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Post by blny on Jan 22, 2016 18:31:41 GMT -5
In reading all the posts/threads about firing Therrien, what should Bergevin and Molson do, I've been mulling about what I'd do to retool the team. I've seen some posts eluding to the fact it's on the mind of some other members as well. To that end, I thought it would be a good idea to create a thread about it. I know it's early, but it's fresh in my mind. Mods, it's my hope that we can 'sticky' this to keep it on the first page so that members can add their thoughts and perhaps their own ideas of a similar vein. This isn’t a short read, but it is what I would do. I realize some may think it unrealistic. Separated, I don't think each move is. Together? Maybe it's unprecedented, but imo it's doable. Dare I say it, but if Pollock were around, I think these are the sort of things he would do. The biggest "if" is part of the acquisitions section. So, have at it. Share ideas, share your own plan to turn things around. Step one: Trim fat with three trades before the deadline. - A hypothetical trade with merit, outlined on hfboards, has Montreal doing a deal with Columbus. Desharnais, Gilbert (provided he’s healthy) and a 3rd round pick for Hartnell and Boll. I’d try and tweak it now. As good as Boll might be for our grit, he’s pricey with another year at $1.7 million. I’d remove him and Gilbert from the deal. Gilbert is gone at the end of the year, so it’s no big deal. Columbus gets a center who can play behind Dubinsky/Jenner, and can be sheltered by any number of their big wingers. They get the cheaper contract. They get a lot less term. They get younger. They get a pick which will likely be a high third. Montreal gets a proven scorer with size still producing. He’s aging, and has 3 more years left. There’s risk for Montreal, but he slots in on the second line very well. The Jackets might like a little more in terms of futures, and I would budge to a second if needed. Hartnell is a bigger Gallagher and should help the goal scoring a lot.Desharnais and a 2016 3rd rounder for Hartnell.
- Markov needs to go. Package him in a deal to Washington that’s similar to the one the Rangers did for Yandle. Washington is all in. Orpik is on ltir. They’ve got the space for this year anyway. I mentioned this move in another thread that I think could work. The Yandle deal had an extra pick going to Arizona because they retained half the salary. Not interested in that. It also swapped minor league defenders that don’t have a realistic chance at much time in the NHL given their age. Duclair went to Arizona, and Vrana is a similar prospect in size, skill, ability, and scouting analysis. Washington gets a veteran d man who doesn’t have to play first pair minutes, can augment their already potent power play and lets him play with a good friend in Ovi. Montreal cleans the slate, cuts $5.75 million from payroll and gets a quality prospect and another first round pick. If Washington isn’t interested, call Dallas. They could use an upgrade after Klingberg. Markov, Bartley, 3rd 2017 for Ness, Vrana, first in 2016.
- Pawn Plekanec to a team looking for depth at center. He’s got a modified NTC this year. It’s an issue. Try and get Vermette-like return. That was a first and a prospect. It’s unlikely with a 2 year commitment to him, but he’s still a strong 2 way player. Honestly, I’ll take anything. Clearing the space is paramount.
Step two: the draftAim for as high a lottery pick as possible. Hope for top 3. Either Laine or Puljujarvi would be a great get for the rw. Both 6'3 plus and 200lbs. They've very good skaters and fast. Both can snipe. They're both playing in the Finnish Elite League as 17 year olds and doing well. IMO, they'll make the NHL next year. Use remaining picks as deemed appropriate. With the trades at the deadline and the extra second we already have, it would shape up to be a busy day for the draft team. Step three: Acquisitions- With Plekanec and Desharnais gone, it forces two things. One, it forces Galchenyuk into a prominent offensive role. Two, it means Bergevin needs to sign a #1 center. Who? Stamkos. Removing Plekanec, Markov, and Desharnais, while adding Hartnell frees up a total cap amount of $10.5 million. Signing him as a UFA means you can’t do 8 years. To compensate for the 7 year max, it’s going to take a big commitment. Given the tax situation, even more so. 7 years and $11 million per year. Bonuses don’t seem to count, so make it whatever you want. If it can be worked to bring the annual hit down, great. Yes, it's a bold move. Time for being 'safe' is over. Go out, and get him. Make it impossible for him to say no.
- With Markov gone, there’s a gaping hole on the left side. Beaulieu, Emelin and Barberio won’t cut it. There are a number of reasonably good left side defenders who will potentially be available this summer. My target would be Braydon Coburn. Size, very good mobility, can play both sides, and while not an intensely physical player he holds his own. He’s responsible. His expiring contract is for $4.5 million a year with a modified NTC. He will be 31 in February. I’d offer 4 years and $20 million and the same modified NTC. That takes him to 35 and we’re not committed beyond it.
