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Post by The New Guy on Apr 12, 2010 11:04:01 GMT -5
Coming from Sheldon, who I generally believe to be a pretty stand up guy, this speaks of deeper troubles in the Oiler organization. Yes, Sheldon jumped ship, thumbing his nose at a good deal of money when he left, but let's not forget his wife and daughter live in the west, and he himself is from Alberta. If he wants out I think that's bad news for the Oilers.
I'd have him back I think - he's not everything we want him to be, but he's decent in his own zone and he's got a wicked shot - but we'd need to clear a lot of cap space to take him on.
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 12, 2010 11:16:40 GMT -5
I'd take him back too, but not for anything significant.
Laraque ($1.5) and Spacek ($3.8) would be my offer. Salaries leaving equals about $5.3 million, which is close enough to Souray's $5.4 million. We'd be exchanging two mistakes (Spacek and Laraque) for their mistake, for equal money, and equal contract lengths. Plus I think Sheldon is a much better player than Spacek is (or Bergeron is, if you're considering roles).
But they could get a much, much better offer, I would think. Maybe expand the deal to "hide" the Souray aspect of it, by including Halak and the brothers for whatever you deem is "fair" hockey value.
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Post by Polarice on Apr 12, 2010 11:17:54 GMT -5
I'd take him back too, but not for anything significant. Laraque ($1.5) and Spacek ($3.8) would be my offer. Salaries leaving equals about $5.3 million, which is close enough to Souray's $5.4 million. We'd be exchanging two mistakes (Spacek and Laraque) for their mistake, for equal money, and equal contract lengths. Plus I think Sheldon is a much better player than Spacek is (or Bergeron is, if you're considering roles). But they could get a much, much better offer, I would think. Maybe expand the deal to "hide" the Souray aspect of it, by including Halak and the brothers for whatever you deem is "fair" hockey value. Spacek and or one of the boobie brothers. |
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Post by blny on Apr 12, 2010 12:51:55 GMT -5
Did we not buy out Laraque? Aside from that BC, I don't mind the idea at all. I'd strongly consider it despite Sheldon's health issues. His risk of injury could be limited somewhat if he were playing a 4-6 role with plenty of PP time. I'd want to speak to him before making the deal. I'd want to be sure he'd be okay with playing in Montreal again; being that far from his family. I'd want to define his role and what he'd accept.
In Spacek's defense, he's been asked to play the side he's not comfortable playing all year. He's been okay defensively, but I was hoping for more offense from him.
Jaro's familiar with Edmonton, his contract isn't too pricey, and he's got no restriction in his contract.
With Souray in the fold you can let MAB go. They may be a wash at both ends of the ice in most aspects, but Souray will provide a better net presence, and more leadership. Souray gives you a combination of MAB and Mara in one player. While the dollars don't match, it ensures a free roster spot for Subban.
Markov-O'Byrne
Souray-Hamrlik
Gill-Gorges
Subban
I don't think that group is any worse than this years. Adding Subban, who looks like he'll be ready next year given his performance this year in Hamilton, gives us another VERY mobile defender with a lot of puck poise and offensive upside.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 12, 2010 13:24:05 GMT -5
In Spacek's defense, he's been asked to play the side he's not comfortable playing all year. He's been okay defensively, but I was hoping for more offense from him. Add Josh Gorges to that list as well, BLNY. I can't relate to what they're saying because I don't think I've ever been made to write with my bad hand. I don't know if that's all that good an example, but like I said before, I don't have any experience playing at that level of sports. Like you and BC, I wouldn't mind Souray coming back this way. It would all depend on the compensation, but I also agree with your "presence" reference. We haven't had any one player go to bat more for his teammates than Souray did. He didn't even think about it. If someone took liberties with any of our players, Souray was there in a flash. The only thing that might distance me from welcoming him back with open arms, might be the way he left before. Gainey was a "dream boss" when Souray was going through what turned out to be a very over-publicized, very overblown break up with his wife. The local media just ran as much "slag Souray" tripe as the could and Gainey stood behind his player. But, when he left, he did so another minor controversy and with a very bitter taste in his mouth. Almost like, "it wasn't my fault." Guys, all I'm saying is I don't know the whole story with Souray. He'd bring back a "presence" (thanks BLNY), which we desparately need. But what else would he bring to Montreal? Would he and his family be happy? Would he be baggage free? Would the media hound him until he says something controversial about his previous tour of duty with Montreal? I dunno ... Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Apr 12, 2010 13:42:58 GMT -5
I'm totally with you Dis. I don't want him here with baggage or distractions. There's enough of that to go around.
