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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 6, 2008 9:56:34 GMT -5
...internet rumors have it that M.Bob is interested in Tampa's #4
Pat Burns said last week on CKAC that something is not right with Vinny in Tampa right now...
Considering how screwy things are run down there, I wouldn't be surprised to see Vinny traded.
Wonder what it would take and how we could make him fit under the cap...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 10:13:32 GMT -5
I imagine quite a bit. At least a 1st rounder, and probably three of the following: Higgins, Latendresse, S.Kostitsyn, A.Kostitsyn, O'Byrne, Komisarek.
The list goes on. Will it be worth it?
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Post by HFTO on Dec 6, 2008 10:14:24 GMT -5
I wondered how happy Vinny was in Tampa given the lunacy over the recent months.
Obviously another pipe dream but one that would have been the best all around scenario for the Habs, much better than Sundin given Vinny's age.
If there was any way I'm sure Bo would make it happen within reason of course.
HFTO
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 6, 2008 10:22:50 GMT -5
I imagine quite a bit. At least a 1st rounder, and probably three of the following: Higgins, Latendresse, S.Kostitsyn, A.Kostitsyn, O'Byrne, Komisarek. The list goes on. Will it be worth it? Just for discussion sake, say we do the K brothers, Lang and OB for Vinny and something: Tanguay - Vinny - Kovalev Lats - Koivu - D'Ago Higgins - Plekanec - Kosto Begin - Lapierre - Lapierre We'd be giving a lot but I think it would be worth it. |
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Post by CrocRob on Dec 6, 2008 10:51:53 GMT -5
I imagine quite a bit. At least a 1st rounder, and probably three of the following: Higgins, Latendresse, S.Kostitsyn, A.Kostitsyn, O'Byrne, Komisarek. The list goes on. Will it be worth it? Just for discussion sake, say we do the K brothers, Lang and OB for Vinny and something: Tanguay - Vinny - Kovalev Lats - Koivu - D'Ago Higgins - Plekanec - Kosto Begin - Lapierre - Lapierre We'd be giving a lot but I think it would be worth it. It wouldn't be enough. Tampa's ownership bought the franchise with Vinny, and said that some of the reason they bought it is because they have an item like Vinny to sell. Without sending back someone to sell tickets, Vinny's not going anywhere. Kovalchuk for Lecavalier. That's something around which I think TB would consider. |
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Post by franko on Dec 6, 2008 12:06:09 GMT -5
Don't think that either of them would like it, though . . .
Kovalchuk wants to be on a contender. TB is not.
Kovalev for Kovalchuk? Never happen, but I'd do it . . . along with a first and OB and PB and probably a bit more!
[edit: I know it will never happen -- PB is going nowhere. but I can dream, can't I?]
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Post by franko on Dec 6, 2008 12:10:45 GMT -5
I imagine quite a bit. At least a 1st rounder, and probably three of the following: Higgins, Latendresse, S.Kostitsyn, A.Kostitsyn, O'Byrne, Komisarek. and a first and a second. as much as some are unhappy with Komi, we don't have anyone to replace him this year . . . unless there is even more of a blow-up and we deal for a stud d as well. can't see it -- it's either one or the other. |
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Post by CrocRob on Dec 6, 2008 12:10:41 GMT -5
Yeah I hadn't really thought that all the way through. I just wanted to reiterate that an exciting player would be necessary for TB in a return, and the Kostitsyns, Lang and O'Byrne.. none of them are that (yet).
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Post by Andrew on Dec 6, 2008 14:47:21 GMT -5
That's a pretty huge contract to take on. After this year he's making 10 million / year for the next 7 seasons, and 8.5 in the following one. I can see him being an elite talent for another 4-5, but beyond that I'm not so sure.
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Post by CrocRob on Dec 6, 2008 15:38:45 GMT -5
That's a pretty huge contract to take on. After this year he's making 10 million / year for the next 7 seasons, and 8.5 in the following one. I can see him being an elite talent for another 4-5, but beyond that I'm not so sure. I sometimes wonder if these contracts are signed thinking the CBA will change before the contract is up, because paying a guy that much fir that long - despite the obvious talent - isn't very risk averse. |
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Post by franko on Dec 6, 2008 15:42:17 GMT -5
This is where I fiture that giving % of salary cap for contracts would be better than total dollars, as contracts will go down because of escrow anyway.
Never happen though.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 6, 2008 16:38:54 GMT -5
Higgins, Komi, Maxwell, Subban, Tanguay.
Just throwing out what it would take. Vinnie is elite, so you're not going to get him for guys like Latendresse or S Kostitsyn, or any combination of 3rd/4th line players. You might even have to add Plekanec to the above list. Tampa gets a big facelift and a guy to build their defense around, we get weaker with NHL players, but heck, don't we brag we have so much depth? And we add the elite, big centre (or left winger, whatever) who is a difference maker. We keep our gritty guys from the 3rd/4 line, and we can dress Lats, S Kosts or bring up Pacioretty and Chips. I think it improves our Cup chances. And I think moving Tanguay can free up CAP space.
