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Post by Toronthab on Dec 16, 2006 12:03:57 GMT -5
I, for one, am really astonished that you still believe the Liberal Party Of Canada is the best party for Canadians. Find one post where I said that. And how does your reply, in any way, address my response to your quote I cited? And this is the guy who picked the slogan for the Conservative campaign. It's not a laughing matter, but a lot of conservative's children get hit on the head with bibles,. Physical and emotional abuse and conditional love makes for a deity who delights in punishing malefactors who are usually, coincidentally either a visible minority or needing help in some way (read 'weaklings'). Fascism does appeal to fascist souls of course, but it is so hard to fathom how folks can forget that there are higher goals in life, than a few bucks more for them while the world becomes more cold and inhuman. The irony is that the world is a world of plenty. Human compassion is a preconditon for a happy life. Stand up for Canada. Stop fascists in their miserable, abusive, lonely, empty tracks.
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Post by princelh on Dec 16, 2006 12:04:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the world is experiencing fascism right now, in the Middle East and the Secular Liberal Governments in Europe are powerless to stop them. I don't want to see North America go down the same path as these soon to be extinct nanny states. Elect Liberal governments and it will come to pass.
On Katrina, what part of those pictures are not true? Did these people spend too much time watching Opra or Jerry Springer, to watch the news and see that it said, "Evacuate Now!" I guess they either couldn't read a newspaper, turn on a radio or watch the local news for three days (7 day's warnings) that this may be coming their way. I guess it was too easy to sit on the couch and let the government worry about their well-being and that the government would stop the storm from doing harm to them. I guess the looting and thefts were done by law abiding citizens that came back to the city after the storm and did this looting frenzy. I guess that it's easier to steal that Plasma T.V., then work for it! Only a Liberal would see that!
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 16, 2006 12:13:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the world is experiencing fascism right now, in the Middle East and the Secular Liberal Governments in Europe are powerless to stop them. I don't want to see North America go down the same path as these soon to be extinct nanny states. Elect Liberal governments and it will come to pass. On Katrina, what part of those pictures are not true? Did these people spend too much time watching Opra or Jerry Springer, to watch the news and see that it said, "Evacuate Now!" I guess they either couldn't read a newspaper, turn on a radio or watch the local news for three days (7 day's warnings) that this may be coming their way. I guess it was too easy to sit on the couch and let the government worry about their well-being and that the government would stop the storm from doing harm to them. I guess the looting and thefts were done by law abiding citizens that came back to the city after the storm and did this looting frenzy. I guess that it's easier to steal that Plasma T.V., then work for it! Only a Liberal would see that! Actually the looting and the thefts were ongoing as the oil industry puppets in the White House steal and ignore real peril for the entire nation, while letting seniors drown as they tried to scratch through their roofs from inside flooded attics. The conservative response. And they dare to preach 'Christain' values and the european tradition. " But Lord when did I see you? " I was hungry and you fed me, naked and you clothed me." "Whatever you do to the least of my brothers you do unto me." Fascist.
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 16, 2006 12:47:47 GMT -5
It would be really good for prince to leave off the prince of darkness in this, and consider Jesus's admoniton. when he said we would be judged on such things welcoming a stranger in his name, wherein we welcome Christ or tell him to go to hell. Ten of thousands of American strangers were welcomed into Newfoundland homes on Sept 11, 2001. Many were not welcomed in Jesus' name .... they were welcomed because it was the human thing to do, the right thing to do, but mainly it was just Newfoundlanders being Newfoundlanders. I don't think God looked upon anybody more or less favourably whether it was in Jesus' name or not. This is my problem with religion. One does not have to believe in Jesus, church, or religion to believe in God or do good for their fellow man ... just live the golden rule ...if that isnt good enough to get me through the pearly gates, then i dont want to be in there. Some religions believe there is a quota on who gets in anyway .. and I am sure there are 144,000 (if you believe the JW's) better candidtes than me. I am not intending to ascribe formally 'religious' motives to the response of the people of Nfld, but was responding to the 'Christian values' rhetoric of the right wingers. Responding to the needs of others, the poor in particular is singularly a sign of non-judgemental love of neighbor. In point of fact, service to the poor and afflicted is very much a development of Christian culture, appearing singularly in early Christian Europe to the point that Roman soldiers were astounded by the universal charity exhibited. Even Voltaire who was intensely anti-Catholic was astounded by the care and love in Catholic hospices delivered irrespective of means and position. That point of view is still alive in the hearts and minds of many in Nfld, and in fact polls and studies confirm that people with a religious sense of being, do in fact give more to help people in need. Selfless love is not so widespread a gift in our culture.
