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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 11, 2010 21:48:42 GMT -5
So with AK lost for 6 weeks (and depending where you look some say 8 to 10) I think Bob has to move if he wants to salvage a playoff spot. If Gionta's injury taught us anything, it's that we do not have the offensive depth to replace a top 6 player. All of SK, D'Ago, Moen, Pax, Lapierre, Metro, etc... have been tried in the absence of Gio, none of them worked, so there is nothing to leads us to believe the answer lies within. We need to trade.
First target: Tkachuck (2.1). Yeah I know he's older, lost a step, etc... But for a stretch run, he's better than anything we have as far as "experiments" and he brings character, experience as well as some much needed size and grit in the top 6.
Cost: I say SK straight up.
Second move: Carolina
Brind'Amour (3)
Tom Kostopoulos (800k)
Brindy brings some much needed experience for the lower lines, character and leadership too with PK savvy and faceoff excellence when we'll need it. He'll also give you that timely goal which tends to breaks an opponents back. I'm hoping he can coax back Moen into the gritty player we tought we were getting. Kosto is the energy we're missing on the lower lines, an "in your face" player that can spark a 4th line. I'd pair him again with Laps and put Pacioretty on that line to do what Lats was doing last year.
Cost: D'Agostiny and a second.
Cammalleri - Pleks - Tkachuk
Pouliot - Gomez - Gionta
Metropolit - Brind'Amour - Moen
Pacioretty- Lapierre - Kostopoulos
Nothing spectacular but a lot of experience, grit and character to complement our core which will be important down the line.
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Post by ValkyrieNS on Jan 11, 2010 22:04:29 GMT -5
First target: Tkachuck (2.1). Yeah I know he's older, lost a step, etc... But for a stretch run, he's better than anything we have as far as "experiments" and he brings character, experience as well as some much needed size and grit in the top 6. Cost: I say SK straight up. Second move: Carolina Brind'Amour (3) Tom Kostopoulos (800k) Cost: D'Agostiny and a second. Cammalleri - Pleks - Tkachuk Pouliot - Gomez - Gionta Metropolit - Tkachuk - Moen Pacioretty- Lapierre - Kostopoulos Doc, you've got Tkachuk up there twice [and he's injured at the moment, from scoring his 10th goal of the season by using his mouth instead of his stick... why do I know this? He's on my Yahoo team  ] So where are you putting Brindy? And I like what you've suggested we give up... works for me! |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 11, 2010 22:15:31 GMT -5
First target: Tkachuck (2.1). Yeah I know he's older, lost a step, etc... But for a stretch run, he's better than anything we have as far as "experiments" and he brings character, experience as well as some much needed size and grit in the top 6. Cost: I say SK straight up. Second move: Carolina Brind'Amour (3) Tom Kostopoulos (800k) Cost: D'Agostiny and a second. Cammalleri - Pleks - Tkachuk Pouliot - Gomez - Gionta Metropolit - Tkachuk - Moen Pacioretty- Lapierre - Kostopoulos Doc, you've got Tkachuk up there twice [and he's injured at the moment, from scoring his 10th goal of the season by using his mouth instead of his stick... why do I know this? He's on my Yahoo team ] So where are you putting Brindy? And I like what you've suggested we give up... works for me! Fixed |
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Post by franko on Jan 11, 2010 22:34:12 GMT -5
I can't believe I'm asking this, Doc . . . but why? Just to get into the playoffs to get blown out? Or maybe sneak into the second round? With these moves plus AK back we still ren';t good enough.
Now if you are talking Kovalchuk . . .
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 11, 2010 22:55:11 GMT -5
I can't believe I'm asking this, Doc . . . but why? Just to get into the playoffs to get blown out? Or maybe sneak into the second round? With these moves plus AK back we still ren';t good enough. Now if you are talking Kovalchuk . . . Not with Gomez's contract on the books... I heard on the radio today that Kovalchuk is asking for 10+ mill/per. And also that he doesn't want a huge hockey market. He wants his privacy. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 11, 2010 23:16:10 GMT -5
I can't believe I'm asking this, Doc . . . but why? Just to get into the playoffs to get blown out? Or maybe sneak into the second round? With these moves plus AK back we still ren';t good enough. Now if you are talking Kovalchuk . . . That's my thinking too. If we don't make it, we don't make it. I don't want to give up anything for stop gap measures that won't make the team better next year and 3 years from now. All those guys bring something, Doc, but they're either more of what we have (Kosto), or their shelf life is at or near an end. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 12, 2010 0:28:02 GMT -5
This season in particular, I would rather see what this team can do on their own merit without any serious acquisitions. I'd be a moderate seller, accepting bids on any impending UFAs (and even some RFAs) not named Plekanec (and even him, if he's not yet under contract at the deadline). I wouldn't trade everyone, but just a select few
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Post by franko on Jan 12, 2010 6:54:05 GMT -5
Kovalchuk is asking for 10+ mill/per. Atlanta beat actually using the "11" figure. and to be on a winning team -- or at least a team committed to win. does he not realize that his $11M chunk makes it more difficult to sign decent players to surround him so the team can be decent? |
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Post by blny on Jan 12, 2010 7:43:45 GMT -5
Kovalchuk could be signed, and we'd be over the cap for a year (without a trade). After that we'd have to dress peewee players on defense.