Just thinking out loud.
Oh yeah, we can start playing O'Byrne again, who was actually improving.
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Post by jkr on Dec 6, 2008 17:26:51 GMT -5
Gainey wanted an elite player last season so I imagine he has not changed his mind about that. The competition has their share of stars - Crosby, Malkin, Heatley, Ovechkin for example. I'm not sure what it would take. I think their greatest need is D men right now so I guess O'Byrne would be a start. However, Tampa strikes me as a team without direction right now so I don't know what they would ask for. The contract scares me though, www.nhlnumbers.com shows him under contract for the next 11 years. Perhaps BG would be wiser targeting a younger UFA to be like Kovalchuk or Nash. |
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Post by franko on Dec 6, 2008 18:34:14 GMT -5
Kovalchuk. Non-Canadian or not, he shows fire. . . and passion to win.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 6, 2008 19:03:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I think so too, Franko. I like Kovalchuk's drive and Vinny's contract is steep. Then again, Kovalchuk's may be too, when he gets to UFA status.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 7, 2008 13:22:46 GMT -5
If I had a dollar to bet, I'd put it on Burke who will somehow manage to get Nash. |
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Post by gy on Dec 7, 2008 14:01:44 GMT -5
I'm skeptical about the chances of getting Lecavalier, much as I'd like to see it happen. I think he's adamant about wanting to stay in Florida and he's shown no hint of interest in Montréal.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 7, 2008 14:07:23 GMT -5
Higgins, Komi, Maxwell, Subban, Tanguay. Just throwing out what it would take. Vinnie is elite, so you're not going to get him for guys like Latendresse or S Kostitsyn, or any combination of 3rd/4th line players. You might even have to add Plekanec to the above list. Tampa gets a big facelift and a guy to build their defense around, we get weaker with NHL players, but heck, don't we brag we have so much depth? And we add the elite, big centre (or left winger, whatever) who is a difference maker. We keep our gritty guys from the 3rd/4 line, and we can dress Lats, S Kosts or bring up Pacioretty and Chips. I think it improves our Cup chances. And I think moving Tanguay can free up CAP space. Just thinking out loud. Oh yeah, we can start playing O'Byrne again, who was actually improving. Another internet rumour. Should try starting one of my own or something. That aside, the very first thing I thought of when I read the title to the thread was cap space. As Andrew pointed out, Lecavalier will stand to make $10 million a year from 09/10 to 12/13. If Gainey were to make a pitch for Lecavalier this year, it means he wants to win THIS year. Yet, IMO, if he trades for Lecavalier this year it also means he can't be concerned with the club's immediate, short-term future starting with next year. Having said that, the lineup would look a lot different this year and possibly radically different next year. To Land Vinny this year could cost us the amount of salary he'd bring in. I don't know what the percentage of $7.167 million is to this point in the season, but it's possible: Plekanec a centre @ $1.8 million, A. Kostitsyn, at natural talent @ $3.25 million, Komisarek, a defenceman @ $1.9 million, and probably a prospect. This totals just under $7 million, but this is the scenario it might take to land Lecavalier. So, what happens the following year? The big-name core FAs will have to be signed. These include Koivu and Kovalev and assuming Higgins still wants to play in Montreal (might want to play with Komi wherever he is), then he'll have be negotiated with as well. As we were discussing, getting Vinny now tells everyone and their dog that the Habs are serious about winning the Cup now, this year. That said, I think we'd also best be prepared to deal with the fallout of not winning the Cup this year. Add to the fact that there will be differing camps as to who should wear the "C" and how radically different the team might look next year, and that PR move could blow up right in our faces. Don't get me wrong guys, I'd love to see le Gros Bill return to the ice. I just can't figure out how it will work. Cheers. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 7, 2008 16:41:54 GMT -5
So, what happens the following year? The big-name core FAs will have to be signed. These include Koivu and Kovalev and assuming Higgins still wants to play in Montreal (might want to play with Komi wherever he is), then he'll have be negotiated with as well. Higgins shouldn't be a problem. At his pace, he'll be worth about $700k a year. Get the message, Chris? |
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Post by jkr on Dec 7, 2008 16:42:06 GMT -5
If I had a dollar to bet, I'd put it on Burke who will somehow manage to get Nash. Nash is from Brampton, a Toronto suburb. I guess he can play that card. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 8, 2008 2:18:43 GMT -5
Lecavalier to Montreal rumors are like herpes.
They keep coming back every few weeks and nothing good ever comes out of it!
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Post by blny on Dec 8, 2008 11:43:46 GMT -5
I'm just not sold on him. I think Vinny is an elite talent without an elite head. There are other players out there that I would sooner target.