Our roster next year would look something like: Pacioretty-Stamkos-Gallagher Hartnell-Galchenyuk-Laine De La Rose-Eller-Weise Smith-Pelly-Mitchell-Flynn Coburn-Subban Emelin-Petry Beaulieu-Pateryn Price-Condon That roster represents a commitment of $69.8 million. The cap was projected to go to $74 million, but with the Canadian dollar tanking I think it will remain roughly the same. That means the club will have somewhere between $1-2 million in space. They can use some of that for either a 7th dman or a 13th forward. There's not much offense in that bottom six, but there should be enough in the top 6 that it isn't an issue. Step four: coaching staff overhaul.If you don’t have cup winners on the bench, having a couple behind the bench is a good place to start. I think the notion of Boucher has been beaten to death. I’m going in another direction. Marc Crawford. Cup winner with Colorado, knows how to work with skilled players, speaks French(!); all points in his favor. He’s my new head coach. Obviously it’s up to him who his assistants are, but I’d be lobby hard for Robinson. Get a Norris winner, cup winner as a player, and cup winner as a coach in there. He doesn’t want the hc job, so he’s no threat. He speaks French. For my second assistant, I’d hire Dominique Ducharme. Young, successful, and in touch with the modern young player; Ducharme is ready for his next challenge. He’s going to get snapped up by someone at some point. Guess what, he speaks French.
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Post by mikeg on Jan 22, 2016 19:00:14 GMT -5
Great post and I agree with all of it! However, Mcguire on 690 on Thursday said that he thinks most GMs are preparing for the cap to go down bc of the situation with CDN dollar, I don't know what that means for a guy like Stamkos but it's gotta be tough to figure out your cap situation if you don't know if it's going up or down.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 22, 2016 19:46:59 GMT -5
I spent 45 minutes laying out aspects of your plan and then some %$#&^% crappy button erased it all. Unrecoverable. I'm not doing it again. As mentioned above, though, the key is Stamkos. You get him, you change the coaches and you get a huge improvement. The other stuff is doable with variations, but you should end up with a contending team that can score and defend. Gotta pay Stamkos though and get PK to work on him big time.
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Post by folatre on Jan 22, 2016 19:53:08 GMT -5
You say many things that make sense and you add a few that are surely too hopeful (nothing wrong with hope in these dark times).
But trying to be at least a little optimistic, the next month should be obvious window to trade one small "offensive" centre. Plekanec is probably not going anywhere unless a bad contract comes back. So Desharnais is probably the more viable choice. Eller goes back to his natural position, 3rd line centre. It simply seems inconceivable that rational decision making allows 2016-17 to start with the absurdity that Plekanec and Desharnais both still with the club.
The 29.5 million annual USD d-corps has been disappointing and contributes to the roster imbalance the team suffer under Bergevin's guidance. For me there is a market for Gilbert and Markov at the deadline.
Unfortunately, Bergevin vision is basically the current group, coaches included, plus superman in net.
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 22, 2016 20:10:22 GMT -5
Great read, blny.
Appreciate the time, thought, and knowledge that went into your plan.
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Post by blny on Jan 23, 2016 12:22:11 GMT -5
Thanks folks.
17, would enjoy seeing what you'd typed up. I did mine in word, then brought over.
When I mentioned not including Gilbert in the Columbus deal that was not to say we shouldn't move him. I agree, if he's healthy at the deadline, he should be moved. Veteran 3rd pair guy, mobile, with some size; lots of teams will be looking for depth. If Dallas isn't interested in Markov, they may be interested in Gilbert. He could likely play top 4 for them given their lack of depth at the position.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 23, 2016 15:59:43 GMT -5
I tried putting together my previous thoughts as closely as I could remember. Here we go: 1) Trim fat before deadline – Gilbert, DD, and a 3rd rounder for Hartnell and Boll. The bones of a deal are here, but I’m very skeptical that anyone would be interested in DD, even if Berg picked up some of his salary. Gilbert is a pending UFA, so to a non contending team, there isn’t much attraction. Might as well wait until July 1 and offer him a deal. I’m more likely to think that the deal would be Plekanec for Hartnell even up. Both are 33, Pleks is more expensive at $6MM per vs $4.75 MM per, but Hartnell’s deal is for a year longer, so $12MM vs $14.25MM for the total contracts. I think that evens it up and the talent for talent is pretty close. Hartnell’s a better scorer with more grit, but Pleks is a centre and a good defensive one, so can slot into the second or third spot for Columbus. If there are NMC clauses, then this may be an issue. Don’t think Pleks would like playing for Tortorella, but not my problem. The ramifications of this deal are that we are losing a decent centre, instead of moving a soon to be UFA and a centre we don’t need. I think DD has become very difficult to trade. One can tolerate $3.5MM for a defensively weak player guy getting 50-60 points a year. He’s on pace now for 40 and only 4 of those in that past 20 odd games, which is more like a 20 point pace. He doesn’t balance that off with any defensive abilities and in fact will probably be one of the worst defensive players on any team picking him up. How to you move a player like that? He’s a buyout candidate in my mind. So, if you really want Hartnell (good scorer over a long time, still keeping the pace up, but getting to that