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Post by HabSolute on Jan 13, 2009 8:56:58 GMT -5
Is Lecavalier married, and if so, where is his wife from? Something tells me he's married to someone from Tampa. Girlfriend from Tampa. Actually, I believe her name is Caroline and she is French Canadian... |
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Post by Marvin on Jan 13, 2009 9:44:31 GMT -5
Actually, I believe her name is Caroline and she is French Canadian... Family concerns have become a primary bargaining chip in trade/contracts. If Vinny is married or with a girl from TB, it'll make a difference. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 13, 2009 10:30:01 GMT -5
I love Josh Gorges, but I am not sure why everyone all of a sudden gets cold feet at the prospect of losing him .... we have had scenario after scenario of what it would cost to land a player like Lecavalier and 95% of them involved a roster playing defenseman going the other way. BUT this rumour has something that NONE of the others had that I can remember.... a roster playing defensman coming this way. Paul Ranger is a good NHL defenseman. He sticks up for his teammates (like Josh), and is a great character guy (like Josh). And they are both 24 .... Statistically, there is not much to choose between the two either: Ranger = 2G , 9A, 11pts , -1 (that -1 is pretty impressive on a poor Tamps Bay team that is 5th worst in the entire NHL in goals against ... the leading defensman on TB is +2) Gorges = 1G, 7A, 8pts, +16 (impressively leads his team in plus-minus) I don't know .... it just seems to me, that we are losing Josh Gorges and gaining a Josh Gorges clone, so the trade, to me, boils down to Lecavalier for Higgins+Pleky+prospects/picks .... That is a steal IMO, for us!! I'd advice Gainey to sign, sign quickly, and try not to smirk and giggle too much before the ink dries ... But the bubble bursting item that will cost us hope that this rumour is true is the salary cap .... I don't think it is workable ... well, it may be, but it means players are going to be sent to Hamilton, and we better hope the injury bug doesn't bite again... Lecavalier (6.875) + Ranger (0.933) = 7.808 Thats another thing that bugs me, everyone talks of Vinny's huge contract being a problem. It's only the salary cap hit thats gonna count. Yes he has years of 10 million, but the cap hit is only 6.875 this year, and 7.727 for his entire 11 year extension. Higgins (1.7) + Pleky (1.6) + Gorges (1.1) = 4.400 We'd have to demote Pacioretty, Weber, D'Agostini, Chipchura which would only account for about (it is approximate because I haven't actually calculated from when they were all called up) 1 million. If we demote Halak (and he may have to clear waivers) and brought up Denis, that could save about 0.500. This 1.5 million is actuallly 3 million since only half the year is left .... so now we are close, but not quite there to finding that 3.408 million difference in the contracts .... I fully understand your point about Gorges vs. Ranger. If it's a wash in most respects, why trade them at all. It's not just Gorges that concerns me Skilly, it's losing depth on defense. How are we losing depth on defense if we are gaining Paul Ranger? |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 13, 2009 10:36:56 GMT -5
Actually, I believe her name is Caroline and she is French Canadian... And a model/actress, her name is Caroline Portelance ... this is both at the 2007 NHL awards.  SI swimsuit edition  |
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Post by jkr on Jan 13, 2009 12:08:56 GMT -5
I fully understand your point about Gorges vs. Ranger. If it's a wash in most respects, why trade them at all. It's not just Gorges that concerns me Skilly, it's losing depth on defense. How are we losing depth on defense if we are gaining Paul Ranger? Wrong wording on my part. It's not really a gain if they trade Gorges. They don't lose depth but they stand still. |
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Post by blny on Jan 13, 2009 12:54:12 GMT -5
How does Ranger compare to Gorges? While I think Gorges may have flown in under the radar of a lot of teams last year, his strong play has to be changing that. I've never considered Ranger a quality defender, and what little I've heard of him wasn't positive. To me, without clarification, Ranger is a 5-6 guy here. That doesn't replace Gorges' minutes or quality.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 13, 2009 12:54:17 GMT -5
I would love to have a stud centreman, but what is being discussed has a couple of issues for me.
We will lose depth and picks... next year, we could look the the Sens... one line and weak D.
We get a forward with a previously injured shoulder, not sure on it's status
and the most important thing is his ability to withstand the abuse he might have to endure if things go bad. Kovy could endure it because he strikes me as a stubborn guy who won't wilt under the heat of the media in Montreal. IMO, when he gets mad, he responds (ask Darcy). I am not sure about how Vinnie would react.
I would be very careful in this.