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 16, 2006 12:53:38 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the world is experiencing fascism right now, in the Middle East and the Secular Liberal Governments in Europe are powerless to stop them. I don't want to see North America go down the same path as these soon to be extinct nanny states. Elect Liberal governments and it will come to pass. On Katrina, what part of those pictures are not true? Did these people spend too much time watching Opra or Jerry Springer, to watch the news and see that it said, "Evacuate Now!" I guess they either couldn't read a newspaper, turn on a radio or watch the local news for three days (7 day's warnings) that this may be coming their way. I guess it was too easy to sit on the couch and let the government worry about their well-being and that the government would stop the storm from doing harm to them. I guess the looting and thefts were done by law abiding citizens that came back to the city after the storm and did this looting frenzy. I guess that it's easier to steal that Plasma T.V., then work for it! Only a Liberal would see that! Keep diggin'..... Have you found that post yet that says I support the Liberal Party?
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 16, 2006 13:10:13 GMT -5
My problem is not with the immigrants, but with the big business/elitists who want to control people through economic means. You mentioned cleaning toilets, doing jobs that born here people won't do. Maybe they would if they paid them properly and not expect them to work for starvation wages. If the welfare sect doesn't want to do it, then the welfare sect can go hungry. I still remember the welfare types left behind in New Orleans, after Katrina. Overweight, almost illiterate, many the dregs of society. Cannot these lazy bastards do the jobs of the illegals? Can't big business afford to pay a living wage, instead of looking out for the shareholders? These are the pariah who are to blame, not immigrants. Where I have the problem, is unleashing a different culture and way of life on those who have been here for generations. That to me, is divide and conquer. The Liberals are the Establishment party, in this country, and are the ones that use the immigrant vote against the generational Canadians. Those with older roots who have been here, for hundreds of years, tend to not fear change. This kind of politics, that the Liberal Party Of Canada practices makes me sick! Scare the immigrants to vote Liberal and use the Quebec card to get enough seats to survive. Hence, the need for a Liberal leader from Quebec, to get that handful of seats that makes the difference. To hell with the west and to hell with those who don't believe in the strategy of fear. Harper is scary! Not!! Western pur lain.....what a surprise. Heh heh. These 'leaders' always draw the line at their own tribe, and reduce the ideas of society and their small idea of 'christianity' to their little tribal interests. They don't ultimately even care about their tribe, either, just the fat cat tribal members they can align with. Society, the nation and most certainly Christianity are much, much greater than this tax-cut, paltry selfishness. Liberals generally, specifically as they state, try to work within the vagaries a market economy and build community within those constraints. They don't generally condemn single mothers and their children and the next largest group of people on welfare, workers over fifty years of age who aren't being employed. These groups comprise the vast majority of welfare recipients. Unemployment is structurally integrated into our economy. The conservatives have historically used interest rates to control inflation, which ultimately kills the economy and brings about massive unemployment while least affecting the corporations and wealthy. Wage and price controls is the other way to conrol inflation and does not target the weakest in society. Conservatives hated and fought this approach under Trudeau. Corporations and currency speculators and the IMF must be reined in by international law in the interests of human life. Capitalism, was developped in Geneva by Jean de Calvin, and is predicated on the protestant doctrine of total depravity,the belief thath humans are totally corrupt which is why it erroneously supports the vice of greed (odd for Christians to support vice so fully and consciously). Greed is not good. It is rapacious and evil, as are its effects. Moms and dads can indeed be hard-hearted and indifferent to the poor, but as the cliche has it, God doesn't create junk. We are created good, but have a tendency which we indulge towards the selfish and harmful or evil to use a much misunderstood word. (Evil as Saint Augustine showed us, is the abscence of a good that should be there) Hence consistent condemnation from other Christian sources (e.g. Papal encyclicals and Catholic social doctrine) which articulates a priority or preferential option for, not against the poor. While communism has been totally condemned as an ideology incompatible with the reality of existence and human nature, and while private property is seen to be consistent with human natural needs, capitalism is seen as corrupt as its nature is greed. A right to private property and the means to production is consistent with individual and community good, but are not abslolutes that can justify human misery and poverty. The good of the community can never morally be ignored for the greed of the individual or oligarchies as we see so often in North America. Conservatives, particularly the fearful fascist element want to 'enshrine' property rights as absolutes which would effectively make them equal to actual human rights. Sick. Depraved, fascistic . It's what they want the guns for.
