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Post by BadCompany on Jul 8, 2009 12:00:06 GMT -5
It's easy to blame Kovalev and say he wanted to squeeze every last penny out of Gainey, but when did he receive his FIRST contract offer from the organization? June 30th?? When did the Habs season end?
Sure, you can argue "Vinny" but even still, Gainey knew at the draft he wasn't coming here, so that gave him more than a week to negotiate with Kovalev, but he didn't. Was it because he was working on the Gomez trade? Perhaps, but can't he work on two things at once??
It may have gone "too fast" but only because Gainey waited to start the whole process, not because Kovalev was trying to be greedy, in my opinion. Start this whole thing a week earlier and I think Kovalev would be a Hab now.
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Post by MC Habber on Jul 8, 2009 12:34:13 GMT -5
I agree with BC. Also, waiting so long to make Kovalev an offer didn't exactly send him the message that he was wanted in Montreal.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 8, 2009 13:30:54 GMT -5
Good point BC. I'll never really understand why all those weeks leading to July 1st were not better used... But then again there was that sale thing... Did it have an effect?
According to Kovalev himself though, they had discussions prior to June 30th and he really thought he'd stay, so it is reasonable to think that while Bob couldn't give him the numbers right away, the offer would come once the #1 center had been cleared. Why wait on that? I dunno... And it did. Not a low ball offer too, at 36, you get a 2 year deal for 10mil to stay with the team you want, and you know the timing is critical, why on earth do you start fiddling about?!
It's quite incredible how a GM that wanted a certain player and that player really wanting to be on the team, completely missed the boat...
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Post by jkr on Jul 8, 2009 14:41:53 GMT -5
I don't agree with this sentiment at all. I'm not certain but I think I read somewhere that Gainey had offered contracts to Kovalev & Komisarek on the Sunday before free agency - June 28th, 2 days after the draft on June 26th. Even with this compressed deadline he still got a very good offer, one that he eventually accepted from Ottawa (where there were no time constraints.)
He chose to ask for more - he didn't get it from Montreal or Ottawa. It was a lot to ask, one more year at 4.5-5 million that counts against the cap whether he plays or not. That was a lot to ask & that's on him.
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Post by MC Habber on Jul 8, 2009 20:16:50 GMT -5
It's quite incredible how a GM that wanted a certain player and that player really wanting to be on the team, completely missed the boat... It is, but it happens all the time in all sorts of relationships. Two people like each other but they screw up the negotiations.... Oh well. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 8, 2009 23:05:46 GMT -5
I've been in this sort of situation and you usually have an end in mind you want to achieve. Trouble is you absolutely have to nail down step 1 before you proceed to step 2. Trying to do 2 first sometimes works, but sometimes doesn't and when it doesn't, well, you know the story about mice and men and plans going agley and all that. Who knows the truth, but it seems Gainey was after Vinny. He gets Vinny and it changes who he needs, at what price. You don't get Vinny, you go to Plan B. But you know that you've been played before and you are adamant it will not happen again. You make a reasonable offer for someone you'd like to have but there's a shelf life on the offer and if it expires, you leave it on the shelf. For all my criticism of Gainey, much of it warranted, I think he made his plans, and executed them as well as could be expected. He has a smurfish, harder working, faster and smarter team today than he had in April with emphasis on the faster and smarter. We'll have to see if we're any better.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 9, 2009 0:40:30 GMT -5
For all my criticism of Gainey, much of it warranted, I think he made his plans, and executed them as well as could be expected. My feelings as well. We can't fault Gainey this time for sitting on his hands, waiting and waiting for player XYZ to make up his mind. |
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Post by gy on Jul 9, 2009 11:25:58 GMT -5
Assuming the Sens get someone worthwhile by trading Heatley, we could look at it like Heatlry for Kovalev + player(s) X (+Y). I just hope that Kovalev doesn't rain goals on the Habs. He can do it and he can make our D look foolish.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 19, 2009 16:26:59 GMT -5