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Post by blny on Jan 13, 2009 13:14:10 GMT -5
I don't think Gainey would do the deal without being sure on Vinny's health. It's one thing to take a banged up Niinimaa for Gollum, and something entirely different when you're looking to change the face of the team. This trade would do that.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 13, 2009 13:28:12 GMT -5
I would love to have a stud centreman, but what is being discussed has a couple of issues for me. We will lose depth and picks... next year, we could look the the Sens... one line and weak D. We get a forward with a previously injured shoulder, not sure on it's status and the most important thing is his ability to withstand the abuse he might have to endure if things go bad. Kovy could endure it because he strikes me as a stubborn guy who won't wilt under the heat of the media in Montreal. IMO, when he gets mad, he responds (ask Darcy). I am not sure about how Vinnie would react. I would be very careful in this. We could lose Kovalev, Koivu, Tanguay, and Komisarek next year no matter what we do. Either we keep them or use the cap space to sign comparable talent. Other than Komi, the players we stand to lose are in the declining years of their production, but depending on how the season shakes out I see us re-signing Komi and probably one of Koivu or Kovalev. So it comes down to the quality of the depth behind the guys we would stand to lose. Realistically, Tampa will probably chose 2 players from the list that includes AKost, SKost, Plekanec, Higgins, Latendresse (although Higgins I believe is an RFA for only one more season before he can walk - makes him less desirable IMO). Then they'll probably take Gorges since we have nobody else to offer, plus one of Subban, McDonagh, Fischer, plus a pick. No matter who is involved in the deal, I think we have the depth to cover the losses. The 11-year deal really concerns me. The guy will be 40 years old when it expires. Vinny probably has 5 peak years left, so over half the deal will be paying for a declining player. I don't know if Gainey would ever have agreed to a deal like that. |
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Post by Polarice on Jan 13, 2009 13:53:46 GMT -5
I would trade anyone on this team, including Price to get Vinny.....without question!!!
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Post by Skilly on Jan 13, 2009 15:01:18 GMT -5
How does Ranger compare to Gorges? While I think Gorges may have flown in under the radar of a lot of teams last year, his strong play has to be changing that. I've never considered Ranger a quality defender, and what little I've heard of him wasn't positive. To me, without clarification, Ranger is a 5-6 guy here. That doesn't replace Gorges' minutes or quality. Paul Ranger averages 24:35 ice time a game ... Gorges averages 20:46. So Ranger can clearly cover Gorges minutes.... As for the quality of those minutes, I guess that is up to the individual poster. I see Ranger (256GP , 17G, 71A, 88pts, -4 ) put up pretty decent numbers with the Lightning and I see Gorges (206GP, 2G, 25A, 27pts, +17) with the Sharks and Habs and well this is the first year Josh will break 10 points and almost all of his career +17 is from this year (+16) .... Ranger is a 30 point defensman. To me they are pretty similar in style and ability ... the offensive edge to Ranger and the defensive edge to Gorges, but Ranger isn't in the best place in the world for defensive hockey ... |
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Post by blny on Jan 13, 2009 15:38:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the info skilly.
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Post by roke on Jan 13, 2009 16:07:38 GMT -5
Thanks Skilly.
If we dealt Gorges and got Rangers back, I would then be comfortable with the deal. Ideally, I'd rather give up another prospect and a salary dump instead of Gorges, and get Ranger along with Vinny, but beggars can't be choosers.
As for next year, I don't think Kovalev will be back, Lang won't be back unless Koivu leaves, I desparately hope Koivu will be back, and Tanguay, we'll see.
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Post by jkr on Jan 13, 2009 16:34:19 GMT -5
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 13, 2009 16:38:59 GMT -5
Weber, Belle, Subban, Valentenko, McDonough, O'Byrne (yes, O'byrne) make Komisarek and Brisebois dispensable.
We have lots of good young serviceable forwards coming up too; but no Lecavalier or Tavares. Gainey has built a deep team; one that can be used for trading to get the pieces he feels are missing.
I recommend that D'Agostino and Kostitsyn stay away from Carbonneau's wife.
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Post by roke on Jan 13, 2009 16:40:37 GMT -5
Not to mention, if Montreal's a circus, what does that make Tampa's ownership/management? Uncivilized? Weber, Belle, Subban, Valentenko, McDonough, O'Byrne (yes, O'byrne) make Komisarek and Brisebois dispensable. We have lots of good young serviceable forwards coming up too; but no Lecavalier or Tavares. Gainey has built a deep team; one that can be used for trading to get the pieces he feels are missing. I recommend that D'Agostino and Kostitsyn stay away from Carbonneau's wife. They make Komisarek expendable in a couple years, but as of right now, none of those players seem to be NHL-ready. Valentenko may never come back from Russia, McDonagh's still in University, O'Byrne needs to build some confidence up, Subban's in junior, I don't think Belle will ever be a regular NHLer and Weber's in his first year as a pro. If we want to have a chance of competing today, we can't be subtracting from our current D corps to bolster an already strong forward group. |
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 13, 2009 16:41:23 GMT -5
I don't get all this fuss about Vinny. Aside from one great season, he's just one of a large group of 80 point players in the league. Why would you commit to him for 11 years? And why would you give up a potential franchise goalie for him?
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Post by franko on Jan 13, 2009 18:47:26 GMT -5
here we are talking about how to get better.
in Ottawa they are already talking "sellers" [and why wait for the trade deadline!] and about being int he Tavaras sweeps.
the only thing that would be better would be if the Leafs joined them "just on the outs".
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Post by franko on Jan 13, 2009 18:47:53 GMT -5
fwiw, Ranger is ailing . . . again.
