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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 10:42:49 GMT -5
Michel Blanchard La Presse Michel Therrien wanted Francis Bouillon in his lineup but André Savard told him a hundred times that such a small player would never find his place in today's hockey.
And Therrien, a good company man, ended up yielding.
Michel Therrien would have liked to build his team around a couple of true warriors able to come to the aid of the small guys, but Savard repeated to him that the era of the Broad Street Bullies was over and that it was now necessary to counter size with speed.
And Therrien, a good company man, ended up yielding.
Therrien was never a fan of Patrice Brisebois. But with a four year contract and annual wages of 4,5 million, Therrien was made to say that Brisebois was to play and play a lot. Not only did Therrien yield, but in front of a curious press, he never hesitated to go to the rescue of his elegant defenseman.
"Damned if you do, damned if you don't", Therrien replied in a dry tone, when asked if the Brisebois saga were over.
When forced to play Robidas on the left side, Therrien, a good company man, yielded once again.
Last September, when Savard decided not to protect Bouillon and Robidas, Therrien objected, but, a good company man, he ended up yielding.
With the arrival of Traverse, Therrien had to play a defender who multiplied his blunders and who didn't progress. This season, after some very good games, Traverse rediscovered his bad habits, but Therrien, a good company man, did not decrease his playing time.
When Carbo took off to Dallas, André Savard replaced him with Guy Charron and Clement Jodoin.
People who know Charron say of him that he is the nicest guy in the world but that he exerts no influence on the players that he coaches. Jodoin is a hockey man and a good choice but it would have been preferable if Savard engaged an assistant who had a proven track record as an NHL player, preferably an Anglophone, a more lifelike version of Rick Green.
A Chris Nilan type, who would have been given the responsibility of rattling the cage and making things clear when the complaint against Therrien was his bad English...
When Audette and Czerkawski don't produce, it's the coach's fault.
But when the journalists started to speak about the millions paid to two players who sat on their asses in the press gallery, Savard slowed down the train and Therrien, as a good company man, made room for them.
Is there a moral to this story?
I'm sure there is one:
"It's always better to be fired for the blunders that you make rather than for those which you are ordered to commit."
If Therrien had said to Savard that as long as he was coach, Bouillon and Robidas would be in the lineup and that he didn't have anything to do with bad contracts given to such or such a player, the ex-coach of the Canadiens would today still be in the saddle.
Why?
For the one simple and good reason, my friends, that by coaching the team in his own way, the Canadiens would currently have ten points more in the standing.
Hard luck, Michel Therrien?
No, too good.
Much too good.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 10:43:36 GMT -5
How did you find the Canadiens press conference? This is between us; I frankly found it in bad taste. If I were George Gillett, I would be so ashamed... I will admit that André Savard was devastated and I want to overlook the opening minutes of his short speech - which resembled more Iroquois than French - but the remainder, for me, was hardly loftier. Twice, Savard believed it good to specify that Michel Therrien wasn't his man upon the former's arrival to the Canadiens. He also said that he had to extinguish the beginnings of a rebellion last year when he went to the dressing room and that thereafter the Canadiens finally started to play as a team, "but at some point it's necessary to stop intervening". If Savard meant that Therrien did not have the "touch" to coach this team he couldn't have chosen his words any better. Not a word of thanks. Not the least allusion to the fact that the Canadiens, last year, under Therrien, had thwarted all the experts by eliminating the Bruins, the conference champions. Only a bunch of insinuations and half-truths? "It was after the loss to the Flyers on Thursday that my decision was made", said Savard. However, thirty seconds later, Claude Julien underscored that he had learned the news Thursday afternoon and was warned to be ready. In the evening, on TVA I believe, one of the owners of the Hull Olympiques told us that Julien had got in touch with him before the Flyers' game to tell him about his hiring. As for Julien, undoubtedly too excited, he was hardly more brilliant. Instead of paying homage to Therrien, he said, "My strength is my work ethic and it's necessary to eliminate gray areas". As if Therrien had coached the Canadiens in an unmethodical way and without any plan. Let's be honest, the Canadiens PR department