It's easy to blame Kovalev and say he wanted to squeeze every last penny out of Gainey, but when did he receive his FIRST contract offer from the organization? June 30th?? When did the Habs season end? Heard something interesting on The Team 990 while passing through Montreal earlier today. According to this announcer (it was a replay of an earlier show) the Kovalev scenario unfolded like this. a. Gainey makes a 2-year offer @ what is believed to be $4 mill to $4.25 mill per year. b. Kovalev's agent comes back saying they'll consider it. c. Gainey approaches the Kovalev camp again and ups the offer to 2 years @ $4.5 mill per year. d. Kovalev's agent is now also working on getting his other client, Marian Gaborik, to the Rangers. He tells Kovalev that he can get him a 3-year deal @ $5 mill per year if he just waits (can't remember if the announcer said whether Kovalev actually knew what the Habs final offer was or not. It's possible he really didn't know anything other than "I'll get you a 3-year deal"). e. While Kovalev's agent is negotiating with the Rangers, Gainey signs Gionta with the money he had put aside for Kovalev. f. Kovalev is caught off guard by this and says it was always his intent to stay in Montreal. He eventually ends up signing with the Senators. Like I said, I don't know who the announcer was but I think it was a replay of an earlier clip. Cheers. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jul 19, 2009 16:43:22 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case. Kovalev of all people loved Montreal for both the fans and press attention. It doesn't make sense that he'd walk away from it just because they were off by 500k.
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Post by Anardil1 on Jul 19, 2009 17:37:32 GMT -5
It's easy to blame Kovalev and say he wanted to squeeze every last penny out of Gainey, but when did he receive his FIRST contract offer from the organization? June 30th?? When did the Habs season end? Heard something interesting on The Team 990 while passing through Montreal earlier today. According to this announcer (it was a replay of an earlier show) the Kovalev scenario unfolded like this. a. Gainey makes a 2-year offer @ what is believed to be $4 mill to $4.25 mill per year. b. Kovalev's agent comes back saying they'll consider it. c. Gainey approaches the Kovalev camp again and ups the offer to 2 years @ $4.5 mill per year. d. Kovalev's agent is now also working on getting his other client, Marian Gaborik, to the Rangers. He tells Kovalev that he can get him a 3-year deal @ $5 mill per year if he just waits (can't remember if the announcer said whether Kovalev actually knew what the Habs final offer was or not. It's possible he really didn't know anything other than "I'll get you a 3-year deal"). e. While Kovalev's agent is negotiating with the Rangers, Gainey signs Gionta with the money he had put aside for Kovalev. f. Kovalev is caught off guard by this and says it was always his intent to stay in Montreal. He eventually ends up signing with the Senators. Like I said, I don't know who the announcer was but I think it was a replay of an earlier clip. Cheers. It was probably a replay of Tony Marinaro commenting on how it all passed. The Team 990 tends to play little snippets of past shows for promotion purposes. |
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Post by blny on Jul 20, 2009 9:32:42 GMT -5
If that is how it played out then Alex and his agent should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps his agent lead him to believe there was a 3 year deal out there, but if he really wanted to stay in Montreal he should have jumped through hoops at the two year deal and told his agent to get stuffed.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 20, 2009 10:47:17 GMT -5
If that is how it played out then Alex and his agent should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps his agent lead him to believe there was a 3 year deal out there, but if he really wanted to stay in Montreal he should have jumped through hoops at the two year deal and told his agent to get stuffed. If I remember right, the announcer said something similar, BLNY. Something along the lines of, "... we'll see just how happy Kovalev is with his agent ..." Cheers. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jul 20, 2009 11:36:22 GMT -5
It's been a long, long time since we've had someone aside from Koivu who's talented AND wanted to be in Montreal. If this is actually how it went down, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed.
