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Post by BadCompany on Jul 3, 2010 8:32:48 GMT -5
Before we go all nuts, let's remember that we don't have any cap space either, the Flyers probably wouldn't want Andrei and a team like the Kings would be in a much better position to meet Philly's needs. Like, say with Jonathon Bernier.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 3, 2010 8:38:42 GMT -5
I guess it depends if the Kings have completely given up on Kovalchuk or not.
He's a HABS killer so maybe the Leafs would have an interest? Gagne for Kaberle ?
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Post by blny on Jul 3, 2010 10:27:19 GMT -5
Glass Joe Gagne is one hit away from the end of his career. As good as he was in the playoffs, I wouldn't be interested.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 3, 2010 17:33:41 GMT -5
Glass Joe Gagne is one hit away from the end of his career. As good as he was in the playoffs, I wouldn't be interested. I agree and he's a Nordiques fan to boot so you know he would try to sink the CH ;D |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 3, 2010 22:30:31 GMT -5
You have to wonder if the Flyers have a trading partner already.
Cheers.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 5, 2010 11:47:23 GMT -5
You have to wonder if the Flyers have a trading partner already. Cheers. According to a Flyers exec. he's been available for over a year. He might be more interesting now since his contract expires at the end of the year so his leash is short. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 11, 2010 7:59:42 GMT -5
The Flyers adding Nikolai Zherdev to the lineup certainly fuels this rumor, doesn't it? Zherdev is nowhere near the player Gagne is (though like his former teammate Andrei he certainly has the potential to be) but if he can pot 20-25 for them, while Gagne gives them cap relief and say a 1st round pick or two...
I hate the Flyers with a passion, but I've always like Homlgren and his aggressiveness. It doesn't always work out (still stunned Hamhuis didn't sign there, or in Pittsburgh for that matter, considering how "little" he actually did go for), but you can't fault him for sitting on his hands.
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Post by jkr on Jul 11, 2010 9:35:13 GMT -5
IMO opinion signing Zherdev makes no sense at all. He was a complete no-show in the palyoffs for the Rangers ( 0 points in 7 games) & doesn't fit the Flyers mold.
39 points in the KHL last year is hardly impressive - Jeez, he was outscored by his teammate - Jan Bulis last season. I don't give Holmgren any credit for this signing at all - it will prove to be a mistake.
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Post by Anardil1 on Jul 11, 2010 9:43:58 GMT -5
I also like Holmgren's "aggressiveness" in solving the Flyers' biggest weakness since the unfortunate death of Pelle.  |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 11, 2010 12:12:23 GMT -5
If you don't think goaltending is important, you run a team like Holmgren does. I tend to think goal is the most critical position on a team. I know there will be arguments that recent cup winners haven't had the best goaltending, but I think it's more a case of the best goalies not being on contending teams. If we weren't burned out by two hugely difficult series, I like our chances against the Flyers and then we're in the Finals, where anything can happen. And that's with a team that was missing its best non-goalie player.
Holmgren obviously doesn't think the cost is worth it and he keeps losing. I can't think of much that is dumber than doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The Flyers have done a good job with their drafting overall, and that's really what's keeping them competitive. If Holmgren was responsible for that, then kudos to him.
There is speculation that Holmgren may waive Gagne to solve his cap problem. If that happens, even at his age, I think Gagne is a good pickup at half his salary on re-entry. We could solve our cap problems is a few ways to accommodate him. If.
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Post by Skilly on Jul 11, 2010 13:36:45 GMT -5
Isn't Holmgren the same GM that got to the Finals with no-name goalies like Leighton and Boucher? I don't know guys ... I know this year was the first time since 1993 that we got past the second round. Even with the Flyers goalie problems, they make the playoffs more than us and they go deeper and are more competitive than us .... .... some teams need a goalie to make the offense look good, some teams need offense to make the goalie look good .... six to one, half-dozen to another as far as I am concerned. |
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Post by BadCompany on Jul 12, 2010 8:23:15 GMT -5
What, no respect for the Stanley Cup Finalists and a team that has eliminated us two out of the last three years? IMO opinion signing Zherdev makes no sense at all. He was a complete no-show in the palyoffs for the Rangers ( 0 points in 7 games) & doesn't fit the Flyers mold. 39 points in the KHL last year is hardly impressive - Jeez, he was outscored by his teammate - Jan Bulis last season. I don't give Holmgren any credit for this signing at all - it will prove to be a mistake. I'm not sure you can extrapolate too much from seven playoff games that occurred when Zherdev was only 23... by that logic we should dump Pouliot, because his 2 points in 18 playoff games as a 23 year old is just as bad... Of course Zherdev is a headcase, so I see where you are coming from, but for a $2 million cap hit I see this as a pretty easy gamble to take. If he flops or becomes a problem you send him to the minors, he'll refuse to report, you suspend him, he bolts to the KHL and his minimal salary is off your books. On the other hand, if he is successful, as he has been in the past, you have a 20-25 goal, 60 point player on your team, with an extremely cap friendly salary. If you don't think goaltending is important, you run a team like Holmgren does. I tend to think goal is the most critical position on a team. I know there will be arguments that recent cup winners haven't had the best goaltending, but I think it's more a case of the best goalies not being on contending teams. If we weren't burned out by two hugely difficult series, I like our