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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 23, 2002 14:58:52 GMT -5
23yrs old, 6'3, over 200, gifted offensively, works well both ways, a tireless worker that plays with a good deal of energy and roughness (is even willing to drop the mits) with recognized leadership quality. Was a star in the junior and a high first rounder and is now on top of the scoring sheet for the league just below the NHL where every team's best prospects play... Darn, we've been needing a kid like that for years...
..wait...
he's ours, it's Jason Ward....
Will our management/coaching wake the hell up?
...probably not.
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Post by Viper on Nov 23, 2002 15:14:04 GMT -5
But he's a right winger doc can't you see that no matter how much more he could potentially bring to the table that there's no room for him with the superior winger's with size we already have on the right side.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 23, 2002 15:19:46 GMT -5
But he's a right winger doc can't you see that no matter how much more he could potentially bring to the table that there's no room for him with the superior winger's with size we already have on the right side. Thanks for setting me straight Vipe. Why bother with a potential young stud when you can play superstar like Audette, Dackell, Petrov and Chow on a regular basis. Bulis/Kilger/Ward would look real bad.... What was I thinking
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 23, 2002 15:42:46 GMT -5
Thanks for setting me straight Vipe. Why bother with a potential young stud when you can play superstar like Audette, Dackell, Petrov and Chow on a regular basis. Bulis/Kilger/Ward would look real bad.... What was I thinking Well, I don't know about your 4th line, as I don't think Bulis deserves to be that low, and I don't think Kilger and Ward deserve to be any higher, but I wouldn't definetely accept a fourth line like this: Kilger - Ribeiro - Ward Play Kilger on the PK, Ribeiro on the PP, and rotate in Lindsay and Blouin, as need be, depending on the type of game. Works for me. And HA, I know you don't think Ward's skating or hands are good enough, but we're talking 4th line here. We want a 4th line that is aggravating, in your face, and all energy. Ward brings that, and if he is only going to play 8-10 minutes a game, if that, why not? I don't think Ward should be given top minutes on a top line, but he has definetely earned a callup. What more does management want him to do? Even Craig Darby was just recently called up by New Jersey. But, as we all already know, there is no room for him in the big leagues, and there doesn't look to be any made anytime soon. Course, management might also want to keep him in Hamilton, where his work ethic and leadership might be a positive influence on guys like Hossa, Balej and Plekanec...
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Post by seventeen on Nov 23, 2002 15:45:36 GMT -5
In business, since I read so much about it, there are instances where a company puts a lot of resources into a project and after it's up and running they find it's not what they expected. When that happens, all those funds committed are considered 'sunk costs'. They're done like dinner. The only way to measure what you should do next is by the cost vs return of the funds you'll have to commit going forward. What was spent before can't influence you, or you're likely to lean toward 'improving the first project' when it's never going to do what you want.
That's Jason's problem. From everything in place right now, he deserves to be called up and given an excellent opportunity to strut his stuff. He seems to have raised his level of play, the Habs need size and grit up front and you can never have too many leadership qualities on a team. (Is this a no-brainer decision or what?) Methinks, however, that the 'sunk costs' of all our underperforming right wingers is making the decisions for MT and AS. Now before anyone argues that we're in no position to make such changes because our line-up is already full, remember that it's full of sunk costs. I could free up space on the roster with the stroke of a pen, putting 5 veterans on waivers. If they're picked up, we lose the salary. If they're not, well the salaries were committed to already anyway, so it's not costing us anymore. The true cost is the blow to the pride of management who threw their lot in with those players to start with. And pride is cheap. Yes, it's that simple....the waiver wire...you just have to be willing to go without those guys. And surely we can trade some of them for low round picks at least. Remember, the only cost is that left hook to the pride.
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Post by Viper on Nov 23, 2002 15:50:30 GMT -5
As cheap and easy as that is Seventeen it, in 99 percent of cases, is the toughest left hook you'll ever be hit with. When you take it though it's always worth the hit. Here's to hoping the punch makes a connection because when they miss (ie berezin replaced by cerkawski) the arm just swings around in a boomerang effect and your right back where you started.