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Post by Andrew on Jul 20, 2009 14:52:45 GMT -5
It's been a long, long time since we've had someone aside from Koivu who's talented AND wanted to be in Montreal. If this is actually how it went down, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. I'm disappointed to see Kovy go for the same reasons, but am welcoming a change on the top line. From what I've read, Gomez (like Kovalev), often needs to be pushed to play at his best. He and Kovalev on the same line could have been a huge disaster. It remains to be seen what impact Gionta will have, but by all accounts he plays hard every shift. Either way, thanks to Kovy for 4+ years of service, and being the most exciting Hab in a long time. A few of my favorite Kovy moments: - When he dropped his glove and reclaimed it while controlling the puck - Getting roughed up, and losing his helmet, and then scoring - reminiscent of Lafleur with his big mop of blond hair - The tying goal in the 5-0 comeback vs. the Rangers. |
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Post by jkr on Jul 20, 2009 14:55:23 GMT -5
It's been a long, long time since we've had someone aside from Koivu who's talented AND wanted to be in Montreal. If this is actually how it went down, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. I'm disappointed to see Kovy go for the same reasons, but am welcoming a change on the top line. From what I've read, Gomez (like Kovalev), often needs to be pushed to play at his best. He and Kovalev on the same line could have been a huge disaster. It remains to be seen what impact Gionta will have, but by all accounts he plays hard every shift. Either way, thanks to Kovy for 4+ years of service, and being the most exciting Hab in a long time. A few of my favorite Kovy moments: - When he dropped his glove and reclaimed it while controlling the puck - Getting roughed up, and losing his helmet, and then scoring - reminiscent of Lafleur with his big mop of blond hair - The tying goal in the 5-0 comeback vs. the Rangers. I'll add the forearm to Tucker after that little weasel tried to knee him. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 20, 2009 16:01:32 GMT -5
Kovalev will do well with the forwards that Ottawa has. or he won't? Impossible to predict which Kovalev shows up. Over 82 games both will show up. Depends which one shows up more often.
I'm not that sorry to see Kovy go. A great talent but not always good for the team. I am sorry the way Gainey handled it, wait and hurry up. I regret that Kovalev joins the long list of asstes that were lost for nothing.
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Post by blny on Jul 20, 2009 19:46:34 GMT -5
I'm disappointed to see Kovy go for the same reasons, but am welcoming a change on the top line. From what I've read, Gomez (like Kovalev), often needs to be pushed to play at his best. He and Kovalev on the same line could have been a huge disaster. It remains to be seen what impact Gionta will have, but by all accounts he plays hard every shift. Either way, thanks to Kovy for 4+ years of service, and being the most exciting Hab in a long time. A few of my favorite Kovy moments: - When he dropped his glove and reclaimed it while controlling the puck - Getting roughed up, and losing his helmet, and then scoring - reminiscent of Lafleur with his big mop of blond hair - The tying goal in the 5-0 comeback vs. the Rangers. I'll add the forearm to Tucker after that little weasel tried to knee him. +1000!  |
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Post by Andrew on Jul 20, 2009 22:44:28 GMT -5
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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 22, 2009 7:01:44 GMT -5
Did anyone else see the Kovy media interview w/ the Sens on TSN last night/today? He didn't exactly sound or looked thrilled to be playing with them. I think he really wanted to come back to Montreal.
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Post by jkr on Jul 22, 2009 7:06:18 GMT -5
Did anyone else see the Kovy media interview w/ the Sens on TSN last night/today? He didn't exactly sound or looked thrilled to be playing with them. I think he really wanted to come back to Montreal. I saw it & he looked a little subdued. I wonder if he chose Ottawa because of its proximity to Montreal. I think he and/or his agent misread the situation badly. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 22, 2009 12:54:13 GMT -5
Did anyone else see the Kovy media interview w/ the Sens on TSN last night/today? He didn't exactly sound or looked thrilled to be playing with them. I think he really wanted to come back to Montreal. I saw it & he looked a little subdued. I wonder if he chose Ottawa because of its proximity to Montreal. I think he and/or his agent misread the situation badly. Absolutely guys. I really believe Kovalev knew he was a hero to a large majority of the fan base who will miss him. However, I also think he'll miss that kind of attention big time. That said, I was talking to a Sens fan yesterday and I asked him what he thought about Kovalev in Ottawa. He just rolled his eyes. Too bad really. The guy reminds me of Stephane Richer in a way. Both could dominate a game if they wanted to, but at the same time both were pretty fragile from the neck, up from time to time. Cheers. |
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Post by ValkyrieNS on Jul 23, 2009 21:22:27 GMT -5
Did anyone else see the Kovy media interview w/ the Sens on TSN last night/today? He didn't exactly sound or looked thrilled to be playing with them. I think he really wanted to come back to Montreal. His fave expression seemed to be: "But, llike I said..." Yeah, he didn't look super-thrilled to be there. Yes, he was smiling and all that (probably didn't want to be grumpy in front of all the little kids) but it looked to me like something was missing... such as genuine enthusiasm. Agents suck some days. If Kovy had stayed in Montreal, we wouldn't have to debate who the next captain would be  |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 23, 2009 23:52:37 GMT -5
Money is the root of all stupidity.
