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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 7, 2008 13:01:21 GMT -5
The market just dropped 800 points since Obama was elected. Check history. There is usually a market bounce if the market sees the new president favorably. Obama's welcome was a 10% decline...... I agree with you that Obama's policies are not favorable to business or stockholders. (As a conservative I agree with you in spades) History is not terribly useful in the current environment of excesses and volatility. I own petroleum stocks that are trading at 4 times earnings. Makes little historical sense. |
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Post by gy on Nov 7, 2008 13:15:53 GMT -5
Check history. There is usually a market bounce if the market sees the new president favorably. Obama's welcome was a 10% decline...... I agree with you that Obama's policies are not favorable to business or stockholders. (As a conservative I agree with you in spades) History is not terribly useful in the current environment of excesses and volatility. I own petroleum stocks that are trading at 4 times earnings. Makes little historical sense. What was the alternative? McCain, who's profoundly ignorant of economics? The American people didn't trust him despite his far greater name recognition. |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 7, 2008 13:30:59 GMT -5
Excuse me? Explanation, please and for the record, I'm not a salesmanI dislike snakes, okay? I'm from Newfoundland, pristine country of wonders and NO snakes (or Porcupine, or Skunks....) As for evangelical types, I dislike people who come to me and tell me how to believe in God. Especially when their hands are out for my money. Hey ... There are porcupine in Newfoundland and Labrador .... I ran over enough of the buggers!! |
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 7, 2008 14:08:40 GMT -5
I dislike snakes, okay? I'm from Newfoundland, pristine country of wonders and NO snakes (or Porcupine, or Skunks....) As for evangelical types, I dislike people who come to me and tell me how to believe in God. Especially when their hands are out for my money. Hey ... There are porcupine in Newfoundland and Labrador .... I ran over enough of the buggers!! That's why I said "Newfoundland" and not "Newfoundland and Labrador". Newfoundland being the island part upon which I grew up, and Labrador being the cold part I've never been to (-: Still no snakes there though I don't think. |
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Post by franko on Nov 7, 2008 14:37:31 GMT -5
As for evangelical types, I dislike people who come to me and tell me how to believe in God. Especially when their hands are out for my money. Let me go further, NG . . . and forgive what may be perceived as preachiness [this is gleaned, not original]: Back in the '90s, the book What America Believes asked the public to rank hundreds of societal groups. Televangelists ranked next to last, beating out only drug dealers. Now a recent poll reports the public image of evangelicals as a whole ranks next to last, beating out only prostitutes and just behind lesbians. Instead, people are being offended by the hypocrisy, self-importance and desperate sales gimmicks Christians display through their evangelistic efforts. Televangelism is not evangelism. With its worldwide electronic reach, the cotton-candy gimme-gospel of the televangelists is what most people associate with the word "Christian." The name-it-and-claim-it, gain-is-godliness philosophy behind these programs is the opposite of the gospel Jesus expressed on the cross. This might fill stadiums, but so does Britney Spears. Motivational thinking and sales techniques . . . Getting psyched up is not the same thing as [faith]. You can't sell God the same way you sell cornflakes. but people try . . . boy do they tryI believe in God. I'll talk to people about how I understand God. I'm always open to a discussion. But like you I have a hard time with people who are only trying to put a notch on their belts [Bibles?] Now . . . back to our current Saviour. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 7, 2008 15:11:49 GMT -5
Shoulda, coulda, woulda..........
If Hillary focused on cacuses instead of primaries..
If Tina Faye looked less like Sarah Palin..
If McCain chose Michael Palin instead of Sarah Palin..
If the economy hadn't tanked..
If Osama came out of his hole instead of Punksawtani Pete..
If the Sunnis and Sheites shook hands..
It's Over:
Time to rally around the new president and make the country better.
At this point it's about the economy, the worldwide economy.
We are like the players on the Blackhawks team. Some of us liked Savard, some didn't. Guys who were on the first line may have to play on the third and backcheck. Now we have to work together to win looking forward, not back.