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The next time I have meat and mashed potatoes, I think I'll put a very large blob of potatoes on my plate with just a little piece of meat. And if someone asks me why I didn't get more meat, I'll just say, "Oh, you mean this?" and pull out a big piece of meat from inside the blob of potatoes, where I've hidden it. Good magic trick, huh? - Jack Handey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It would be nice if there was a rabbit in this sleeve.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 23, 2002 15:54:39 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about your 4th line, as I don't think Bulis deserves to be that low, and I don't think Kilger and Ward deserve to be any higher, but I wouldn't definetely accept a fourth line like this: Kilger - Ribeiro - Ward Play Kilger on the PK, Ribeiro on the PP, and rotate in Lindsay and Blouin, as need be, depending on the type of game. Works for me. And HA, I know you don't think Ward's skating or hands are good enough, but we're talking 4th line here. We want a 4th line that is aggravating, in your face, and all energy. Ward brings that, and if he is only going to play 8-10 minutes a game, if that, why not? I don't think Ward should be given top minutes on a top line, but he has definetely earned a callup. What more does management want him to do? Even Craig Darby was just recently called up by New Jersey. But, as we all already know, there is no room for him in the big leagues, and there doesn't look to be any made anytime soon. Course, management might also want to keep him in Hamilton, where his work ethic and leadership might be a positive influence on guys like Hossa, Balej and Plekanec... BC, no matter how lucky you are, you don't make it at the #1 scorer of the AHL if you got no hands... He might not be Guy Lafleur but he's got some offense. Ward is a power forward type of player and we all know that the type comes to his own much slower then other player... I watched him play this week and noticed that he's way "bulkier" then he was too... he's not the lanky kid of 3 years ago. He drills himself in the ice near the net and is tough to move out of there, doesn't mind the abuse and will give some of his own too which makes dmen wary of even trying to move him out. His games now "looks" like a power forward type of game. I really think we're missing the boat on that player. I agree with the 4th line assignment and I think Kilger/Ribeiro/Ward would look fine too.
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Post by PTH on Nov 23, 2002 16:19:45 GMT -5
Actually, for once I think AS may have a clue. Ward might have always been hoping too much to make the NHL, and this year was told - concentrate on dominating in your current league, and then we'll see.
Of course, if that is really what AS has in mind, he'll have a spot open for Ward next season. Ok, time to burst THAT bubble.....
*sigh*
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 23, 2002 16:27:43 GMT -5
Actually, for once I think AS may have a clue. Ward might have always been hoping too much to make the NHL, and this year was told - concentrate on dominating in your current league, and then we'll see. Of course, if that is really what AS has in mind, he'll have a spot open for Ward next season. Ok, time to burst THAT bubble..... *sigh* Ward is on a one year contract PTH, I am sure that there was not a 2 year plan for him... Like with many of our prospect, there is simply no plan. If Jason does dominate his league like he's doing now, he'll have 30 NHL teams that will be ready to offer him a new contract and PLAY HIM in the NHL. HABS will not be among his team of choice you can bet on that...
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Post by Chopper on Nov 23, 2002 16:32:43 GMT -5
If Ward is doing so well why not give him a shot at quality ice time. Even if it's just for a couple games to see if he can keep up with say Zednik and Koivu. He's exactly what every team wants if he can contribute on that line. But why stick him on the fourth right away, let's see what he can really do. It's pretty much a given that he'll contribute just as much as Mckay has up to now, what's the harm in giving him a shot as a power forward on a top line. At worst he doesn't keep up, so then we put him on a fourth line. Isn't it about time someone other than the small, overpaid, offensive oriented veterans get a chance. It's just so frustrating, what will he do on the fourth line? He'll hit some people play 6-7 minutes, will never quite get into the flow of the game and get sent down after being a healthy scratch "'cause he didn't get a hat trick" in his first game. I'm sick of these young guys, "Ribeiro, Hossa, and Ward" not given a fair chance like every other team seems to do for their young prospects. Hossa scores a couple goals in his first couple games, then he doesn't score in the next game, down to the fourth line. Plays 5 minutes a game on the fourth line, but now he's not producing, send him down. Same deal with Ribeiro last year. Hainsey this year, great pre-season, but now he doesn't shoot the puck off the glass like Green showed him so you know what go down to the minors, we'll just put up with Traverse instead. Look Ward had a descent year last year showed some toughness, now he leads the AHL in scoring, what else could you ask of the guy??
