, in that the Hawks extended Quennville during their recent streak. They've since come back to earth. But in their defence, Quennville has led them to the promised land on numerous occasions. MB and MT have a rather limited resume for anyone to have thought they were steering the Good Ship Stanley - more like the Titanic.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 30, 2016 2:36:40 GMT -5
Well, for sure, it is a host of factors. One that is sometimes not discussed at length is bottom six role players being confused with genuine class and quality. October and November was guys like Weise and Fleischmann (and to an extent Mitchell and Flynn) scoring many more goals in comparison based on their actual career trajectories. It was silly to believe guys like this produce over long season. But I think that early (and unsustainable) productivity from them made Therrien believe the second line could be broken up after ten games; it made him see power play replacement pieces that only a fool would have seen as real power play replacement pieces; it made him open mouth when Kassian was cleared by the league to play again and derisively say paraphrasing I could care less, I like the guys I see at practice every day. And sadly I think Bergevin bought this because it let him do precisely nothing. Molson was also mining the fool's gold as he gave MB a ridiculous extension during this run. Everyone at the highest levels was drinking the kool-aid. Did it occur to anyone in the organization that many teams (i.e. Hawks, Stars, Caps) have 10 game winning streaks during a season only to plateau? We just had ours the first 10 games. Did the management really think that we were going to continue at that pace and shatter all NHL records with our bottom 6 scoring way above their career avg? This assessment was amateurish from the top down. I don't blame the players. They are who they are. Who assembled these guys? I have no idea when MT and MB will be fired. I'm tired of coaches and GMs going through the Montreal revolving door. The team dropped from first place to out of the playoffs in record time. Contract extensions were awarded for 1/4 seasons production. Our trades and signings have all failed. Our draft choices are still in the minors. We are told that our best draft choices are the most recent picks but we hear that every year. What does it take to realize that the coaches, GM and even ownership have failed, are continuing to fail, and nothing is being done.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 30, 2016 4:59:28 GMT -5
Well, for sure, it is a host of factors. One that is sometimes not discussed at length is bottom six role players being confused with genuine class and quality. October and November was guys like Weise and Fleischmann (and to an extent Mitchell and Flynn) scoring many more goals in comparison based on their actual career trajectories. It was silly to believe guys like this produce over long season. But I think that early (and unsustainable) productivity from them made Therrien believe the second line could be broken up after ten games; it made him see power play replacement pieces that only a fool would have seen as real power play replacement pieces; it made him open mouth when Kassian was cleared by the league to play again and derisively say paraphrasing I could care less, I like the guys I see at practice every day. And sadly I think Bergevin bought this because it let him do precisely nothing. Molson was also mining the fool's gold as he gave MB a ridiculous extension during this run. Everyone at the highest levels was drinking the kool-aid. Did it occur to anyone in the organization that many teams (i.e. Hawks, Stars, Caps) have 10 game winning streaks during a season only to plateau? We just had ours the first 10 games. Did the management really think that we were going to continue at that pace and shatter all NHL records with our bottom 6 scoring way above their career avg? This assessment was amateurish from the top down. I don't blame the players. They are who they are. Who assembled these guys? The Habs have had a number of fast starts over the last dozen years, only to collapse by Christmas. Part of it is the small and quick team that can exploit the early lathergy of bigger teams. Then they get into the mid season grind....and their butts visit the ice more often. They have to be on desperation mode all year long to be on top...and no way they can maintain that for 82 games AND playoffs. Any intelligent owner should of known this and downstream, any intelligent GM should of seen this before extending any contracts for coaches. Epic amateurism. On the other hand, Mol$on is uber intelligent on extracting max dollar$ from the fan$.... This is not the Habs type of management i grew up with....
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 30, 2016 5:10:21 GMT -5
. What does it take to realize that the coaches, GM and even ownership have failed, are continuing to fail, and nothing is being done. Failed? FAILED? They are now worth 1.15 billion and profitable every year. How have they failed? They are a business and from a business point, they are spectacularly successful. Our metrics of wins and cups really doesn't amount to a hill of beans as long as WE keep pay top dollar for a mediocre product. The only failure here are the foolish fans who keep buying endless bs of phoney hope without linking our $$$ to on ice success.