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Post by princelh on Dec 16, 2006 16:09:15 GMT -5
Your argument comes right out of the Liberal playbook. You over-exaggerate what the Conservatives are trying to do and call anyone who is a Conservative all kinds of names. It's obvious what you are is what you are.
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Post by princelh on Dec 16, 2006 16:16:03 GMT -5
You work hard, all of your life. You pay in to government run programs for decades. When you reach the end of the line and expect your golden handshake, boom, too bad. We're going to tax the hell out of your savings, we want to revoke your property rights. While were at it, we'll make it almost impossible for your grandchildren to be considered for government jobs or crown corporation jobs because we need to fill quota's. I doesn't matter that they're more qualified or better educated, we want people with different ethnic backgrounds to get the taxpayer funded jobs. You just go ahead and die, then we'll tax you again, before your corpse turns to maggots. Sounds like the new secular society that you Liberals want. Discrimination and all!
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Post by franko on Dec 16, 2006 21:29:08 GMT -5
And this is the guy who picked the slogan for the Conservative campaign. It's not a laughing matter, but a lot of conservative's children get hit on the head with bibles,. Physical and emotional abuse and conditional love makes for a deity who delights in punishing malefactors who are usually, coincidentally either a visible minority or needing help in some way (read 'weaklings'). Fascism does appeal to fascist souls of course, but it is so hard to fathom how folks can forget that there are higher goals in life, than a few bucks more for them while the world becomes more cold and inhuman. The irony is that the world is a world of plenty. Human compassion is a preconditon for a happy life. Stand up for Canada. Stop fascists in their miserable, abusive, lonely, empty tracks. Yet another inflammatory diatribe post, tarring and maligning everyone that might hold a conservative point of view on some matters. Is the condemnation against those who hold a non Liberal or non Catholic viewpoint with basis or is it based on anecdotal comment (via the new media). Conservatives beat their children with the Bible? Come on. Even if this is hyperbole it goes too far. That would be like someone saying that Catholics support child molestation -- after all, priests are all homosexual pedophiles. We know that not to be true and would never suggest such a thing. All priests are not so inclined (some are, to be sure) and most Roman Catholics (except the deniers) are horrified by these actions of a few. So perhaps it is time to get facts straight. Perhaps it is time to get to know some “regular” non-Catholic believers who hold the Bible in high regard. Find out what they really believe. And remember . . . they are just as perfect as you are.
