|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 3, 2016 8:38:26 GMT -5
My target would be Ryan Nugent Hopkins. With McDavid and the emergence of Draisaitl the Oilers have an abundance of offensive depth down the middle. Now they can always move Nugent-Hopkins (or Draisaitl) to the wing, but we know they've been shopping him. They were looking for a stud defenseman, and they look weak on right-wing depth. IF we have a high pick this summer something along the lines of Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov for Beaulieu, our 1st and say Scherbak might get it done. Nugent Hopkins has never lived up to his hype. And he certainly isn't worth a top two defenseman, our only offensive potential prospect, AND a first. Yakupov or no Yakupov this trade makes us weaker on the puck, and doesn't address our scoring. 56 points is RNH's max, we have those players already. We need a game breaker I've heard Ryan Nugent-Hopkins name being bantered about on TSN as the one player most likely to move out of Edmonton ... I feel he hasn't lived up to his hype either, but he'd probably be one of the more talented players on the roster if Montreal were to land him ... mind you, landing RNH would only be a start ... Marc Bergevin needs to address a few more areas, too ... Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Feb 3, 2016 8:50:08 GMT -5
The coach is not the problem the fact that the forward group on this team is mostly comprised of 3rd and 4th liners is the issue. I don't buy that. The Canadiens rolled up 110 points the previous season with much the same key forwards. The problems are systemic. I am not sure there is another team in the league that could suffer one injury and then have their entire season go from historical best to historical worst. One player simply cannot have that much of an impact. I just keep thinking that it's got to be more. Good coaches and managers have plans in place for different outcomes. In sports it should be no different. If things don't go as planned, then go to your plan B. If that doesn't work, then go to plan C. etc. It just feels like this Coach/GM combination each have one plan they use for all events. Coach: Just shuffle lines with the same combinations that don't work until eventually something good happens. GM: Find more grinders so that we can win with character. There is little to no creativity from that perspective and the team reflects that stale, lackluster organizational philosophy of doing the very least. Having said that I think we are now at a point where doing something really should be the last thing on our minds. The best course of action right now is to do nothing until the deadline, and then sell whatever you can, ride the sinking ship deep into the abyss and hope that that is enough to land us a top 3 pick. The coach obviously has to go, but nothing I have seen will indicate that. I have even started to convince myself that this whole mess was actually Bergy's plan all along. But then I remember that he is the one who extended Therrien at the start of the year so yeah... our team is run by men that are basically unqualified for their roles. They are in over their heads and it's very obvious they don't have any plans, or solutions to correct the slide.
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Feb 3, 2016 10:34:14 GMT -5
Nugent Hopkins has never lived up to his hype. And he certainly isn't worth a top two defenseman, our only offensive potential prospect, AND a first. Yakupov or no Yakupov this trade makes us weaker on the puck, and doesn't address our scoring. 56 points is RNH's max, we have those players already. We need a game breaker I've heard Ryan Nugent-Hopkins name being bantered about on TSN as the one player most likely to move out of Edmonton ... I feel he hasn't lived up to his hype either, but he'd probably be one of the more talented players on the roster if Montreal were to land him ... mind you, landing RNH would only be a start ... Marc Bergevin needs to address a few more areas, too ... Cheers. He probably would Dis. But that will not translate into more goals/points. Looking back over the past 12 years, there are not many players who experience a jump in production when they come to Montreal. The only one that really did was Erik Cole (who was a UFA). But for the most part, all of the guys we traded for either dipped in production or hovered around their averages. I may be wrong, but I do not see RNH fitting into our system. I haven't seen much of his play this year, but from what I remember he is a perimeter player who likes to pass more often than shoot.
|
|
|
Post by franko on Feb 3, 2016 10:49:57 GMT -5
He probably would Dis. But that will not translate into more goals/points. Looking back over the past 12 years, there are not many players who experience a jump in production when they come to Montreal. The only one that really did was Erik Cole (who was a UFA). But for the most part, all of the guys we traded for either dipped in production or hovered around their averages. I may be wrong, but I do not see RNH fitting into our system. I haven't seen much of his play this year, but from what I remember he is a perimeter player who likes to pass more often than shoot. well here's an idea, Skilly . . . bear with me now . . . how about we change the freakin' system? I know, I know, I know, it may mean that we have to change the coach, but it seems to me that the coach is directing the players to play a system that isn't working, so why bother to get different players that will be stuck in something that doesn't work? a novel idea, I'm sure . . .