Primaries for 2012 must be coming up soon.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 7, 2008 22:28:22 GMT -5
Because it's not totally unrealistic to believe that Harper is actually, you know, a human-being (or at the very least a close facsimile of one) beneath his stone cold political demeanor. Have you met Harper? I have. Simply put, the guy is dead serious and straight forward. He does not come across like a "I'm gonna tell you what you want to hear" politician. Now, he may be even friendlier after wife swapping or a few drinks but for me, for someone running the country, I preffer have a fairly cold and calculating manner rather then the uber politician type surrounding himself with mirrors. But that's just me.... As for Obama, I'm too old, too cynical, too skeptical to buy into one iota of his hype. Somone who deliberatly gazes into the far horizon (as if pondering) while sneaking peaks at his telempromter is wayyyy too slick for me. So far for me, he is a lawyer with really, really good speech writers and great organizers. That is now over. Now he faces real hell and failure is not an option. |
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 7, 2008 22:37:12 GMT -5
As for evangelical types, I dislike people who come to me and tell me how to believe in God. Especially when their hands are out for my money. Thought that's what you meant. Just bothers me [well known by those who have been here for a while] that the caricature of evangelicals [I'm one, for the record] is that of dull-witted non-thinking knuckle-dragging money-grubbing neanderthals [did I cover everything  ] Non-evangelicals -- non-religious people -- can be just as greedy. As for people telling you how to believe in God . . . sometimes that's a matter of perception [though granted, there are many who are over the top] . . . but discussion is always good. Heck, I'll even discuss hockey with a Leaf fan [not that they know much about it ;D] See, now you're getting into semantics, and that's a tricky, tricky thing. For the record I didn't say (nor did I imply) that evangelicals were dull-witted, non-thinking, knuckle-dragging, neandertals. In fact, I didn't even mention the money grubbing until very late in the game. I don't know what 'type' of evangelical you are. I know what the word means (comes from the Greek Euangelion (or something close to that) which means "one who brings the good news" (trivia: also the root of the word 'angel'). To me, an evangelical is one who comes to town once a year with a big tent, sets up shop and sells the word of God. Perhaps I was exposed to the wrong type of evangelical (I grew up in a very Catholic community in rural Newfoundland, so the selection was not the greatest) but that's my impression of them. Anyways, way off topic. I'll stop here to avoid going any further down a road that probably doesn't need to be explored in this thread. I apologize if I offended you - I clearly didn't mean you (because if you were you would be proselytizing us all even now) but the 'evangelicals' that I know. |
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 7, 2008 22:41:32 GMT -5
Shoulda, coulda, woulda.......... If Hillary focused on cacuses instead of primaries.. If Tina Faye looked less like Sarah Palin.. If McCain chose Michael Palin instead of Sarah Palin.. If the economy hadn't tanked.. If Osama came out of his hole instead of Punksawtani Pete.. If the Sunnis and Sheites shook hands.. It's Over: Time to rally around the new president and make the country better. At this point it's about the economy, the worldwide economy. We are like the players on the Blackhawks team. Some of us liked Savard, some didn't. Guys who were on the first line may have to play on the third and backcheck. Now we have to work together to win looking forward, not back. Primaries for 2012 must be coming up soon. (Stolen from Dave Barry) I understand that New Hampshire, in light of other states pushing up their primaries, will be having their primaries yesterday.... |
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 7, 2008 22:48:07 GMT -5
Because it's not totally unrealistic to believe that Harper is actually, you know, a human-being (or at the very least a close facsimile of one) beneath his stone cold political demeanor. Have you met Harper? I have. Simply put, the guy is dead serious and straight forward. He does not come across like a "I'm gonna tell you what you want to hear" politician. Now, he may be even friendlier after wife swapping or a few drinks but for me, for someone running the country, I preffer have a fairly cold and calculating manner rather then the uber politician type surrounding himself with mirrors. But that's just me.... As for Obama, I'm too old, too cynical, too skeptical to buy into one iota of his hype. Somone who deliberatly gazes into the far horizon (as if pondering) while sneaking peaks at his telempromter is wayyyy too slick for me. So far for me, he is a lawyer with really, really good speech writers and great organizers. That is now over. Now he faces real hell and failure is not an option. I haven't met Harper. I've avoided the Prime Ministerial type since I saw JC in 1999. I managed to avoid them (I was involved with a school group arguing the merits of Confederation fifty years on) but one of the guys in my group was thrown aside quite handily by some of his black-suit wearing cronies. As for him being someone who is not going to tell you what you want to hear to get votes... well, maybe that's something you should think twice of mentioning near myself or Skilly, since we know different. Doesn't matter. He's PM and that's all that can be done. I don't know if any of the people he was running against would be a better pick at this point. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 7, 2008 22:54:19 GMT -5