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Post by franko on Dec 16, 2006 22:35:25 GMT -5
Just a thoughts and historical reminders: Wage and price controls is the other way to conrol inflation and does not target the weakest in society. Conservatives hated and fought this approach under Trudeau. One of Robert Stanfield's platforms in the 1974 federal election was to impose wage and price controls. Mr. Trudeau mocked him, yet 15 months later imposed the controls himself. Total depravity is a Calvinist doctrine (not all Protestants are Calvinist) that teaches that all men are indeed totally depraved, that is, "infected" (or lack of a better term) by sin. Corrupt? Yes -- not at all perfect. Absolutely and irrevocably? Not taught -- Christian to Christian, the doctrine of the atonement is in opposition to that thought. We are created in the image of God, but with an Adamic sinful nature, far from perfect (forgive me, all, for the theological discourse). In sin my mother conceived me, said David -- the "man after God's own heart". And Protestants do not support the vice of greed. The Calvinist/Protestant work ethic says "don't be lazy -- work hard". And then suggests that all should be careful with their earned money. John Wesley (a conservative/pietist Christian) was taken to task for trying to avoid paying tax on his possessions; he quickly pointed out that he didn't have things because he gave them to others. He taught "earn all you can; save all you can; give all you can". A good way of living, to my mind. Please say "from Catholic sources", as that is papal encyclicals are. And be careful not to forget the sins of the Church as it participated in the colonization of third world areas and in taking land from indiginous peoples.
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Post by princelh on Dec 16, 2006 22:36:36 GMT -5
If only he knew that I am a decedent of two United Empire Loyalist families, one German/Swiss the other Scot/Irish. My great-grandmother, on my fathers side, was actually descended from the first settlers at Plymouth Rock. My mothers side arrived in New York village and were involved with the first church built in New York and housed the Reverend John Wesley in their home, when he arrived from the old world. It is also a fact, that they were here in the 1600's, one of the so called 0% spoken about in a previous post. They were also not Catholics, so the so called secularist attack holds no meaning at this end. My descendent's also built the first church in upper Canada, when they left the United States during the American Revolution. We shared this land with all that came and all that wanted to build this country. I find it insulting that someone who tears down the culture of Canada, that has existed for close to 400 years, for their own gratification and doesn't mind the desecration of those courageous souls who built the greatest country in the world. We are not better off then we were 40 years ago.
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Post by franko on Dec 16, 2006 22:50:18 GMT -5
If only he knew that I am a decedent of two United Empire Loyalist families, one German/Swiss the other Scot/Irish. My great-grandmother, on my fathers side, was actually descended from the first settlers at Plymouth Rock. My mothers side arrived in New York village and were involved with the first church built in New York and housed the Reverend John Wesley in their home, when he arrived from the old world. It is also a fact, that they were here in the 1600's, one of the so called 0% spoken about in a previous post. They were also not Catholics, so the so called secularist attack holds no meaning at this end. My descendent's also built the first church in upper Canada, when they left the United States during the American Revolution. We shared this land with all that came and all that wanted to build this country. I find it insulting that someone who tears down the culture of Canada, that has existed for close to 400 years, for their own gratification and doesn't mind the desecration of those courageous souls who built the greatest country in the world. We are not better off then we were 40 years ago. Methinks you are cross-replying. 'Twas me who referenced 0% whites in the 1690s; 'twas Thab that is the Catholic Liberal. No matter. As i said, I merely transposed your 1960s date, to remind that at one time there were no Europeans in Canada and that we are all immigrants.