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Post by PTH on Nov 23, 2002 16:41:10 GMT -5
Ward is on a one year contract PTH, I am sure that there was not a 2 year plan for him... Like with many of our prospect, there is simply no plan. If Jason does dominate his league like he's doing now, he'll have 30 NHL teams that will be ready to offer him a new contract and PLAY HIM in the NHL. HABS will not be among his team of choice you can bet on that... Ward isn't a group VI UFA as far as I know, so we'll still have a chance to see what he can do next year. OK, so sue me, trying to be an optimist somewhere along the line....
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 23, 2002 16:45:35 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about your 4th line, as I don't think Bulis deserves to be that low, and I don't think Kilger and Ward deserve to be any higher, but I wouldn't definetely accept a fourth line like this: Kilger - Ribeiro - Ward Play Kilger on the PK, Ribeiro on the PP, and rotate in Lindsay and Blouin, as need be, depending on the type of game. Works for me. And HA, I know you don't think Ward's skating or hands are good enough, but we're talking 4th line here. We want a 4th line that is aggravating, in your face, and all energy. Ward brings that, and if he is only going to play 8-10 minutes a game, if that, why not? I don't think Ward should be given top minutes on a top line, but he has definetely earned a callup. What more does management want him to do? Even Craig Darby was just recently called up by New Jersey. But, as we all already know, there is no room for him in the big leagues, and there doesn't look to be any made anytime soon. Course, management might also want to keep him in Hamilton, where his work ethic and leadership might be a positive influence on guys like Hossa, Balej and Plekanec... Hey, am I disagreeing? But you know what? He can’t be worse then some of the chimps that are masquerading as players that the Hab’s have now. I would do Ward instead of Lindsay, McKay or Gilmour in a heart beat. Ward has managed to elevate his play from the one and a half years apart that I saw him. He is much better then he use to be. He actually gets from point A to point B while standing up. His speed is along the lines of McKay or Gilmour on their best days. AND he does stand in front of the net and take the licking. More then I can say for a lot of other Hab’s. His hands are slow. You wonder what he is thinking when a fan from the stand is yelling “lift it” before he makes his decision to shoot. Maybe have him stand in front of a passing machine and convert passes until his hands bleed and his brain converts into instinct. Yup, I just wished he wouldn’t say, ”left, right, left, right….” when he's skating.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 23, 2002 16:45:53 GMT -5
I must say I was impressed with Ward the last 2 games but you guys need to remember it's the AHL and he has been in that league for a few years now. Just remember even Shaun Van Allen was a great AHL scorer.
Ward can be a good grinder in this league but probably not more than that.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 23, 2002 17:00:24 GMT -5
Anyone can score in the AHL... Derek Armstrong, Brad Smyth, Ken Gernander, just a few of the notable Rangers "star" AHLers over the years. The reason Ward hasn't been called up is probably because Ward can't cut it in the big league. They see him alot more often that anyone else, they should know. Just because a guy is young doesn't make him a prospect.
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 17:52:44 GMT -5
Anyone can score in the AHL... Derek Armstrong, Brad Smyth, Ken Gernander, just a few of the notable Rangers "star" AHLers over the years. The reason Ward hasn't been called up is probably because Ward can't cut it in the big league. They see him alot more often that anyone else, they should know. Just because a guy is young doesn't make him a prospect. I agree. I must say, I'm not a big Ward fan, but I wont call him a bust anymore. He does work hard, which you gota like, but I think he does lack some skill on offence. I haven't seen him this year, so I should say anything. But last year Ward had so many breakaways, but missed on many. No I'm not saying he has hands of stone, as he clearly has some offence ability. But him leading the league in scoring 20 games into the season does little for me, as Eric Landry was 3rd in scoring last year, and Craig Darby was 5th in scoring or so, and he led the AHL in assits, and Craig Darby sucks, and Eric Landry is a career AHLer (with a NHL game here or there mixed in, good energy guy). I think what Ward has done so far, is make Savard consider giving him a contract over the summer. If Jason Ward is our next Power Forward, I may have to find my skates and give it a whirl. ;D
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Post by HFTO on Nov 23, 2002 18:01:29 GMT -5
Do I smell a poll? I 'll start making posters for the brining up WARD campaign! Give jason a shot AS! HFTO
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 18:29:35 GMT -5
Do I smell a poll? I 'll start making posters for the brining up WARD campaign! Give jason a shot AS! HFTO Its just not pratictal to bring up Ward. Its a numbers game, but a problem nun the less. Here's the thing, you call up Ward (not much NHL experience) but to do that, you have to trade/release a player. Lets say its Lindsay (since we got him on waivers and have 2 players in the same role in Killger, Blouin) so we waive him, and call up Ward. Now what if Ward doesn't work out? Then you got to send him down (depending on how many games he plays, he already cleared waivers once this year, but I would be surprised if he did again) or your stuck with him sitting in the press box (while at 23 he should be playing on a 1st line getting PP,PK time dominating the league) and if you can send him down, then you lose Lindsay, and Ward, so you have an open roster spot. (not a big deal, as you could call up Hainsey/Hossa depending on needs). As for Ward being called up, my vote is Hossa, who has 5pts in 2 games and is on a 4 game point streak. He's been playing a lot better lately, and has more skill then Ward, IMO. Maybe Gilmor retires, and Hossa takes over (if that happens, hopefully he wont take after Perreault's lazy soft work in his own end).