As for him being someone who is not going to tell you what you want to hear to get votes... well, maybe that's something you should think twice of mentioning near myself or Skilly, since we know different. Doesn't matter. He's PM and that's all that can be done. I don't know if any of the people he was running against would be a better pick at this point. I guess you never had the pleasure of Chretien and his office try to con'vince you to steal what they thought you had. It's a long story.... |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 7, 2008 23:01:35 GMT -5
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Post by franko on Nov 7, 2008 23:43:50 GMT -5
See, now you're getting into semantics, and that's a tricky, tricky thing. Hey, I’m not into any of that kinky stuff! Nope, you didn’t, and I didn’t take it that you did [hence the Thought that's what you meant] I was merely explaining the perspective I was originally coming from – that many people have a negative idea of what an evangelical is because of public performance by a few nut bars over-the-top religious types. HA will be proud of you! It isn’t semantics at all – it’s definition. The big tenter is a revivalist. Used to be the main form of entertainment until television and fantasy sports. There are still some around. Some, unfortunately make big bucks from their hucksterism [dirty rotten snake oil salesmen]: Benny Hinn comes immediately to mind. Billy Graham is a revivalist as well, but he is quiet spoken, plain spoken, and well respected. Some of the others . . . well, I think a hundred years ago they would have been invited out of town on a rail, with tar and feathers handy. Because I’m not there . . . because I wasn’t there . . . it’s hard to give you an answer. Salvationists [the Salvation Army] are considered evangelicals and have done great good. Actually, it is funny how far away from Christianity’s roots some in the evangelical movement have gone. At one time evangelicals were on the forefront of social change. Wilburforce, for example, was an evangelical, and he led the charge for abolition of the slave trade in England and the colonies, Booth [Salvation Army] and John Wesley [Methodists], encouraged a “moderate life” with a social conscience. Now far too many evangelicals [my moderateness shines through] spend their time nattering against abortion and homosexual marriage to make any difference in the lives of those they should be helping [/sermon to the wrong crowd] Don’t worry - I’ll discuss any topic, even if I don’t know what I’m talking about! And don’t worry - I’m hard to offend. NOW GET ON YOUR KNEES, SINNER . . .  oops . . . slipping into/out of character |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 8, 2008 0:05:30 GMT -5
Not a chance. He's already in my black book as a Obami/Fiberal voter. I'm parsing his posts, looking for the closet greeny in him..... Oh wait, who did you vote for? Did you vote for poor little lost Dion? Would you vote for Obami? *gets black book* |
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Post by Skilly on Nov 8, 2008 8:55:04 GMT -5
Booth [Salvation Army] and John Wesley [Methodists], encouraged a “moderate life” with a social conscience. I long consider myself agnostic ... but that's not entirely true, since I do believe in God, just not the Bible (and ergo Jesus). Confusing I know ...LOL... But if I was to choose an "organized" religion (which I do not believe in - to me religion is in the soul of the person) than it would be the Salvation Army. I went to a "Sally Ann" school (by the time I was there it was more generally just a "protestant" school) that held its services in a Salvation Army church. Of course it was name Booth Memorial after William and Catherine Booth .... hey wait a second that's my wife and I's names ...(well not the Booth part) ...lol... I am the second coming I tell you .... LOL.... |
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 8, 2008 13:10:47 GMT -5
Not a chance. He's already in my black book as a Obami/Fiberal voter. I'm parsing his posts, looking for the closet greeny in him..... Oh wait, who did you vote for? Did you vote for poor little lost Dion? Would you vote for Obami? *gets black book* Actually I voted PC in the most recent election (although I did offer to give my vote to the Liberal party if they shot down Bill C-61 (I think it's bill C-61 - in either case its Canada's answer to the DMCA), they didn't and so they didn't get my vote). I would not have voted for Obama either, because, as has been hashed over a number of times, he makes me uneasy. And it's my high school Christianity teacher you should be proud of anyways. I learned more Greek/Hebrew/Latin in that class than I did in all my years in University. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 8, 2008 20:09:40 GMT -5
Not a chance. He's already in my black book as a Obami/Fiberal voter. I'm parsing his posts, looking for the closet greeny in him..... Oh wait, who did you vote for? Did you vote for poor little lost Dion? Would you vote for Obami? *gets black book* Actually I voted PC in the most recent election (although I did offer to give my vote to the Liberal party if they shot down Bill C-61 (I think it's bill C-61 - in either case its Canada's answer to the DMCA), they didn't and so they didn't get my vote). I would not have voted for Obama either, because, as has been hashed over a number of times, he makes me uneasy. And it's my high school Christianity teacher you should be proud of anyways. I learned more Greek/Hebrew/Latin in that class than I did in all my years in University. I was just checking to be sure. It's just you, HFLA and me against tall these quiche eaters! LOL As for the Greek.....one of the greatest pleasures I have when I go through Greek ruins is to be able to read the language. There is something to be said when you can read something someone wrote a few THOUSAND years ago. |
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Post by franko on Nov 8, 2008 22:10:54 GMT -5
ya, it was fun to be able to understand a bit as I travelled place to place when I was there a few years back.
we want to return -- soon!