age where you can fall off a cliff), then it will take a similar sort of player, like Pleks. Now, if you do that and feel that Desharnais can’t make next year’s team, then you’re left with Eller, Chuck and Mitchell/Flynn at centre, with Hudon and McCarron in the wings. That’s not a line-up I’d want to enter the season with and you address it later. Markov - This may work, if a team like Washington has some defense injuries toward the trade deadline and Andrei is willing to go to there. Ovechkin helps, Trotz helps and the fact they’re probably the #1 seed for the Cup also helps. Markov’s only got one more year after this one, but he’s carrying a pretty good CAP hit. The Caps are at $51MM right now according to the possibly inaccurate hockeybuzz.com website, so that may not be a problem. So let’s say Markov agrees. What can you get in return? A late first round pick might be possible, or even a first rounder in 17 or 18 might be available. You don’t want any players off their roster, but Vrana is a possibility. 6 points in 7 games in the AHL this year. Not big at 5’ 11” 190 lbs (Plek’s size) and I don’t know much else about him. Ilya Samsonov (goalie) maybe? 2) The draft. If you can move the above bodies, we should be able to keep our downward momentum toward a top choice. The remaining players may not like it (who would?), but it’s key to tank without looking like you’re tanking. 3) Here is the key part to your whole plan. Sign Stamkos. First, we have to gamble that he’s ticked off enough with Tampa that he won’t re-sign there. The Lightning have been on a roll lately, which isn’t good as it might encourage SS to re-sign. Then you have to gamble that he’ll seriously consider Montreal despite the tax situation. Florida and Texas teams can offer about 25% less and still put the same amount in his pocket. PK’s a friend though and we can overpay on Stamkos. Move DD somehow or mitigate his contract CAP, move Markov and Pleks, don’t re-sign Gilbert for anything over $1.5MM and that may be enough. The centre situation suddenly resolves itself. You have a #1 centre; you have a scorer; you can slot Chuck on the 2nd line with a scorer who causes havoc in front of the net (Hartnell) and our scoring woes disappear in the swoosh of a pen. What if he doesn’t sign with us? What is Plan B? You can’t go into the season with Chuck at #1, Eller at #2 and pray that Hudon or McCarron can handle #3 (though they might). On defense, I don’t think there’s as gaping a hole as you stated. Barberio, Emelin and Beaulieu aren’t the worst set of left side defenders and PK and Petry are very, very good right side ones. I think Pateryn would make an excellent 3rd pairing defenseman. Yeah, I’d like one more guy, but I’m not keen on Coburn. He’s not having a great year and he’s 30 years old, once again entering that age where non-elite players sometimes plummet. Seven points in 47 games also doesn’t thrill me. he’s never been a big scorer, but his age scares me. If he signs for a reasonable figure, he’d be ok, but it can’t be anywhere near the $4.5MM he’s earning this year. And you’d get him for no compensation since his contract expires by July 1. But there could be some UFA guys who can be had for a reasonable amount. We’re not looking for top end defensemen. Maybe Bartley (rolls over laughing) 4) Coaching staff overhaul. The easiest decision of all in your plan. If the Therrien crew are still around for next year, it will be very hard to follow and cheer for the Habs. To provide an example, consider the Vancouver Canucks, who get a ton of derision on this board, sometimes even deservedly, but not as often as it happens. No one disputes that have a dearth of talent. They’ve played a 20 year old (Horvat) and a 19 year old (McCann) at centre all year long. They’ve used Sven Baertschi a 23 year old RW all year long and both he and Horvat have been offensive black holes until the last 3 weeks. Both have regained confidence and are scoring consistently now, but if they were on our team, they’d have been sent to St. John’s a long time ago. Dan Hamhuis has missed 20 games, Sbisa has missed 25 games and there are guys on the roster whose names you won’t recognize. Yes, they play in a weaker Division than the Habs. But I don’t think anyone would say they have anywhere near the talent Montreal has from top to bottom of the roster. They have more points than we do. We know what kind of dog’s breakfast the Leafs are this season. They have a definite plan in place to get better knowing their roster has perhaps 2 or 3 players who will still be there when the dust settles. To top it off, their goaltending has been very inconsistent. They’re only 8 points behind us with 2 games in hand. After tonight, that might be only 6 points. But they had the right idea. Get the best coach they could. At one point that was Guy Boucher, until Babcock threw his hat in the ring. The Leafs are a hugely improved team in positioning, in effort and in overall form. Because they’re well coached. Our guy? In the midst of an historical plummet, he says, “I want our young players to learn about the history of the NHL. I want players to recognize….where we’re from.” Tweeted quote of Therrien’s, today, from Chris Johnston, a Toronto reporter. ?? Michel is counting on history and tradition to solve the state of the Habs? That makes a lot more sense if you’re 15 points clear of a playoff spot and tweaking your team to ready them for the playoffs. In this environment, it sounds like Nero fiddling while Rome is burning. So yeah, overhauling the coaching staff is probably THE most important part of your plan. Even if none of the other 3 take place, installing good coaches like Robinson and a quality head coach will have us contending for the Cup, (with a healthy Price). Otherwise nothing will change and we’ll be crazy. You put a lot of thought into this plan, blny. Out of curiousity, how many of the points you laid out do you think Bergevin may actually implement?