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Nov 23, 2002 18:38:30 GMT -5
Well said on the pro-Ward side. I've been waiting for someone else to notice how well he's been doing, besides me. At the 1st HabsRus Hamilton venture when Viper, HA and I were discussing the players before hand. I said the kid I wanted to watch that night was Ward. I posed the question...why can't he be another Kirk Muller type player. He's always been a leader going back to Junior and the Canadian Jr team. Is his skating the best? No but he's not laughable like some current Habs. He has size, some skill and some toughness. I wanted him up here last year when AS brought in the great Bill Lindsay. Regardless, his time is now. I get a kick out of the AS apologists. JV is slowly coming to the dark side, we brought HA over in the offseason and now newcomer Montreal has arrived on the scene. So the A is no good if a player is leading the league but if he's not scoring then it's up to him to perform better. It leaves me shaking my head. Tell me then what is a player to do to get a call up or chance. I know, I know if the great Andre Savard says they aren't worthy then they obviously aren't.
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 18:51:16 GMT -5
Well said on the pro-Ward side. I've been waiting for someone else to notice how well he's been doing, besides me. At the 1st HabsRus Hamilton venture when Viper, HA and I were discussing the players before hand. I said the kid I wanted to watch that night was Ward. I posed the question...why can't he be another Kirk Muller type player. He's always been a leader going back to Junior and the Canadian Jr team. Is his skating the best? No but he's not laughable like some current Habs. He has size, some skill and some toughness. I wanted him up here last year when AS brought in the great Bill Lindsay. Regardless, his time is now. I get a kick out of the AS apologists. JV is slowly coming to the dark side, we brought HA over in the offseason and now newcomer Montreal has arrived on the scene. So the A is no good if a player is leading the league but if he's not scoring then it's up to him to perform better. It leaves me shaking my head. Tell me then what is a player to do to get a call up or chance. I know, I know if the great Andre Savard says they aren't worthy then they obviously aren't. Whoa whoa hold on, I never said leading the AHL is bad, but look no further then last years 3rd leading scorer Eric Landry (75pts). All I'm saying is that leading the AHL in scoring doesn't write you a ticket to the bigs. Craig Darby led the AHL in assits and racked up 70pts, but you wont convince me he's worthy of 4th line duty. And this is only 20 games in, so lets wait awhile to see what Ward does 50-60 games from now before we start getting out the Ward Hab jerseys.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 23, 2002 19:04:50 GMT -5
I'm an apologist for no one.
As for Ward, I'm with those who aren't greatly impressed by AHL numbers except as one among a number of helpful indicia of how well a player might do in the NHL. Pierre Sevigny was Quebec's leading scorer on and off for a half a dozen years or more. Benoit Gratton is able to score in the AHL. Fact is, Ward's skating is less of a handicap in Hamilton than it will be here in the NHL. I've heard it said that his skating has improved, although I saw him in September (about 60 days ago) and all I noticed was that his skating was atrocious when compared to Balej, Komisarek, Plekanec and even Hossa. A player has not "earned" a shot in the NHL simply by putting up numbers in the AHL. If Clement Jodoin and company are impressed with his game (namely, skating, hustle, position, discipline and production) after watching him every day and reviewing the tape, then he'll have earned a shot. Nobody who looks at the boxscores can say very much about this one way or the other. And seeing him live, while helpful, is different for us because we're far less capable of doing the simultaneous translation needed (from AHL to NHL) than are the members of Savard's staff.....
