|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 16, 2008 7:18:55 GMT -5
Speculation out of Pittsburgh is that if Hossa is inked long term, then Malkin could be the guy moving. It's no secret that with 3 possible franchise centers on their hand, one day or the other Pittsburgh will have to make a choice. What would you give for this guy? Higgins, MacD, Chipchura and Bouillon? www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_572854.html |
|
|
|
Post by Manton on Jun 16, 2008 7:23:11 GMT -5
All of the above.
|
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jun 16, 2008 7:35:31 GMT -5
Are you kidding me? In a New York minute.
|
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jun 16, 2008 7:46:27 GMT -5
Speculation out of Pittsburgh is that if Hossa is inked long term, then Malkin could be the guy moving. It's no secret that with 3 possible franchise centers on their hand, one day or the other Pittsburgh will have to make a choice. What would you give for this guy? Higgins, MacD, Chipchura and Bouillon? www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_572854.htmlTo get Malkin it would cost us Price. |
|
|
|
Post by halihab on Jun 16, 2008 7:52:52 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that Pittsburgh would sign Hossa over Malkin.
Malkin is a much better player.
|
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jun 16, 2008 7:57:39 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that Pittsburgh would sign Hossa over Malkin. Malkin is a much better player. Yeah but Malkin will cost 11 million, compared to 7 million. |
|
|
|
Post by clear observer on Jun 16, 2008 8:05:58 GMT -5
Speculation out of Pittsburgh is that if Hossa is inked long term, then Malkin could be the guy moving. It's no secret that with 3 possible franchise centers on their hand, one day or the other Pittsburgh will have to make a choice. What would you give for this guy? Higgins, MacD, Chipchura and Bouillon? www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_572854.htmlTo get Malkin it would cost us Price. Plus, plus, plus... |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Jun 16, 2008 8:32:47 GMT -5
Speculation out of Pittsburgh is that if Hossa is inked long term, then Malkin could be the guy moving. It's no secret that with 3 possible franchise centers on their hand, one day or the other Pittsburgh will have to make a choice. What would you give for this guy? Higgins, MacD, Chipchura and Bouillon? www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_572854.htmlTo get Malkin it would cost us Price. They already have Fleury who got them to the Finals. They have their young goalie. At this point in their careers, (I know it's early) Fleury has done more. It would cost a lot but Price wouldn't be in the mix. |
|
|
|
Post by CrocRob on Jun 16, 2008 8:38:09 GMT -5
It's a tough call, really.
To get Malkin, I imagine we'd have to shred our depth. I doubt Price would be involved because MAF has turned into a solid goalie in his own right. Both Kostitsyns and Komisarek (who seems to be coveted by most all Pittsburgh fans)?
I can't say I'd be jumping up and down for joy at the prospect of it. Given another couple seasons, I might prefer to have those three than one Malkin, since we aren't drowning in scoring forwards among our prospects.
Who's to say that one 100 point scorer is better than two 70 point scorers, and a solid defenseman, all of whom might cost the same combined as Malkin? I can't really have an opinion unless I knew the package, and took a solid look at how we could fill the voids being vacated by the trade. Given my Moneyball style of armchair GM'ing, I'd rather have a bunch of guys at a lower payroll level (and better value) than put all my eggsdollars into one basketMalkin.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 10:20:24 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that Pittsburgh would sign Hossa over Malkin. Malkin is a much better player. Not to mention younger with far more upside. Why would Pittsburgh give him up as opposed to Hossa? Makes no sense to me... |
|
|
|
Post by HABsurd on Jun 16, 2008 11:24:43 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that Pittsburgh would sign Hossa over Malkin. Malkin is a much better player. Not to mention younger with far more upside. Why would Pittsburgh give him up as opposed to Hossa? Makes no sense to me... Maybe to save money? Am I the only one who feels that Malkin plays better without Crosby around and vise versa? If true that could be a another reason. |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 16, 2008 11:25:39 GMT -5
It's a tough call, really. To get Malkin, I imagine we'd have to shred our depth. I doubt Price would be involved because MAF has turned into a solid goalie in his own right. Both Kostitsyns and Komisarek (who seems to be coveted by most all Pittsburgh fans)? I can't say I'd be jumping up and down for joy at the prospect of it. Given another couple seasons, I might prefer to have those three than one Malkin, since we aren't drowning in scoring forwards among our prospects. Who's to say that one 100 point scorer is better than two 70 point scorers, and a solid defenseman, all of whom might cost the same combined as Malkin? I can't really have an opinion unless I knew the package, and took a solid look at how we could fill the voids being vacated by the trade. Given my Moneyball style of armchair GM'ing, I'd rather have a bunch of guys at a lower payroll level (and better value) than put all my eggsdollars into one basketMalkin. ...as Bugsy says in an other thread, we are, IMO, in a situation right now where we can afford to sacrifice a little depth to gain in quality. We have a lot of young talented forwards already on the team with Latendresse, Lapierre, Higgins, the 2 Kosts and Pleks... We have Chip knocking at the door, we have MaxPac who seem to be a sure thing, we have 2 highly talented young goalies, we have a lot of quality young dmen in the system and we know that Timmins will keep pumping in good prospects. A lot of good/very good players but we are missing a thoroughbred or 2 though. Koivu seem to have already tailed off and while Kovalev last year played like a franchise forward, he's not getting any younger as well. Last year Gainey did try to trade a little of that depth for guys like Hossa and Sundin... Frankly speaking I would much rather land a young Malkin if were to sacrifice some talented youth in a trade. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jun 16, 2008 11:34:21 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe that Pittsburgh would sign Hossa over Malkin. Malkin is a much better player. Not to mention younger with far more upside. Why would Pittsburgh give him up as opposed to Hossa? Makes no sense to me... The article answers your questions: By keeping Staal [along with Crosby], the Penguins would potentially have a Mark Messier-type to complement their Wayne Gretzky (Crosby).
