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Post by Skilly on Feb 4, 2010 9:22:27 GMT -5
@tsnbobmckenzie: Teams in mix for Kovalchuk include: Boston, New Jersey, Rangers, Philadelphia, Calgary, Chicago and L.A. Some more. Some less. Auction time. Boston has Toronto's first pick to offer...... Maybe that's why they are trying to get ride of Ryder..... God, I hope Ilya goes to the West Boston has stated that Toronto's pick isnt going anywhere, but they are willing to listen to offers for their own first rounder. Atlanta is reportedly asking for a top six forward, a top four defenseman, and a pick/prospect. That's alot for a rental. And the only team I think that can step up and do it are Boston, LA and the Rangers. But I think the Rangers should be way more interested in a center... |
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Post by franko on Feb 4, 2010 10:15:38 GMT -5
Boston has stated that Toronto's pick isnt going anywhere, but they are willing to listen to offers for their own first rounder. the way Boston is playing it may be the better pick! I would think that it's gotta be a "sign and trade" [or trade with guaranteed sign] for it to work, or Atlanta isn't going to get much. Chicago's name has popped up too but they are at the top of the cap and are gelled . . . why put something new into the mix [other than perhaps a bit piece, which they may or may not need]. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 4, 2010 11:16:17 GMT -5
Chicago's name has popped up too but they are at the top of the cap and are gelled . . . why put something new into the mix [other than perhaps a bit piece, which they may or may not need]. Chicago's will have a problem ... they'd have to offer Versteeg, Barker and Sharp ... which is 10 million in annual salary just to cover Kovalchuck's 6.4 million salary this year and the reported 11.2 million Kovalchuck wants next year. So, even after moving three players, they'd need to move more to make it work beyond this year ... If he is a pure rental, they'd need to move 2 of those guys .. that's quite the price to pay for a rental.... |
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Post by ValkyrieNS on Feb 4, 2010 12:24:18 GMT -5
the reported 11.2 million Kovalchuck wants next year He/his agent *seriously* think he's worth that much? Is he really that much better than Crosby or Ovechkin? Dude, don't be so freakin' greedy! That's a 5.1 million increase... he's nuts... and I still don't want him on our team  |
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Post by blny on Feb 4, 2010 12:34:25 GMT -5
There's little doubt Waddell is trying to make up for the fiasco that was the Hossa trade, and to a lesser extent the Zhitnik trade. He's trying to hit a home run with this one.
$11.2 million is excessive, if that's accurate. IMO, Ilya is the second best pure goal scorer in the league behind Ovechkin. After that, there's a real drop off when you compare the two. He just doesn't bring the edge to his game that Ovi does. Someone will offer him that $100 million contract, but IMO his worth is somewhere below that of AO and SC.
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Post by franko on Feb 4, 2010 13:43:38 GMT -5
the reported 11.2 million Kovalchuck wants next year He/his agent *seriously* think he's worth that much? Worth? Value? Give your head a shake! This is the NHL . . . since when do those things matter? Thing is, he turned that down to move on from Atlanta. All he wanted was a guarantee [fat chance] that the Thrashers would stay in Atlanta and that there would be stability in the organization. Thing is, with him leaving he actually destroys stability. He has been the face of the team . . . now how do they sell tickets [they were having a hard enough time doing it]. |
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Post by HabSolute on Feb 4, 2010 15:35:22 GMT -5
the reported 11.2 million Kovalchuck wants next year He/his agent *seriously* think he's worth that much? Is he really that much better than Crosby or Ovechkin? Dude, don't be so freakin' greedy! That's a 5.1 million increase... he's nuts... and I still don't want him on our team Val, I really doubt it's only about the money.... This guy probably has had enough of playing in Atlanta where they played 4 playoffs games and lost all 4 of them. He's probably fed up of playing in a rink half empty every night. beside, if he went in a bigger market, he could probably double his salary just in advertising contract. I just think he wants out of this city. What is he going to say: "It's not the money, it's the city?" Now Waddell just made a statement saying that he refused the 101M offer for 8 years or something. Waddell is now trying to cover his ass with the fans.... This is not right. Why go out puplic and say this. I mean, can you blame Kovy ? Every great players left one after the other from Heatly, to Savard, Hossa etc.... I think he's always gave his all for that team and now he wants better for him. Atlanta is going nowhere anytime soon, and he knows it. He sees his buddy Ovechkin and he wants the same thing .... Can you blame him ? I think he will play for less but for a team that has a future.... |
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Post by franko on Feb 4, 2010 15:47:11 GMT -5
actually, HS, it is well-known that he turned down the offer [about month ago].
well, well-known everywhere, probably, except Atlanta.
the afternoon guys here were joking yesterday that if you asked the people of Atlanta "what's the name of the team Kovalchuk plays for most people wouldn't know" . . . though they know that he is the face of the team [also that they couldn't even name a handful of the players].