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 23, 2016 16:32:46 GMT -5
I tried putting together my previous thoughts as closely as I could remember. Here we go: 1) Trim fat before deadline – Gilbert, DD, and a 3rd rounder for Hartnell and Boll. The bones of a deal are here, but I’m very skeptical that anyone would be interested in DD, even if Berg picked up some of his salary. Gilbert is a pending UFA, so to a non contending team, there isn’t much attraction. Might as well wait until July 1 and offer him a deal. I’m more likely to think that the deal would be Plekanec for Hartnell even up. Both are 33, Pleks is more expensive at $6MM per vs $4.75 MM per, but Hartnell’s deal is for a year longer, so $12MM vs $14.25MM for the total contracts. I think that evens it up and the talent for talent is pretty close. Hartnell’s a better scorer with more grit, but Pleks is a centre and a good defensive one, so can slot into the second or third spot for Columbus. If there are NMC clauses, then this may be an issue. Don’t think Pleks would like playing for Tortorella, but not my problem. The ramifications of this deal are that we are losing a decent centre, instead of moving a soon to be UFA and a centre we don’t need. I think DD has become very difficult to trade. One can tolerate $3.5MM for a defensively weak player guy getting 50-60 points a year. He’s on pace now for 40 and only 4 of those in that past 20 odd games, which is more like a 20 point pace. He doesn’t balance that off with any defensive abilities and in fact will probably be one of the worst defensive players on any team picking him up. How to you move a player like that? He’s a buyout candidate in my mind. So, if you really want Hartnell (good scorer over a long time, still keeping the pace up, but getting to that age where you can fall off a cliff), then it will take a similar sort of player, like Pleks. Now, if you do that and feel that Desharnais can’t make next year’s team, then you’re left with Eller, Chuck and Mitchell/Flynn at centre, with Hudon and McCarron in the wings. That’s not a line-up I’d want to enter the season with and you address it later. Markov - This may work, if a team like Washington has some defense injuries toward the trade deadline and Andrei is willing to go to there. Ovechkin helps, Trotz helps and the fact they’re probably the #1 seed for the Cup also helps. Markov’s only got one more year after this one, but he’s carrying a pretty good CAP hit. The Caps are at $51MM right now according to the possibly inaccurate hockeybuzz.com website, so that may not be a problem. So let’s say Markov agrees. What can you get in return? A late first round pick might be possible, or even a first rounder in 17 or 18 might be available. You don’t want any players off their roster, but Vrana is a possibility. 6 points in 7 games in the AHL this year. Not big at 5’ 11” 190 lbs (Plek’s size) and I don’t know much else about him. Ilya Samsonov (goalie) maybe? 2) The draft. If you can move the above bodies, we should be able to keep our downward momentum toward a top choice. The remaining players may not like it (who would?), but it’s key to tank without looking like you’re tanking. 3) Here is the key part to your whole plan. Sign Stamkos. First, we have to gamble that he’s ticked off enough with Tampa that he won’t re-sign there. The Lightning have been on a roll lately, which isn’t good as it might encourage SS to re-sign. Then you have to gamble that he’ll seriously consider Montreal despite the tax situation. Florida and Texas teams can offer about 25% less and still put the same amount in his pocket. PK’s a friend though and we can overpay on Stamkos. Move DD somehow or mitigate his contract CAP, move Markov and Pleks, don’t re-sign Gilbert for anything over $1.5MM and that may be enough. The centre situation suddenly resolves itself. You have a #1 centre; you have a scorer; you can slot Chuck on the 2nd line with a scorer who causes havoc in front of the net (Hartnell) and our scoring woes disappear in the swoosh of a pen. What if he doesn’t sign with us? What is Plan B? You can’t go into the season with Chuck at #1, Eller at #2 and pray that Hudon or McCarron can handle #3 (though they might). On defense, I don’t think there’s as gaping a hole as you stated. Barberio, Emelin and Beaulieu aren’t the worst set of left side defenders and PK and Petry are very, very good right side ones. I think Pateryn would make an excellent 3rd pairing defenseman. Yeah, I’d like one more guy, but I’m not keen on Coburn. He’s not having a great year and he’s 30 years old, once again entering that age where non-elite players sometimes plummet. Seven points in 47 games also doesn’t thrill me. he’s never been a big scorer, but his age scares me. If he signs for a reasonable figure, he’d be ok, but it can’t be anywhere near the $4.5MM he’s earning this year. And you’d get him for no compensation since his contract expires by July 1. But there could be some UFA guys who can be had for a reasonable amount. We’re not looking for top end defensemen. Maybe