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Post by blny on Dec 16, 2003 13:08:09 GMT -5
It's a few days after the fact, but I recall hearing/reading somewhere that Lecavalier may not be happy in Tortorella's system in TBay. It seems to me it may have been a comment by a 'caster either during hilights of the recent Habs/Lightning game, but I may be wrong. I do remember that the comment arose from the fact that Vinny has been quite this year.
I'm sure many recall the rumours that floated around a couple of years ago that had Vinny coming to Montreal for Hackett, and that Savard didn't want to do the deal. If this were the case, that Vinny were maybe available and Gainey were looking, would you like the idea of having him in the lineup?
Vinny has a lot of skill, and good size (though he doesn't use it). Personally, I think it'd be a nice upgrade that Gainey may be able to pawn off a Ribs/prospect/pick for. Remember that Feester is the dolt that essentially traded Pitkanen for Fedotenko.
I may be beating a dead horse on this, but I am curious to know what people think. So ....
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Post by Douper on Dec 16, 2003 15:25:39 GMT -5
In a heartbeat....Ribs, Hossa, 1st....whatever we can for Vinny L any time!
He would be awesome as our #1 center, this would bring Koivu down to a more Natural #2 which would open the ice for Saku more. Vincent would be the most popular player on the team. (Fans point of view) And he could become a hero in Quebec a marketing jewel. I would do it no questions asked....
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Post by Psycorp on Dec 16, 2003 15:56:09 GMT -5
1- lecavalier isn't available 2-if he was, we would have to overpay badly But as you said it's just for the sake of discussion so: Yes, i would want him badly and would be ready to overpay (even my favorite player Komisarek  ouch that would hurt) But Tempa will want a top 4 dman and we don't have much of those, the only ones with any kind of value are Souray and Markov I also read on spector today that Tempa gm is searching for a powerforward able to grind in the corners the only one who look a little like a PF is Zednik So : Markov/Souray + Zednik and a high draft choice would be the kind of return Tempa would settle for... a very steep price but i would still do it. |
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Post by Habit on Dec 16, 2003 16:53:38 GMT -5
I remember the TB GM saying he would want a "Poor man's PF". That could be Ryder!! Ryder might be considered a future Poor man's PF.
Ryder, Markov and a 1st and 2nd?
Don't know if I would do it. Heard their looking for LD too.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Dec 16, 2003 17:03:07 GMT -5
Like most posters on this board, I would seriously overpay in order to get Prince Vince over here.
Markov/Hainsey + Ward/Ryder + 1st in 2004.
If all it took was Fedetenko to get Pitkanen, then IMO this proposition sounds reasonable.
I also heard that Lecavalier is not getting along well with Tortorella. Seems as though those two have never really gotten along. Oh well, if he is available and BG can manage to get him, it would start off the Bob Gainey era with a BANG!
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Post by Forum Ghost on Dec 24, 2003 14:13:23 GMT -5
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Post by PTH on Dec 24, 2003 22:24:21 GMT -5
Like most posters on this board, I would seriously overpay in order to get Prince Vince over here. Markov/Hainsey + Ward/Ryder + 1st in 2004. If all it took was Fedetenko to get Pitkanen, then IMO this proposition sounds reasonable. I don't think your offer is overpaying.... Zednik, Markov and Komisarek is closer to what I think would be the best we could get away with, with luck. Not dealing Saku or José and getting Vinny would be very difficult IMO. |
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Post by blaise on Dec 25, 2003 0:07:59 GMT -5
There won't be a trade, at least not this one. But if LeCavalier is available, go for it! As Sam Pollock always said, the winner in a trade is the one who gets the best player. LeCavalier would automatically be that player. Without blinking, I would give Tampa Bay the choice of any three forwards, either on the roster, in Hamilton, or unsigned. How about Ribeiro plus the choice of any two of Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin, Balej, Plekanec, Higgins, Hossa, Zednik, Ryder, and Dagenais. They could also take Koivu instead of Ribeiro if that suited them, but I doubt they would because of his age and salary. If the Lightning preferred to substitute a young defenseman for one of the abovenamed forwards, that would be OK too.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Dec 26, 2003 15:57:49 GMT -5
I don't think your offer is overpaying.... Zednik, Markov and Komisarek is closer to what I think would be the best we could get away with, with luck. Not dealing Saku or José and getting Vinny would be very difficult IMO. Sorry, my post was a tad bit misleading. Although I wouldn't mind if BG overpaid for Vinny, my proposed offer of Hainsey/Markov + Ward/Ryder + 1st in 2004 is what I think is a reasonable offer. It's not an offer that I consider to be overpaying. I just hold out the hope that if Lecavalier is available, he might be had without overpaying, considering that we're dealing with the same GM who dealt Joni Pitkanen for Ruslan Fedetenko and two picks. But in actuality, in order to land Vinny, BG would have to overpay for him, which as you suggested, would involve giving up players such as Theo, Komo and Koivu. |
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Post by AH on Dec 26, 2003 16:50:46 GMT -5
I will be the first one to say it ...