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Feb 3, 2016 10:55:06 GMT -5
If Therrien and his staff are back next year, there will be protests.
Listening to Marinaro's show right now....and I have to say, I agree with his points....
MT may be safe til the end of the year...but, in reality, he's quit coaching already.....
Last night...in a one-goal game, Gudas (repeat offender) went low and clipped Lessio's knee.
Therrien showed no anger, no fire. There's no doubt in my mind that a coach like Quenneville would've been standing on the boards, yelling at the Flyers' bench.
We go on a 5:00 PP....during which MT just rolled his regular lines....then he put on the third line (Eller, Flash, DSP) for some PP time.
When asked about that decision, Therrien said, "Sometimes you have to put the third line out to keep a certain energy."
Huh??? What about a timeout to rest the Top 6? How about a timeout....and you put your 5 most offensive players on the ice?
Um....how about pulling your goalie for the final minute of the PP? Your back's against the wall....against a team below you in the standings!
Add to that, Therrien's comment about Mason having a great game....and that it seems we're always facing hot goalies lately....
BUT...no matter.....he's safe til the end of the season.
5-19-1 in our last 25 games. No staff should survive that.
Price's injury is the BEST THING that could've happened.....it's exposed all the warts, cracks, fissures.....and we're going to get a solid pick, it appears.
All for naught, though, if Bergevin keeps Therrien on into next year.....
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Feb 3, 2016 11:17:59 GMT -5
If Therrien and his staff are back next year, there will be protests. Listening to Marinaro's show right now....and I have to say, I agree with his points.... MT may be safe til the end of the year...but, in reality, he's quit coaching already..... Last night...in a one-goal game, Gudas (repeat offender) went low and clipped Lessio's knee. Therrien showed no anger, no fire. There's no doubt in my mind that a coach like Quenneville would've been standing on the boards, yelling at the Flyers' bench. We go on a 5:00 PP....during which MT just rolled his regular lines....then he put on the third line (Eller, Flash, DSP) for some PP time. When asked about that decision, Therrien said, "Sometimes you have to put the third line out to keep a certain energy."Huh??? What about a timeout to rest the Top 6? How about a timeout....and you put your 5 most offensive players on the ice? Um....how about pulling your goalie for the final minute of the PP? Your back's against the wall....against a team below you in the standings! Add to that, Therrien's comment about Mason having a great game....and that it seems we're always facing hot goalies lately.... BUT...no matter.....he's safe til the end of the season. 5-19-1 in our last 25 games. No staff should survive that. Price's injury is the BEST THING that could've happened.....it's exposed all the warts, cracks, fissures.....and we're going to get a solid pick, it appears. All for naught, though, if Bergevin keeps Therrien on into next year..... Look at the bright side... we had good puck luck on our goals.
|
|
|
Post by Tankdriver on Feb 3, 2016 11:22:21 GMT -5
I was just checking the standings and it's quite evident the playoffs are not happening. I think we are now 8 points out of fourth in our division and Detroit/Boston has a game in hand. That means we got to shift our focus to the draft and start shedding players for some picks. Hopefully an announcement regarding Price needing season ending surgery comes out and really enforces the point so that even the most brain dead person realizes that we should be selling now and crushes all confidence in a possible comeback.
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Feb 3, 2016 11:31:18 GMT -5
Jacques Martin was fired in 2011, when our club was 13-12-7. When Randy Cunneyworth took over, there were fans protesting at the Bell Centre. Just listened to a clip on TSN690.
Cunneyworth went 18-23-9. Our final record: 31-35-16. 78 pts. We'll be hard-pressed to reach that total this year.
It should be noted that incoming new GM, Bergevin let Cunneyworth remain as asst. coach. It was Therrien who fired him on June 6th.
5-19-1 and Therrien is safe.
Marinaro's beside himself that the Habs didn't even entertain going after Babcock last year. And it's not just hindsight....he was always a proponent of that move.