Don't blame the agent. It's Kovalev that makes the decisions, not his agent. If he's that dumb to believe his agent that much, then he's gotten what he deserved.
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Post by clear observer on Jul 25, 2009 12:11:54 GMT -5
Money is the root of all stupidity. Don't blame the agent. It's Kovalev that makes the decisions, not his agent. If he's that dumb to believe his agent that much, then he's gotten what he deserved. " Stupidity is the root of all stupidity." |
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Post by HFTO on Aug 27, 2009 17:42:58 GMT -5
Well Kovy endeared himself to Ottawa fans today by saying maybe in two years he could return to Montreal and finish his career.
You had your chance Kovy and you blew it..have fun in Ottawa.
HFTO
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Post by ValkyrieNS on Aug 27, 2009 17:53:19 GMT -5
Well Kovy endeared himself to Ottawa fans today by saying maybe in two years he could return to Montreal and finish his career. You had your chance Kovy and you blew it..have fun in Ottawa. HFTO Did he really say that? Do you have a link or anything? Hubby and I are sitting here in disbelief that he would have actually said that... I don't know how I would feel if he came back to us. I might be worried about his hot/cold moments... but what if he's hot the entire time he's with the Senators? Should we then welcome him home? I wish we knew the whole story behind his jump to Ottawa... |
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Post by HFTO on Aug 27, 2009 19:08:47 GMT -5
Theres a clip on habsinsideout and if you watch tsn it's on the highlight package.No bones about it his heart is in Montreal and he had no problem saying after two years maybe he could return.
HFTO
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Post by HFTO on Aug 27, 2009 19:19:10 GMT -5
Actually Val if you go on the TSN website the full 9 min clip is on the front page.
Reading between Kovy's broken english it's obvious he wanted term from Montreal and didn't get it and after finding little intrest under his terms had to settle for the deal the Habs offered in Ottawa.
HFTO
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Aug 27, 2009 20:28:05 GMT -5
I'm watching it now, HFTO, and Kovalev sounds very sincere. I take it that he really didn't want to leave Montreal and that both he and his agent were caught completely off guard by Montreal's change of direction.
"I was disappointed, I thought for sure I'd be staying here," said Kovalev at his charity golf tournament in Montreal. "I couldn't really understand what had just happened. In the end, I took it from a business point of view. You had a chance to stay here, and you didn't, so you just go and do the job somewhere else. But maybe somewhere in the future I'll be back again, and get the same support."
"I've been back to Montreal four or five times in the last three weeks," Kovalev continued. "Every time you see a fan on the street, (they say) they're really disappointed. That's why I say, maybe after two years I'll be back again. It definitely would be nice to retire here. But it's not for me to talk about Montreal - I'm part of another organization. I'm going to go there and do the best I can and we'll see what happens."
In the video clip he's quite careful not to point fingers and lay blame.
I was kind of sorry to see him go, as I was with Koivu also. I think the change in direction was necessary but at the same time I was really hoping there was room for both of these guys.
Kovy's not getting any younger. I still think he'll have a huge season in Ottawa given the guns they already have.
Cheers.
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