Two very different styles. Two very different roles.
Malkin, on the other hand, plays pretty much the same role as Crosby -- and that can be problematic in, say, a power-play situation, where only one of them can run the show from the half-wall.
Besides, if it comes to choosing between Malkin and Staal, Staal would be cheaper (though not cheap), and Malkin would fetch a better return in a trade. Not that I'd advocate dealing a 21-year-old wunderkind who might turn out to be the best hockey player on the planet, but from a Penguins' perspective, this seems like a logical train of thought.
Meantime, even if the Hossa deal falls through, how long will Malkin want to play rhythm guitar instead of lead? Sure, he might become the best player in the world, but he's never going to be the man in Pittsburgh.
Malkin's not the one with the 'C' on his jersey. He's not the one who might get a $50 million winger. He's not the one who lives with the owner. He's not the one who runs the power play, and he's not the one whose job description includes saving the NHL.
Though the two appear to get along just fine, nobody can predict the dynamic over time when two elite-level players share the same locker room. |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Jun 16, 2008 11:34:59 GMT -5
Not to mention younger with far more upside. Why would Pittsburgh give him up as opposed to Hossa? Makes no sense to me... Maybe to save money? Am I the only one who feels that Malkin plays better without Crosby around and vise versa? If true that could be a another reason. ...as the article suggests, having 2 franchise centers on board is nice but both will want to be THE guy. And while all the talk is around Crosby/Malkin, there is a 3rd guy there, Staal, who goes under the radar but could probably be a #1 center as well if given the opportunity. Clearly, they won't be able to fit everyone in their payroll and from what I've seen in the playoffs, keeping Hossa and gaining top quality depth byt trading Malkin makes sense as well. |
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jun 16, 2008 11:37:04 GMT -5
A lot of good/very good players but we are missing a thoroughbred or 2 though. Gotta make a decision: hang on to all this "depth", or manage resources. I go for the second door. Heck, I'd throw in a first or two . . . if we keep playing well enough to stay in the middle of the pack we'll likely not hit a home run in the draft anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 16, 2008 13:51:23 GMT -5
Malkin is a Russian who can leave at any time for employment in his native land.
Malkin is a special talent and he is young.
Hossa won't cost anything in trade.
Did I mention Malkin is special and young?
I would give up a lot to get Malkin.
Hossa is a very good player, a mersonary that plied his trade for several teams, always delivering the goods.
Very good but not special.
I'd go with the Special Olympian, Malkin.
|
|
|
|
Post by cigarviper on Jun 16, 2008 16:28:13 GMT -5
That's a lot of eggs in one basket. I prefer depth over one line wonders. You are are one serious injury away from having nothing. While I would relish the thought of Malkin on the team we have to be realistic and look at the big picture.
|
|
|
|
Post by CrocRob on Jun 16, 2008 21:02:27 GMT -5
That's a lot of eggs in one basket. I prefer depth over one line wonders. You are are one serious injury away from having nothing. While I would relish the thought of Malkin on the team we have to be realistic and look at the big picture. What he said. The overarching question for me is: Do we actually get better in a trade for Malkin, or do we just get a superstar to satisfy our desires? |
|
|
|
Post by cigarviper on Jun 16, 2008 21:34:14 GMT -5
Having said that, as a UFA and with so many younguns coming up, I'd have no problem in offering him the league max, but so would an aweful lot of other teams. A trade makes little sense given the cost.
|
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jun 16, 2008 21:38:38 GMT -5
And yet we have all these vaunted assets that are strong enough to help us be good but not great -- and some/many of them will never break into the NHL on the Habs -- why not use them for something? Or are we saving them for this coming year's trade deadline when we wrest Prince Vinny from TBay?