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Post by HabSolute on Feb 4, 2010 15:59:10 GMT -5
actually, HS, it is well-known that he turned down the offer [about month ago]. well, well-known everywhere, probably, except Atlanta. I know, but now Waddell made an "OFFICIAL" statement that is not very flattering to Kovalchuk... www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=516230the afternoon guys here were joking yesterday that if you asked the people of Atlanta "what's the name of the team Kovalchuk plays for most people wouldn't know" . . . though they know that he is the face of the team [also that they couldn't even name a handful of the players]. LOL, it's probably right, and it's it's exactly my point. maybe he want a different experience... a winning experience where it matters.... |
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 4, 2010 16:04:21 GMT -5
the reported 11.2 million Kovalchuck wants next year He/his agent *seriously* think he's worth that much? Is he really that much better than Crosby or Ovechkin? Dude, don't be so freakin' greedy! That's a 5.1 million increase... he's nuts... and I still don't want him on our team He's in a different circumstance than Crosby or Ovechkin. Both signed their current deals under restricted free agency. Kovalchuk has the ability to field offers from all teams without those teams having to sacrifice assets to acquire him. There's a player cap for a reason. I don't blame Kovalchuk or his agent for trying to get close to it.Of all the players to get up there, Kovalchuk (and later Crosby and Malkin) should be the players to get there. I'm sure the NHLPA is backing Ilya and his agent as well. |
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Post by franko on Feb 4, 2010 16:05:48 GMT -5
actually, HS, it is well-known that he turned down the offer [about month ago]. well, well-known everywhere, probably, except Atlanta. I know, but now Waddell made an "OFFICIAL" statement that is not very flattering to Kovalchuk... www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=516230thanks for the link . . . I guess the smiling "we'll work it outs" are over and done with now. here's an article from Atlanta . . . fans reaction [at least I think its from the fans] are interesting. I guess Hamilton is back in the mix . . . ;D |
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 4, 2010 19:01:47 GMT -5
Dreger says it'll likely go down tonight.....traded to an Eastern conference team. "Even talk that Bob Gainey has gotten involved...." What sensationalism...  |
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 4, 2010 19:32:10 GMT -5
Seems the deed has been done, and the winner is New Jersey. A very uncharacteristic pickup for Lamoriello. Oduya is reportedly in the package.
Lots of speculation was Oduya, Bergfors, 1st and Palmieri which would be a pretty good haul for Waddell.
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Post by jkr on Feb 4, 2010 20:17:23 GMT -5
Seems the deed has been done, and the winner is New Jersey. A very uncharacteristic pickup for Lamoriello. Oduya is reportedly in the package. Lots of speculation was Oduya, Bergfors, 1st and Palmieri which would be a pretty good haul for Waddell. Sportsnet was reporting Clarkson in place of Bergfors & Palmieri EDIT: TSN reporting Oduya, Bergfors, Cormier & a 1st: tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=308953 |
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Post by jkr on Feb 4, 2010 20:22:49 GMT -5
Dreger says it'll likely go down tonight.....traded to an Eastern conference team. "Even talk that Bob Gainey has gotten involved...." Why would Gainey even bother - what would be the point? |
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 4, 2010 20:23:48 GMT -5
McKenzie confirmed:
Oduya, Bergfors, Patrice Cormier (yes, that Patrice Cormier) and a 1st round pick for Kovalchuk.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 4, 2010 20:41:59 GMT -5
What do you guys think?
Lou's pretty much the Sam Pollock of this era......did he make a smart move?
That's a lot of players gone for Kovalchuk to be just a rental, isn't it? He's gotta plan on signing him.....I just can't see Lou caving in to those kinds of demands.
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Post by roke on Feb 4, 2010 20:44:33 GMT -5
Looks like a slightly better return than what Atlanta got for Hossa. Good move for New Jersey, although I wonder whether or not they need to pick up a defenseman to replace Oduya. With Brodeur really getting up in age, it's definitely time to win now for New Jersey, and I like the trade.
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 4, 2010 20:45:54 GMT -5
That's a lot of assets for 27 games + playoffs of any player. It's a very strange move for Lamoriello. One last kick at the Stanley Cup with Martin Brodeur?
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Post by blny on Feb 4, 2010 20:50:23 GMT -5
tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=308953It's a lot of parts, but how stellar are any of them? Bergfors may end up being the best of the known commodities. Oduya is steady. Looking on, I don't know how well Ilya will fit in such a structured environment. Can he reign it in and play the system AND produce? We'll see.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 4, 2010 20:52:02 GMT -5
A lot depends on how Berfgors and that first round draft choice turn out. Oduya is a solid dman. Not flashy or great in any one area that I can see, but an adequate 4th or 5th guy. The first round choice will be a late one, but in a strong draft. It will probably be better than a top 6-10 one in 2011, if it is indeed for 2010. I've never like Cormier. Big, good skater, might be an adequate 4th line checking centre. Waddell didn't really get one guy who could turn into a difference maker. I know Kovalchuk is just a rental, but he's a pretty good rental. NJ now has 2 offensive players. I can't believe Waddell couldn't have gotten more from someone else. Maybe rentals just aren't garnering much anymore. And it is just a rental. Lamoriello is not going to pay Kovalchuk what he wants and Kovalchuk only has so many fluids to throw up before he tires of Lemaire.
