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Post by Cranky on Dec 19, 2008 22:40:14 GMT -5
Funny how a consumer and casual observer like myself saw the writing on the wall years ago when I asked why in hell were they putting hemis in station wagons. If they take the lead in developing alternative fuel based vehicles for everyday use at affordable prices they'd have something. GM had an electric car that they could of developed into a hybrid a DECADE before Toyota. Instead they kept BS'ing about the "hydrogen economy" so as not to affect their inverstment in the internal combustion cars. Now look at them.... |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 20, 2008 0:54:13 GMT -5
Let's not forget one thing about these unions. Every thing in their collective agreements was bargained for ... therefore management gave them these benefits, they didnt just wake up one day with these plush jobs (if in fact they are plush), management made them plush, management did not have to give in during negotiations. This is a result a weak management, which is why I sympathize with the workers ..... I don't follow your logic here, Skilly. Your argument is that management was weak, and therefore made a mistake by not being tough enough negotiators...so you sympathize with the workers. So, if management HAD been strong enough to stand firm and countless jobs were lost, you WOULDN'T sympathize with the workers? -------------------------------------------------- If the workers agree with you (i.e. that management caused this situation by being weak in paying too much in hourly wage and benefits in relation to the company's earnings)....then the workers should also do their part to rectify it. Deep cuts at the top as well...no question. |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 20, 2008 1:00:20 GMT -5
Funny how a consumer and casual observer like myself saw the writing on the wall years ago when I asked why in hell were they putting hemis in station wagons. If they take the lead in developing alternative fuel based vehicles for everyday use at affordable prices they'd have something. GM had an electric car that they could of developed into a hybrid a DECADE before Toyota. Instead they kept BS'ing about the "hydrogen economy" so as not to affect their inverstment in the internal combustion cars. Now look at them.... Don't underestimate the influence/power of the fossil-fuel industry when it comes to quashing alternative engine technologies. |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 20, 2008 20:00:26 GMT -5
Again....so why bother with the union and not show how capable and important you are to the company through individual effort? I have yet to see a single employer (and I know many) who didn't treat their good employees with respect and consideration. I am in a union because I have to be, not because I want to be ..... we tried to seperate from the union a few decades ago and it didn't go so well. But someone has to represent the other side, especially when it looks like everyone is getting labelled the same, and I'm sure you can see that isn't the case ... |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 20, 2008 22:22:51 GMT -5
Again....so why bother with the union and not show how capable and important you are to the company through individual effort? I have yet to see a single employer (and I know many) who didn't treat their good employees with respect and consideration. I am in a union because I have to be, not because I want to be ..... we tried to seperate from the union a few decades ago and it didn't go so well. You see what I mean? When I was in university, I moved pianos to put food pn the table. The moving company that I worked for was unionized and those guys treated all the new guys like sh!t. This is not a minor issue when you are on the other end of a 700 pound piano and looking down a staircase. Then I went to another company, same thing. Finally I went back to the first company and the owner would give me weekend work that NOBODY else under ANY cirmumstance wanted and yet they filed a grievence. It was even worse from the other side of the table. That is how I got to be freinds with a lawyer who specializes in union contracts. I know that not all fingers are the same and that there are a lot of good people who belong in unions but, there are just as many who use unions as a shield, as a barrier, as a weapon. |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 21, 2008 10:26:37 GMT -5
My brother is the general manager of a software company and goes to many trade shows. Union employees set-up and tear-down the booths, get A/V equipment, etc.
One time in Atlanta, the workers were nowhere to be found to tear-down....so my brother decided to start taking the booth down himself as he had a plane to catch. Of course, he did it quickly and efficiently. It ain't quantum mechanics.
The workers finally arrived....and gave him more than the cold shoulder. My brother's company's personal stuff (DVDs, brochures, etc.) had to go into a cargo box which was stored in a locked room. He asked worker after worker, "Can I get that box? How about that box?"