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Post by princelh on Dec 16, 2006 23:02:19 GMT -5
Maybe all immigrants, but first immigrants. The first civilized culture that built this country in to greatness. Other European cultures followed and most contributed to it's greatness. Those cultures joined in and also had similar beliefs and idea's on how to build our society. Fast forward to the late 1960's and the makeup of our culture becomes under attack. We are now at the point, that we can't even put up a Christmas tree in a school or public building. The country was built on Christian values and should remain so. If you want to come here, be one of us or stay out! We don't want to become fundamentalist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc., etc.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 16, 2006 23:53:30 GMT -5
Maybe all immigrants, but first immigrants. The first civilized culture that built this country in to greatness. Other European cultures followed and most contributed to it's greatness. Those cultures joined in and also had similar beliefs and idea's on how to build our society. Fast forward to the late 1960's and the makeup of our culture becomes under attack. We are now at the point, that we can't even put up a Christmas tree in a school or public building. The country was built on Christian values and should remain so. If you want to come here, be one of us or stay out! We don't want to become fundamentalist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc., etc. *sigh* Why do everyone always forget about little ol Newfoundland. Two things. The Vikings were the first white culture to settle in North America in Newfoundland. And there is evidence that the Chinese had a settlement in Nova Scotia either around the time of the Vikings or even before. There is an anthropologist that believes this theory, forgets his name at the moment. Even if you want to go with the first European (the Vikings were European, but lets go with anglo-saxon) settlers, they also landed in Newfoundland .... so you are all nuttin but a bunch o Newfs!!! ;D
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Post by princelh on Dec 17, 2006 0:06:04 GMT -5
But Newfoundland is an Island, like Greenland and Iceland. It was not mainland. Did you know that the Plymouth Rock settlers originally landed at the tip of Cape Cod, at what is now Provincetown, and thought that they had landed on an Island. They proceeded to sail across Boston Harbor in to what is now Plymouth, MA. There is also a precedent for an original landing in North Carolina, but the settlers had vanished, without a trace. The Vikings were more of a hunting party, that landed in Newfoundland and I don't know if their intentions were to actually settle there. Still, the Vikings are European, just like the English and French. More power to their claim and yes, Newfoundland is a distinct society, bye!
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Post by Skilly on Dec 17, 2006 0:21:34 GMT -5
But Newfoundland is an Island, like Greenland and Iceland. It was not mainland. Did you know that the Plymouth Rock settlers originally landed at the tip of Cape Cod, at what is now Provincetown, and thought that they had landed on an Island. They proceeded to sail across Boston Harbor in to what is now Plymouth, MA. There is also a precedent for an original landing in North Carolina, but the settlers had vanished, without a trace. The Vikings were more of a hunting party, that landed in Newfoundland and I don't know if their intentions were to actually settle there. Still, the Vikings are European, just like the English and French. More power to their claim and yes, Newfoundland is a distinct society, bye! Intentions? Sure the remnants of a Viking settlement are still at L'anse Aux Meadows to this very day.
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 17, 2006 9:22:03 GMT -5
Sure the remnants of a Viking settlement are still at L'anse Aux Meadows to this very day. Come on, Skilly....you're not fooling anybody. I saw that movie too. What was the Viking's name? Bilbo? ;D Just trying to lighten things up.....and don't take that literally, princelh.
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Post by princelh on Dec 17, 2006 11:48:26 GMT -5
I never do. You guys make my day, sometimes. It's nice to have a bit of controversy, to get the blood circulating. I have lots of respect for Liberals, just not as much as a true Conservative(Not a Bush Republican!). Sometimes, it gets blurred, when they say, ah, a Conservative, a real live Stephen Harper, George W. Bush, Margret Thatcher, Brian Mulroney, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush backer. It couldn't be further from the truth. I condemned Brian Mulroney, I disliked both of the Bush's, liked Reagan and Thatcher and so far, like what Stephan Harper is doing. Could he do better? Who couldn't. He is young and a promising star on the rise, if Canadians just give him a chance. If given a majority and he reverts back to tribalism with the elites, then I would turn on him too. It's ideology to me. I wish that those backing the Liberal Party Of Canada would take out the magnifing glass and disect what that party represents and ask the question; are these truly people who hold the Liberal idiology up to the standards of Liberalism. My belief is no. Until then, they do not deserve power. They need a soul cleansing and a major purge of the Chretien/Martin political elitism sect of the party. The Conservatives did so and they deserve recognition for doing it. Dion is just a recycled Central Canadian elite, that should have been purged at their convention recently.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 17, 2006 16:07:19 GMT -5
Sure the remnants of a Viking settlement are still at L'anse Aux Meadows to this very day. Come on, Skilly....you're not fooling anybody. I saw that movie too. What was the Viking's name? Bilbo? ;D Just trying to lighten things up.....and don't take that literally, princelh. Ohh sweet .... I nearly peed myself I laughed so hard .... ;D If L'Anse Aux Meadows is Hobbiton, than St. John's must be Mordor ... no wonder people from the bay call it Sin-John's.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 17, 2006 16:12:24 GMT -5
If given a majority and he reverts back to tribalism with the elites, then ..... ........ it will be too late. If Stephen Harper is not genuine and gets a majority, he could do a lot of damage. The west trusts him .... the east still is weary. We are willing to give him every minority that he wants (and he seems to do well in a minority setting). But he has said too many wrong things for easterners to trust him with a majority and give him carte-blanche to pass whatever legislation he wants..... no thank you.