We don't need Vinny. The last I checked, our top 2 centres are headed for 60 point seasons. If anything, we need a third line center with grit and Vinny does not fit the bill.
I will go back to what BG said when asked about Comrie. He said something to the effect that "when you inquire about a player, you have to really make sure he is that much better than what you already have. "
Obviously Comrie is better than Ribeiro but according to BG, he was not that much better that we had to sacrifice a Ron Hainsey to get a marginal upgrade. Same with Lecavalier. Is it worth it to go out and sacrifice a couple of VERY good young players on top of a Koivu or Ribeiro to get him ? Not according to me !!!
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Post by BCHab on Dec 26, 2003 17:19:35 GMT -5
I still think we need a true No1 centre but I don't think that Lecavalier is an upgrade on Koivu, all things being equal. Acquiring his services for the price that some have proposed would be Pyrrhic to say the least and perhaps a step back long term. For now, we can't afford to give up the horses to acquire him IMO.
Cheers,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2003 21:16:18 GMT -5
Pass.
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Post by blaise on Dec 27, 2003 0:48:30 GMT -5
I saw a TV game between Boston and Tampa Bay earlier in the season in which LeCavalier totally outplayed Joe Thornton. He's got it in him. Maybe Tortorella is the wrong coach for him.
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 27, 2003 15:59:23 GMT -5
I'm on the three-way, of love...To Montreal: Vincent Lecavalier, Phillip Sauve To Colorado: Nikolai Khabibulin, Alexander Svitov, Montreal's 1st round pick To Tampa Bay: Alex Tanguay, Mike Ribeiro, Mathieu Garon, Chris Higgins For Montreal, the benefits are clear and evident. Lecavalier is the big center we need/want, and he is perhaps the one guy in the league not named Mario for whom most of the media would be happy trading Ribeiro for. Garon for Sauve is a wash. Losing Higgins and the 1st rounder hurts, but Lecavalier is young enough that we don't need Higgins at center, and we have enough prospects on the wing to compensate. Its a weak draft year, so the 1st isn't a big deal. (Montreal gives Ribeiro, Garon, Higgins, 1st, Montreal gets Lecavalier, Sauve)For Tampa, they get immediate help in top scorer Tanguay, a decent center to replace Lecavalier in Ribeiro (though not with the same upside), a goalie in Garon who should push John Grahame for the starting job (that's a nice duo, by the way, Grahame and Garon) and a top prospect in Higgins, for the future. Tanguay is playing better than Lecavalier, so they get better in the short term, and don't sacrifice their playoff goals. (Tampa gives Lecavalier, Svitov, Tampa gets Tanguay, Ribeiro, Garon, Higgins)For Colorado, they get a proven goalie in Khabibulin, without losing Abeisheir (sp?) who is still their future. They don't need Sauve. Losing Tanguay hurts, especially with the great start he is off to, but offense really isn't a problem for the Avs, especially with Forsberg now coming back. Svitov, gets out of the "hell he is rotting in" and gets a new chance in the Mile High City. The 1st rounder from Montreal is just gravy. (Colorado gives Tanguay and Sauve, Colorado gets Khabibulin, Svitov, Montreal's 1st)Talent wise, I think Colorado gets the short end of the stick. But I am making a major assumption here, and that assumption is that Colorado is fishing around for a proven goalie for a playoff run. They could, and probably will, just go with Aebeisheir (I should look up at that spelling), but we are just speculating, right? I'm not sure if they are as high on Tanguay as his numbers would indicate they should be - he always seems to be mentioned in trade rumours. Tampa gives up a lot, but they save money, and get some decent, young, NHL talent in return. Mind you, they would be really, really small up front. Montreal gives up nothing of importance, and makes out like bandits. Just the way we like it, right? 
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Post by BCHab on Dec 27, 2003 18:17:54 GMT -5
Nicely done... For the sake of discussion, some idle speculation from the media says that Tampa is looking for an offensive defenseman. Hainsey instead of Higgins perhaps too much? Also, I'm thinking that Colorado, as a potential Cup contender this year, might want an established offensive player instead of a first round pick to make up for the some of the shortfall caused by Tanguay's departure. My two cents...
Cheers,
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Post by seventeen on Dec 28, 2003 1:22:10 GMT -5
My immediate reaction, BC, is that this is a dream deal for Lacroix. He gets the goalie he needs and a potential stud at centre while giving up a scorer he doesn't need (he has plenty) and a goalie he isn't using. I think Tampa's getting ripped, which means they might fall for it. The Habs come out ok, but I'd love to just do a deal for Vinnie and/or Svitov.