I kid you not...they kept him waiting for 7 HOURS! For one box.
He had to cancel his flight and book another one....taking away from the profit of the show.
That, to me, is absolute garbage.....but it happens time after time. It's a totally inane sense of power and entitlement.
I've seen it in my line of work too. If a union is hired to work a show, don't you dare even move a microphone stand, if you want to stay in "the good books".
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Post by Skilly on Dec 21, 2008 11:41:48 GMT -5
My brother is the general manager of a software company and goes to many trade shows. Union employees set-up and tear-down the booths, get A/V equipment, etc. One time in Atlanta, the workers were nowhere to be found to tear-down....so my brother decided to start taking the booth down himself as he had a plane to catch. Of course, he did it quickly and efficiently. It ain't quantum mechanics. The workers finally arrived....and gave him more than the cold shoulder. My brother's company's personal stuff (DVDs, brochures, etc.) had to go into a cargo box which was stored in a locked room. He asked worker after worker, "Can I get that box? How about that box?" I kid you not...they kept him waiting for 7 HOURS! For one box. He had to cancel his flight and book another one....taking away from the profit of the show. That, to me, is absolute garbage.....but it happens time after time. It's a totally inane sense of power and entitlement. I've seen it in my line of work too. If a union is hired to work a show, don't you dare even move a microphone stand, if you want to stay in "the good books". ---------------------------------------------------- There are good and bad unionists just as there are good and bad managers .... some who use their power to prevent people from moving up in the company for no other reason than they can. I've seen it time and time again too ... and I've also seen the trickle down effect of disgruntled employees because of it. |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 21, 2008 12:20:52 GMT -5
Yep....I guess the point now is that everybody has to wake up and smell the coffee before it turns completely into something else.
Unions are necessary, otherwise it would be Wal-Mart and Tyson Meat Packers-style employment all over.
But....members of all unions have to realize that when working conditions are safe, benefits are paid, and salaries are enough for a solid standard of living, that it's OKAY for the company to make a profit. That's a good thing.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 21, 2008 14:38:25 GMT -5
Yep....I guess the point now is that everybody has to wake up and smell the coffee before it turns completely into something else. Unions are necessary, otherwise it would be Wal-Mart and Tyson Meat Packers-style employment all over. But....members of all unions have to realize that when working conditions are safe, benefits are paid, and salaries are enough for a solid standard of living, that it's OKAY for the company to make a profit. That's a good thing. Yes no one is denying that ... profit is good, some would say profits must have been great to give millions of dollars in bonuses. For instance, remember the bank bailout just 2 months ago? They were told to re-structure, and get their act together too. Well reports are now that one of these companies gave out 10 billion in year end bonuses..... yep, profits were good. Oh and I believe their bailout money was something like 10 billion. Their excuse? Year end bonuses were down by 46% when compared to last year. I saw a report that this wasn't just limited to one company either..... and the auto sector I am willing to bet is very similar. CEOs raking in billions and billions over the last few decades, well maybe if they were satisfied with their plush high 6 and 7 figure salaries, and not expect the largesse at the end of the year they wouldnt be where they are today. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW2gQ7MOtxQ |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 21, 2008 15:30:18 GMT -5
Yep....I guess the point now is that everybody has to wake up and smell the coffee before it turns completely into something else. Unions are necessary, otherwise it would be Wal-Mart and Tyson Meat Packers-style employment all over. But....members of all unions have to realize that when working conditions are safe, benefits are paid, and salaries are enough for a solid standard of living, that it's OKAY for the company to make a profit. That's a good thing. Yes no one is denying that ... profit is good, some would say profits must have been great to give millions of dollars in bonuses. For instance, remember the bank bailout just 2 months ago? They were told to re-structure, and get their act together too. Well reports are now that one of these companies gave out 10 billion in year end bonuses..... yep, profits were good. Oh and I believe their bailout money was something like 10 billion. Their excuse? Year end bonuses were down by 46% when compared to last year. I saw a report that this wasn't just limited to one company either..... and the auto sector I am willing to bet is very similar. CEOs raking in billions and billions over the last few decades, well maybe if they were satisfied with their plush high 6 and 7 figure salaries, and not expect the largesse at the end of the year they wouldnt be where they are today. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW2gQ7MOtxQIf there is no bailout, you complain about the poor workers will suffer. "Tragedy" is how you put it. When there is a bailout for the stupid, inefficient, business sense challanged companies, you complain of how they take advantage of it. Do you really believe that the people who run these companies are not going to get in line for THEIR entitlements? Bailout or not bailout? Which is it? |
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Post by CentreHice on Dec 21, 2008 15:41:08 GMT -5
Yes no one is denying that ... profit is good, some would say profits must have been great to give millions of dollars in bonuses. For instance, remember the bank bailout just 2 months ago? They were told to re-structure, and get their act together too. Well reports are now that one of these companies gave out 10 billion in year end bonuses..... yep, profits were good. Oh and I believe their bailout money was something like 10 billion. Their excuse? Year end bonuses were down by 46% when compared to last year. I saw a report that this wasn't just limited to one company either..... and the auto sector I am willing to bet is very similar. CEOs raking in billions and billions over the last few decades, well maybe if they were satisfied with their plush high 6 and 7 figure salaries, and not expect the largesse at the end of the year they wouldnt be where they are today. You're preaching to a member of the choir when it comes to the brass doing their share, Skilly. Earlier in this thread, I posted. And it goes for the guys at the top too. Enough of the outrageous salaries, bonuses, perquisites, and expense accounts. Now is not the time for posturing. Everybody's gotta work together. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 21, 2008 15:52:02 GMT -5
My brother is the general manager of a software company and goes to many trade shows. Union employees set-up and tear-down the booths, get A/V equipment, etc. One time in Atlanta, the workers were nowhere to be found to tear-down....so my brother decided to start taking the booth down himself as he had a plane to catch. Of course, he did it quickly and efficiently. It ain't quantum mechanics. The workers finally arrived....and gave him more than the cold shoulder. My brother's company's personal stuff (DVDs, brochures, etc.) had to go into a cargo box which was stored in a locked room. He asked worker after worker, "Can I get that box? How about that box?" I kid you not...they kept him waiting for 7 HOURS! For one box. He had to cancel his flight and book another one....taking away from the profit of the show. That, to me, is absolute garbage.....but it happens time after time. It's a totally inane sense of power and entitlement. I've seen it in my line of work too. If a union is hired to work a show, don't you dare even move a microphone stand, if you want to stay in "the good books". That was in relatively benign Atlanta, try NY City. 120 volt power to a table cost $280. Why? Because it takes an expert unionized electrician to walk a 100 feet and put a plug into a 120 volt outlet. And of course, this higly trained electrician has to come in and pull that 120 volt plug for....$280. ONE lousy table display with some surround panels cost me over $3,000 in hidden costs. Of course, when I got back, I reported that my card was stolen and none of the charges were paid. I had no problems in Atlanta (five times) because Georgia is a right to work state. I'm not sure how your broither in law got into trouble there. BTW, Obamanation wants to do away with right to work states and institute open card voting. Good old union intimidation does wonders for people free choice. I guess this has nothing to do with millions that were poured into Obamanations coffers by the unions. |
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Post by Skilly on Dec 21, 2008 15:55:34 GMT -5