chances against the Flyers and then we're in the Finals, where anything can happen. And that's with a team that was missing its best non-goalie player. Holmgren obviously doesn't think the cost is worth it and he keeps losing. I can't think of much that is dumber than doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The Flyers have done a good job with their drafting overall, and that's really what's keeping them competitive. If Holmgren was responsible for that, then kudos to him. There is speculation that Holmgren may waive Gagne to solve his cap problem. If that happens, even at his age, I think Gagne is a good pickup at half his salary on re-entry. We could solve our cap problems is a few ways to accommodate him. If. I guess that depends on your definition of "losing." Yes of course they haven't won the Cup... but they've been a lot closer than most teams, and arguably keep getting better. As for the goaltending issue, in a cap world I guess you have to set your priorities, and the current zeitgeist is to move away from big-money goalies. Would you rather have a $6 million goalie, and a $1 million defenseman, or the other way around? If the Flyers trade Chris Pronger for Roberto Luongo, do they go to the Finals, never mind win the Cup? How about if Detroit trades Nik Lidstrom for Marty Brodeur? Lots of teams being burned by high-priced goalies at the moment... |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 12, 2010 8:35:13 GMT -5
This league, IMO, is less and less goalie oriented, I mean they're doing all they can to promote offense and they're making the goalies life as miserable as they can. Players crash them, dmen are not allowed to clear the front of the crease so goalies do most of their work without seeing much of anything... Nowadays the difference between a really good goalie at .920 and a rather mediocre one at .900 is not even a goal a game on a 35 shots game. Sure enough a hot goalie can save the day for a mediocre team and we've been counting on it here for years but I sure am not ready to say that this the right way to go. 3 of the 4 goalies in the conference finals were virtual nobodies making less than 1.5MM So really do you need to spend through the nose for a Luongo, Miller, Nabokov?
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Post by clear observer on Jul 12, 2010 10:19:59 GMT -5
This league, IMO, is less and less goalie oriented, I mean they're doing all they can to promote offense and they're making the goalies life as miserable as they can. Players crash them, dmen are not allowed to clear the front of the crease so goalies do most of their work without seeing much of anything... Nowadays the difference between a really good goalie at .920 and a rather mediocre one at .900 is not even a goal a game on a 35 shots game. Sure enough a hot goalie can save the day for a mediocre team and we've been counting on it here for years but I sure am not ready to say that this the right way to go. 3 of the 4 goalies in the conference finals were virtual nobodies making less than 1.5MM So really do you need to spend through the nose for a Luongo, Miller, Nabokov? Yep. Been saying for years that it's not great goaltenders that win....it's great goal TENDING...an obvious distinction. Good goaltenders are a dime-a-dozen nowadays...go out and buy one and focus more from the "D" on out. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 12, 2010 13:24:27 GMT -5
Sorry, I still think it's the key position. It doesn't have to be the most expensive position (halak at $4MM for example is reasonable). Let's ask Bruce Boudreau and Dan Bylsma those questions. Two key differences with the Pens compared to last year. First they missed Scuderi and Gill, two guys who together don't add up to one expensive Pronger, and Fleury was a different goaltender. If Fleury is on his game, we don't beat the Pens this year.
Thankfully, one thing the Philly scouts haven't been able to do is pick a star goalie out of the juniour ranks. That would be a cheap goalie, as Holmgren spends his money elsewhere. But if he wants to get one out of the FA ranks, he has to redistribute his budget.
Still Stubborn in Salmon Arm
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 17, 2010 7:54:25 GMT -5
Sorry, I still think it's the key position. It doesn't have to be the most expensive position (halak at $4MM for example is reasonable). ...and still, we had that young affortable proven goalie in the lineup but decided to go for the younger unproven but cheaper option nonetheless. |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jul 18, 2010 20:36:20 GMT -5
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Post by blny on Jul 19, 2010 13:31:19 GMT -5
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jul 19, 2010 13:49:51 GMT -5
Another veteran defenceman in Matt Walker plus a 4th-rounder going back to Philly. Cheers. |
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Post by jkr on Jul 19, 2010 15:13:57 GMT -5
Yzerman & Holmgen playing pitch & catch I guess.  |
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Post by Skilly on Jul 19, 2010 16:26:08 GMT -5
Walker and a 4th rounder .... not much to give up for Gagne ... ohhh if only we had the cap room. The sad part is, if we werent hell-bent on keeping all our own free-agents, we could have had a crack at Ilya or Gagne or who knows ..
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Post by roke on Jul 19, 2010 16:35:19 GMT -5
Philly got peanuts back. Absolute peanuts. I'm almost loathe to mention, but what I a less than reliable person on twitter tweeted that Gauthier did inquire but Gagne felt Tampa was a better fit. I don't really believe it (cap room and such), but seeing what Philly got for Gagne, would have been nice. As an aside, one of the better hockey metric sites out their hates the move (and others) by Philly: www.behindthenethockey.com/2010/7/19/1577129/flyers-moves-leave-me-scratchingWith the exception of the St Louis extension, Yzerman's done a terrific job in Tampa: Gagne for peanuts, dumping Meszaros and his contract, getting Kubina to replace Meszaros. |
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Post by seventeen on Jul 20, 2010 1:28:17 GMT -5
Not to mention hiring Guy Boucher. Tampa makes the playoffs next year, no sweat.
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