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Post by Cranky on Sept 3, 2008 9:41:39 GMT -5
Dis, I am talking about the US's and West economic survival. Not Russias. Here's what I mean TNG ... sometimes it happens mate. DAG NAMIT! Sigh! Had to reread your post, HA. Got you now, man. Thanks. I don't have a lot of time on my hands this morning HA. I'm only skimming right now (freakin' busy here at work even before 8 AM), but here's some observations anyway. OK, just accessed the title to the BBC column. Reminds me of the movie, "Pacific Heights". I can also recall their reference to Saudi Arabia turning off the taps to the USA. It backfired because there were other sources of oil the USA could turn to. However, in this instance, Russia has plenty of other customers willing to buy their oil. The article concludes that the world is waiting to see how Russia uses their petro-power. I can see this being a threat to the USA for the reasons I cited earlier. The second article uses some of the same examples and makes similar observations and conclusions but like I said I only skimmed through it. I see the two columns as pretty close to the same thing. Will go over them more later but they seem far too similar in that they almost look like they were written by the same staff. Cheers. It's not only those articles Dis, they have done it to Ukraine, etc. Putin has absolutely no qualms about using energy as a weapon. Google Ukaraine, energy, Russia for starters. |
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Post by Cranky on Sept 3, 2008 9:47:36 GMT -5
Unless the nation is a tightly controlled autocracy straight from the wet dreams of Stalin himself, no nation speaks with one voice. There you go, you win the Putin doll....complete with KGB ribbons in his hair and Stalin memoirs in his hands. I don't have time to discuss this cause I'm heading off to Europe. |
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Post by Cranky on Sept 3, 2008 10:04:30 GMT -5
Tell us about the new teaching manuals. The one that claim that the Sovviet collapse "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century". LOL! Funny thing though, the eastern European countries consider it one of the GREATEST moment in their history. Is it a teaching manual? I thought it was Putin who said it. It could end up in the manuals of course. I can see his point. He was born and raised in a huge influential country (an empire) that suddenly collapsed. Many people think it was a real tragedy; it changed their lives. They want their children to remember it. Can you please find what British teaching manuals say about the British Empire and its collapse? I wonder what Spaniards think about their long gone Empire. As for Eastern Europeans, it would be a generalization to think that they all agree on the matter. But let them write their own teaching manuals. My question about Stalin stands. You didn’t answer it. And whom is Russia planning to invade? NATO is coming closer to its borders not the other way around. Seriously….you think Russia is plotting an attack on some eastern European country? Their political elites have their own agenda to say what they say. What’s your point? That it was a horrible war? It was but they are still trying to live their lives now. Why do some people want them to start fighting again? Oh…I was under the impression that they are trying to use the western model of democracy. That is why they need the US and NATO protection. At least it is what Western politicians and mass media is saying. Silly me. Tell me when it happened. I know nothing of such cases but I live in an evil empire that has no free press. Edit: I saw your links. I didn't see any examples of any REPEATED use of energy as a weapon. On the contrary, they both state that Russia has always been a reliable partner for Western Europe. Looks like western media and politicians want to scare their general public in an attempt to justify their agenda. As for Ukraine, you reap what you saw. I asked about Crimea. What does Kazakhstan have to do with it? The reality here that this has nothing to do with anyone threatening Russia, but rather a pure power play for hegemony. What about threat to Russia to achieve this hegemony? And vice versa. Everybody wants to rule the world.I don't have a lot of time to discuss every point. Very quickly.... -Who wants Chechnya to start fighting again? They already suffered enough from the Russian umm.....peacekeeping. -Energy...If you missed the repeated part then you missed Ukraine, what is happening in Europe, etc. -Good sarcasm on the democracy issue but in the end of the day, if the people people in the West don't want to see any more George Bush, Chretien, etc, they just vote them out AND their party. On the other hand, Russia will never stop seeing Putin and company. Russia has no history of democracy so I guess this is "progress". Please note that this had NOTHING to do with Russian people, it's about the politics and governments. Putin was great at the beginning and did serve the Russian people BUT power corrupts....and that is why "leaders" must WALK AWAY TOTALLY from power every 8 years. We should do this in Canada too. |
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Post by Skilly on Sept 3, 2008 11:38:39 GMT -5