Yes no one is denying that ... profit is good, some would say profits must have been great to give millions of dollars in bonuses. For instance, remember the bank bailout just 2 months ago? They were told to re-structure, and get their act together too. Well reports are now that one of these companies gave out 10 billion in year end bonuses..... yep, profits were good. Oh and I believe their bailout money was something like 10 billion. Their excuse? Year end bonuses were down by 46% when compared to last year. I saw a report that this wasn't just limited to one company either..... and the auto sector I am willing to bet is very similar. CEOs raking in billions and billions over the last few decades, well maybe if they were satisfied with their plush high 6 and 7 figure salaries, and not expect the largesse at the end of the year they wouldnt be where they are today. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW2gQ7MOtxQIf there is no bailout, you complain about the poor workers will suffer. "Tragedy" is how you put it. When there is a bailout for the stupid, inefficient, business sense challanged companies, you complain of how they take advantage of it. Do you really believe that the people who run these companies are not going to get in line for THEIR entitlements? Bailout or not bailout? Which is it? My personal opinion is that I dont care if there is a bailout or not ... but both sides talk as if the other side is completely to blame. My math tells me that cutting 10 billion in bonuses (heck even 1 billion) is alot easier than cutting back someone making 50-70 thousand. That's where I would start before even looking at a bailout or cutting workers salaries. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 21, 2008 16:02:12 GMT -5
Now is not the time for posturing. Everybody's gotta work together. Never going to happen. There is years of inherit, inbred dislike between management and workers. Multiply it by tens times when unions are involved. As any UAW member and he will tell you it's not his fault that management put out badly designed and the wrong cars. Ask management and they will tell you how the company has suffered from the poor quality workmanship. Worse still, UAW members think tha THEIR job is harder then the guy sitting in front of a monitor or those fat cats flying around in jets. Of course, management can't wait for the next robot to replace a body. But what the heck, they can agree to take your money and my money any time of day and twice on Sunday. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 21, 2008 16:05:03 GMT -5
My personal opinion is that I dont care if there is a bailout or not ... but both sides talk as if the other side is completely to blame. My math tells me that cutting 10 billion in bonuses (heck even 1 billion) is alot easier than cutting back someone making 50-70 thousand. That's where I would start before even looking at a bailout or cutting workers salaries. How about they get nothing and let them decide how or if they want to pull up their bootstraps? Nothing sharpens the mind and the will better then no food on the table. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 21, 2008 17:10:01 GMT -5
Now congress will force GM to build small vehicles and alternate fuel vehicles while Ford sells Big SUV's as gas approaches $1.40 a gallon in California.
Throw out the UAW and the Big "3" will be successful without an expensive bailout.
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Post by CrocRob on Dec 22, 2008 9:02:16 GMT -5
Now congress will force GM to build small vehicles and alternate fuel vehicles while Ford sells Big SUV's as gas approaches $1.40 a gallon in California. Throw out the UAW and the Big "3" will be successful without an expensive bailout. I think it's terribly ironic that somehow the government has decided what the electorate's car preferences are. Was that on the ballot? Who do you want to vote for President?
Who do you want to vote for Congress?
Would you rather a small, medium or large car?I've seen lots of surveys done, and it's reliability that people want. If you made a LeSabre as reliable as a Camry, the fuel efficiency wouldn't be an issue. I think people want to buy domestic (produced, not necessarily GM, Ford or Chrysler), but not inferior products. |
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Post by roke on Dec 22, 2008 18:35:47 GMT -5
Just finished watching BBC World News
Toyota forecasting their first operating loss ever (or, according to BBC, in about 70 years. I assume they were not manufacturing cars at that time), of $1.7 billion. New car purchases of any kind down 10% in China, 36% in the US, 20-25% (I can't remember the exact figure) in Europe.
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 7, 2009 16:58:52 GMT -5
They can take our cars... but for the love of god don't take our porn!!! Porn Industry Seeks Federal BailoutWASHINGTON (CNN) — Another major American industry is asking for assistance as the global financial crisis continues: Hustler publisher Larry Flynt and Girls Gone Wild CEO Joe Francis said Wednesday they will request that Congress allocate $5 billion for a bailout of the adult entertainment industry.
“The take here is that everyone and their mother want to be bailed out from the banks to the big three,” said Owen Moogan, spokesman for Larry Flynt. “The porn industry has been hurt by the downturn like everyone else and they are going to ask for the $5 billion. Is it the most serious thing in the world? Is it going to make the lives of Americans better if it happens? It is not for them to determine.”