Bartley (rolls over laughing) 4) Coaching staff overhaul. The easiest decision of all in your plan. If the Therrien crew are still around for next year, it will be very hard to follow and cheer for the Habs. To provide an example, consider the Vancouver Canucks, who get a ton of derision on this board, sometimes even deservedly, but not as often as it happens. No one disputes that have a dearth of talent. They’ve played a 20 year old (Horvat) and a 19 year old (McCann) at centre all year long. They’ve used Sven Baertschi a 23 year old RW all year long and both he and Horvat have been offensive black holes until the last 3 weeks. Both have regained confidence and are scoring consistently now, but if they were on our team, they’d have been sent to St. John’s a long time ago. Dan Hamhuis has missed 20 games, Sbisa has missed 25 games and there are guys on the roster whose names you won’t recognize. Yes, they play in a weaker Division than the Habs. But I don’t think anyone would say they have anywhere near the talent Montreal has from top to bottom of the roster. They have more points than we do. We know what kind of dog’s breakfast the Leafs are this season. They have a definite plan in place to get better knowing their roster has perhaps 2 or 3 players who will still be there when the dust settles. To top it off, their goaltending has been very inconsistent. They’re only 8 points behind us with 2 games in hand. After tonight, that might be only 6 points. But they had the right idea. Get the best coach they could. At one point that was Guy Boucher, until Babcock threw his hat in the ring. The Leafs are a hugely improved team in positioning, in effort and in overall form. Because they’re well coached. Our guy? In the midst of an historical plummet, he says, “I want our young players to learn about the history of the NHL. I want players to recognize….where we’re from.” Tweeted quote of Therrien’s, today, from Chris Johnston, a Toronto reporter. ?? Michel is counting on history and tradition to solve the state of the Habs? That makes a lot more sense if you’re 15 points clear of a playoff spot and tweaking your team to ready them for the playoffs. In this environment, it sounds like Nero fiddling while Rome is burning. So yeah, overhauling the coaching staff is probably THE most important part of your plan. Even if none of the other 3 take place, installing good coaches like Robinson and a quality head coach will have us contending for the Cup, (with a healthy Price). Otherwise nothing will change and we’ll be crazy. You put a lot of thought into this plan, blny. Out of curiousity, how many of the points you laid out do you think Bergevin may actually implement? According to generalfanager the caps will have over 5.4 mill in cap space at the deadline
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Post by blny on Jan 23, 2016 18:02:11 GMT -5
My concern about Washington's cap isn't this season. It's the subsequent. That said, it's up to them to figure that out.
17, a valid rebuttal with the Pleks for Hartnell idea. Might work. Columbus has a lot of cap space, so the extra hit for less term shouldn't be a big issue. If needed, Berg can always buy out DD. $3.5 million x .66 / 2 seasons equals $1.1725 a year for two years. Not deal, but a decent last resort.
I understand reservations with Coburn. Left side defensive options on the open market are somewhat limited. Goligoski would be another higher profile name. More offense, but not a lot more. I think Coburn is better in his end. My idea with Braydon is just to tell him to be that last man back. Cover for PK. Don't gamble. Don't get caught up ice. Cover for PK if he does. That's it. Along with his mobility, decent first pass, and size, he's a reasonable fit. He's been durable as well.
Stamkos' decision of whether or not to stay may not be based on success. Tampa is staring down the tunnel of having to sign extensions with Killorn, Nametsnikov, Kucherov, Paquette, Marchessault, Brown, and Nesterov this summer alone. The following summer they have to deal with Palat, Johnson, and Sustr. In 2018, Hedman will be a UFA. Those are a huge pile of contracts.
What parts will Berg accomplish? Hard to say. It really is more from the pov of what I would do. If anything is certain, none of us know what Bergevin will do at any time. My hope would be that he, at the very least, pawns off the three players I mention and changes the coaching staff. If he does both of those steps, the lottery pick is a lock.
Pollock knew when to add, and he knew when to subtract. He knew when the time to trade a guy was, but he wasn't afraid the right veteran at the right time (Big M). It's time for Bergevin to connect with his inner Sam Pollock.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 23, 2016 18:11:16 GMT -5
I'm not getting into fancy pie in the sky swaps .... but I'd target two players. Andrew Ladd and Klye Okposo
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Post by franko on Jan 23, 2016 18:54:32 GMT -5
Ladd, yes; Okposo, no . . .
and 17: I'm saying 0-4.