and that is why "leaders" must WALK AWAY TOTALLY from power every 8 years. We should do this in Canada too. Which is a good sequeue for me to promote my new books .... "How to Rule the World in 8 Short Years" and "World Domination for Dummies" ... in a bookstore near you soon.  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 3, 2008 12:00:50 GMT -5
Here's what I mean TNG ... sometimes it happens mate. DAG NAMIT! Sigh! Had to reread your post, HA. Got you now, man. Thanks. I don't have a lot of time on my hands this morning HA. I'm only skimming right now (freakin' busy here at work even before 8 AM), but here's some observations anyway. OK, just accessed the title to the BBC column. Reminds me of the movie, "Pacific Heights". I can also recall their reference to Saudi Arabia turning off the taps to the USA. It backfired because there were other sources of oil the USA could turn to. However, in this instance, Russia has plenty of other customers willing to buy their oil. The article concludes that the world is waiting to see how Russia uses their petro-power. I can see this being a threat to the USA for the reasons I cited earlier. The second article uses some of the same examples and makes similar observations and conclusions but like I said I only skimmed through it. I see the two columns as pretty close to the same thing. Will go over them more later but they seem far too similar in that they almost look like they were written by the same staff. Cheers. It's not only those articles Dis, they have done it to Ukraine, etc. Putin has absolutely no qualms about using energy as a weapon. Google Ukaraine, energy, Russia for starters. I'm really pressed for time (3 minutes) but the only thing I could offer on this HA, would be that we have world leaders who regard oil reserves as their own. They may veil this with other 'substantiation' but in the end it's about "who controls the spice" as you say. (great analogy again BTW). Cheers. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Sept 3, 2008 16:48:24 GMT -5
The actual problem is between two Alpha Males. One is called the USA and the other Russia. The USA has NATO and ever since the Warsaw Pact Alliance dissolved the Russians have had nothing. They've tried the BRICS strategic alliance but I don't know if South Africa either dropped out of it or was never part of it. Right now it's simply called the BRIC Alliance. This is all about the USA working behind the scenes to protect their self-proclaimed Superpower status and the Russians trying to re-establish their status. Two Alpha Males butting heads. It was that way before the wall came down and it's becoming that way once again. Cheers. It soon will be an alpha male and a PTA housewife/town mayor/ governor of the 47th biggest state one hartbeat (a weak one at that) away from the presidency. The US has to be strong. No phony bluffing or words they won't support with actions. We can't have Ribeiro threatening to knock off Zdeno Chara's head and then turning turtle awaiting the referees protection. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Sept 3, 2008 20:22:23 GMT -5
The actual problem is between two Alpha Males. One is called the USA and the other Russia. The USA has NATO and ever since the Warsaw Pact Alliance dissolved the Russians have had nothing. They've tried the BRICS strategic alliance but I don't know if South Africa either dropped out of it or was never part of it. Right now it's simply called the BRIC Alliance. This is all about the USA working behind the scenes to protect their self-proclaimed Superpower status and the Russians trying to re-establish their status. Two Alpha Males butting heads. It was that way before the wall came down and it's becoming that way once again. Cheers. It soon will be an alpha male and a PTA housewife/town mayor/ governor of the 47th biggest state one hartbeat (a weak one at that) away from the presidency. The US has to be strong. No phony bluffing or words they won't support with actions. We can't have Ribeiro threatening to knock off Zdeno Chara's head and then turning turtle awaiting the referees protection. Well, this is where it begins, HFLA. You feel your country has to be strong and that's a good thing. During the Cold War the USA was very strong, with a strong alliance and a strong economy. Nowadays, the US has lost a lot of their international support and their economy is nowhere near as strong as it was. During the Cold War Russia used to be strong but their economy was floundering. However, they lost a lot of that strength when the Soviet Union dissolved, yet they feel they have to strong again (even if it's only to counter US-led NATO). They have new allies and their economy is definitely on the rise. The USA feels it is in danger of losing their status as the world's only superpower, while the Russians are desperately trying to re-achieve their superpower status. Some countries now perceive the USA as a bully. Yet, it's the same way many of the former Soviet satellite countries feel about Russia. So, where are we now? Mutual distrust on both sides that are drawing their alliances in with them. Caught in the middle of this power struggle are Georgia and South Ossetia. They are the most recent play things for what the real agendas are, IMO. And, like the pawns on a chess board, they're also expendable. Not that the USA or Russia really care much about that. It's all about them I feel. My solution? Let's restart the Cold War and refortify Europe regardless what the EU says. We'll re-implement the Forward Defence policy and have military build-ups that will stay in place for the next ... oh, I don't know ... 40-odd years or so. Maybe Dis Jr and his generation will be privy to someone taking a sledgehammer to a portion of the Great Wall of China, who knows. But the same scenario is developing once again. Smoke and mirrors, mate ... smoke and mirrors. Just my opinion though. Cheers. |