deserves a large zero in this case. Zero as in twelve to zero. Before the press conference, they should have "coached" Savard on the things to say and especially what not to say; and in Julien's case to keep his enthusiasm under control by showing respect for Therrien, who had just been fired. As for the comments spewed by those who already work under Julien, they hardly elevated the situation. They all insisted on the fact that Julien was a man of integrity, honest, and an excellent communicator. Therrien, a liar? My word! And what to say about our valiant Mariusz Czerkawski, a gentleman, wages of 2,7 million and author of two goals and eight assists in 26 games? "We will finally be able to all pull in the same direction. I am happy for the change", he had the baseness and indecency of saying. Czerkawski is the same one who, at the beginning of the season - poor little man - had reproached Therrien for not having even having gone to greet him on his arrival to the team. Donald Audette did not want to comment on the departure of his spiritual father. Wages of three million, record of no goals and four assists in 17 road games this season, Audette is one of the players who deliberately slacked off. Except for a handful of players, the Canadiens, if you want my opinion, are composed of dead meat. Good, now that André Savard has his man behind the bench, the excuses no longer hold weight. The Canadiens have the tenth highest payroll in the league and one thus has the right to expect to be the tenth ranked team, and not the 19th, as is the case at present. Go. Show us what you have in your bellies, Messrs, one doesn't ask any more than to find out... - translated from www.cyberpresse.ca/reseau/chroniqueurs/mblanchard/mbla_103010185239.html
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Post by AH on Jan 19, 2003 10:46:32 GMT -5
hey Al I just spent 20minutes summarizing the same article ... Yours are always better ... so can someone please shut down my thread ... Michel Blanchard is at it again ...
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Post by AH on Jan 19, 2003 10:50:16 GMT -5
Here is my summary
You have to rememeber that Blanchard and Therrien are buddies. This guy in previous articles has placed Bouillon ahead of Markov on the Habs defense depth chart ... The most interesting lines are as follows:
MT never liked Breezy and was forced to play him. So he put him out there against the opposition's top line ... without any help ... LOL
He was forced to use Robidas on the left side. When him and Bouillon were not protected in the waiver draft, MT objected. (He got upset over Robicrap and The Cube ... LOL)
He was forced to play Traverse as well once he arrived. (That is total crap because Traverse didn't play regulary for 1.5 years after his arrival. And if you absolutely HAVE to play him, why put him on the top pairing).
Charron is not made for the NHL (LOL and Therrien is). Savard should have hired someone more dynamic. Another anglophone, perhaps another Rick Green with more life ... maybe Chris Nilan ... (another Rick Green ... LOL ... the guy is next to go).
Blanchard says: Not one word of thanks to Therrien for what he did last year. (you can tell that Blanchard is taking this personally ... if they didn't thank him, then how come they are willing to give him a job in the organization).
Blanchard then goes on to point some of the discrepancies in the timings announced by Savard about the hiring of CJ and firing of MT (Who cares, he is gone). And then he also mentions things that Chow said after MT was let go .. calling him classless, etc ...
Basically, the whole gist of the article is that this is ALL Savard's fault. Therrien fought for his ideas, but always gave in because he was a company man ... WHAT BULLS**T !!! The guy was an awful coach. And if Therrien didn't have so many "friends" in the local press, the guy would have been canned a VERY long time ago.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 10:51:19 GMT -5
hey Al I just spent 20minutes summarizing the same article ... Yours are always better ... so can someone please shut down my thread ... Michel Blanchard is at it again ... LOL. Looks like we finished in a dead heat. I actually enjoy Blanchard because, although he definitely has his bias, he does provide a good counter-balance. Rather him than Tremblay.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 10:52:14 GMT -5
hey Al I just spent 20minutes summarizing the same article ... Yours are always better ... so can someone please shut down my thread ... Michel Blanchard is at it again ... You can do it yourself...just deleted it... Thanks for the summaries guys!
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 19, 2003 11:54:01 GMT -5
WOW...........that's all I can say.
Therrien is playing the "poor me, poor company man" card to the hilt. Let's overlook his gross incompetence and feel sorry for him now. Bite me MThead. Your "poor me" is not going to play well with many of us.