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Post by princelh on Dec 17, 2006 17:26:14 GMT -5
But it's OK for a Liberal Eastern Establishment type to have a majority, loot the treasury, make deals with organized crime and continue the long list of patronage to the Senate, Supreme Court and the Governor Generals Office? Not to mention all of the Crown Corporations and Civil Service?
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Post by Skilly on Dec 17, 2006 19:14:48 GMT -5
But it's OK for a Liberal Eastern Establishment type to have a majority, loot the treasury, make deals with organized crime and continue the long list of patronage to the Senate, Supreme Court and the Governor Generals Office? Not to mention all of the Crown Corporations and Civil Service? I never said that. That's why Harper is in now ... the east did not blindly vote Liberal. They voted conservative in gretaer percentages than they had in a long time because they were sick of seeing the Liberals corruption. The only hope Harper has of swinging the vote in the east is by staying where he is in the polls. If he peaks and it looks like he will get a majority the east will go Liberal. If he plateaus the east will split ... if he drops a bit the east will go either way. The Liberals have not chastised the east like Harper has. And Harper is starting to show signs of corruption as well ... not keeping his promises, saying he did not say what he did ... the only chance the east has of him keeping his word is forcing an election and only allowing him a minority government. Because rest assured he will forget the east exists with a majority. And this eastern liberal establishment you speak of? How many Newfoundland prime ministers have there been? Zero. How many Newfoundland supreme court judges have there been? Zero. When cuts are made in Crown Corporations and Civil Service where do most get cut to? Newfoundland ... on a per capita basis we have the least of those civil service jobs you speak of .. Both parties dont give a rats derriere about newfoundland because we only have 7 seats .... but when it comes to our oil, our lumber, our iron ore, our water, our electricity, both parties have no problem using their majorities to legislate them away from us though ... Let Harper give us a corridor through Quebec (as is our right in the constitution) and let him live up to his promise of not including non-renewable resources in the equalization formula and he will get every seat in the east. But he won't ...cause he is a liar.
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Post by princelh on Dec 17, 2006 19:58:18 GMT -5
Your making my point, when you look who are appointees to Crown Corporations, etc. All Liberal hacks from Quebec or Ontario. The Supreme Court gets left leaning feminist judges. Quebec gets a 1/3 percentage in the Supreme Court with only 22% of the population. At least the Conservatives gave Peter MacKay an opportunity, to be the leader from the Maritime Provinces. It's not fair, but at least there is an opportunity being advanced, by the Harper Government, to reform the Senate. I've never heard so much whinning from the Liberals about something that needs to be fixed or abolished. It's just an opportunity to tear down the wall of patronage, that the Liberals have been so good at formenting, over the years.
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Post by princelh on Dec 17, 2006 20:04:58 GMT -5
Just one other point on cuts to the Civil Service. I was one of them, under Chretien, here in Ontario. My position ended up in Hull, Quebec, as a patronage plum to garner Quebec votes. I've never had a better job since, living here in Eastern, Ontario. It still rings in my ears, "Vote Liberal, Save Your Job", by co-workers. It only took one year in to his second mandate to see the cuts happen, after promises to the contrary. Jobs were just not cut, they were moved, yet people in the area still voted for them. Blind, Dumb and Stupid, or they just didn't care because it didn't happen to them. Maybe their children growing up might have liked to had one of those positions, that now reside in Quebec.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 17, 2006 20:06:32 GMT -5
The country was built on Christian values and should remain so. If you want to come here, be one of us or stay out! We don't want to become fundamentalist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc., etc. But...but...I am an ATHIEST! Should I pack my bags and leave? Should I throw all those white people I employ out on the street and take a few blocks of Canada with me? Or can I stay because I am a WHITE man driving a Benz? Just for the record..... On the third to last paragraph you are demanding that the country should remain with Christian values and the last paragraph you are throwing Christians out. Dammit, if I was Christian, I wouldn't know if I was to pack my bags or put up a Christmas tree. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ princelh, TH, take the diatribes a notch down.