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Post by The New Guy on Sept 4, 2008 8:40:02 GMT -5
There you go, you win the Putin doll....complete with KGB ribbons in his hair and Stalin memoirs in his hands. I don't have time to discuss this cause I'm heading off to Europe. Putin may want to be Stalin. He may want Russia to rise again as Stalin's Soviet Union. But wanting something and having it become real are two very different things. I pull no punches - Putin is as iron fisted as they come. But he is not Stalin, and Stalin wasn't anywhere near where he needed to be to pull off the 'one mind, one voice' type of government. A unified voice of government just can't exist. There's too many people who seek power, and who will work against you to their own benefit. But that's not really what the topic is about, is it? Enjoy your trip to Europe HA! |
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Post by gy on Sept 6, 2008 17:40:39 GMT -5
It's ironic that the best known Georgian of all time was Joseph Djugashvili, better known by his revolutionary name, Joseph Stalin (Man of Steel).
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Post by oldhabsfan on Sept 16, 2008 19:45:31 GMT -5
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Post by The New Guy on Sept 17, 2008 10:09:16 GMT -5
It's ironic that the best known Georgian of all time was Joseph Djugashvili, better known by his revolutionary name, Joseph Stalin (Man of Steel). Perhaps even more ironically, Stalin was half-ethnically Ossetian as well (his father was an Ossetian cobbler, his mother a Georgian serf). Now if only we could all get along like Mr. and Mrs. Djugashvili and put aside our petty difference, the world would be teeming with little Stalins (-: |
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 7, 2008 9:03:09 GMT -5
Hmmm... could the Russians have been the "good guys" in all this? Georgia Claims on Russia War Called into Question[/size] New York Times
TBILISI, Georgia — Newly available accounts by independent military observers of the beginning of the war between Georgia and Russia this summer call into question the longstanding Georgian assertion that it was acting defensively against separatist and Russian aggression.
Georgia moved forces toward the border of the breakaway region of South Ossetia on Aug. 7, at the start of what it called a defensive war with separatists there and with Russian forces.
Instead, the accounts suggest that Georgia’s inexperienced military attacked the isolated separatist capital of Tskhinvali on Aug. 7 with indiscriminate artillery and rocket fire, exposing civilians, Russian peacekeepers and unarmed monitors to harm.The Rest |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 7, 2008 9:57:29 GMT -5
Hmmm... could the Russians have been the "good guys" in all this? Georgia Claims on Russia War Called into Question[/size] New York Times
TBILISI, Georgia — Newly available accounts by independent military observers of the beginning of the war between Georgia and Russia this summer call into question the longstanding Georgian assertion that it was acting defensively against separatist and Russian aggression.
Georgia moved forces toward the border of the breakaway region of South Ossetia on Aug. 7, at the start of what it called a defensive war with separatists there and with Russian forces.
Instead, the accounts suggest that Georgia’s inexperienced military attacked the isolated separatist capital of Tskhinvali on Aug. 7 with indiscriminate artillery and rocket fire, exposing civilians, Russian peacekeepers and unarmed monitors to harm.The Rest[/quote] So they're just printing this now? The Russians probably just rolled their eyeballs when they heard this from Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili: "What Russia is doing in Georgia is open, unhidden aggression and a challenge to the whole world. If the whole world does not stop Russia today, then Russian tanks will be able to reach any other European capital."Please see Nonsense. Cheers. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 7, 2008 13:13:52 GMT -5
Hmmm... could the Russians have been the "good guys" in all this? Georgia Claims on Russia War Called into Question[/size] New York Times
TBILISI, Georgia — Newly available accounts by independent military observers of the beginning of the war between Georgia and Russia this summer call into question the longstanding Georgian assertion that it was acting defensively against separatist and Russian aggression.