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Post by blny on Jan 23, 2016 19:15:26 GMT -5
I'm not getting into fancy pie in the sky swaps .... but I'd target two players. Andrew Ladd and Klye Okposo With almost $62 million committed to 16 players for next year, we're going to have to shed some salary before we can target them, no? Whether you spend it on Stamkos, or two forwards, that will be a good $10 million or more in salary. Some combination of Plekanec, Markov, or DD will have go.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 23, 2016 20:23:05 GMT -5
Habs can shed 6.5 million from their own UFAs
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Post by Skilly on Jan 23, 2016 21:04:00 GMT -5
I'm not getting into fancy pie in the sky swaps .... but I'd target two players. Andrew Ladd and Klye Okposo With almost $62 million committed to 16 players for next year, we're going to have to shed some salary before we can target them, no? Whether you spend it on Stamkos, or two forwards, that will be a good $10 million or more in salary. Some combination of Plekanec, Markov, or DD will have go. How about we trade Subban for Ladd and Trouba .... We actually save cap space. Uh-oh, I'm in trouble now uttering such blasphemy
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Post by blny on Jan 23, 2016 22:55:32 GMT -5
Habs can shed 6.5 million from their own UFAs Weise, Fleischmann, Byron, Gilbert, and Scrivens total $7.225 million, but if you let them go you still have to fill their spots. Weise, Flash, and Byron won't realistically be replaced by anything cheaper. Gilbert and Scrivens is a legitimate 4.55 million freed up. Regardless, you've still got $62 million committed 16 players. If you bet that the cap is $74 million next year, as was thought in the Fall, that's $12 million for as many as 7 players. Ladd makes $4.4 million this year. He isn't signing for less, even if he is 30. Okposo won't likely sign for less than $4.4 million. You're talking about $10 million for two players. We can't fill out a roster with two UFA players of that ilk without removing salary. As for Subban for Ladd and Trouba, I like Trouba quite a bit. I'm not sure he has the offensive upside that Subban has, but he's a skilled puck mover no doubt. Despite that, I personally wouldn't trade Subban for a pending UFA with a career of good secondary production and a good young pmd. But, this is a thread for people to post what they would do if they had the reigns. If that is what you would do, we'll put you on record for that.
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Post by blny on Jan 23, 2016 23:02:39 GMT -5
FWIW, Friedman is reporting that Stamkos turned down a recent offer of $8.5 million a year (presumably over 8 years).
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Post by folatre on Jan 24, 2016 0:06:48 GMT -5
Stamkos is local, of the greater Toronto area, and the Leafs surely have more cap space and a better Head Coach situation. i think Stamkos is saying goodbye to Tampa, but I doubt Montreal is part of the chase.
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Post by blny on Jan 24, 2016 0:12:39 GMT -5
Stamkos is local, of the greater Toronto area, and the Leafs surely have more cap space and a better Head Coach situation. i think Stamkos is saying goodbye to Tampa, but I doubt Montreal is part of the chase. Entirely possible. He's also very close friends with PK. Toronto has $45 million committed to ten players next year. Grabner, Matthias, Spaling, Parenteau, Boyes, Clune, and Polak are all UFA. Kadri, Leivo, Holland, Rielly, Marincin, and Corrado are RFA. There's the potential for a huge turnover.
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Post by folatre on Jan 24, 2016 0:27:02 GMT -5
That is true. If Stamkos wants to win the Cup in the next 2-3 years, Toronto is bad choice. But I am not sure the combined allure of being hometown hero, playing for great coach, and getting Toews Kane Kopitar contract makes the whole issue of whether Leafs are immediate contenders a big issue for Stamkos.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 24, 2016 2:44:07 GMT -5
With almost $62 million committed to 16 players for next year, we're going to have to shed some salary before we can target them, no? Whether you spend it on Stamkos, or two forwards, that will be a good $10 million or more in salary. Some combination of Plekanec, Markov, or DD will have go. How about we trade Subban for Ladd and Trouba .... We actually save cap space. Uh-oh, I'm in trouble now uttering such blasphemy Bergevin's not trading PK, Skilly. Ladd and Trouba may cost you as much as PK and would they give you as much? Perhaps, but you don't trade a guy like PK who is ingrained in the city as much as he is.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 24, 2016 2:51:10 GMT -5