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Post by princelh on Dec 18, 2006 0:26:06 GMT -5
Your missing the word "fundamentalist". This is where religion can go wrong. We need to have some sort of loose set of values that make the distinction between right and wrong. Christian values are as good as any. Why Christian? Because the majority of the country are Christian, be it Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, etc. We need ethical rules to live by, or we sink in to anarchy.
On packing your bags and leaving, that's up to you? It's your free choice, since you already live here and aren't coming here from elsewhere and imposing your beliefs that were aquired in another region of the world. Join us, as Canadians, don't try and change us.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 18, 2006 7:53:33 GMT -5
We need ethical rules to live by, or we sink in to anarchy. Yes we do need ethical rules ... but why do they have to be Christian, or religious rules for that matter? Common sense ethical rules are just as applicable. I want a plasma TV ... my neighbour has a plasma TV. Do I rob his since I cant afford one? If I owned one would I want him to rob mine ... hmm no I wouldn't. So how do I get one ...maybe I try saving for one and appreciate it more. No church, no talk of heaven or hell, just good common sense approach to living in a community. But neglecting that .. we also have another set of rules we can live by which are just as effective for not letting the world/ canada fall into anarchy ..... it is called the Criminal Code of Canada. Again no church needed.
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Post by franko on Dec 18, 2006 9:50:04 GMT -5
We need ethical rules to live by, or we sink in to anarchy. Yes we do need ethical rules ... but why do they have to be Christian, or religious rules for that matter? Common sense ethical rules are just as applicable. I want a plasma TV ... my neighbour has a plasma TV. Do I rob his since I cant afford one? If I owned one would I want him to rob mine ... hmm no I wouldn't. So how do I get one ...maybe I try saving for one and appreciate it more. No church, no talk of heaven or hell, just good common sense approach to living in a community. But neglecting that .. we also have another set of rules we can live by which are just as effective for not letting the world/ canada fall into anarchy ..... it is called the Criminal Code of Canada. Again no church needed. Ah, but Skilly: the Criminal Code was based on a religious/moral code -- in Canada, on Judaic-Christian morals. Sure, those morals have changed over the years (some would say for the better, others for the worse), but the code did not appear from a vacuum or a black hole. Ultimately some things are right and some things are wrong. Who says? Seems that "from the beginning" it was easier to point to "God" (in one of his/her/whatever incarnations) than to reply "I say" (and who are you, anyway?).
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Post by princelh on Dec 18, 2006 10:45:31 GMT -5
Exactly put!
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 18, 2006 22:51:24 GMT -5
Your argument comes right out of the Liberal playbook. You over-exaggerate what the Conservatives are trying to do and call anyone who is a Conservative all kinds of names. It's obvious what you are is what you are. I more accurately am referring to the right wing of the conservative entity. I haven't read a Liberal playbook; I just generally find myself in broad agreement on objecitves and means. Harris? Stockwell Day? Harper? Bush? In varying degrees I find these guys sociopathic. And if you don't think the right wing of the Conservative party leans towards fascism, you should read more and deeper. On the left of the NDP, similarly is the tendancy towards Communism. Where on earth did you think fascists came from? The middle? You don't think Bush is running a country for his little gang, his oligarchy, his "well heeled" and "very well healed"? Your comments on immigrants and foreigners and the suffering blacks in New Orleans and oher "weaklings" are about as fascist as I come across on this board and were the occasion of the reminder that the far right is fascism. Did you think Bush respects democracy. Not a shad.
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