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Post by roke on Jan 13, 2009 18:57:53 GMT -5
here we are talking about how to get better. in Ottawa they are already talking "sellers" [and why wait for the trade deadline!] and about being int he Tavaras sweeps. the only thing that would be better would be if the Leafs joined them "just on the outs". I'd rather see Toronto and Ottawa try to get better in the short-term, and fail  |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 13, 2009 22:19:57 GMT -5
This, off TSN. Vinny doesn't sound like he's at all against the Habs. He states that a trade is out of his control. Says the right things, says he's loyal, but also doesn't say he desperately wants to remain a Bolt. I don't think he'd be in a poor frame of mind if the Habs did pick him up. tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=263058&lid=sublink02&lpos=headlines_main |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jan 13, 2009 22:40:18 GMT -5
That 11 year deal is so anti-Gainey though. $7.7M annual cap hit well past his prime is a big risk too. In this time of economic uncertainty around the cap, these factors likely tie up Gainey's hands more than he likely would be comfortable.
That to me outweighs the home town, big centre factor you get back in return. Purely risk-reward.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 14, 2009 1:41:49 GMT -5
I don't have the link for this, but on another site, it was stated that the Score's Steve Kouleas (?) stated that Gainey has made a formal offer to Tampa for Vinny. Kouleas is not a rumour monger and is a straight shooter, so if he did indeed say that, the burner is being turned up.
No info on the players involved in the offer.
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 14, 2009 2:17:59 GMT -5
I don't have the link for this, but on another site, it was stated that the Score's Steve Kouleas (?) stated that Gainey has made a formal offer to Tampa for Vinny. Kouleas is not a rumour monger and is a straight shooter, so if he did indeed say that, the burner is being turned up. No info on the players involved in the offer. I should get back in the habit of watching Kouleas on Score Tonight at midnight. He's great to watch, and The Score shows more highlights than any other station. |
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Post by franko on Jan 14, 2009 6:41:27 GMT -5
That 11 year deal is so anti-Gainey though. $7.7M annual cap hit well past his prime is a big risk too. In this time of economic uncertainty around the cap, these factors likely tie up Gainey's hands more than he likely would be comfortable. Maybe he'll pull a [why can't I come up with a name? Anyone? Bueller?] and get the Prince, win a Cup, stick around for a year or two, then retire . . . and it won't be his problem any more. Definitely not Gainey's style. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 14, 2009 8:19:36 GMT -5
I don't have the link for this, but on another site, it was stated that the Score's Steve Kouleas (?) stated that Gainey has made a formal offer to Tampa for Vinny. Kouleas is not a rumour monger and is a straight shooter, so if he did indeed say that, the burner is being turned up. No info on the players involved in the offer. I should get back in the habit of watching Kouleas on Score Tonight at midnight. He's great to watch, and The Score shows more highlights than any other station. I like Kouleas too, along with Dutch on TSN. They seem to like the Habs and that is OK with me. I say wait until the bolts fold and pick Vinny up as a free agent ;D |
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Post by jkr on Jan 14, 2009 8:33:28 GMT -5
I don't have the link for this, but on another site, it was stated that the Score's Steve Kouleas (?) stated that Gainey has made a formal offer to Tampa for Vinny. Kouleas is not a rumour monger and is a straight shooter, so if he did indeed say that, the burner is being turned up. No info on the players involved in the offer. What I don't understand is where is all this info coming from? Security around Bell Centre information is more tightly controlled than the CIA. Are the leaks coming from Tampa? I heard Kypreos on the FAN590 last night. I don't know how well he's plugged in but he claims to know for a fact that BG made an offer to Tampa for VL before he signed the long term deal. Kypreos stated that Lecavalier wanted no part of it then or now. I don't know how much credibility the guy has though. |
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Post by jkr on Jan 14, 2009 8:38:17 GMT -5
I don't get all this fuss about Vinny. Aside from one great season, he's just one of a large group of 80 point players in the league. Why would you commit to him for 11 years? And why would you give up a potential franchise goalie for him? I'll split hairs a little & say last year was quite good too - 40 goals & 92 points. I haven't heard any rumors involving Price. That would be a non-starter for me as well. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 14, 2009 8:43:27 GMT -5
That 11 year deal is so anti-Gainey though. $7.7M annual cap hit well past his prime is a big risk too. In this time of economic uncertainty around the cap, these factors likely tie up Gainey's hands more than he likely would be comfortable. Maybe he'll pull a [why can't I come up with a name? Anyone? Bueller?] and get the Prince, win a Cup, stick around for a year or two, then retire . . . and it won't be his problem any more. Burke? |
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Post by franko on Jan 14, 2009 10:05:10 GMT -5
What I don't understand is where is all this info coming from? Security around Bell Centre information is more tightly controlled than the CIA. Are the leaks coming from Tampa? just might be the question of the day. BG is normally more tight-lipped than . . . well, I'm too nice a guy to even think it! Kypreos and credibility in the same sentence? That's like saying Eklund and credibility in the same sentence! |
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