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Feb 3, 2016 11:44:53 GMT -5
Jacques Martin was fired in 2011, when our club was 13-12-7. Randy Cunneyworth was our coach, there were fans protesting at the Bell Centre. Just listened to a clip on TSN690. Cunneyworth went 18-23-9. Our final record: 31-35-16. It should be noted that incoming new GM, Bergevin let Cunneyworth remain as asst. coach. It was Therrien who fired him on June 6th. 5-19-1 and Therrien is safe. Marinaro's beside himself that the Habs didn't even entertain going after Babcock last year. And it's not just hindsight....he was always a proponent of that move. The MT extension was probably the most out of nowhere move by this GM. You don't extend a coach who has won 0 Cups, 0 Jack Adams awards, and has absolutely no value to any other team a year before you have to. It's complete lunacy. That alone should be the nail that seals Bergy's coffin. It's just so mind numbingly dumb, and made no sense from any side you look at it.
|
|
|
Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 3, 2016 11:58:28 GMT -5
Price's injury is the BEST THING that could've happened.....it's exposed all the warts, cracks, fissures.....and we're going to get a solid pick, it appears. All for naught, though, if Bergevin keeps Therrien on into next year..... This is a turning point season. The team is imploding and it's simply not possible for Therrien to survive even if Berg wanted to keep him. The point of having a "foxhole guy" as Berg called him is to get "out" of the foxhole, not stay there. Absent a monster push down the stretch, I just don't see how there isn't a coaching change next year. Berg would be putting his own job on the line. As others have said, this season removes any sense of comfort and complacency that Bergevin may have had about this team. There is still a very good core here, and he needs to not be stupid, but Berg can't just tinker anymore. He needs to get aggressive about making sure the 2016-17 Habs are ready to go. I like the idea of targeting one of the EDM stars, but I'd like to see him clear some players at the deadline.
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Feb 3, 2016 12:35:28 GMT -5
I was just checking the standings and it's quite evident the playoffs are not happening. I think we are now 8 points out of fourth in our division and Detroit/Boston has a game in hand. That means we got to shift our focus to the draft and start shedding players for some picks. Hopefully an announcement regarding Price needing season ending surgery comes out and really enforces the point so that even the most brain dead person realizes that we should be selling now and crushes all confidence in a possible comeback. Bergy backed himself up into a corner with his press conference. Which could single handily go down as one of the most disastrous moments of any GM. Look at the facts at the time of the presser: - Ambiguous about Price - Doesn't give MT the standard vote of confidence (i.e. you're gonna get canned if you don't fix this right away) instead gives the unheard of GUARANTEE of confidence, which is like the complete opposite of the vote of confidence. - Puts the blame squarely on himself After the presser: - By all accounts of "gut" feelings it feels like Price may not play much this year - His coach who he guaranteed was safe, looks completely lost and clueless - The players return his "taking one for the team" by doing squat and hanging out in a foxhole In all my years of following sports I have never seen anything quite like this. This is just a mixed of bag of incompetence, unpreparedness, stubbornness and foolishness. Whoever said that Bergy squandered all the goodwill this city had for him is absolutely right. I mean, his team is going up in flames and his answer is to immolate himself along with them and not to find a way to put out the fire. I am not too sure I like that strategy for something like hockey, that is clearly a results orientated business and not some romantic battleground with sides to choose to fight for. Can Bill Belicheck coach/GM a hockey team because that's the type of guy we need here.
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 3, 2016 13:00:10 GMT -5
... how about we change the freakin' system? MT may be safe til the end of the year...but, in reality, he's quit coaching already..... Michel Therrien doesn't have to change anything up and he doesn't have to resign ... he has his GM's endorsement until the end of the season ... was listening to TSN690 about an hour ago and Tony Marinaro was just teeing off on Therrien ... again ... I've tried to stay off the fire-MT-groupthink-bandwagon, but I can't now ... I honestly believe he is the first and, possibly, the biggest problem the team has right now ... this is a guy who made his bones on TV by telling the world what was wrong with the Habs ... well, he's the coach of one of the worst Habs teams in recent memory and the shoe is on the other foot now ... moreover, I think it's hard to accurately evaluate what the team needs when you're losing every game ... to Marc Bergevin I'd say, it won't matter how much high-end talent you bring in ... under Therrien/ Lefebvre, they'll be converted into grinding players ... [/rant] Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 3, 2016 13:36:07 GMT -5
When one thinks about it, saying the coach is guaranteed to be here until the end of the season is about the dumbest thing any gm could ever say. So if the team goes 0-25 over the next 25 games he's still the coach. Really? It's even worse when you think MB was talking about MT whose record is not worthy of any such endorsement.