Savard's balls are now on the line.
There seems to be NO love lost between Therrien and Savard. Maybe after MThead failed to do his job and the boss had to come in and bash heads, maybe you should of gotten a hint?
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 12:25:21 GMT -5
WOW...........that's all I can say. Therrien is playing the "poor me, poor company man" card to the hilt. Let's overlook his gross incompetence and feel sorry for him now. Bite me MTgead. Your "poor me" is not going to play well with many of us. Savard's balls are now on the line. There seems to be NO love lost between Therrien and Savard. Maybe after MThead failed to do his job and the boss had to come in and bash heads, maybe you should of gotten a hint? Now, now, let's be fair. Blanchard is taking Therrien's side, Therrien himself has no say in this article (except for the rather droll "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" comment vis-a-vis Brisebois' ice time). I think Blanchard raises some valid points to consider re the course of events leading to Friday's announcement. Claude Julien, admirably, may seek to eliminate "gray areas", but in Life...
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 12:35:06 GMT -5
dunno if it goes here but Strachan with all kinds of praise for Julien after yesterday's game... www.canoe.ca/TorontoSports/ts.ts-01-19-0104.htmlMan the difference between us and the Laffs is simple...we have very good players...they have star players. That's why they always seem to come out on top against us..... I mean you look at the rest of that team after Sundin, Almo, Antropov, Eddie the Eagle, Kaberle and Svehla...holy cow it's not that great Wade Belak as a regular d-man? Paul Healey? Robert Reichel and Jonas Hoglund on your 2nd line? Ric Jackman as a forward? But soon...very soon..we will overpass them(at least I hope)...most of the stars I just named are over 30 and their farm system is pretty thin after Coliacovo and Boyes(who is overated).
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 13:05:36 GMT -5
Thanks Marc. Some excerpts: No matter what league you're in, when your record is 33-6-3-3, as was the case with his Hamilton Bulldogs, you're doing something right. *** There is every reason to believe that under Julien, the Canadiens will play the full 60 minutes -- 65 on some nights. And they will not lack for accountability. Julien knows some of these players, having coached them in the minors. He knows Gilmour from their time in the St. Louis Blues training camps before the cuts were made and Julien was once again dispatched to the minors. And the ones he doesn't know first-hand, he knows by reputation. As coach of the Canadiens' farm team, he stays conversant with the organization's talent pool. *** At every level, Julien has proved that he is capable of getting the most out of his players -- and when you get right down to it, isn't that the only duty of a coach? *** Most of these problems can be fixed, and Julien, as an excellent teacher, is the kind of coach who can do the fixing. Even as the game went on, these problems became less and less apparent. "We gave up only three scoring chances in the second half of the game," Julien said. *** The Canadiens are close enough to a playoff spot that there is still time for Julien to make a difference. Around the league, the smart money says that he will. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Boys, I think we (relative to recent history) have a winner.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 13:11:41 GMT -5
The ''we only gave up 3 scoring chances'' quote is awesome MT was HAPPY with 15 scoring chances per game HAPPY with it. I swear he said it.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 19, 2003 13:44:45 GMT -5
Michel Blanchard La Presse Can't let this one go, though there are one or two valid points amongst the dozen or so Blanchard whitewashes us with. Michel Therrien wanted Francis Bouillon in his lineup but André Savard told him a hundred times that such a small player would never find his place in today's hockey.I like Bouillon's heart, speed and smarts. Only problem is his height and weight are matched only by Mike Ribeiro's speed. Having said that, I'd still bring him up and sit Traverse. Michel Therrien would have liked to build his team around a couple of true warriors able to come to the aid of the small guys, but Savard repeated to him that the era of the Broad Street Bullies was over and that it was now necessary to counter size with speed.This is one of the few areas I agree with Therrien. We need two genuinely tough guys. It will make the rest of the team 20% better. I still want speed and skill, but those 2 guys don't need it. Therrien was never a fan of Patrice Brisebois. But with a four year contract and annual wages of 4,5 million, Therrien was made to say that Brisebois was to play and play a lot. Not only did Therrien yield, but in front of a curious press, he never hesitated to go to the rescue of his elegant defenseman.You certainly can't count me in with the crowd that likes Brisebois either, but there's a difference between being a good company man and being able to sleep at night knowing you've done your best. If Brisebois plays like an idiot, treat him like one. Bench him. What's AS going to do? Fire you? And look like an idiot himself in the press when it's obvious to everyone that there was a legitimate reason for the benching? When Carbo took off to Dallas, André Savard replaced him with Guy Charron and Clement Jodoin.Well, Carbo's twin brother wasn't available. Maybe AS should have hired