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2008 2:39:17 GMT -5
And that bothers me. Because I see all these people getting swept along in Obama-mania and I think "are they voting for change, as they profess, or are they voting for Obama". Of the two I'd far prefer to have Obama at my dinner table (that's actually a lie - I personally would prefer John McCain - but that's because I think McCain would have interesting stories to tell and I'm a sucker for that kind of thing. Let's say Obama would be a better dinner candidate for most normal people) but being a charming fellow does not a great leader make. People with that kind of charisma tend to have ego's to boot, and things can go south in a big way. Hitler was a great orator and supposedly a charming man. So was Stalin. So was Hussain. So was Nixon. So was Johnson. None of them worked out terribly well. There is a counter point. Many of the greats have also had charisma pour from every orifice. Lincoln was said to be a masterful speech writer, and the powerful words of the Gettysburgh address speaks to that. Churchill was also a great man before the crowds, who with words alone gave a nation the strength to resist when things were at their darkest. The thing is, of course, that both Lincoln and Churchill led their nations during wartime. Churchill was a trained soldier and knew war very well. He knew how to lead men in battle. And when Churchill was in power outside of war time he was revealed to be a very weak PM. Lincoln never had that chance, being murdered shortly after the American Civil War ended. He is remember for his speeches, and considered great amongst the Presidents for his leadership in war, but who knows what would have happened beyond that. And that is why Obama makes me uneasy. Too little experience. Too quick a rise to prominence. Too many people following along - maybe because they want to believe in something again rather than the right reasons to elect someone. Obama has sold everyone a dream. But can he make it happen? History says not likely. Wikipedia definition: Cult of Personailty A cult of personality or personality cult arises when a country's leader uses mass media to create a heroic public image through unquestioning flattery and praise. Cults of personality are often found in dictatorships. A cult of personality is similar to general hero worship except that it is created specifically for political leaders. However, the term may be applied by analogy to refer to adulation of religious or non-political leaders. Further down..... Generally, personality cults are most common in regimes with totalitarian systems of government, that seek to radically alter or transform society according to revolutionary new ideas. Often, a single leader becomes associated with this revolutionary transformation, and comes to be treated as a benevolent "guide" for the nation, without whom the transformation to a better future cannot occur. This has been generally the justification for personality cults that arose in totalitarian societies of the 20th century, such as those of Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personalityBe careful what you wish for......... |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2008 2:57:14 GMT -5
He says.....www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7sScared yet? How about this?Indoctrination is most effective when it starts with the minds of young people. The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start. change.gov/americaserves/Yup. Classroom Corps.....  Be very, very careful what you wish for.........
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 9, 2008 10:36:03 GMT -5
1 hour per week of "community" service for middle and high school students and two hours of "community" service per week for college students to get a tax credit good for $4000 off college tuition (basically getting paid $40 an hour) is a far cry from Hitler Youth.
While I agree that caution to any messiah complex is warranted...and that most people are sheep (the Bush administration were manipulative shepherds, too)....I think we have to give him a chance....especially since he hasn't even been in office yet.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2008 12:39:02 GMT -5
1 hour per week of "community" service for middle and high school students and two hours of "community" service per week for college students to get a tax credit good for $4000 off college tuition (basically getting paid $40 an hour) is a far cry from Hitler Youth. Can you not see the direct connection between paying a kid $40 an hour and doing REQUIRED community service "President Obama" as indocritation? Do you really believe that ther will be a disconnect between the field workers (with absolute certainty they will be chosen by the left and far left organizers) and "President Obama". For the record, read up on ACORN if you want to see what and where "community organizing" means to Obamanation. We laughed and derided China and the third world dictatorships for manipulating their children.......now we take a "hmmm....maybe it's good for them". Why? |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2008 12:48:36 GMT -5
(I saw an interview of her last night when she got off the plane in Alaska. The reporter asked her if she was gearing up for 2012. Her reply "I haven't given that ...ahhm.. notion much time in the context ... uhmm....of giving it any thought" ..... It's that sort of muddle circular answers that women shied away from IMO ... thankfully too. If you think that Palin is bad, what do you say about the three point seven million "uhhs" that the Messiah sputters per hour? For me, he looks like the village idiot and just as bad as Dubya. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk5aAB7YlgUwww.youtube.com/watch?v=dtT5qnfKHEg |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 9, 2008 14:15:21 GMT -5