So MB boxed himself into a corner and now we all have to live with it. All he had to say is the coach is not the problem. But he comes on with his General Patton crap and he's going to look like George Bush. "Read my lips - no new taxes". Even if he waits until the end of the year, so what. what has he achieved, that he's a man of his word. His word means nothing when he's an idiot. Will we all think a lot more of him when the Habs have their worst season of all time and he fires MT in April. I don't think so.
If MT is the fox hole guy MB believes, then MT should be going to MB and saying I'm going to resign so the two of us aren't lynched and the club doesn't go down in infamy. Cause that's what fox hole guys do. I know fox hole guys and MT ain't no fox hole guy!
|
|
|
Post by mikeg on Feb 3, 2016 13:46:31 GMT -5
When one thinks about it, saying the coach is guaranteed to be here until the end of the season is about the dumbest thing any gm could ever say. So if the team goes 0-25 over the next 25 games he's still the coach. Really? It's even worse when you think MB was talking about MT whose record is not worthy of any such endorsement. So MB boxed himself into a corner and now we all have to live with it. All he had to say is the coach is not the problem. But he comes on with his General Patton crap and he's going to look like George Bush. "Read my lips - no new taxes". Even if he waits until the end of the year, so what. what has he achieved, that he's a man of his word. His word means nothing when he's an idiot. Will we all think a lot more of him when the Habs have their worst season of all time and he fires MT in April. I don't think so. If MT is the fox hole guy MB believes, then MT should be going to MB and saying I'm going to resign so the two of us aren't lynched and the club doesn't go down in infamy. Cause that's what fox hole guys do. I know fox hole guys and MT ain't no fox hole guy! Seriously, it is in all honestly one of the most boneheaded things I think a GM has said. It's called a vote of confidence for a reason... everyone understands the context to it; "win or get out"... to outright guarantee his job safety in the midst of the franchise's worst losing streak... I mean it really does make you question his competence for the role.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 3, 2016 14:27:40 GMT -5
Grin and bear it. Not so easy to tank and go through a losing season, huh? I ask you to visualize that it's June 1st and we have a top 5 pick, maybe even a top 3. This is where you can get an elite scorer. Unless you're dealing with a brain dead Boston GM under pressure, it's extremely unlikely to get one through a trade. As mentioned above and what's been masked for 2 and a half years, Therrien is totally incapable of handling an NHL team, so the first order of business is to package him off. Now you have the opportunity to replace him with a real coach, one who will implement an effective set of systems, who will use analytics instead of shelving them, who will slot Galchenyuk at centre, manage Markov's minutes and organize an effective power play. One who values meritocracy instead of mouthing it. You can't underestimate the effect this one change will make. Without adding anyone, it will transform the team, with Price, from a bottom 5 team to a top 5 team and make them true contenders for the Cup. If Bergevin is then able to acquire one more top 6 guy, even if they're barely a 20 goal scorer, we become dangerous, to even the elite teams. We'll spend far less time in our end, we'll enter the other team's zone with speed and possession, we'll create more scoring chances, we'll punish teams for taking penalties against us, we'll score a lot and allow fewer and when none of that works, Carey can bail us out. He just won't have to do it game after game. The swoon has been sudden, but it has been inevitable. If you look back on posts from the 2013/14 season: Pour lancer le debat... Gorges - Subban Markov - Emelin Murray - Weaver With Bouillon getting the first call over Tinordi. Not saying it's right, but I can see the logic. There are high expectations on the Habs this year, and I can see wanting to have some veterans in there to start off with, if only so as to not kill the confidence of a guy like Tinordi. Tinordi isn't as bad as Komisarek was, but I still see a little bit, a very little bit, of fragility in his ego. We can argue all we want about whether or not it is there because of Therrien, but it's there, in my opinion. Again, he's not nearly as bad as Komisarek was (who even going back to his Michigan days I thought had it), but I don't want him to be the goat on a Game 1 loss because the nerves