Blanchard. Last September, when Savard decided not to protect Bouillon and Robidas, Therrien objected, but, a good company man, he ended up yielding.That bugged me too, but more because AS should have been able to trade one or both for late round draft choices. With the arrival of Traverse, Therrien had to play a defender who multiplied his blunders and who didn't progress. This season, after some very good games, Traverse rediscovered his bad habits, but Therrien, a good company man, did not decrease his playing time. This point is really stupid. Most of us were ready to guillotine Traverse, but MThead couldn't bring himself to bench him? Not only that, but he plays him more and puts him on the PP to boot? but it would have been preferable if Savard engaged an assistant who had a proven track record as an NHL player, preferably an Anglophone, a more lifelike version of Rick Green.Not sure of the point here. Is Blanchard suggesting Green is not life like? I'd like him to be more life like too. Yoo hoo. Ricky? Anyone home? When Audette and Czerkawski don't produce, it's the coach's fault. When they're used like MT used them, yes. Czerk on the PK? The Minus muffler king? "It's always better to be fired for the blunders that you make rather than for those which you are ordered to commit."
Then why didn't MT actually do what he 'wanted' to do instead of constantly deferring to AS and then getting fired for it anyway? Can't have it both ways Michel. I felt truly relieved when I heard MT had finally walked the plank. There are 2 curious things in all this that I would love to ask AS about. The first is that AS is making it sound like he had serious reservations quite a while ago. I'm assuming this is after he gave MT the 2nd contract extension. Except I don't think the timing works out right. That is curious. Secondly, why would AS use the term "and he was available" in discussing the hiring of Claude Julien? Technically, he's correct, you can't hire Jacques Martin for example, because he is unavailable. It just seems a strange comment to make. Why not just avoid it? Obviously Julien had to be available. I don't think Savard meant any malice, but I think it's another example that he really is inexperienced at managing. He's learning the hard way, like Reggie, but it won't take him 4 years to get there. I think we'll start seeing a better GM the rest of this year. This was his first coach firing and it's not easy, even when you know it's absolutely the right thing to do. Julien gives very promising first impressions.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 13:59:16 GMT -5
Can't let this one go, though there are one or two valid points amongst the dozen or so Blanchard whitewashes us with... ...I felt truly relieved when I heard MT had finally walked the plank. There are 2 curious things in all this that I would love to ask AS about. The first is that AS is making it sound like he had serious reservations quite a while ago. I'm assuming this is after he gave MT the 2nd contract extension. Except I don't think the timing works out right. That is curious. Secondly, why would AS use the term "and he was available" in discussing the hiring of Claude Julien? Technically, he's correct, you can't hire Jacques Martin for example, because he is unavailable. It just seems a strange comment to make. Why not just avoid it? Obviously Julien had to be available. I don't think Savard meant any malice, but I think it's another example that he really is inexperienced at managing. He's learning the hard way, like Reggie, but it won't take him 4 years to get there. I think we'll start seeing a better GM the rest of this year. This was his first coach firing and it's not easy, even when you know it's absolutely the right thing to do. Julien gives very promising first impressions. New to politics in Québec? ;D Did Therrien walk, or was he pushed? And that obviously is the gist of Blanchard's argument. He feels Therrien was "jobbed' by Savard, who was merely looking out after his own neck after having placed Therrien in an untenable position with his meddling and countermanding. Can we say for a fact that this argument is false? Savard may have, crocodile tears notwithstanding, expertly maneuvred Therrien's firing. However, as Blanchard points out, the heavy weight of a full kielbassa is now around André's neck with the hiring of Julien. Savard no longer has the MT safety net.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 19, 2003 14:03:17 GMT -5
Last September, when Savard decided not to protect Bouillon and Robidas, Therrien objected, but, a good company man, he ended up yielding.That bugged me too, but more because AS should have been able to trade one or both for late round draft choices. Considering Robidas was traded for a pic ... He sure could have traded him instead of losing him for nothing. Looking back with perspective it would sure have been the right move not to protect Dykhuis and protect Robidas instead who has earned a place in Dallas. It's just sad he isn't left handed ... Let's all blame Carbo who made us lose Robidas... by telling dallas management to get him for that pic.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 19, 2003 14:12:35 GMT -5
Totally agree, Mr B. On my last report card I had AS at a C-, before he hired CJ. If the coach pans out, AS is safe. Personally, even though I was really ticked at the non-hiring of Hartley, I think Julien will work out well. We'll have to see if he can match, say, Jacques Martin's consistency. His expectations are reasonable, however, and his standards seem so much better than MT's.