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Post by jkr on Jan 30, 2016 7:22:36 GMT -5
Right, folatre…. The beginning of the season, everybody's fresh…excited….Price was in A-form. With Semin in the lineup…it kept Flash, Weise, and Desharnais on the third line where they all belong..…and they were coming up big. Some players have good Octobers….only to tail-off once the season settles in. Max looks and sounds fed up with something….and I don't think it's just losing. I sense trouble in the dressing room. TSN690 has been referring to a segment from 24CH, featuring the pre-game locker room talk before the Tampa Bay game. Apparently, PK grabbed the starting line-up sheet from Therrien and read it out, and the camera caught Pacioretty rolling his eyes….as if to say, "There he goes again…grandstanding for the cameras…." Just reporting what I heard….. I have seen that too. He takes the card from Lacroix actually. Most of the guys are laughing from what I could see. I think they are making something out of very little here. The more I think about it the more I feel Therrien will start next season. Bergevin won't punish him for having to play the last 3 months with a rookie and a AHL guy in goal. I do not feel Therrien is blameless but he will get to start next season - with a short leash.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 30, 2016 7:47:05 GMT -5
TSN690 has been referring to a segment from 24CH, featuring the pre-game locker room talk before the Tampa Bay game. Apparently, PK grabbed the starting line-up sheet from Therrien and read it out, and the camera caught Pacioretty rolling his eyes….as if to say, "There he goes again…grandstanding for the cameras…." Just reporting what I heard….. This was the scenario I was referring to when I suggested removing the cameras out of the dressing room ... I saw that broadcast and I don't remember Pacioretty rolling his eyeballs; however, I do remember him with a 'whatever' look as PK carried on about the lineup ... I just think the cameras are a distraction, is all ... Cheers.
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Post by habsask on Jan 30, 2016 9:19:01 GMT -5
TSN690 has been referring to a segment from 24CH, featuring the pre-game locker room talk before the Tampa Bay game. Apparently, PK grabbed the starting line-up sheet from Therrien and read it out, and the camera caught Pacioretty rolling his eyes….as if to say, "There he goes again…grandstanding for the cameras…." Just reporting what I heard….. This was the scenario I was referring to when I suggested removing the cameras out of the dressing room ... I saw that broadcast and I don't remember Pacioretty rolling his eyeballs; however, I do remember him with a 'whatever' look as PK carried on about the lineup ... I just think the cameras are a distraction, is all ... Cheers. Hmmm...whomever allowed cameras into the dressing room before the game was finished ought ``to have his head read`` as we used to say in the old days (yup I`m old). Folks here about are getting pretty ornery. And are a bear for punishment. I`ve finally figured how to deal with these situations....forget about it & check back every now & then & if it`s no better repeat etc. It`s worked wonders for me. Adds years to your life. Really...I`m still here. Cheers
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Post by franko on Jan 30, 2016 9:59:56 GMT -5
TSN690 has been referring to a segment from 24CH, featuring the pre-game locker room talk before the Tampa Bay game. Apparently, PK grabbed the starting line-up sheet from Therrien and read it out, and the camera caught Pacioretty rolling his eyes….as if to say, "There he goes again…grandstanding for the cameras…." Just reporting what I heard….. you may be right . . . but otoh is this anything new? this is PK being PK, right or wrong. if Max has a problem with that then there will division or derision until one of them goes. just another day in the soap opera.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 30, 2016 11:30:18 GMT -5
Yeah, there may be nothing to it....
The media and the fans are looking for the answer...when employing Occam's Razor might provide it: No Price = Nothing to hide behind.
The GM has failed to provide legit Top 6 scorers, and the coach has responded with constant line-juggling. Little else has been noted in terms of innovation....unless the boys have said, "What's the use?" and have tuned out MT.
Which is why Pacioretty--as the captain facing the music loss after loss--is sounding angry, frustrated, despondent.
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Post by frozone on Jan 30, 2016 12:45:51 GMT -5
I think this is a case of the hot start working against them. The coaching staff is looking back at the first ~20 games and saying "let's get back to what worked." But the problem is that other teams have figured out how to play against the Habs, and MT and crew haven't adapted to that.
That's essentially why I think MT should be fired. He doesn't adapt. He changes his system in the off-season only. Back in mid November, Elliot Friedman wrote an article breaking down the Habs system. Opposing teams were surely starting to figure out how to play the Habs at this point. And now the whole league know how to beat us. Pressure our D.