Francis said in a statement that “the US government should actively support the adult industry's survival and growth, just as it feels the need to support any other industry cherished by the American people."politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/07/porn-industry-seeks-federal-bailout/ |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 7, 2009 20:16:28 GMT -5
So do I qualify for a partial bailout if I post some *ahem* "home movies" on You-Tube?  |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 7, 2009 22:40:18 GMT -5
So do I qualify for a partial bailout if I post some *ahem* "home movies" on You-Tube? Only a partial bailout, huh? ;D Oh, how many jokes can be made about bailing out the porn industry? Can't help but be single-entendre...... I'll start. "Mr. Chairman....our industry is sagging...limp. We're seeking an attractive package that will create the flow needed to make things rise sharply." |
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 8, 2009 14:57:07 GMT -5
Mr. Chairman, I am here today to keep you abreast of the situation and since I know you are all getting busy in your new positions, I will not beat around the bush. There is only so much we can put out, and we are impotent in the face of this flaccid economy. We can not pussyfoot around the issue anymore - we have to bust out of this cockamamie situation. Let’s not dick around, we have to thrust ourselves forward, and we cannot do this ass-backwards. We need stimulus. We need to go balls out and do it right. Who here has the cajones to be the missionary for our industry? The time for mass debate is over, we need to come together before we all get the shaft. Let’s not blow this, lets not blow this job. There are some that say that this is all just a fantasy on our part, that we’re just a bunch of cunning linguists getting all bent out of shape because somebody else’s package is bigger than ours. To that I say “bullocks!” We have not yet reached the climax of this event, and unless you want us all to get laid off you must respond.
I am SUCH a teenager.
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Post by clear observer on Jan 8, 2009 16:01:05 GMT -5
Mr. Chairman, I am here today to keep you abreast of the situation and since I know you are all getting busy in your new positions, I will not beat around the bush. There is only so much we can put out, and we are impotent in the face of this flaccid economy. We can not pussyfoot around the issue anymore - we have to bust out of this cockamamie situation. Let’s not dick around, we have to thrust ourselves forward, and we cannot do this ass-backwards. We need stimulus. We need to go balls out and do it right. Who here has the cajones to be the missionary for our industry? The time for mass debate is over, we need to come together before we all get the shaft. Let’s not blow this, lets not blow this job. There are some that say that this is all just a fantasy on our part, that we’re just a bunch of cunning linguists getting all bent out of shape because somebody else’s package is bigger than ours. To that I say “bullocks!” We have not yet reached the climax of this event, and unless you want us all to get laid off you must respond.I am SUCH a teenager. A master, piece. ;D |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 8, 2009 16:58:39 GMT -5
The porn industry is looking for someone to present their case in Washington. Finally, the perfect job for Dick Pound.
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 8, 2009 17:22:05 GMT -5
The porn industry is looking for someone to present their case in Washington. Finally, the perfect job for Dick Pound. ;D I actually laughed out loud on that one... |
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Post by Cranky on Jan 10, 2009 14:19:54 GMT -5
What is WRONG with you people? I'm paying far too much for services these days and the only way to afford them is to have government sponsored "hooker handouts". After all, if management can take bllions in golden parashutes, why can't we invest millions in golden handshakes?
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Post by franko on Feb 28, 2009 15:08:02 GMT -5
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Post by Skilly on Mar 2, 2009 12:13:16 GMT -5
whew ... We almost purchased a vehicle in the fall ... now might as well hold off and hope the predictions of auto price crashing are true .... |
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Post by Cranky on Mar 12, 2009 0:18:07 GMT -5
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Post by jkr on Mar 12, 2009 9:41:47 GMT -5
The porn industry is looking for someone to present their case in Washington. Finally, the perfect job for Dick Pound. LOL -I know a lot of people type this but I really did.  |
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