My concern about Washington's cap isn't this season. It's the subsequent. That said, it's up to them to figure that out. 17, a valid rebuttal with the Pleks for Hartnell idea. Might work. Columbus has a lot of cap space, so the extra hit for less term shouldn't be a big issue. If needed, Berg can always buy out DD. $3.5 million x .66 / 2 seasons equals $1.1725 a year for two years. Not deal, but a decent last resort. I understand reservations with Coburn. Left side defensive options on the open market are somewhat limited. Goligoski would be another higher profile name. More offense, but not a lot more. I think Coburn is better in his end. My idea with Braydon is just to tell him to be that last man back. Cover for PK. Don't gamble. Don't get caught up ice. Cover for PK if he does. That's it. Along with his mobility, decent first pass, and size, he's a reasonable fit. He's been durable as well. Stamkos' decision of whether or not to stay may not be based on success. Tampa is staring down the tunnel of having to sign extensions with Killorn, Nametsnikov, Kucherov, Paquette, Marchessault, Brown, and Nesterov this summer alone. The following summer they have to deal with Palat, Johnson, and Sustr. In 2018, Hedman will be a UFA. Those are a huge pile of contracts. What parts will Berg accomplish? Hard to say. It really is more from the pov of what I would do. If anything is certain, none of us know what Bergevin will do at any time. My hope would be that he, at the very least, pawns off the three players I mention and changes the coaching staff. If he does both of those steps, the lottery pick is a lock. Pollock knew when to add, and he knew when to subtract. He knew when the time to trade a guy was, but he wasn't afraid the right veteran at the right time (Big M). It's time for Bergevin to connect with his inner Sam Pollock. Yup, the reason Stamkos isn't signed right now is because Yzerman is trying to manage his CAP and wants Stamkos to take a home town discount. I tried to keep the post from getting even longer than it was by not covering all aspects of the scenarios. That would be a post of BCesque proportions and I'm not in that class. It could very well be that Stamkos goes to UFA status, but then we'd be battling every other team in the league for his services. The Leafs would open up the vault and while they may have an advantage there, and with their coaching, their window of opportunity is probably further into the future than SS would like. Ours is not, so we're ok on that score. Still a lot of competition for his services and it's a bit iffy to base your plan on that one event. If it goes through, though, it's a hell of a move. I too think that moving Pleks and DD and perhaps Markov are important to change the culture and try to get that top centre. Changing the coaching group is a no brainer, but like Franko, I'm not convinced Berg will do it. He seems to have blinders on when it comes to his coaches. That wasn't much of an impressive display against the leafs tonight. That's a near AHL team and we had to go to a shootout to win. Sheesh.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 24, 2016 2:54:15 GMT -5
FWIW, Friedman is reporting that Stamkos turned down a recent offer of $8.5 million a year (presumably over 8 years). Yzerman sure knows the key to Stamkos' heart, hey? That's an insult. Sure, its a negotiation, but if Y is starting at 8.5, he's likely not going over $10 and to me that's a baseline offer that Stamkos might accept.
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Post by franko on Jan 24, 2016 8:13:45 GMT -5
That would be a post of BCesque proportions and I'm not in that class. well that's gotta be a first . . . BC (heck, anybody on the board) and class mentioned in the same sentence.
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Post by jkr on Jan 24, 2016 9:16:06 GMT -5
FWIW, Friedman is reporting that Stamkos turned down a recent offer of $8.5 million a year (presumably over 8 years). Yzerman sure knows the key to Stamkos' heart, hey? That's an insult. Sure, its a negotiation, but if Y is starting at 8.5, he's likely not going over $10 and to me that's a baseline offer that Stamkos might accept. I don't know why people assume Stamkos is leaving. I remember the Subban negotiations going badly with Subban turning down good money. It looked like he was going to arbitration and then from there - who knew? Some thought he would head for Toronto because he was born there. The hometown hero thing didn't have any allure for Lecavalier in his prime no matter how much we thought it would happen. I think it's overplayed in the media. They have the same agent. This is probably just the way Meehan does business.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 24, 2016 9:23:52 GMT -5
How about we trade Subban for Ladd and Trouba .... We actually save cap space. Uh-oh, I'm in trouble now uttering such blasphemy Bergevin's not trading PK, Skilly. Ladd and Trouba may cost you as much as PK and would they give you as much? Perhaps, but you don't trade a guy like PK who is ingrained in the city as much as he is. I know. We have three trading pieces. Price, Subban, and Galchenyuk. If we are unwilling trade any of those, then guess what, we ain't improving. (Unless we get lucky in Free Agency ... Anyone think we have a chance there?) I can't post stuff for people to shred through to show how unlikely they are, just like the scenarios in this thread. Stamkos? Riighhhhhtttt. He hates Montreal, he isn't coming to Montreal ... As Aerosmith sings "Dream On". Hartnell. Nope. Not for Desharnais. Never going to happen. But that's who I'd target. Ladd. He would be the next Bobby Smith type acquisition for the team. It's up to MB to figure out how.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 24, 2016 10:06:43 GMT -5