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 23, 2002 19:11:31 GMT -5
well our team has a history of injury problems, and i'm sure he's the #1 fill in man in AS's mind, so if he doesn't get called up soon, i feel he eventually will, but knowing our coaching staff he won't be given the chance he deserves anyways. i'd sure like to see him playing with the big club though
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 25, 2002 14:47:58 GMT -5
Well said on the pro-Ward side. I've been waiting for someone else to notice how well he's been doing, besides me. At the 1st HabsRus Hamilton venture when Viper, HA and I were discussing the players before hand. I said the kid I wanted to watch that night was Ward. I posed the question...why can't he be another Kirk Muller type player. He's always been a leader going back to Junior and the Canadian Jr team. Is his skating the best? No but he's not laughable like some current Habs. He has size, some skill and some toughness. I wanted him up here last year when AS brought in the great Bill Lindsay. Regardless, his time is now. I get a kick out of the AS apologists. JV is slowly coming to the dark side, we brought HA over in the offseason and now newcomer Montreal has arrived on the scene. So the A is no good if a player is leading the league but if he's not scoring then it's up to him to perform better. It leaves me shaking my head. Tell me then what is a player to do to get a call up or chance. I know, I know if the great Andre Savard says they aren't worthy then they obviously aren't. I couldn't agree with you more. Anybody not picked by AS has the potential to become Craig Darby, Pierre Sevigny or Allen MacDermott while AS's picks have all the potential in the world to carry the team in 3 years. It's one way of looking at it. Actually I was ready to forget about Ward until I saw him play last week. His play was impressive, every aspect of it. Ward was once highly touted by every experts and this is why he got picked so early. Obviously experts saw something in him at the time and to see him starting to achieve something is a good sign in my opinion.
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Post by montreal on Nov 25, 2002 16:10:01 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more. Anybody not picked by AS has the potential to become Craig Darby, Pierre Sevigny or Allen MacDermott while AS's picks have all the potential in the world to carry the team in 3 years. It's one way of looking at it. Actually I was ready to forget about Ward until I saw him play last week. His play was impressive, every aspect of it. Ward was once highly touted by every experts and this is why he got picked so early. Obviously experts saw something in him at the time and to see him starting to achieve something is a good sign in my opinion. Well my thoughts on your comments are that, Savard's picks are still fresh and we haven't had much time to see how they will let us down. Whereas we've seen what the last regime brought us through poor drafting, and after years of Ward, Chouinard, Garon and Ribeiro as our future stars, it's easier to hope and pray that Savard at least has half a brain cause the guy before him didn't come close to anything comparable to the living. If I remember correctly, last season which was Ward's first healthy season, he was really good for a couple of games, then not so good for other games. But he's still young, and his recent scoring is a hell of a lot better then say Chouinard's 1 goal so far. Do I have a lot of hope for Ward? No. What does that mean. Nothing. What does Savard think of Ward. Something, or else Jason would not be in Hamilton with a contract for the year, as he could have not signed him over the summer. Funny but Houle's prospects aren't so hot with other GM's either. Ward was left unprotected this year, and went unclamined. Garon goes through waivers and went unclamined. Ribeiro could be headed there if he does get his act together. (-3 already, way to Mikey picken up where you left off last year)
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 25, 2002 20:45:19 GMT -5
Funny but Houle's prospects aren't so hot with other GM's either. Ward was left unprotected this year, and went unclamined. Garon goes through waivers and went unclamined. Ribeiro could be headed there if he does get his act together. (-3 already, way to Mikey picken up where you left off last year) Agreed. Prospects that rots in a certain organization for too long don't generate much interest. Not many teams will take a chance on a player that spent 4-5 years in another's team farm only to end up on waivers. Does that mean they were/are bad players? I don't think so. I think they simply haven't been groomed right. To me, aside from a handfull a players in every draft, who you pick is way less important then how you'll groom and that's why certain organization keep pumping in players from their farm while other don't. If the only kind of players that will make it up from the farm are guys like Markov who can be a dominant player from his first rookie game, then we're not done seeing the oldish has been/waiver material vets of this NHL wearing the CH.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 25, 2002 20:53:51 GMT -5
sort of like Garon?
Not dealing Hackett 2-3 years ago has not only reduced his value because of injuries/UFA but also Garon's because he has gone from ''stud prospect'' to ''good prospect'' to ''will he even be a backup in the NHL?''.