got to him. It's one thing to come in and replace a player, it's another to be considered "the man" right from the get-go. Expectations are different. I would have played Tinordi a LOT more during the season so that this wouldn't have been an issue, but it is what it is. That ship has sailed. So I think that he gets the bench to start the series, and Therrien goes with the vets. If Galchy is given 2nd line minutes at a minimum and time on the PP, he will create his own line. He'll make anyone on his line better. The key is giving him the ice time, especially on the PP. I'm not even sure this is the line-up that comes to training camp or what surprises there will be in training camp, so I'm not going to speculate on potential lines as that can change fairly quickly. It all depends on how Therrien handles it. Let's see if he can turn my opinion around by playing galchy more and sticking with one of the defense kids even when they make mistakes. Coach them through it, Mike. That's what you're paid to do. ...as I said I feel Vanek was dismissed because Therrien doesn't want him. Bergevin sure isn't going to sign another high price UFA for his coach's dog house... Well, to develop players you have to create room and that is not MT's job but rather MB's. MB went on and aquired veterans to create competition within the team and Therrien had to manage everyone's play time for the best on the ice and in the room. Now, if Tinordi, Beaulieu or both had demonstrated they were clearly above Bouillon and Murray MB should have made room on the roster. I don't think any of the two rookies CLEARLY demonstrated that they were a better option on the short term. Yes they've shown flashes suggesting they would eventually get there but right in the middle of the season when each and every point is crucial for the team making the playoff I can certainly understand why management is hesitant to move veterans in order to "develop" rookies. "Is your opinion any different today after Tinordi's asset value was wasted?"And as for the comments MT made on 24CH about the team being a "grinding" team, I wouldn't put too much weight into that. Clearly it was an attempt at waking up the players and making them more engaged in one on one battles. We can all argue with the words being used but its hard to argue with the results. At the end of the day the team reached the conference final and could have very well gone further if Price didn't get injured. Like it or not, MT is part of the management team and as such is entitled to some credit. The fact that the team can count on a world class goaltender doesn't remove any credit from him. Was credit taken away from Babcock for having the best defensemen of his generation and one of the top two way forward of his generation when winning the cup with the Wings? I don't think so. At the end of the day, I agree that some criticism of MT may be warranted. However, I don't buy into the "he is a terrible coach" argument. His record shows otherwise and now that Bylsma got fired after failing to advance in the playoffs since their Cup, people may realize that MT probably had something to do with the Cup the Penguins win. After that year, the Pens didn't even come close to repeating and that is despite having arguably 2 of the top 5 centremen in the NHL that would be considered "franchise" player on all NHL rosters. I didn't spend a lot of time finding posts, but the general thrust is there... after Therrien's 1st season. He counts on his vets to the exclusion of developing his youngsters. His teams finished high in the standings so he gets credit for it. It doesn't matter that his team can count on a world class goaltender, which we now know is, unfortunately, the wrong impression. He prefers grinding teams. He has a difficult time with skill players. Yes, this year has been very educational regarding Michel Therrien's coaching. It appears the problems are foundational and have been there for a long time. Carey Price Compound W'd a lot of warts. There's some criticism of Bergevin, but after he picked up Vanek, that toned down somewhat. Anyway, my point is that we are primed for a huge bounce back year next season. A key point, though, is letting Therrien make a mash of this year's team to maximize the quality of the drafted player we pick. Bite your tongue, close your eyes, grit your teeth and hold on for the insults and and grief we're going to get from the trolls of the world. We'll get them back next year.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 3, 2016 14:53:28 GMT -5
17, very romantic picture you paint in these trying times. But I'd feel better if I knew MT is to be fired. Not so sure at this point.