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Post by franko on Apr 12, 2010 13:47:04 GMT -5
Did we not buy out Laraque? not yet -- think we have to wait until the end of the season. he has a NMC which is why he's still on the books -- think he'd want to go back to Edmonton? |
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Post by Polarice on Apr 12, 2010 14:03:47 GMT -5
I'm totally with you Dis. I don't want him here with baggage or distractions. There's enough of that to go around. I wonder if they would give him the "C"? |
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Post by blny on Apr 12, 2010 16:13:24 GMT -5
I'm totally with you Dis. I don't want him here with baggage or distractions. There's enough of that to go around. I wonder if they would give him the "C"? I think we're a long way from that, but if the ducks lined up in a row for it I'd have no issue. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 12, 2010 17:53:48 GMT -5
Anyone else feel that the timing for this "announcement" sucks? Couldn't he have waited until after the playoffs to answer questions or state his position?
Just sayin' is all.
Cheers.
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Post by blny on Apr 12, 2010 18:35:57 GMT -5
Season is over for him. I don't think there's any point in waiting. If he's sincere about wanting to be traded, letting management know now helps them imo. They have from now to the draft to formulate a plan and seek best return. That's the first logical time he'd get dealt.
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 12, 2010 21:01:30 GMT -5
The cynic in me harkens back to the fact that, before his injury, he was willing to lift his no-trade in order to get the ball rolling for a deadline deal...and dissed the Oilers in the process.
Souray says that Tambellini hasn't talked to him since mid-January. Hmmmm.....
From Jan. 8.
''I wouldn't at this point hold them back from doing anything that makes the team better,'' Souray told the Journal. ''I came here with a goal (to win). You hope to try to see it out. With where we are right now it's tough to say in the next three years if we're going to see that. If it does come to the point where they ask me (to approve a trade) I wouldn't hold the team back.''
Basically, "I didn't come here to play on a loser...I haven't got time for that...so I want to be moved to a winner."
Think that may have affected Tambellini's attitude toward him? The timing is right.
================================================
And now Souray says that he was treated poorly in Edmonton from Day 1.
Hard to say, but Souray has more than a hint of prima donna about him.
Like to hear Tambellini's take. He'll address it on Wednesday.
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Post by habernac on Apr 13, 2010 23:15:10 GMT -5
he whined about Montreal when he signed in Edm, why would we want that back here?
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Post by Polarice on Apr 14, 2010 6:24:49 GMT -5
The cynic in me harkens back to the fact that, before his injury, he was willing to lift his no-trade in order to get the ball rolling for a deadline deal...and dissed the Oilers in the process. Souray says that Tambellini hasn't talked to him since mid-January. Hmmmm..... From Jan. 8. ''I wouldn't at this point hold them back from doing anything that makes the team better,'' Souray told the Journal. ''I came here with a goal (to win). You hope to try to see it out. With where we are right now it's tough to say in the next three years if we're going to see that. If it does come to the point where they ask me (to approve a trade) I wouldn't hold the team back.''Basically, "I didn't come here to play on a loser...I haven't got time for that...so I want to be moved to a winner." Think that may have affected Tambellini's attitude toward him? The timing is right. ================================================ And now Souray says that he was treated poorly in Edmonton from Day 1. Hard to say, but Souray has more than a hint of prima donna about him. Like to hear Tambellini's take. He'll address it on Wednesday. Souray's biggest issue was that he felt he was rushed back when he was still injured. Saying that they told him that he signed the big contract no go out there and earn it, injured or not. That very game he got in a fight and re-injured his shoulder. |
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Post by CentreHice on Apr 14, 2010 6:36:53 GMT -5
I know, Reap. It's just that he left Montreal bashing the team a bit, saying that he was disappointed in Gainey re: signing him....when he had said earlier in the year that Gainey should focus on signing Markov first.
Sounds like a team guy....but if it doesn't work out.....it has to be somebody else's fault.
At least he speaks his mind.....
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Post by Polarice on Apr 14, 2010 6:58:51 GMT -5
I know, Reap. It's just that he left Montreal bashing the team a bit, saying that he was disappointed in Gainey re: signing him....when he had said earlier in the year that Gainey should focus on signing Markov first. Sounds like a team guy....but if it doesn't work out.....it has to be somebody else's fault. At least he speaks his mind..... Yeah I remember that...he was kinda hurt/mad that he didn't get re-signed, I think he expected a better offer from Gainey. |
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Post by franko on Apr 14, 2010 8:31:40 GMT -5
Season is over for him. I don't think there's any point in waiting. If he's sincere about wanting to be traded, letting management know now helps them imo. They have from now to the draft to formulate a plan and seek best return. That's the first logical time he'd get dealt. management already knows. it's not like there are going to be great offers for an over-paid oft-injured Souray anyway . . . now he's done a Heatley and put the Oilers in a spot and lowered what value they might get from him [mind you, they may be happy dumping his salary and his attitude]. |
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Post by Andrew on Apr 14, 2010 14:38:09 GMT -5
Hmm.. I'm glad we let him walk. | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | Salary | | Bergeron | 60 | 13 | 21 | 34 | -7 | $750,000 | | Souray | 37 | 4 | 9 | 13 | -19 | $5,500,000 |
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Post by blny on Apr 14, 2010 15:07:25 GMT -5
Nik Lidstrom would be a minus player on the current Oilers team. They don't have a single defensively aware forward.