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Post by HFTO on Dec 28, 2003 10:29:04 GMT -5
Your definitely looking at Zednik either Komo or Hainsey plus either a Hossa or Ribs plus a pick IMO.TB will want to fill the cupboard.As much as i would like Vinny how will he handle the pressure of playing here?He also won't be going into a better position wiyh this club.If we have to give up any of our scoring how potent would Vinny be in the short term.I got news for him he'll be playing in as much as a defense first team than in T.Bay.
Vinny's gonna have to learn to play D somewhere,so who'sto say he'd thrive here with the added attention and a offensivly challenged team.As much as I think we need a true superstar in this situation we may want to be careful for what we wish for.
HFTO
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 28, 2003 23:38:17 GMT -5
Doc's dream would be reality. It's fun to speculate about this if nothing else. I would love to have Vinny in Montreal. Marketing, hometown boy comes home, yadda, yadda, yadda ...
However, would Tampa move Lecavalier? I don't think they would actually. While he has a decent supporting cast, he's the guy who puts people in the rink down there.
But, all of that aside, hey, the Oilers traded Gretzky didn't they?
Cheers.
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Post by blaise on Jan 3, 2004 23:30:04 GMT -5
The last I checked, our top 2 centres are headed for 60 point seasons. Probably neither will make it, but Koivu has a better chance. AH said of one of my early forecasts: "At the start of the year, if I remember your posts correctly, the Rangers, the Sabres, and even the Blue Jackets were better teams than the Habs ..." I completely misjudged the the Blue Jackets at the start of the season, but the Rangers are in the thick of it and should not be dismissed. As for the Sabres, they have come to life and could make a run. They are now only 6 points behind the Habs. Not long ago they trailed badly. |
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Post by blaise on Jan 3, 2004 23:42:58 GMT -5
I still think we need a true No1 centre but I don't think that Lecavalier is an upgrade on Koivu, all things being equal. Acquiring his services for the price that some have proposed would be Pyrrhic to say the least and perhaps a step back long term. For now, we can't afford to give up the horses to acquire him IMO. Cheers, If all of the Habs' leading prospects at the forward positions mature at approximately the same time, there will be a glut. Will there be room for Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin, Plekanec, Higgins, Balej, Hossa, Urquhart, Lapierre, and perhaps others on a team that already has Koivu, Bulis, Ribeiro, Zednik, Ryder, Ward, Dagenais, and Bégin? (I left out Perreault, Juneau, Dackell, Sundstrom, and Langdon because they would be expendable, although I could have deleted Dagenais from the prospect list.) Couldn't the Habs spare a few of them to acquire Lecavalier and install him as the #1 center? He's a young player with a long career ahead of him. |
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Post by JL on Jan 4, 2004 3:53:40 GMT -5
I got news for him he'll be playing in as much as a defense first team than in T.Bay. Vinny's gonna have to learn to play D somewhere,so who'sto say he'd thrive here with the added attention and a offensivly challenged team.As much as I think we need a true superstar in this situation we may want to be careful for what we wish for. HFTO You've got a point here. But Lecavalier was quoted saying that he'd love to play in Montreal. He's from there and knows about the pressure. He would see this as a second chance, a new beginning. And don't worry, the media would be there to remind him about his play (defensive or offensive)... The difference is that Julien doesn't put his players down in front of the media, like Tortorella is famous for. Tampa Bay wants a defenseman, so put Markov or Hainsey into the mix, along side one of our top two centerman and a draft pick. But having said that, Gainey said that he wanted a right handed center. Something tells me that he's going for someone he knows well... Jason Arnott? |
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Post by PTH on Jan 4, 2004 4:45:02 GMT -5
If all of the Habs' leading prospects at the forward positions mature at approximately the same time, there will be a glut. Will there be room for Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin, Plekanec, Higgins, Balej, Hossa, Urquhart, Lapierre, and perhaps others on a team that already has Koivu, Bulis, Ribeiro, Zednik, Ryder, Ward, Dagenais, and Bégin? (I left out Perreault, Juneau, Dackell, Sundstrom, and Langdon because they would be expendable, although I could have deleted Dagenais from the prospect list.) Couldn't the Habs spare a few of them to acquire Lecavalier and install him as the #1 center? He's a young player with a long career ahead of him. This is the kind of thinking any team could have - everyone has a lot of prospects, there are 9 rounds of drafting for every team each year. Let's not clear prospects to make room for the other kids, unless we have a real reason to beleive that they'll be making it. We traded Schneider and Desjardins because Kiprusoff and Brisebois were going to take their place as top offensive defensemen. Things don't always work out the way you think they should. |
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ouch that would hurt)