But more importantly. a top draft pick in 2016 is going to do little to improve our problems over the next few years, even assuming the kid is not ruined by management. By the time the kid became an impact our current impact players will be on the down slope, if still with us. My view is that if we get a top pick, it should be traded for an elite scoring forward, preferably a centre. Throw in Pleks or DD and then I might have some solace from this year.
|
|
|
Post by UberCranky on Feb 3, 2016 14:59:19 GMT -5
Jacques Martin was fired in 2011, when our club was 13-12-7. Randy Cunneyworth was our coach, there were fans protesting at the Bell Centre. Just listened to a clip on TSN690. Cunneyworth went 18-23-9. Our final record: 31-35-16. It should be noted that incoming new GM, Bergevin let Cunneyworth remain as asst. coach. It was Therrien who fired him on June 6th. 5-19-1 and Therrien is safe. Marinaro's beside himself that the Habs didn't even entertain going after Babcock last year. And it's not just hindsight....he was always a proponent of that move. The MT extension was probably the most out of nowhere move by this GM. You don't extend a coach who has won 0 Cups, 0 Jack Adams awards, and has absolutely no value to any other team a year before you have to. It's complete lunacy. That alone should be the nail that seals Bergy's coffin. It's just so mind numbingly dumb, and made no sense from any side you look at it. MB wants MThead in the foxhole with him? Fine. Toss in a granade and take both of them out. In ANY business when a GM puts a colleague ahead of the business and protects him no matter how bad, it's time to let them both get hit by the door.
|
|
|
Post by UberCranky on Feb 3, 2016 15:03:30 GMT -5
... how about we change the freakin' system? MT may be safe til the end of the year...but, in reality, he's quit coaching already..... Michel Therrien doesn't have to change anything up and he doesn't have to resign ... he has his GM's endorsement until the end of the season ... was listening to TSN690 about an hour ago and Tony Marinaro was just teeing off on Therrien ... again ... I've tried to stay off the fire-MT-groupthink-bandwagon, but I can't now ... I honestly believe he is the first and, possibly, the biggest problem the team has right now ... this is a guy who made his bones on TV by telling the world what was wrong with the Habs ... well, he's the coach of one of the worst Habs teams in recent memory and the shoe is on the other foot now ... moreover, I think it's hard to accurately evaluate what the team needs when you're losing every game ... to Marc Bergevin I'd say, it won't matter how much high-end talent you bring in ... under Therrien/ Lefebvre, they'll be converted into grinding players ... [/rant] Cheers. Join the drk side! No team goes from the best to the worst without a systemic problem. The guys quit on MThead in the "subtle"ways that makes between losing and winning. A board battle here, a non blocked shot there....and here we sre. MThead is two months past "gone bad" date......and BargainBin failure to act requires equivalent action..
|
|
|
Post by franko on Feb 3, 2016 15:52:49 GMT -5
Seriously, it is in all honestly one of the most boneheaded things I think a GM has said. It's called a vote of confidence for a reason... everyone understands the context to it; "win or get out"... to outright guarantee his job safety in the midst of the franchise's worst losing streak... I mean it really does make you question his competence for the role. the only sense I can make out of it is that he knows the season is over, so why not ride with the one who is leading the team to the bottom of the standings and getting one of those picks that BLNY keeps mentioning by name. then let MT ride out with his retirement contract (fired April 10), have someone in place for April 11, and move on with someone who actually has a clue for next year. as someone who agrees with me and is therefore incredibly intelligent says, Grin and bear it . . . we are primed for a huge bounce back year next season. A key point, though, is letting Therrien make a mash of this year's team to maximize the quality of the drafted player we pick. Bite your tongue, close your eyes, grit your teeth and hold on for the insults and and grief we're going to get from the trolls of the world. We'll get them back next year.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 3, 2016 15:56:23 GMT -5
The MT extension was probably the most out of nowhere move by this GM. You don't extend a coach who has won 0 Cups, 0 Jack Adams awards, and has absolutely no value to any other team a year before you have to. It's complete lunacy. That alone should be the nail that seals Bergy's coffin. It's just so mind numbingly dumb, and made no sense from any side you look at it. MB wants MThead in the foxhole with him? Fine. Toss in a granade and take both of them out. In ANY business when a GM puts a colleague ahead of the business and protects him no matter how bad, it's time to let them both get hit by the door. I always thought that the guy i want in the foxhole with me is the guy who when he knows he's a goner is going to throw himself on the hand grenade to give me a chance to survive. Apparently MT (and MB) seem to think of the foxhole as Jonestown and they'll all go down together drinking the kool-aid. I'm good with that. But these cults always want to cause as many casualties as possible on their way out. I'm not good with that. Molson better get busy!