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Post by montreal on Nov 26, 2002 1:45:06 GMT -5
sort of like Garon? Not dealing Hackett 2-3 years ago has not only reduced his value because of injuries/UFA but also Garon's because he has gone from ''stud prospect'' to ''good prospect'' to ''will he even be a backup in the NHL?''. But were aren't in the market of holding hands. Garon was given a shot and he stunk up the joint. What would of happened if Hackett was traded? Who knows, as its impossible to say what the return and effects would have been. But, 2-3 years ago, Theodore was very young, Garon younger, and without Hack this year could be looking a LOT worse. I have read the complaints on these boards (and other sites) about us not handling our prospects right, and not seeing the rookies with a roster spot. Well here's my take, I've seen Chouinard, Ribeiro, Ward, Garon, Hainsey, Hossa, (all 1st & 2nd round picks) and when they were up, I wasn't impressed at all. (well thats not true, I like Ribeiro and some parts of his game, and Hossa in his brief stint wasn't bad). But with the exception of Hossa, I watched our prosecpts and never said, oh boy thank god we picked this one. Maybe the reason our prospects are playing right now, is that they aren't very good. Chouinard, well after the size and wrist shot of his, he should get a tatoo that says BUST. He did one or two good things on the ice, but nothing to write home about, and shouldn't be given a shot, until he does something to prove he should play in the NHL. Ribeiro, has done some real good things on offence, but his play in his own end is weak, confused, and sloppy (and I am a Ribeiro fan), I think his bright play on offence got him a contract this summer and another chance to prove he belongs, but if he doesn't step it up some, he wont be here long, nor should he be. Ward, its tough to say, as those 2 years of major injuries have set him back. I think it was the Rangers that he played his 1st game against scoring his 1st goal, and we all thought alright what a pick. Now years later, I really didn't think Savard was going to resign him (and neither did he from what I read). When he was up though, he didn't so much but injuries got in the way. (sucks he got injured sitting on the bench) last year he did what he hadn't been able to do, and that was stay healthy. So maybe that got him a 1 year deal. Now he's doing very well 20 games into the season. So should he get called up now? (remember its not that easy. a move would have to be made to bring him up, plus another move has to be made in a few weeks to bring Souray back, so thats 2 guys off the roster, and we don't have much that other GM's would be jumping for joy to get on their team). What's wrong with telling Ward, hey Jason good job, keep up the good work, and you will get a contract this summer, cause McKay, Petrov, Chow, Audette, well its clear some of them got to go. Your doing good, but can you do this all season? Garon, from the games I saw he didn't look good at all except those Thrashers games (2 SO's against the worst team is good, but nothing to go ga ga over. I remember his game against the Ducks, and they picked him apart. He was going down to early, his angles were bad, I thought wow this kid aint going nowhere. Then in the playoffs, he just couldn't make the saves that he had to make. I wrote him off personally, but he did have a good camp, and has played well in Hamilton (except that 8-0 game, but he stopped a PS that game). Would anyone here rather see Theodore/Garon? If Hackett gets traded, Theo is going to play a whole lot of games. I just not confident in Garon, and something tells me management might not be either. (getting Fiset, then Fichaud-who is playing very good) Maybe management knows more then us, and thing it would be a bad ideal of having Garon as our only goalie if Theo gets hurt.
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Post by montreal on Nov 26, 2002 2:09:28 GMT -5
Continued, as I didn't want to lose the post for being too big.
Hainsey, well over at HF my avatar is of Hainsey (tried putting up over here, but I cant find it), and after seeing him last year, I was impressed with his game. He had a great preseason, but as soon as the season started, he looked different. The thing I noticed is that he no longer seem calm when he was out there. He was running around way to much and was out of position WAY to often. He wasn't shooting the puck either. You can blame Therrien, Green, or Savard. I blame Ron Hainsey. He got a chance to play, and it didn't go well, so they sent him down to work on his play in his own end. Bad ideal? I don't think so, as I never once said, wow he looks great out there. Did we overrate him? can't say, but I don't think so, I think he will be a good one. Over at HF there was talk about him being in the calder race just after the preseason. I didn't think he would be in that race (one reason defencemen dont win the calder much, and there's a lot of really good rookies this year), my thoughts as to why he wouldn't win (I honestly thought he would still be with the team all season long) was that he had to be more phyiscal. He will have to work on that for sure, but he does have the size and skating, but at 21, he's got a lot of learning to do.