Nothing about acquiring Tkachuk or Brind'Amour excites me. They're old, lost more than a step, and aren't exactly contributing at a high level this year. I'm all for a trade that makes us better long term, but I don't think we have the team to consider a short term fix.
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 12, 2010 10:05:05 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what Gainey does this year, at the trade deadline. He will undoubtedly be under an enormous amount of pressure to not only make the playoffs, but to actually do something once there. So in that respect I definitely see him as being a buyer, even if that's not the best long-term interests of the team.
If the team falls short, if Gainey's moves backfire, I can see him walking away, either of his own volition, or with the point of a sword in his back. While some may think that's a good thing, I look at the list of potential replacements and wonder if it really is. In my opinion, in this order, here are Gainey's potential replacements:
* Pierre McGuire
* Jacques Martin
* Patrick Roy
* Pierre Gauthier
So we have to ask ourselves, is sacrificing a D'Agostini for a rental in the hopes of saving Gainey's job worth it? Or would we be better off as minor sellers and one of the above directing the team this summer?
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Post by ValkyrieNS on Jan 12, 2010 10:51:02 GMT -5
Kovalchuk could be signed, and we'd be over the cap for a year (without a trade). After that we'd have to dress peewee players on defense. Remember, I have an "in" with Atlanta... and trust me, we don't want Ilya. In my opinion, in this order, here are Gainey's potential replacements: * Pierre McGuire * Jacques Martin * Patrick Roy * Pierre Gauthier 1) would make me ill 2) ok 3) ok-ish 4) don't know the guy, have no opinion So basically, it's the same old, same old? We're damned if we do and damned if we don't? Zut! |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 12, 2010 11:04:56 GMT -5
So with AK lost for 6 weeks (and depending where you look some say 8 to 10) I think Bob has to move if he wants to salvage a playoff spot. If Gionta's injury taught us anything, it's that we do not have the offensive depth to replace a top 6 player. All of SK, D'Ago, Moen, Pax, Lapierre, Metro, etc... have been tried in the absence of Gio, none of them worked, so there is nothing to leads us to believe the answer lies within. We need to trade. First target: Tkachuck (2.1). Yeah I know he's older, lost a step, etc... But for a stretch run, he's better than anything we have as far as "experiments" and he brings character, experience as well as some much needed size and grit in the top 6. Cost: I say SK straight up. Second move: Carolina Brind'Amour (3) Tom Kostopoulos (800k) Brindy brings some much needed experience for the lower lines, character and leadership too with PK savvy and faceoff excellence when we'll need it. He'll also give you that timely goal which tends to breaks an opponents back. I'm hoping he can coax back Moen into the gritty player we tought we were getting. Kosto is the energy we're missing on the lower lines, an "in your face" player that can spark a 4th line. I'd pair him again with Laps and put Pacioretty on that line to do what Lats was doing last year. Cost: D'Agostiny and a second. Cammalleri - Pleks - Tkachuk Pouliot - Gomez - Gionta Metropolit - Brind'Amour - Moen Pacioretty- Lapierre - Kostopoulos Nothing spectacular but a lot of experience, grit and character to complement our core which will be important down the line. At the very least you've provided a starting point for discussion, Doc. My question would be, will it matter who Gainey brings in given the style of play our coach demands? I'll refer to BC's comments to me the other day. Perhaps the Latendresse-for-Pouliot deal was more about two players not fitting into their teams' systems. If this is so, it also fits with your comment that Minnesota is allowing Lats to play his game and he's responding to that support. You know I wish Gui well in Minnesota, but at the same time it's discouraging. Would Gui have excelled under a different system of play? And if so, is that system in Montreal actually holding back others as well? For me, these are tough questions because I've seen our club change up systems as the game goes on. They've gone on the attack very well and gone into defensive shells all in the same game. I don't think it's any kind of new concept, but I feel that defensive system has hurt us here and there over the season. Now the injuries didn't help matters either, granted. Still, are some of our better players being held back? Very honestly I couldn't tell you one way or the other. But, if it is the system that's holding some of our offense back then I really don't know which player, if any, would make a difference. Like I said, though, I really don't know. Cheers. |
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Post by blny on Jan 12, 2010 11:22:02 GMT -5
Remember, I have an "in" with Atlanta... and trust me, we don't want Ilya. It wasn't about want. It was about being able to fit him in. And, in theory, we could without even really purging a forward. We'd just be playing with 12 year olds on the blue line. 1) would make me ill 2) ok 3) ok-ish 4) don't know the guy, have no opinion So basically, it's the same old, same old? We're damned if we don't and damned if we don't? Zut! 2) Why people throw his name out there baffles me. He's akin to hiring Reggie Houle (as ironic as that sounds). Aside from his time with the Remparts, in which he's hardly exemplified elite leadership and management, he's got no experience that would indicate he's remotely ready for the job. 4) He's currently our head pro scout. |
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 12, 2010 11:33:14 GMT -5
I have to say, I wouldn't mind McGuire as a GM. I mean, I might have to find a secondary team to be a fan of, but it would at least force him to use his expertise and take a stance for once. Everyone would finally find out what he's got.