One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that MT really hurt us indirectly, in another way. Because of his style or lack of it, it gave Theo the opportunity to put together a superlative season. That in turn put Savard in a very difficult negotiating position, which then made Theo a tad too comfortable, which then resulted in some problems this year. That really isn't far fetched. It's not that MT caused Theo to have such a great season, more like the fact it was so obvious that the rest of the team played so poorly that the sole reason for the Habs success was Theo. If the team's play had been even slightly better, Theo would not have stood out so much and Iginla would probably have won the Hart. That would have been a better result for Savard. Theo might be earning $3.5 or $4mm instead of $5. Winning the Hart is a much bigger deal than the Vezina, so Theo would not have been as pre-occupied with non-hockey items as much, and so on and so on.
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Post by habwest on Jan 19, 2003 17:08:19 GMT -5
Unhhh, guys this is a put on right? I mean MT really didn't say those things to a reporter??
If he did the depth of his stupidity is breathtaking.
He's probably ensured that he'll never get another job in the NHL, let alone with the Habs. What GM would hire him now, knowing that MT will rat him out??
I gotta go lay down, when I start laughing I'll probably fall off my chair.
Jeeez, that's about as dumb a thing as I've ever seen or heard of.
WOW is right.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 19, 2003 17:12:04 GMT -5
What did he say ?
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Post by PTH on Jan 19, 2003 17:18:59 GMT -5
Unhhh, guys this is a put on right? I mean MT really didn't say those things to a reporter?? If he did the depth of his stupidity is breathtaking. He's probably ensured that he'll never get another job in the NHL, let alone with the Habs. What GM would hire him now, knowing that MT will rat him out?? I gotta go lay down, when I start laughing I'll probably fall off my chair. Jeeez, that's about as dumb a thing as I've ever seen or heard of. WOW is right. MT didn't say any of the stuff in the article - the only thing the reporter even claims MT said has to do with Brisebois, ie, he was a bit short-fused when discussing Breezer's play, but that' s it. Everything else is the reporter extrapolating, maybe with some off the record info, but nothing more.
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Post by habwest on Jan 19, 2003 17:29:35 GMT -5
Frankly, for MT to even talk with a reporter who he knows will bad mouth his ex boss is just plain stupid.
Even if he was only briefly quoted, AS and any other GM, or owner, simply won't believe that MT wasn't spilling his guts off the record.
Whether it's fair or not, or whether he did it or not, will be irrelevant. Maybe it's not fair but that's the way the world works, especially when you play with the big boys.
He's toast.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 17:33:05 GMT -5
But MT didn't talk to the reporter (I assume you thought he told the reporter these things after the firing)...
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Post by AH on Jan 19, 2003 17:37:23 GMT -5
MT and Blanchard are VERY good friends ... so it wouldn't surprise me if he did tell him these things, and only to him.
Another thing I find curious about the firing is that it happened at a time when it was obvious that this team needed an injection of youth (Hossa, Hainsey). Not only that, but guys like Pleckanec and Komi and Ward are a lot closer to being ready than AS had originally anticipated.