Funny, New Jersey was one of the last teams I thought Kovalchuk would be traded to, because I didn't think they had enough to give up for him. Waddell just proved me wrong and will probably be fired after the season. Why can't we take some guys for a ride? Why does any other GM deal with Lamoriello at all?
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Post by HabSolute on Feb 5, 2010 8:57:07 GMT -5
It's hard to believe Waddell couldn't get a better package....
I guess he didn't play his cards right. They should have negociated last summer and trade him back then....
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Post by CrocRob on Feb 5, 2010 9:16:38 GMT -5
I do think that last summer he'd have gotten a package not too far off what Philly paid for Pronger, but given that Ilya is only slated to play 27 games for the Devils plus playoffs, it's not a bad package if you ask me.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Feb 5, 2010 9:19:41 GMT -5
What do you guys think? Lou's pretty much the Sam Pollock of this era......did he make a smart move? That's a lot of players gone for Kovalchuk to be just a rental, isn't it? He's gotta plan on signing him.....I just can't see Lou caving in to those kinds of demands. Lou is the best GM in the league. On the face of it I don't think NJ is losing anything of great significance, he just made a Cup contending team better by A LOT, and he has the inside track of negotiating a long term deal. I think it's a great deal for the Devils, even if they don't end up signing him. |
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Post by franko on Feb 5, 2010 10:02:44 GMT -5
I guess he didn't play his cards right. They should have negociated last summer and trade him back then.... Last summer there was till hope that Ilya would sign long-term with Atlanta; if he'd signed there'da been no trade [nor need to]. Even a month ago there was still hope, though it was waning. It's pretty good for a rental . . . a player that everyone knew would be available on the open market in just a few months if he didn't get traded. Really, NJ makes sense . . . Detroit would have too. The other "top teams" didn't really have room [or ego room] available for him; with the middlin' teams Ilya wouldn't be enough to take them to the top. Heard MacLean complaining that Atlanta should have kept him longer . . . I think Waddell was thinking "what if he gets hurt" -- take the players and run while we can. |
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Post by Gas on Feb 5, 2010 11:14:50 GMT -5
Just for arguments sake...
Looking at what New Jersey gave up, what would the Habs equivalent be?
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Post by HabSolute on Feb 5, 2010 11:16:27 GMT -5
I guess he didn't play his cards right. They should have negociated last summer and trade him back then.... Last summer there was till hope that Ilya would sign long-term with Atlanta; if he'd signed there'da been no trade [nor need to]. Even a month ago there was still hope, though it was waning. What I mean Franko is, if I were Atlanta, I would have taken the following approach last summer: Let's deal with this as if August is OUR deadline and if we can't agree on a new contract, then lets trade him NOW. I mean, if the guy doesn't want to sign for 100 millions 10 months away from free agency, what makes you think he will change his mind in the next 6 months.... It's not like Kovalchuk is a Plekanec, or a Koivu or a Kovalev...... Kovalchuk is the REAL DEAL. No surprises there |
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 5, 2010 11:47:58 GMT -5
Heard MacLean complaining that Atlanta should have kept him longer . . . I think Waddell was thinking "what if he gets hurt" -- take the players and run while we can. It wouldn't surprise me if Lou simply told Waddell "now or never." We all know Lou can play hardball with the best of them, and how many teams were REALLY in the running for Kovalchouk? * Detroit flat-out denied they were, despite everyone saying otherwise; * Chicago already has cap issues and with the firepower they already have no real need anyways; * Boston? Really? Trade him to a team that you're battling for a playoff spot? And were the Bruins really that interested given the regression they've had this year? * LA? Maybe, but they aren't going to win the Cup this year, and it's not Dean Lombardi's style. Who else? Vancouver? Philadelphia? Never serious bidders, in my opinion. I don't think there was much on the table, and Lou probably told Waddell "I don't need to make this trade, so either you do it now, or I pull my offer." Waddell couldn't take the chance that this was the best he was going to get and he was about to lose it... |
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Post by franko on Feb 5, 2010 12:22:22 GMT -5
Last summer there was till hope that Ilya would sign long-term with Atlanta; if he'd signed there'da been no trade [nor need to]. Even a month ago there was still hope, though it was waning. What I mean Franko is, if I were Atlanta, I would have taken the following approach last summer: Let's deal with this as if August is OUR deadline and if we can't agree on a new contract, then lets trade him NOW. I mean, if the guy doesn't want to sign for 100 millions 10 months away from free agency, what makes you think he will change his mind in the next 6 months.... my [albeit limited] understanding is that Ilya wanted to stay in ATL and Waddell wanted to keep him and that it wasn't [at that time] about the money . . . and as discussions dragged on it was about the stability of the team. Kovulchuk likes ATL [give your head a shake, boy ;D ] but there was just too much uncertainty about the team moving/folding/whatever [like, its more stable now when they lose thier superstar/team draw?]. |
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Post by franko on Feb 5, 2010 12:23:27 GMT -5
Just for arguments sake... Looking at what New Jersey gave up, what would the Habs equivalent be? equivalent? that's is why Ilya is in NJ |
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