I just want a GM that understands leverage and contract management, because it's become clear to me that Gainey does not. McGuire understands leverage, but certainly has no experience managing contracts.
Pierre Gauthier is only an option if you're content with the job Gainey's done. He's the understudy. "Content" would be the most optimistic adjective to describe my satisfaction with Gainey's tenure.
I have little faith in Jacques Martin as a general manager, but he has gotten the good end of several trades. He got Shawn Matthias in exchange for Todd Bertuzzi as a rental, and dealt Jokinen for a decent amount. I just don't have faith in coach-turned-GMs.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 12, 2010 11:53:19 GMT -5
If the team falls short, if Gainey's moves backfire, I can see him walking away, either of his own volition, or with the point of a sword in his back. While some may think that's a good thing, I look at the list of potential replacements and wonder if it really is. In my opinion, in this order, here are Gainey's potential replacements: * Pierre McGuire * Jacques Martin * Patrick Roy * Pierre Gauthier So we have to ask ourselves, is sacrificing a D'Agostini for a rental in the hopes of saving Gainey's job worth it? Or would we be better off as minor sellers and one of the above directing the team this summer? I think (hope) the Molson's would be more imaginative in their search for a new GM if and when it comes to that .Undoubtedly there are lots of smart, capable and perhaps bilingual assistant GM's in the league who would be chomping at the bit to land a GM position. You need to cast a wide net and not just fall back on the usual suspects. And at this point I'm more of a seller at the deadline. Deal Hamrlik and Pleks if you don't think you can sign him. And the longer things go, the more I think Kovalchuk will hit the market next summer as a UFA. Why should he sign now? |
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Post by CrocRob on Jan 12, 2010 12:08:15 GMT -5
It's going to take hitting the UFA market for Kovalchuk (or his agent, whoever) to find out that there just isn't the money out there that he's asking. No team will sign him for $11M for more than 3-4 years. If he wants a career-long contract, he's going to have to reduce his terms.
Kovalchuk is the second or third best goalscorer in the NHL, but just doesn't do enough elsewhere on the rink to justify paying a half million dollars -- or more -- for each goal he scores.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 12, 2010 12:50:14 GMT -5
In my opinion, in this order, here are Gainey's potential replacements: * Pierre McGuire * Jacques Martin * Patrick Roy * Pierre Gauthier Of this list I think Jacques Martin would be my selection, BC. He's got GM experience and he knows the players in the league. Question though: Would you employ him in a dual capacity or would you bring in a new coach? I feel Pierre McGuire is very knowledgable WRT knowing the players around the league, but I'm not so sure about him as a GM. He's passionate, yet emotional; he also enjoys the limelight a heck of a lot. I don't know about this guy man. Patrick Roy: BC, I just don't trust the man. Pierre Gauthier: Well, he's Gainey's understudy and of the candidates on your list I think he'd probably be the frontrunner given his position. His teams in Ottawa were extremely skilled and swift, but generally speaking, they weren't all that effective in the playoffs. Jacques Martin would be my choice on the list you provided; however, I wonder if Carolina could be convinced to let Marshall Johnston go from his duties as Director of Professional Scouting. This is the guy who made the Senators tougher as a team and he's also the guy who told Alexei Ya$hin to honour the terms of his contract or face legal action. However, he's also 68 years old now. I don't know if he'd have the energy. Also, I don't know what his French is like, so that might be a factor as well. Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 12, 2010 14:38:31 GMT -5
here are Gainey's potential replacements: * Pierre McGuire * Jacques Martin * Patrick Roy * Pierre Gauthier Pierre Lacroix Francois Giguere |
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Post by HFTO on Jan 12, 2010 17:36:42 GMT -5
Unless there is a major blockbuster deal out there that helps us extensively... that could remodel the remodel,I'm not prone to bringing in washed up players just to make it in the playoffs.