Yes, the forwards aren't scoring, but imo the defense is what makes or breaks the system and they're simply being squeezed too thin right now. They're missing Carey, whose puck handling alone probably bought them an extra 2 or 3 seconds on almost every puck retrieval. They're also being asked to jump into the rush more often because that was a huge part of our offense early in the season. And on top of that, they don't have the lob pass option anymore because the opposition knows to cover for that play in the neutral zone. So now our D is stuck looking for an alternative play, with even less time then they had before. And when they do get the puck out, they have to jump up into the rush to support the offense. Even Petry with his speed is struggling to do it all.
Markov had a 5 point night earlier this season... there's no way he's aged so much in 3 months. This is simply what happens when you have a coach that doesn't bother coaching to each player's individual strengths and weaknesses. Without Price's puck handling, MT needs to take a serious look at how to give the D more options. Personally, I would use the short pass up the middle approach that many on this board seem to like. Michel "I-don't-change-the-system-mid-season" Therrien needs to adapt.
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Post by habsask on Jan 30, 2016 13:29:38 GMT -5
Yeah, there may be nothing to it.... The media and the fans are looking for the answer...when employing Occam's Razor might provide it: No Price = Nothing to hide behind. The GM has failed to provide legit Top 6 scorers, and the coach has responded with constant line-juggling. Little else has been noted in terms of innovation....unless the boys have said, "What's the use?" and have tuned out MT. Which is why Pacioretty--as the captain facing the music loss after loss--is sounding angry, frustrated, despondent. Just as a matter of interest, I'm curious how MB was supposed to get one or two top 6 forward talents w/o giving up such or the equivalent on defense + stay within the Cap. I'm not trying to stir the pot I just not clear how it could have been done. I do think think that some of the contracts he gave out have not worked out but a lot of that is based on hindsight. e.g. I remember a lot of folks here were happy when he signed Petry up. IMO MB's plan has always been to draft & develop & get the top talent through that source. If that's the case hopefully that should start to seriously come on line next season although to his credit Galchenyuk & Gallagher have been added. Meanwhile keep trying to plug in 'serviceable' players & try for incremental changes. From the beginning I thought that it would take a full 5 seasons at least to turn this team around unless they got very lucky in the draft. We should not forget or underestimate the damage done to the franchise by Gainey & Gauthier. As well all the high finishes the Habs have pulled off until this season have militated against this making it even harder. So I'm not saying that Bergevin shouldn't carry his share of the responsibility for the current situation (which he has- all of it in fact) Just that folks should keep some perspective. Coaching is a different matter & that one is clearly his problem alone. Having said all of that I honestly don't think there's a silver bullet that will solve all the Habs problems. Just my 2 cents as usual. Cheers.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 30, 2016 13:53:27 GMT -5
I think this is a case of the hot start working against them. The coaching staff is looking back at the first ~20 games and saying "let's get back to what worked." But the problem is that other teams have figured out how to play against the Habs, and MT and crew haven't adapted to that. That's essentially why I think MT should be fired. He doesn't adapt. He changes his system in the off-season only. Back in mid November, Elliot Friedman wrote an article breaking down the Habs system. Opposing teams were surely starting to figure out how to play the Habs at this point. And now the whole league know how to beat us. Pressure our D. Yes, the forwards aren't scoring, but imo the defense is what makes or breaks the system and they're simply being squeezed too thin right now. They're missing Carey, whose puck handling alone probably bought them an extra 2 or 3 seconds on almost every puck retrieval. They're also being asked to jump into the rush more often because that was a huge part of our offense early in the season. And on top of that, they don't have the lob pass option anymore because the opposition knows to cover for that play in the neutral zone. So now our D is stuck looking for an alternative play, with even less time then they had before. And when they do get the puck out, they have to jump up into the rush to support the offense. Even Petry with his speed is struggling to do it all. Markov had a 5 point night earlier this season... there's no way he's aged so much in 3 months. This is simply what happens when you have a coach that doesn't bother coaching to each player's individual strengths and weaknesses. Without Price's puck handling, MT needs to take a serious look at how to give the D more options. Personally, I would use the short pass up the middle approach that many on this board seem to like. Michel "I-don't-change-the-system-mid-season" Therrien needs to adapt. That won't happen
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 30, 2016 13:53:34 GMT -5
Good post, habsask.
It's not just a regression that has everyone perplexed...it's the epic/historic scope of it....and that no one associated with the team has an answer, at least publicly.
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