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Post by gy on Jun 17, 2009 21:05:05 GMT -5
The Lecavalier rumours never die. They remind me of the story I heard about the Hudson Bay polar bears that make their annual visit to Churchill. Years ago a foolish farmer set up a pig farm in the area. The polar bears discovered it and loved their stroke of good fortune so much that they kept revisiting the site long after the farmer closed the place. Lecavalier rumours seem to be our pig farm and we're the hungry polar bears who keep returning to them.
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Post by Polarice on Dec 9, 2009 15:07:11 GMT -5
Just to start things up again....The rumour boards are saying the Vinny has asked to be traded!! Just when you think it went away.
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Post by roke on Dec 9, 2009 15:31:59 GMT -5
I would have liked Lecavalier before July 1st, when the club had the option not to vest his no-movement clause and trading/waiving (well, I guess shaming him into retirement) when he isn't productive when the guy is 37+ was an option. Now, I wouldn't touch him unless there were serious incentives coming the Habs way (Hedman, or 2 firsts).
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Post by CrocRob on Dec 9, 2009 16:03:15 GMT -5
I would have liked Lecavalier before July 1st, when the club had the option not to vest his no-movement clause and trading/waiving (well, I guess shaming him into retirement) when he isn't productive when the guy is 37+ was an option. Now, I wouldn't touch him unless there were serious incentives coming the Habs way (Hedman, or 2 firsts). That's just it. Gomez might be dead weight, but it's only for a few seasons and we can probably move him in a season or two to a team looking for real savings. Lecavalier is dead weight for the next decade and is damaged goods (wrist, shoulder) and his NMC is already vested. I know others probably disagree, but I'm not certain I would even do a Gomez-for-Lecavalier deal. I believe it hampers the franchise more, and for longer, than just riding out Gomez's contract will. |
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Post by blny on Dec 9, 2009 16:11:32 GMT -5
RS, I'm with you on this.
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Post by 24in93 on Dec 9, 2009 16:26:12 GMT -5
No thanks! Now Jeff Carter on the other hand....
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Post by duster on Dec 9, 2009 17:07:15 GMT -5
I suspect the members of the media who are responsible for this nonsense are the usual suspects. The opportunity came and went last year. Time to move on.
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Post by Anardil1 on Dec 9, 2009 18:42:17 GMT -5
Will someone PLEASE drive a stake through the heart of this francophone fantasy? I can't take this any longer.
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Post by CrocRob on Dec 9, 2009 19:16:59 GMT -5
I suspect the members of the media who are responsible for this nonsense are the usual suspects. The opportunity came and went last year. Time to move on. Actually, this time around it was Pat Burns. Or so I read somewhere, anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 20:04:18 GMT -5
I know others probably disagree, but I'm not certain I would even do a Gomez-for-Lecavalier deal. I believe it hampers the franchise more, and for longer, than just riding out Gomez's contract will. Whoever takes the chance on Vinny (assuming he does want out) is hoping that a change of scenery can rejuvenate him. |
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Post by Andrew on Dec 9, 2009 20:33:53 GMT -5
Way too much of a gamble. In almost 30 games he's on pace for 68 points (one more than last year's 67). That's over 110 games since his shoulder surgery, and he's producing at a level you hope that your second line center can attain. A contract like that should be reserved for a 'money in the bank' year-after-year top 10 scorer.
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Post by Polarice on Dec 10, 2009 6:27:19 GMT -5
If the price was right .....meaning not giving away all our prospects, I'd take a chance on him. Playing home in Montreal might be the thing he needs.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 12, 2009 10:08:57 GMT -5
...just to add a little on this, Jacques Demers who's close to the Lecavalier clan, said Vinny has to ask for a deal and get out of Tampa. That cuts from what he was always saying, be it that Lecavalier is happy in Tampa and commitment flows both ways.
Personally I don't think Vinny is finished at all at only 29. Souray had VERY serious wrist problems over multiple seasons before actually becoming the canon that he is. But Lecavalier is a player in dire need of a new challenge if I ever saw one.
I think Vinny will be moved this year but I am skeptical about him wanting to take on the huge challenge of coming to Montreal where he's expected to be the next Beliveau/Lafleur/Roy... But... contrary to previous seasons, he wouldn't be the only high profile forward of this team so he'd get support both in terms of production and leadership from guys like Cammalleri, Gionta and Gomez.
Cammalleri - Lecavalier - AK
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
...is a pretty impressive top 6. IMO, the kind of top lines you need to have to be considered a contender. With that top 6, a healthy Markov, a focused Price and the lower line depth that we have, they'd make me a believer.