Georgia moved forces toward the border of the breakaway region of South Ossetia on Aug. 7, at the start of what it called a defensive war with separatists there and with Russian forces.
Instead, the accounts suggest that Georgia’s inexperienced military attacked the isolated separatist capital of Tskhinvali on Aug. 7 with indiscriminate artillery and rocket fire, exposing civilians, Russian peacekeepers and unarmed monitors to harm.The Rest[/quote] So they're just printing this now? The Russians probably just rolled their eyeballs when they heard this from Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili: "What Russia is doing in Georgia is open, unhidden aggression and a challenge to the whole world. If the whole world does not stop Russia today, then Russian tanks will be able to reach any other European capital."Please see Nonsense. Cheers. [/quote] Not to worry. Obama will speak with them with no pre-conditions and they will hypnotically change their view and thousands of years of tribal animosity. |
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Post by gy on Nov 7, 2008 13:24:49 GMT -5
McCain said, "I'm a Georgian," immediately stamping himself as an unthoughtful flamethrower, an impulsive, shallow thinker who should never have his finger on the red button. I'm glad the Americans elected someone who at least offers stability.
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Post by franko on Nov 7, 2008 13:37:35 GMT -5
Joe the Framer offers stability. Obama is as yet unproven so stability is merely a perception. Bush seemed stable at one time too [and don't say he should have stayed in his stable  ] |
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Post by gy on Nov 7, 2008 14:09:38 GMT -5
Joe the Framer offers stability. Obama is as yet unproven so stability is merely a perception. Bush seemed stable at one time too [and don't say he should have stayed in his stable ] Obama seems to be intent on solving problems and he keeps an even keel and an open mind. Very presidential, I'd say. Bush could not be more rigid if he tried. There's no curing him of his preconceptions. If that's stability, then stability is overrated. |
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Post by franko on Nov 7, 2008 14:48:26 GMT -5
Joe the Framer offers stability. Obama is as yet unproven so stability is merely a perception. Bush seemed stable at one time too [and don't say he should have stayed in his stable ] Obama seems to be intent on solving problems and he keeps an even keel and an open mind. Very presidential, I'd say. Bush could not be more rigid if he tried. There's no curing him of his preconceptions. If that's stability, then stability is overrated. Well, Bush seemed [note that I didn't say that Bush was stable, but that he seemed stable] intent on solving problems too [though what he appears mostly to have done is create a million more]. Obama may actually succeed -- I hope he does. I just think that expectations are so high to begin with that he is bound to disappoint [unfortunately for him]. And Obama does indeed seem to keep an even keel and an open mind . . . I hope that in the end the words of Adhemar to William [and the world's words to Bush] do not ring out for Obama as well: You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. |
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Post by gy on Nov 7, 2008 18:32:04 GMT -5
Canada, as well as a lot of the rest of the world, hopes Obama succeeds in at least starting to reverse the US national debt. It may take all of his first term and all of his second and perhaps half of the next president's first term as well, but it has to be done. The orgy of borrowing will be over.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 7, 2008 22:43:00 GMT -5
Canada, as well as a lot of the rest of the world, hopes Obama succeeds in at least starting to reverse the US national debt. It may take all of his first term and all of his second and perhaps half of the next president's first term as well, but it has to be done. The orgy of borrowing will be over. Can you lend me $5.00? Can you lend me $750,000,000,000.00? That's enough to buy a couple of thousand corvettes in various colors and put them under Oprah's theatre seats, all the houses in Westmount, the Canadiens and the Keg, GM & Ford & Chrysler, Newfoundland & Labrador with enough left over for a Tim Hortons donut for every RCMP constable in Canada. It would almost leave enough for my wife to visit all the yard sales in Beverly Hills and not have to bargain. It's a staggering amount!  |
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