Habs can shed 6.5 million from their own UFAs Weise, Fleischmann, Byron, Gilbert, and Scrivens total $7.225 million, but if you let them go you still have to fill their spots. Weise, Flash, and Byron won't realistically be replaced by anything cheaper. Gilbert and Scrivens is a legitimate 4.55 million freed up. Regardless, you've still got $62 million committed 16 players. If you bet that the cap is $74 million next year, as was thought in the Fall, that's $12 million for as many as 7 players. Ladd makes $4.4 million this year. He isn't signing for less, even if he is 30. Okposo won't likely sign for less than $4.4 million. You're talking about $10 million for two players. We can't fill out a roster with two UFA players of that ilk without removing salary. As for Subban for Ladd and Trouba, I like Trouba quite a bit. I'm not sure he has the offensive upside that Subban has, but he's a skilled puck mover no doubt. Despite that, I personally wouldn't trade Subban for a pending UFA with a career of good secondary production and a good young pmd. But, this is a thread for people to post what they would do if they had the reigns. If that is what you would do, we'll put you on record for that. I think we can. Right now we have Price and Condon. I don't think there is a need to upgrade there. (7.075 million) On defense we currently have six defense signed for next year. Subban Markov Petry Beaulieu Pateryn Emelin Barberio That line-up adds 27.05 million if we give a raise to Barberio, increase his salary to 1 million. So we now have 34.125 million committed. Up front we have to decide what to do with the Plekanec/Desharnais scenario. Are we still keeping both? Do we think we need to improve down the middle? So let's look at keeping both AND trying to improve. Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher. (11.05 million ....thanks for the discount Maximillion Kolenda Pacioretty!) Now, I kinda disagree with your raises to Ladd and Okposo, but only marginally. I don't think Ladd will get more than Wheeler, and I don't think Okposo will start at his salary of 4.5 now, cause his cap hit is 2.8. So I gave then 5.5 and 4.0 respectively. Ladd - Desharnais - Okposo (that's 13 million ) Eller - Plekanec - Carr/Sherbak/McCarron - (10.5 million, whoever plays the other wing is only 1 million) >>>> EDITED Flynn - Mitchell - Byron? (That's 3.15 million, if we resign Byron at 1 million) So now this total entire lineup costs 71.8 million .... I'm well aware I haven't included a 13th forward. But I have included Ladd and Okposo without removing anyone or trading Subban ... So if we add in the 1.333 million we owe Parenteau, and the 1 million for the 13th forward (resign DSP?, hang on to DLR to get under cap?), I'm still under right at the 74 million hypothetical salary cap. I could conceivably even give Okposo the extra 500k difference we have on signing him. >>> EDITED EDIT. It should be noted, you have 62 million committed to 16 players next year. I only see 59.4 million, 60.7 if we count PA Parenteau. >>> EDITED
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Post by Skilly on Jan 24, 2016 10:36:15 GMT -5
Cap hits (59.425 million) >>>> EDITED
Goalies. (7.075 Million)
Carey Price ... 6.5 million Mike Condon .. 0.575 million
Defence. (26.15 million)
PK Subban ... 9 million Markov ......... 5.75 million Petry ............. 5.5 million Emelin .......... 4.1 million Beaulieu ....... 1.0 million Pateryn ......... 0.8 million extension
Forwards (25.2 million)
Plekanec .... 6 million >>>>>>> EDITED Pacioretty ... 4.5 million Gallagher .... 3.75 million Desharnais .. 3.5 million Eller ............. 3.5 million Galchenyuk .. 2.8 million Mitchell ......... 1.2 million Flynn ............ 0.95 million
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Post by jkr on Jan 24, 2016 10:55:34 GMT -5
Bergevin's not trading PK, Skilly. Ladd and Trouba may cost you as much as PK and would they give you as much? Perhaps, but you don't trade a guy like PK who is ingrained in the city as much as he is. I know. We have three trading pieces. Price, Subban, and Galchenyuk. If we are unwilling trade any of those, then guess what, we ain't improving. I can't post stuff for people to shred through to show how unlikely they are, just like the scenarios in this thread. Stamkos? Riighhhhhtttt. He hates Montreal, he isn't coming to Montreal ... As Aerosmith sings "Dream On". Hartnell. Nope. Not for Desharnais. Never going to happen. But that's who I'd target. Ladd. He would be the next Bobby Smith type acquisition for the team. It's up to MB to figure out how. I do not expect Stamkos to sign here either but how do you know he hates Montreal? Is he on record saying that?
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 24, 2016 11:20:43 GMT -5
What was Stamkos relationship with Boucher? If it was good and we brought in Boucher to replace MTHead... that would help.
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 24, 2016 11:24:57 GMT -5
Ladd and Okposo are very good target options. These are the type of supporting scoring players that don't wilt under pressure that the Berg needs to be adding to the mix. They also can be made to fit in Montreal's cap situation.
The real interesting option to me is to see if the Berg decides to try to move a guy like Markov at the deadline. Much is made that Washington is likely all in this year. Ovie friendship and all. From a pure selling high perspective this may be a tiny window. It would leave a gap next year, but Petry, Beau, Barberio, etc can all take on more over time. MT continues to keep Pateryn doing diddly (so much for pipe dreams of rotating Dmen).
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