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Post by clear observer on Dec 8, 2008 12:04:47 GMT -5
I'm just not sold on him. I think Vinny is an elite talent without an elite head. There are other players out there that I would sooner target. Fully agree here. He didn't want it when he coulda/shoulda had it. I want players (even elite ones) that WANT to play for the Canadiens. I'd shop elsewhere; just like he did. |
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Post by franko on Dec 8, 2008 13:41:23 GMT -5
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 17, 2008 20:28:58 GMT -5
Higgins, Komi, Maxwell, Subban, Tanguay. Just throwing out what it would take. Vinnie is elite, so you're not going to get him for guys like Latendresse or S Kostitsyn, or any combination of 3rd/4th line players. You might even have to add Plekanec to the above list. Tampa gets a big facelift and a guy to build their defense around, we get weaker with NHL players, but heck, don't we brag we have so much depth? And we add the elite, big centre (or left winger, whatever) who is a difference maker. We keep our gritty guys from the 3rd/4 line, and we can dress Lats, S Kosts or bring up Pacioretty and Chips. I think it improves our Cup chances. And I think moving Tanguay can free up CAP space. Just thinking out loud. Oh yeah, we can start playing O'Byrne again, who was actually improving. Another internet rumour. Should try starting one of my own or something. That aside, the very first thing I thought of when I read the title to the thread was cap space. As Andrew pointed out, Lecavalier will stand to make $10 million a year from 09/10 to 12/13. If Gainey were to make a pitch for Lecavalier this year, it means he wants to win THIS year. Yet, IMO, if he trades for Lecavalier this year it also means he can't be concerned with the club's immediate, short-term future starting with next year. Having said that, the lineup would look a lot different this year and possibly radically different next year. To Land Vinny this year could cost us the amount of salary he'd bring in. I don't know what the percentage of $7.167 million is to this point in the season, but it's possible: Plekanec a centre @ $1.8 million, A. Kostitsyn, at natural talent @ $3.25 million, Komisarek, a defenceman @ $1.9 million, and probably a prospect. This totals just under $7 million, but this is the scenario it might take to land Lecavalier. So, what happens the following year? The big-name core FAs will have to be signed. These include Koivu and Kovalev and assuming Higgins still wants to play in Montreal (might want to play with Komi wherever he is), then he'll have be negotiated with as well. As we were discussing, getting Vinny now tells everyone and their dog that the Habs are serious about winning the Cup now, this year. That said, I think we'd also best be prepared to deal with the fallout of not winning the Cup this year. Add to the fact that there will be differing camps as to who should wear the "C" and how radically different the team might look next year, and that PR move could blow up right in our faces. Don't get me wrong guys, I'd love to see le Gros Bill return to the ice. I just can't figure out how it will work. Cheers. If we find Lecavaliers salary an impediment, imagine how difficult it is for Tampa to pay him that much when they have so many big salary star players and another on the way. It's not unheard of to have the former team cover some of the cap space after a trade. Their #2 AND #3 LINES WOULD BENEFIT FROM SOME OF OUR lesser lights or prospects in Hamilton. I do agree with the thought that he has size, skill and speed; his only weakness is the 5 inches between his ears. |
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Post by roke on Dec 17, 2008 21:21:13 GMT -5
Lecavalier's cap hit doesn't really bother me all that much, $7.7m is high, but it's not too bad for a guy who, ideally, would put up 100 points a season. The length of the contract on the other hand, a cap hit of $7.7m for a player when they're aged 36+ is scary.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 18, 2008 8:09:48 GMT -5
It's not unheard of to have the former team cover some of the cap space after a trade. Redscull can correct me if I am wrong ... but I believe this is not allowed under the CBA. Trading teams must have the cap space available to make a trade, and you can not trade cap space, so teams can not cover any cap space for another team |
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Post by franko on Dec 18, 2008 9:42:49 GMT -5
It's not unheard of to have the former team cover some of the cap space after a trade. Redscull can correct me if I am wrong ... but I believe this is not allowed under the CBA. Trading teams must have the cap space available to make a trade, and you can not trade cap space, so teams can not cover any cap space for another team you are correct, Skilly . . . and teams cannot pay "trade" only part of the salary [though RS can correct me on this!]. |
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Post by CrocRob on Dec 18, 2008 11:34:39 GMT -5
You guys are both right, no need to correct. It's all-or-nothing when it comes to trading contracts. The only time another team can assume part of the hit of a contract is on re-entry waivers.
Though it has to be acknowledged (I think it has in other threads) that the traded cap hit only corresponds to the pro-rated amount of cap hit left on the season. I think that corresponds to 61% of the cap hit as of today (75 days since Oct 4, 118 days to Apr 12). That's not exact, but for example Lecavalier -- traded today -- would occupy about $4.2M (of the total $6.875M) in charged cap hit this season.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 18, 2008 12:55:06 GMT -5
Trading teams must have the cap space available to make a trade Is that so or can you go over the cap to make the trade and then fit it back along the way... ? Say can a GM be over at some point and then low enough at other points to make it fit under the cap on a yearly basis? |
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