The Limbaugh "uh" tape sounds edited to me. Limbaugh would find fault with Jesus if he ran Democrat. Audio with corresponding video is more telling. And this clip is one such piece of evidence. Obviously not prepared here at all. And stumbling around like a comic bombing on stage his first night. Not even a modicum of how to string togehter a B.S. politicial answer. Sure, he reads and delivers a teleprompted speech like nobody else.....but even Dubya managed to do that with minimal errors. As a guy who has performed many tele-prompted events...believe me....it ain't that hard to do if you have a sense of performance about you. Public performance is one thing though....but it's the team he assembles and what they do that really matters. How did Obama perform in the debates? I didn't see them. --------------------------------- |
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 9, 2008 14:36:12 GMT -5
Can you not see the direct connection between paying a kid $40 an hour and doing REQUIRED community service "President Obama" as indocritation? Do you really believe that ther will be a disconnect between the field workers (with absolute certainty they will be chosen by the left and far left organizers) and "President Obama". For the record, read up on ACORN if you want to see what and where "community organizing" means to Obamanation. I see the directive coming from Washington...and I see the schools doing all the delivery. The job will be that of guidance/career counsellors, etc. who will see it as just another thing foisted on them by the government. I don't think Obama will send out a multitude of left and far-left "indoctrinators" to set up shop in every city, town, and rural route. But if that IS what he has in mind...then yes, it would raise a concern. |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2008 15:20:16 GMT -5
The Limbaugh "uh" tape sounds edited to me. Limbaugh would find fault with Jesus if he ran Democrat. Audio with corresponding video is more telling. And this clip is one such piece of evidence. Obviously not prepared here at all. And stumbling around like a comic bombing on stage his first night. Not even a modicum of how to string togehter a B.S. politicial answer. Sure, he reads and delivers a teleprompted speech like nobody else.....but even Dubya managed to do that with minimal errors. As a guy who has performed many tele-prompted events...believe me....it ain't that hard to do if you have a sense of performance about you. Public performance is one thing though....but it's the team he assembles and what they do that really matters. How did Obama perform in the debates? I didn't see them. In the debates, they both went around their talking points. Kinf opf worthless. In fact, I thought the Candian debates was more interesting in that Harper was getting it from all sides and still didn't stumble or overeact. Throughout this thread, I have lampooned and criticized Obama. Politically, I am a fiscal conservative and Obama stands at the other end of the spectrum on that matter. On the other hand, on many social policies, there is a lot of common ground. He is not inventing social policies, he wants what we already have. What frightens me is that we are going from what is mostly a failed presidency to someone who uses the word "I" so much and cultivates a messiah air about him. Worse still, there is a huge pile of people buying into it unconditionally, even dogmatically. To say nothing about the media love fest or their whitewashing of anything negative. Lastly... I am dumbfounded that 70% of Canadian would vote for Obama over Harper. He stands on the RIGHT of or with Harper on most issues and yet Harper is an evil conservative and Obama is the peoples saviour. To me, it's obvious that many Canadians are looking for a "saviour" from the mere fact that they are not discussing Obama's politics (since we already have what he spouts), but rather his presence. "Canada does not have an inspiring leader like Obama". Huh?  |
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2008 15:42:57 GMT -5
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Post by CentreHice on Nov 9, 2008 16:15:04 GMT -5
I'm trying to think of why you find the timing "interesting".......
Please don't tell me you're likening Obama to Jones.
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Post by franko on Nov 9, 2008 16:19:47 GMT -5
Just a little over the top, Crank.
Identifying Jimmy Jones with Obama? Sure they both have strong personalities and people follow them, but there's a little difference between a guy with a persecution complex claiming to be the messiah and a guy with bold ambition climbing the presidential ladder quicker than expected.
Let's see the policies he brings forward before we tar and feather him.
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Post by Cranky on Nov 9, 2008 18:15:47 GMT -5
Identifying Jimmy Jones with Obama? Sure they both have strong personalities and people follow them, but there's a little difference between a guy with a persecution complex claiming to be the messiah and a guy with bold ambition climbing the presidential ladder quicker than expected. . Are you going to tell me he did not cultivate his image as a "saviour"? Those practiced "far away" looks while spouting fifty "I will" a minute? The looks into the sky? "I'm on a journey"? "Follow me"? The mere fact that he keeps claiming that the country is "adrift" and salvation lays in following him? Okay, maybe I'm wrong cause I ain't fainting for Obama. I'm trying to think of why you find the timing "interesting"....... Please don't tell me you're likening Obama to Jones. Nope. I'm not comparing the two as far as their intent, never crossed my mind as far as that is concerned, BUT I am bringing up the cult of personality issue and Messiah issue. |
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] Non-evangelicals -- non-religious people -- can be just as greedy. 
oops . . . slipping into/out of character