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Post by seventeen on Apr 14, 2010 19:13:34 GMT -5
Hmm.. I'm glad we let him walk. | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | Salary | | Bergeron | 60 | 13 | 21 | 34 | -7 | $750,000 | | Souray | 37 | 4 | 9 | 13 | -19 | $5,500,000 |
Is there a deterrence statistic to compare? Number of players who will fight Bergeron, compared to number of players who will fight Souray? I think Bergeron's numbers will be a lot higher there too. |
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Post by Andrew on Apr 14, 2010 23:19:15 GMT -5
Hmm.. I'm glad we let him walk. | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | Salary | | Bergeron | 60 | 13 | 21 | 34 | -7 | $750,000 | | Souray | 37 | 4 | 9 | 13 | -19 | $5,500,000 |
Is there a deterrence statistic to compare? Number of players who will fight Bergeron, compared to number of players who will fight Souray? I think Bergeron's numbers will be a lot higher there too. There's no question that Souray brings a toughness element that Bergeron doesn't have, but it was also his undoing when he broke his hand in a fight this season. As much as he wants to help the team, he has no business fighting given his injury history. |
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Post by Rhiessan on Apr 15, 2010 1:11:46 GMT -5
I was actually fine when we let Souray go, he has the big shot and is tough but he was at best average defensively (i still have flashbacks of when Spezza made a pilon out of him) and injury prone to boot. If he was here now I garentee he would be hurt, our lack of toughness would of meant him fighting more and his hands are almost as fragile as Benoit Brunet  I wasn't happy about losing Komo but I wasn't really mad either. I also don't have an issue with Spacek, him and Hammer shut down some big time players this year and we're going to need him through the playoffs. I think Spacek is the type of guy you need to give an assignment to, it seems to focus him and keeps his wandering way down. The only glaring mistake we have made on the blueline was letting Streit go, man did Gainey, myself and 3/4's of this board screw the pouch on that one. |
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Post by Skilly on Apr 15, 2010 7:34:56 GMT -5
If we still had Streit, we wouldn't have picked up one of Tanguay or Lang
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Post by clear observer on Apr 15, 2010 11:44:41 GMT -5
Pass.
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Post by Rhiessan on Apr 15, 2010 12:41:08 GMT -5
If we still had Streit, we wouldn't have picked up one of Tanguay or Lang Yeah, I remember but it was still huge mistake, I know nothing could of stopped it at the time, it just sucks heh. Especially considering that Streit, a defenceman has scored more than 70% of the points of both Lang and Tang together in the last 2 years (105 of 146)  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 15, 2010 16:32:57 GMT -5
If we still had Streit, we wouldn't have picked up one of Tanguay or Lang Right you are, Skilly. I remember Gainey mentioning that very thing. Cheers. |
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Post by Polarice on Apr 20, 2010 7:29:56 GMT -5
I think we could use someone like Souray right now!!  |
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Post by blny on Apr 20, 2010 16:52:24 GMT -5
I see some comments about Souray fighting and his wrist. I don't think you get him for his fighting ability. He can stand up and lay down some law without taking on all comers. I'd like to think that PG will look at replacing BGL with someone that WILL do what he was hired to do and be able to play the game.
Carcillo and Asham are the kind of guys I'm talking about. Not necessarily heavyweight champs, but capable of dishing out justice, and willing to do it. Both can play the game too. Asham is a UFA this Summer, Carcillo an RFA.
With fewer defenders on a roster, I prefer they don't fight - or at least as little as possible. I don't like the trade off of a 4th liner for a d-man for 5 minutes.
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Post by Polarice on Apr 21, 2010 6:07:12 GMT -5
Carcillo and Asham are the kind of guys I'm talking about. Not necessarily heavyweight champs, but capable of dishing out justice, and willing to do it. Both can play the game too. Asham is a UFA this Summer, Carcillo an RFA. With fewer defenders on a roster, I prefer they don't fight - or at least as little as possible. I don't like the trade off of a 4th liner for a d-man for 5 minutes. Carcillo for Halak maybe? |
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Post by blny on Apr 25, 2010 10:48:13 GMT -5
Carcillo and Asham are the kind of guys I'm talking about. Not necessarily heavyweight champs, but capable of dishing out justice, and willing to do it. Both can play the game too. Asham is a UFA this Summer, Carcillo an RFA. With fewer defenders on a roster, I prefer they don't fight - or at least as little as possible. I don't like the trade off of a 4th liner for a d-man for 5 minutes. Carcillo for Halak maybe? At the draft? If we pull off the upset, big if, Halak's a big part of it. The further they go, the greater his value going into the draft. I think he's worth more than Carcillo right now. |
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