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 3, 2016 16:00:03 GMT -5
I think Berg wrote this year off before his famous speech. As everyone's pointed out, if Therrien needed any further confirmation to keep doing what he's doing, that was it. Perfect subterfuge by Berg. Course, we're still not happy with Berg for simply rotating the bottom 6 guys, but this is a tactic to get what is so hard to find...an elite centre. He'd just better follow through on the second part of this strategy.
|
|
|
Post by UberCranky on Feb 3, 2016 19:43:49 GMT -5
I think Berg wrote this year off before his famous speech. As everyone's pointed out, if Therrien needed any further confirmation to keep doing what he's doing, that was it. Perfect subterfuge by Berg. Course, we're still not happy with Berg for simply rotating the bottom 6 guys, but this is a tactic to get what is so hard to find...an elite centre. He'd just better follow through on the second part of this strategy. Or not. It's Bergeron first go at GM and his thinking could be completely flawed. He may actually think that he's building team loyalty or accomplishing something by sticking with his buddy. In the real world of management, you don't get to be a GM or CEO without a lot of learning experience....and mistakes. Unless of course you are the bosses son OR you get into that position because thd pool is artificially limited. Which of course in this case, it is. I've seen failure in daddy boys and budflies put in a position of senior authority. In one case, daddy boy took me for $40k. Every second decision was flawed and when i tried to help him ($500k year customer) i got the eff'of. Even tried to take over the day to day to help him through the slide for FREE just to keep them alive, after all, i don't have much of a company if my customers are dropping like flies. In the end, I lost a profitable customer....and he's bouncing from job to job. What is common with Berg? The same flawed thinking that what worked yesterday should work today....and that things will work out themselves with bargain basement tweaks. That one "new design" and that 20% faster machine and firing a few people....is not going to change much in a 300 employee factory which is still working with 1950s method and mentality. Nor trading/signing reclamation projects and sticking with obvious flawed coaching. In Berg case, you would think that Mol$on is a step away, or maybe not. I don't know how much senior experience Mol$on has so it may be the blind leading the blind. No real world, straight up senior management would let their product rot this badly.
|
|
|
Post by HabSolute on Feb 4, 2016 11:20:05 GMT -5
I am curious to know what everyone thinks about the "coach must speak French" thing .....
I keep hearing the argument on the radio. Everyone has been using it for years....
But is it still really valid ? Would Habs fan really cared if Babcock, Hitchcock, or any other experienced proven Anglophone coach would join the Habs ?
I am French Canadian and frankly, the coach could talk Russian for all I care.... OK, I moved to Ontario many years ago so maybe I am not in touch anymore with the French Canadian opinion. But I still have brothers in Montreal, they don't care. many friends, they don't care..... In fact. most I know would say the opposite, that it is limiting us....
So I wonder, is the argument still valid or is it just used loosely by the media when things go south....like....NOW ?
Maybe ONE or two of the assistant coach would be enough ?
Every single reporters are bilingual anyways and will translate for their paper, site, blog etc....
Everyone LOVES Carey Price..... He doesn't do interviews in French and we ALL love him. If you don't understand English, the interview is translated within seconds on Twitter.
Would there really be a rebellion in Montreal if the coach didn't speak French ? or would it just be a few Francophone media outlet that would stir the pot ?