Hossa, while he was impressive in the games he played, he wasn't the same after his injury. Then when camp came around, he wasn't that good, and wasn't good at the start of the season either. Maybe he thought he had a spot on the team already, and all he had to do was show up. I don't know, hopefully that never happens. We can't just give a spot to a player that has 1 year of pro hockey under his belt. They all have to earn it. Yes he played some good games, but he also played some not so good games, then didn't do enough in the preseason, so he didn't get a spot. I think its good, another year in the AHL might wake him up. He's playing well now, and that's a great sign. Lets see him keep it up all season.
I think in the next 3 years we will see Hainsey, Komisarek and Hossa in the lineup. It may be more towards the 3 year part, but, they will be NHLers IMO. At 21, 20, and 21 they are still young and can learn a lot playing in the AHL. Hainsey and Komisarek need to work on their play in their own end, and not be running around so much. Get better at body positioning, and taking the body. Hossa needs to learn that he has to show up to play every night. Lets see him do that, before we say these guys should be in the NHL right now. Although at this point, I'm tired of seeing Gilmor, Petrov, Chow, Dykhuis, Quintal, Traverse, Audette, and if we don't get it going by mid way point and are far out of it, maybe trimming the fat would be good, and bring up the young guys then.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 26, 2002 8:34:19 GMT -5
But were aren't in the market of holding hands. Garon was given a shot and he stunk up the joint. What would of happened if Hackett was traded? Who knows, as its impossible to say what the return and effects would have been. But, 2-3 years ago, Theodore was very young, Garon younger, and without Hack this year could be looking a LOT worse. My point is...not making room for Garon has significantly reduced his value and we will not get the return we could have had 2-3 years ago because we never made room for him in the NHL. Garon is too good for the AHL, he needs NHL time. More than just a week on a tough road trip if you know what I mean. The point has nothing to do with this year and Hackett/Theodore. It has to do with not giving a prospect a chance at the next level and seeing his value sink because of it 2-3 years down the road.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 26, 2002 12:55:17 GMT -5
I think montreal, that our biggest complaint has been that even if we wanted to, we can't bring up a prospect. You said it yourself - its a numbers game, and right now Jason Ward is losing it.
We've had this debate for eons here, and its something we keep bringing up. PTH has always worried about the size of the contracts, and the length, being given out to mediocre players, that block our prospects.
Nobody wants to throw a guy into the fire, if he isn't ready, he isn't ready. But the roster also doesn't have enough flexibility to accomodate them if they are. Audette has THREE YEARS left on his contract, and he's been offered around the league with no takers. Savard extended Quintal's contract, meaning he is in all probability still here next year and after the way he whined and backstabbed in New York and Chicago, he ain't going anywhere else. How many years does Czerkawski have? Didn't Traverse sign a three year deal? McKay has two.
Right now, Marcel Hossa could score 12 goals in the next 6 games, and not get called up. Heck, Ward leads the AHL in scoring. Garon, no room. Hainsey won't have any once Souray comes back, which means that he won't be broken in until next year (assuming no major injuries) which in turn pushes Komisarek back by a year (won't break in two rookie defenseman) and knocks Jarventie right out of the picture. So on, and so on. Doesn't matter how well they play, they can't come up. There is no reward system.
This is not a new complaint for us. A lot of people here saw this developing a ways back, and, like they say, we hate it when we are right. We have a $48 million payroll, an old team, and a mediocre team. That kind of upsets us. I hope Savard is following JV's plan, and I hope that in three years we are fast, young, and hungry. But until I actually see it, I will remain sceptical.
Having said that, I like Savard, I really do, and I think he is coming into some unnecessary and unwarranted criticism of late, but that's just because everyone thought he was some sort of *ahem* "Saint." You should have seen the "Saint Savard" dolls that were being peddled for $9.99 around here. People thought he was perfect, but now that we are seeing that he isn't, we are like jilted lovers, swinging the pendulum far too much the other way.
But that's another post, for another time.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 26, 2002 13:32:25 GMT -5
Traverse's deal expires this coming summer, I believe. Czerk has this year and next on his deal. Quintal is just one more after this one. Hackett's is finished. Gilmour's on a club option next year (finish). Petrov is in his last year (finished?). Audette has this year and two more after. Don't know about Perreault.
If Savard just keeps his pen in his pocket this summer (except for Koivu et al) we'll have plenty of space for Hossa +. Hainsey I still think will be back before the end of the year (Dykhuis' days are numbered).....
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