Chances are we will draw Buffalo or New Jersey two stifling teams that will take us out so why weaken us further with no chance to win.If we get in with this club we get in,,but not at the expense of taking has beens back.
As painful as it is I'd lean towards being minor sellers as BC mentioned and get some cap space back.
Ideally moving Gomez is what need to be done as that contract is just to crippling but thats unlikely to happen.
If this season unfolds like it appears with a missed spot or the same squeak in and out then Gainey has to go.
Going forward I don't know where to turn Roy as heroic as is may seem to the public maybe too risky.
Is McGuire as sharp as he thinks he is??or can Martin do the job??..did he make any impact in his short stint in Florida as far as Guathier goes I wouldn't touch him especially with his recent track record as a pro scout.Whatever happens this team is a good couple pieces from contending and finding those pieces..well good luck in this era.
HFTO
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Post by cigarviper on Jan 12, 2010 18:01:14 GMT -5
Pierre Lacroix is an interesting mention. I would have to seriously question my devotion to the team if Pierre McGuire was in any way part of the organization. He's just so full of turd. I can see Gainey stepping down and Martin becoming GM. I think this is the reason he quit Florida to come here in the first place. Whether it's in an interim capacity or not is hard to tell. I think the Molsons would want stability, experience and a GM who's not afraid to swing for the fences in a calculated proactive fashion.
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Post by OopyDoopy on Jan 12, 2010 18:45:14 GMT -5
I for one do not want to see trading unproven prospects for over the hill; past their prime; one step from retirement; nothing to prove; playoff mercenary; 2 month rental; no business being in the NHL; save the GM job; one step forward two steps back player.....
This team is not a character player or two or playoff rental away in my opinion we are an elite player or two away.
If the UFA's cannot be signed by deadline then they need to be traded, even if this team is entrenched in a playoff run and sitting 5th these assets cannot be lost for nothing anymore!
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Post by seventeen on Jan 13, 2010 2:17:11 GMT -5
Pierre Lacroix is an interesting mention. Lacroix was very successful with the Avalanche. I'm not totally sold on him because his success came in large part because he had money to spend and no CAP to deal with. The good things about him?...I think he knows how to build a team, he developed an excellent scouting staff that is still in place in Colorado and he seemed to do fairly well with his trades. That's actually a lot of positives in his favour. |
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Post by blny on Jan 13, 2010 7:37:51 GMT -5
Lacroix is an interesting, and somewhat ironic, possibility. He's got the cred to be sure.
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Post by Douper on Jan 13, 2010 7:56:15 GMT -5
I believe if it's Jacques he won't have both jobs. You can't do both in Montreal and come out with your head still attached. you can do it in Phx, Tampa, Florida but not in Montreal. Not with 20+mics in your face every morning and post game.
If Martin goes up, Boucher will be elevated to HC. Then Boucher will get his feet wet, be fired and then go coach a team that has a great goalie and succeed.
I believe unless we take down the language barrier for our GM or Coach we might be short changing ourselves as an organization.
IF Holland and Babcock become available tomorrow....ANd the best Francophone options are McGuire and Hartley, how po'd would you be if we chose the later?