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Post by roke on Dec 12, 2009 10:27:48 GMT -5
I don't see how a team could have Gomez and Lecavalier fit under the salary cap Doc. Not without dumping Spacek and Hamrlik, which would mean the team would be post-lockout Tampa (talent at forward, not enough on defense).
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Post by blny on Dec 12, 2009 10:49:41 GMT -5
The only way we can have that top 6 is to dump expensive contracts on defense. Markov, and maybe one other reasonable contract. The rest are cheap players and/or prospects.
Tampa would have to take some money back, and that means you need to have people that would interest them. Assuming Plekanec went the other way, you can bet the Bolts would want to lock him up to a contract as part of the trade.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 12, 2009 11:00:49 GMT -5
I don't see how a team could have Gomez and Lecavalier fit under the salary cap Doc. Not without dumping Spacek and Hamrlik, which would mean the team would be post-lockout Tampa (talent at forward, not enough on defense). How does Pitts afford Malkin, Crosby, Stall ? Lecavalier cap hit is 7.7, for this year with the money saved on Markov so far, you're probably very close to fit him without moving much guys. For the next few years, here's a few combination that equals roughly the same hit: Pleks(2.75), AK(3.3), Mara(1.7) Laraque(1.5), AK(3.3), Gill (2.3), SK(.8) IMO you don't have to completely deplete the D to fit him. Get rid of some dead wood (the K brothers), a redundant player (Pleks) and instead of having an all veteran D lineup, keep 3 good ones (Markov, Spacek, Hammer) and use the young guys (O'Byrne, Gorges, Carle, Subban) or cheap specialized players in the mold of MAB. Or heck, just trade Gomez...  ...there are always options Roke. |
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Post by roke on Dec 12, 2009 11:14:49 GMT -5
Keeping the Top 3 dmen, Gomez, Spacek, Gionta, Hamrlik and adding Lecavalier brings you to a payroll of $41.17m for 8 players. Attendance is down in the NHL, there's no new television contract this year, and sponsorship in all areas of business are down, so the cap is probably not going up. That leaves you $15.73 million for 14 players, including needing to re-sign Price. O'Byrne, Gorges, Pacioretty, Moen, and White are already signed, so you only need 9 players (with $5.301667m left... including needing to re-sign Price and cover the salary of the young guys who make the team).
It has to be Gomez or Lecavalier. Pittsburgh can get away with paying their stars a lot and skimping elsewhere because their best players can carry a line.
I still wouldn't touch that contract Lecavalier has with a no-movement clause. Too much term for a guy you couldn't get rid of if you wanted to, unless he gave you his permission.
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Post by franko on Dec 12, 2009 11:52:20 GMT -5
The problem I have with Vinnie is that his contract carries on until the Leafs 100th anniversary with out a Stanley Cup
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Post by gy on Dec 12, 2009 17:01:30 GMT -5
I was surprised to learn that Lecavalier is a few months younger than Gomez.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 30, 2009 11:05:47 GMT -5
The problem I have with Vinnie is that his contract carries on until the Leafs 100th anniversary with out a Stanley Cup That's gotta be good Mojo |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 19, 2010 10:15:52 GMT -5
Internet rumors have the Rangers interested in Vinny:
Matt Gilroy, Wade Redden and one of Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan for Lecavalier.
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Post by franko on Jan 19, 2010 10:22:48 GMT -5
Internet rumors have the Rangers interested in Vinny: Matt Gilroy, Wade Redden and one of Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan for Lecavalier. just what TBay needs: a useless d-man with a huge salary |
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2010 10:30:06 GMT -5
True, but they'd be out from under Redden's contract before Lecavalier's. I guess the Rags think putting Vincent with Marion Gaborik may spark him. I don't know if Vinny could keep up.