The only way we are going to get a star -- super or not -- is to trade for one. And we may have to give to get -- let's face it, Ryder, Locke, and the rights to Zhogin are bot going to fetch much. If we want a bona-fide we are going to have to be willing to let someone and a first go the other way -- after all, Mike Milbury isn't a GM any more.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 16, 2008 21:56:56 GMT -5
Speculation out of Pittsburgh is that if Hossa is inked long term, then Malkin could be the guy moving. It's no secret that with 3 possible franchise centers on their hand, one day or the other Pittsburgh will have to make a choice. What would you give for this guy? Higgins, MacD, Chipchura and Bouillon? www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_572854.htmlTo get Malkin it would cost us Price. I wonder if they'd ask for Price when they already have Fleury. Either way, the cost would be expensive: * Higgins, * Komisarek, * Pacioretty, * Chipchura, and * a 1st rounder just for kicks and giggles. Malkin is only going to get better, though my pick would be Jordan Staal if I had the choice and Pittsburgh would let him go. For him I'd offer: * Plekanec, * PK Subban, (if they needed a defenceman right away I'd offer up Franky instead), and * a conditional draft choice. Just having fun with it. Cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by cigarviper on Jun 16, 2008 22:14:54 GMT -5
Ryder, Halak and a 2nd?
Okay, old joke.
|
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Jun 16, 2008 23:36:16 GMT -5
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Oh Lord, YES !
I mean, while depth is a great thing to have, being able to build around a young superstar is even better.
Anyone other than Sergei Kostitsyn and Carey Price would be very much on the table, and even they could be made available if they're what the Pens really want....
Andrei Kostitsyn (or Higgins, their call), O'Byrne (or Gorges), Halak and a couple of firsts (replaceable with either MaxPac or McD)?
A useful player, a decent young D, and a hot prospect.... for a young franchise center, seems cheap....
---
As to why PIT would do this - they sold the farm for Hossa, and now might lose him for nothing. Re-signing him and trading Malkin gives them a chance to rebuild some depth. And when you have Hossa, Crosby, Fleury and Staal, it's reasonable to think in terms of adding all-around depth rather than keeping 5 superstars surrounded by journeymen...
|
|
|
|
Post by Skilly on Jun 17, 2008 7:13:47 GMT -5
I don't think it would cost as much as everyone os suggesting ...
Higgins (any deal for a star will involve Higgins, bank on it), Komi (it will also include a bons-fide top 2 d-man), and 2 firsts.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheHabsfan on Jun 17, 2008 7:30:57 GMT -5
I don't think it would cost as much as everyone os suggesting ... Higgins (any deal for a star will involve Higgins, bank on it), Komi (it will also include a bons-fide top 2 d-man), and 2 firsts. I agree with the cost....I don't agree with making the deal though. Komo is as untouchable as we have on this team IMO. Losing him opens a huge hole on the back end. I personally think there are better ways to spend 11M dollars. THF |
|
|
|
Post by jkr on Jun 17, 2008 8:15:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by The New Guy on Jun 17, 2008 8:32:37 GMT -5
Would I deal for Malkin? I imagine you have to. He's a great talent and is a game maker. Malkin is one of those players that can take a team over his shoulders and carry them to victory. He's that good.
However, I don't see it happening for us. We may want him, but if Malkin goes on the market every GM and their puppy skippy is going to be gunning for him. Every GM is going to want that game-breaker, that phenomenal talent. And in a bidding war, I don't think we can win. I don't think we want to win.
Picture this. 1992. The grand old girl herself - the Montreal Forum. The NHL Entry Draft. One year after being drafted by the Nordiques another phenom - named Eric Lindros - is traded to both the New York Rangers and the Philadelphia Flyers. After the dust settles, the Flyers are declared to be the winners of the Lindros sweepstakes. Going to Quebec were Forsberg, Hextall, Ricci, Huffman, Duchesne, two first round picks (Thibault & one later traded to Toronto and even later traded to Washington Baumgartner) as well as 15 million dollars. Now, I know the Lindros trade wasn't the only factor in Colorado's later success - but it brought the team quite a bit - Forsberg, one of the key players in the later Roy Trade (*spit*) and a nice infusion of cash. How many times have the Flyers won the cup since that trade?
A bidding war is good news only for the seller. For us - maybe, maybe Malkin transforms this team into a contender. And if the Pens come to us and say we want the following parts for Malkin (Higgins, Plekanec, Halak, O'Byrne and a few firsts or whatever) and it's reasonable - then do the deal. But it'd be insanity to go after him with our heads down into a bidding war. Leave that to the other teams.
|
|
|
|
Post by franko on Jun 17, 2008 8:39:56 GMT -5
it'd be insanity to go after him with our heads down into a bidding war. Leave that to the other teams. Agree. Totally. But we are being narrow here: would you trade? Answer yes. The question we aren't really avoiding: how much? Answer: not as much as it would (in all likely hood) take. But it's the end of June . . .we're allowed to dram. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Polarice on Jun 17, 2008 8:41:58 GMT -5
If that was the case the deal could include Higgins, Plecks, plus 2 first rounders. I could live with that!! |
|
|
|
Post by CrocRob on Jun 17, 2008 9:15:23 GMT -5
I could probably stomach a deal that didn't involve the Kostitsyn brothers. As much as we have depth, as far as offensive prospects go, we don't have many that have that kind of potential. Pacioretty is about the only one.
|
|