If the molsons look at something this season and in the offseason they have to look at the people whispering in Bob's Ear. Timmons, Gauthier, the scouting department. These people have to be accountable as much as Bob. Fact of the matter is hockey is a team game on the ice and in the front office.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 13, 2010 9:55:53 GMT -5
If Martin goes up, Boucher will be elevated to HC. Then Boucher will get his feet wet, be fired and then go coach a team that has a great goalie and succeed. LOL! Sadly, I can see that happening. I do think the organization views Boucher as the next head coach. And I agree we can't restrict our choices to the usual suspects. If Gainey does indeed step down I think there will be a complete overhaul of the pro and amateur scouting areas. Who is the assistant GM in Detroit? San Jose? We need to think outside the box but in a smart way. I would rather bring in a bright young assistant who has been around a successful organization (DET, NJ, SJ) and knows what it takes, rather than a guy like Pierre Lacroix who has been out of the loop for a while or Pierre Gauthier who has been part of the problem in Montreal, or Jacques Martin who didn't exactly do wonders in Fla. And no thanks to bringing in vets for a doomed playoff run. And I would still explore what Price would bring in a trade. |
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Post by HABSINFL on Jan 14, 2010 9:44:21 GMT -5
I say Serge Savard a long time association and friendship with the Molsons, is probably a most likely candidate.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 15, 2010 14:49:39 GMT -5
I can't believe I'm asking this, Doc . . . but why? Just to get into the playoffs to get blown out? Or maybe sneak into the second round? With these moves plus AK back we still ren';t good enough. I'd say why not? I know we're not among the favorites but we're hanging in a group that can rank from 5 to 13... Why not tweak the team a little to be the best we can this year? Other teams will do it. I don't think Bob will sell the farm for a few months of Kovalchuck (which others will do) but a few simple tweaks to address some issues we have? I'd be all for it. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 15, 2010 15:03:05 GMT -5
It's going to take hitting the UFA market for Kovalchuk (or his agent, whoever) to find out that there just isn't the money out there that he's asking. No team will sign him for $11M for more than 3-4 years. If he wants a career-long contract, he's going to have to reduce his terms. Kovalchuk is the second or third best goalscorer in the NHL, but just doesn't do enough elsewhere on the rink to justify paying a half million dollars -- or more -- for each goal he scores. 1. We are up against the cap and Atlanta is not. 2. Bringing up an old thread, Quebec still has the highest tax rate in North America. 3. His name is not LeKovalchouk. 4. Being born in Ontario 5 miles from the Quebec border isn't pure laine enough for some fans. Born in the USSR, by Bruce Springsteen?? 5. 6,000 reporters are waiting to crucify his every move in two languages instead of 3 cub reporters in Atlanta. 6. Koivu wasn't bilingual enough when he visited sick children in hospitals. I'd love to see him in the flannel, but I don't think it will happen. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 15, 2010 15:04:18 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what Gainey does this year, at the trade deadline. He will undoubtedly be under an enormous amount of pressure to not only make the playoffs, but to actually do something once there. So in that respect I definitely see him as being a buyer, even if that's not the best long-term interests of the team. If the team falls short, if Gainey's moves backfire, I can see him walking away, either of his own volition, or with the point of a sword in his back. While some may think that's a good thing, I look at the list of potential replacements and wonder if it really is. In my opinion, in this order, here are Gainey's potential replacements: * Pierre McGuire * Jacques Martin * Patrick Roy * Pierre Gauthier So we have to ask ourselves, is sacrificing a D'Agostini for a rental in the hopes of saving Gainey's job worth it? Or would we be better off as minor sellers and one of the above directing the team this summer? To me Martin, Gauthier is more of the same, if the Molsons aren't happy with Bob's direction, I'm not why they'd want to put his lieutenants at the top. If the Molsons are happy and Bob walks on his own, well, they'll probably to preserve his direction and go Martin, Gauthier, Timmins or even Brisebois. McGuire seems to toot his own horn (again), he might be buddies with one of the Molson (and to what extent we don't know) but in the end he just doesn't have the resume for the job. If the Molsons want a completely spin on things than Roy is that. Polar opposite of Bob for sure. Roy has been running (as a one-men show) a junior team for a few years, he knows the game, he's agressive and driven to success... He's also hot headed and temperamental... It would definitely be a huge marketing coup to put him there but it could backfire... high risk/high reward... |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 15, 2010 15:13:24 GMT -5
It's going to take hitting the UFA market for Kovalchuk (or his agent, whoever) to find out that there just isn't the money out there that he's asking. No team will sign him for $11M for more than 3-4 years. If he wants a career-long contract, he's going to have to reduce his terms. Kovalchuk is the second or third best goalscorer in the NHL, but just doesn't do enough elsewhere on the rink to justify paying a half million dollars -- or more -- for each goal he scores. 1. We are up against the cap and Atlanta is not. 2. Bringing up an old thread, Quebec still has the highest tax rate in North America. 3. His name is not LeKovalchouk. 4. Being born in Ontario 5 miles from the Quebec border isn't pure laine enough for some fans. Born in the USSR, by Bruce Springsteen?? 5. 6,000 reporters are waiting to crucify his every move in two languages instead of 3 cub reporters in Atlanta. 6. Koivu wasn't bilingual enough when he visited sick children in hospitals. I'd love to see him in the flannel, but I don't think it will happen. I feel a definite wind of belittling the Quebec fans in this post... Dryden, Robinson, Kovalev, Muller, Naslund and many others could tell you that they felt right at home here. "pure laine" or not. |
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