Curious what you guys think ! Especially those that live in Montreal
|
|
|
Post by CentreHice on Feb 4, 2016 11:42:07 GMT -5
I am curious to know what everyone thinks about the "coach must speak French" thing ..... I keep hearing the argument on the radio. Everyone has been using it for years.... But is it still really valid ? Would Habs fan really cared if Babcock, Hitchcock, or any other experienced proven Anglophone coach would join the Habs ? I am French Canadian and frankly, the coach could talk Russian for all I care.... OK, I moved to Ontario many years ago so maybe I am not in touch anymore with the French Canadian opinion. But I still have brothers in Montreal, they don't care. many friends, they don't care..... In fact. most I know would say the opposite, that it is limiting us.... So I wonder, is the argument still valid or is it just used loosely by the media when things go south....like....NOW ? Maybe ONE or two of the assistant coach would be enough ? Every single reporters are bilingual anyways and will translate for their paper, site, blog etc.... Everyone LOVES Carey Price..... He doesn't do interviews in French and we ALL love him. If you don't understand English, the interview is translated within seconds on Twitter. Would there really be a rebellion in Montreal if the coach didn't speak French ? or would it just be a few Francophone media outlet that would stir the pot ? Curious what you guys think ! Especially those that live in Montreal My mother is full French-Canadian on both sides....I have a deep respect for the heritage and culture. I have relatives with surnames such as: Caron, Antaya, Pinsonneault, Bechard, Provost, etc. Dave and Sam Gagner are my cousins.... I understand the need for the team to relate to the francophone community. The short answer to your, "Is it still valid?" question is "Yes." Geoff Molson made it clear during Randy Cunneyworth's time behind the bench. And Cunneyworth didn't have a record nearly this poor, with a much less-talented lineup. Our second line was Pleks with Blunden and Leblanc. Molson faced beer boycotts from nationalist groups and media backlash for having Cunneyworth coaching the team. It should also be noted that Cunneyworth tried to converse in French....took lessons, IIRC. He was treated very disrespectfully. IMO, (and I've expressed it for a few years now) it's well-past time to go for the BCA and hire an interpreter, if necessary....and boycotts and media pressure be damned. Winning a Cup is the universal language of hockey. And I truly believe that Therrien wouldn't have had this much leeway had he been an unilingual anglophone....let alone get a vote of confidence until the end of the season. If the BCA is bilingual a la Scotty Bowman....perfect! But if he's an anglophone and willing to learn French while an interpreter fills the gaps....the organization would be foolish to not explore that opportunity. Therrien isn't failing because he's bilingual.....
|
|
|
Post by blny on Feb 4, 2016 13:55:32 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by folatre on Feb 4, 2016 22:26:39 GMT -5
For me the now frequent freelancing in the defensive zone is sign the guys mentally checked out. Coaching, hello...
Also how is missing Price going to explain having league's 30th ranked power play over nine weeks? Is not this glaring indictment of coaching?
To continue with Desharnais and Plekanec 1-2 down the middle at this stage of the debacle is detrimental to club. Therrien ego makes 30 more games of him controlling decisions about roles, responsibilities, and minutes of players on the roster a scary proposition.
|
|
|
Post by habsorbed on Feb 5, 2016 1:57:11 GMT -5
For me the now frequent freelancing in the defensive zone is sign the guys mentally checked out. Coaching, hello... Also how is missing Price going to explain having league's 30th ranked power play over nine weeks? Is not this glaring indictment of coaching? To continue with Desharnais and Plekanec 1-2 down the middle at this stage of the debacle is detrimental to club. Therrien ego makes 30 more games of him controlling decisions about roles, responsibilities, and minutes of players on the roster a scary proposition. Yup. Just when you think it can't get any worse. MT will figure out a way to do more harm. Keeping him around is an embarrassment and very harmful. And wouldn't it be helpful for a different perspective to see what an interim coach could do, how players react and what that coach thought. I don't see any benefit to keeping loser MT in the fold.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Feb 5, 2016 13:02:36 GMT -5
Rumors that the HABS are actively shopping for a coach. For those who blame Therrien for everything, I hope you get your scapegoat sacrificed sooner rather than later and that the next, hopefully non-French coach, will take this great bunch of character players right to the Stanley cup next year.
|
|
|
Post by seventeen on Feb 5, 2016 13:09:21 GMT -5
Doc, it doesn't matter to me if we pick a Swedish, Russian or Slovenian coach. If he takes us to the Stanley Cup and can speak French and English, I'm good with it.
|
|
|
Post by blny on Feb 5, 2016 13:13:06 GMT -5
Doc, it doesn't matter to me if we pick a Swedish, Russian or Slovenian coach. If he takes us to the Stanley Cup and can speak French and English, I'm good with it. That's all fans really care about. I firmly believe the language scenario is something driven by the media and perpetuated by the club. Crawford, Robinson, Ducharme. I don't want to see some massive turn around this season though. I want to take advantage of our situation and draft as high as possible. At this point, I think I'd be more disappointed making the playoffs.
|
|