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Post by Polarice on Jan 19, 2010 10:42:31 GMT -5
True, but they'd be out from under Redden's contract before Lecavalier's. I guess the Rags think putting Vincent with Marion Gaborik may spark him. I don't know if Vinny could keep up. Well we could give them Mara and Hammer if they're looking for d-men!! |
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2010 11:19:36 GMT -5
True, but they'd be out from under Redden's contract before Lecavalier's. I guess the Rags think putting Vincent with Marion Gaborik may spark him. I don't know if Vinny could keep up. Well we could give them Mara and Hammer if they're looking for d-men!! LOL .. not enough contract moving the other way. Hammer's got another year at $5.5 million, then he's a UFA again. With Redden, the Bolts take on a big contract until June 2014. The Rags get Vinny till 2020. Yeesh! |
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Post by Polarice on Jan 19, 2010 12:06:56 GMT -5
Well we could give them Mara and Hammer if they're looking for d-men!! LOL .. not enough contract moving the other way. Hammer's got another year at $5.5 million, then he's a UFA again. With Redden, the Bolts take on a big contract until June 2014. The Rags get Vinny till 2020. Yeesh! Thats almost 9 million in salaries. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 19, 2010 13:35:46 GMT -5
Well we could give them Mara and Hammer if they're looking for d-men!! LOL .. not enough contract moving the other way. Hammer's got another year at $5.5 million, then he's a UFA again. With Redden, the Bolts take on a big contract until June 2014. The Rags get Vinny till 2020. Yeesh! But wouldnt the one yr contract be more enticing to T-Bay? |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 19, 2010 14:27:42 GMT -5
Internet rumors have the Rangers interested in Vinny: Matt Gilroy, Wade Redden and one of Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan for Lecavalier. An interesting exercise I always do and then see if the numbers work is "what is Montreal's comparable offer". This rumour has a young defenseman, a verteran on the downcline, and a young second/third line forward who is a spark plug with some scoring touch. So, to me that is similar (ok guys, make your own comparisons before you tear mine apart .. ) , maybe not perfect, but similar to Ryan O'Byrne, Roman Hamrlik, and Maxim Lapierre. Now does it work? For this year ... we are subracting 7.13 million of cap space and adding 7.727 cap space. Every website I go to seem to indicate that we have more than enough to cover the 600k difference. So yes, it works for this year. Now, do we handcuff ourselves for other years? Yeah, it will be tight, but it will be very doable too. This offseason is going to see Bob make alot of decisions. Halak in all likelihood will be gone. RFAs = S.Kosty, Pouliot, D'agositini, Price UFAs = Plekanec, Metropolit, Mara, Bergeron It is safe to save, most of them will be gone. I can see us re-signing Pouliot and Price. Then some interesting decisions will have to made .... and the first one Bob has to answer is "can we fit Plekanec on this team at 4 million?" Pouliot (?) - Vinny (7.727) - Patches (0.875) Gionta (5.00) - Gomez (7.357) - Cammy (6.00) S.Kosty (?) - Plekanec (?)- A.Kosty (3.25) Moen (1.5) - Metro (?) - Laraque (1.5) Would Metro resign for 1 million? If he doesn't we fill his role with Ryan White or D'agostini and use Moen as a center. Will Bob not break the bank on S. Kosty and give him a minimal raise to 1 million? And how much does of a raise does he give the unknown potential of Pouliot? 1.5? which is double what he gets now. The defense as you would figure gets the most overhaul ... please note these arent the pairings, just what we have signed next year. Markov (5.75) - Spacek (3.833) Gorges (1.1) - Gill (2.25) We have Carle, Weber, and Subban in the wings ... none of which will raise the cap more than it is at present. In fact they would lower it. We could even re-sign Bergeron at his current 750k ... he isnt likely to have many takers. For fun, let's insert Subban and Weber both at 0.800. Thats 14.5 million dollars on defense. Above it is 36.7 on forwards (not counting Plekanec). Price doesn't get any bonuses next year, so I am going to assume Bob will offer him 2.2 million and our back-up could be Desjardins (or insert the clear cut back up of your choice) at 0.8 (or less). All this to say we have spent 54.2 million and need a third line center (and I have no idea of what the cap is going to be). It's 58 million now isn't it? ... So it is possible , if the right choices (D'agostini currently gets 0.5k so if we sign him at 0.8K instead of Metro or Laraque for instance) and the firm salaries are handed out to do it IMO ... barely I admit |
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 19, 2010 14:40:21 GMT -5
I'd say O'Byrne, Hamrlik and Lapierre is a bit light relative to the rumoured Rangers offer, but that's just my opinion and it could be leveled out with picks/prospects that won't impact our NHL roster for the next few seasons.
Buying out Laraque saves $1M next season (though it costs us $500k in 2 seasons).
All that being said, I want no part of Lecavalier. He's not an elite player anymore, and his contract is an enormous albatross. I can't even imagine the laughter with having both Gomez and Lecavalier on the Habs, possibly the two worst contracts in the NHL and the ridiculousness of trading assets for each of them!
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Post by blny on Jan 19, 2010 14:40:40 GMT -5
LOL .. not enough contract moving the other way. Hammer's got another year at $5.5 million, then he's a UFA again. With Redden, the Bolts take on a big contract until June 2014. The Rags get Vinny till 2020. Yeesh! But wouldnt the one yr contract be more enticing to T-Bay? Yes, it would be. I was speaking from our perspective. In order to add that salary, we'd need to find long term money to send the other way. Many will point to Gomez, but assuming there's no interest, you have to find money elsewhere. That's where moving a Hamrlik salary does us no good. In the Rags rumour you have long term money moving in both directions. |
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