I just think that there is no way in hell was Savard willing to expose his prize prospects to Therrien. Instead he got a real teacher in there who could work with these guys and keep the team competitive at the same time. He knew that Therrien could never achieve that ...
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 17:41:57 GMT -5
But I don't think Therrien talk to Blacnhard since the firing... anyhoo, good point about Savard wanting a teacher and someone who trusts kids behind the bench.Isn't it funny the first game Julien coachs is the best game Hainsey has ever played in the NHL? and the first time he is trusted so much? damn, who would have thought giving your kids some ice time would make them play better
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Post by AH on Jan 19, 2003 17:51:24 GMT -5
But I don't think Therrien talk to Blacnhard since the firing... No but he could have been giving him this info as time went along over the last 2 years.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 19, 2003 17:52:42 GMT -5
But I don't think Therrien talk to Blacnhard since the firing... Seems MT's choice of friends exhibits the same judgment he showed behind the bench. With friends like that, as the saying goes, who needs enemies. Would you guarantee your good friend never gets employed again after they're fired? Blanchard really is a fool. (Or realistic, since MT's chances of another non QMJHL job are nonexistent)
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 17:53:05 GMT -5
Yes absolutely Ever since Blanchard said Bouillon was like our 2nd best d-man...I have stopped reading that clown Bouillon our 2nd best d-man... how biased or blind or dumb can you be?
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 19, 2003 18:31:51 GMT -5
Frankly, for MT to even talk with a reporter who he knows will bad mouth his ex boss is just plain stupid. Even if he was only briefly quoted, AS and any other GM, or owner, simply won't believe that MT wasn't spilling his guts off the record. Whether it's fair or not, or whether he did it or not, will be irrelevant. Maybe it's not fair but that's the way the world works, especially when you play with the big boys. He's toast. His NHL coaching career is dead and gone anyway. Which GM in his right mind will hire Therrien? He will be lucky if he coaches in the AHL.
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Post by habwest on Jan 19, 2003 19:12:26 GMT -5
Marc,
Yes, first I assumed that the entire thing was a based on an interview with MT. When PTH cleared that up, saying it wasn't a record of an interview, he did say that one point was an MT quote, so he in fact did talk to the reporter, even if it was only one quote. My second post was based on that premise. If that's in fact true, then AS, GG and all the other GMs and owners will in fact wonder just what did MT tell the guy, "off the record".
My point is that's all it will take for these guys to never trust MT again, ever. I sure know that I wouldn't.
HA,
Regarding your point, I wasn't referring to just an NHL position but to any position in an NHL club's entire organization, including the minors. Even the juniors for that matter. Besides, just because the views here were so negative doesn't mean that some kind of career for MT somewhere else wasn't possible. He did get a pretty weak club into the playoffs last year and pulled an upset. He gets a job as a scout then who knows. I also think that there may have been some sympathy for the guy with other head coaches; many have been canned themselves, even after winning Cups. Maybe if the guy tried to learn from this he could have salvaged some kind of career, even if he never made head coach again.
But to go anywhere close to any reporter at this point in time, even for a brief comment or lifting of eyebrows, was beyond stupid. He knows his own temper. He should have locked himself in a room until he calmed down.
It's one thing to pop your cork in the heat of the moment but this was more than that.
Dumb, dumb, dumb.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 19:39:35 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Jan 19, 2003 20:20:50 GMT -5
Before, we thought it was just us who recognized MT as way over his head. Suddenly after he's fired, everyone seems to be saying it. Why is this just coming out now? Savard couldn't have been that far out of the loop, could he? It all seems just too Machiavellian to me.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 20:28:55 GMT -5
Before, we thought it was just us who recognized MT as way over his head. Suddenly after he's fired, everyone seems to be saying it. Why is this just coming out now? Savard couldn't have been that far out of the loop, could he? It all seems just too Machiavellian to me. Reading between the lines of Blanchard's article I got the definite subtext that Therrien, through Savard's well-timed "meddling", was set up for a fall.
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