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Post by AH on Jan 20, 2004 11:48:39 GMT -5
Trade is complete. I have always liked Danny Markov and have always though of Justin Williams to be over-rated. Good trade for the Flyers.
Williams has been in Hitch's doghouse for 1 1/2 years. No surprise he gets shipped.
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Post by HFTO on Jan 20, 2004 12:09:06 GMT -5
Pretty good trade which could help both teams.Markov hasn't done what Carolina expected and in Williams they get a young guy with an upside to help offensively.
From the habs view we wouldn't have received anything from the Flyers unless we really anted up,and at this point we should no longer be looking to get ripped off.
HFTO
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Post by BCHab on Jan 20, 2004 12:21:53 GMT -5
I was cautiously optimistic that BG might drop off some deadwood for a draft pick. No surprise that Clarke found nothing to his liking.
Markov for Williams certainly helps the Flyers now. I think the 'Canes come out ahead long term. Williams is only 22 and is still developing.
Cheers,
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Post by blny on Jan 20, 2004 13:10:30 GMT -5
Here's what I said in the Flyers Seek D-man thread:
"I'm not sure who won the deal. Justin Williams has long been considered a top prospect. The Flyers are so deep at forward that he hasn't been able to get the ice time needed to develop at the NHL level. He'll get that chance in Carolina, and could blossom.
In Markov, the Flyers get a physical stay at home blueliner with decent size and a good all around game. It took Tanabe and the other blueliner for the Canes to get Markov from Phoenix last year and they flip him for Williams. Tanabe is doing well in Phoenix and I can't remeber the name of the Russian kid they also got.
All in all I guess the deal addresses both teams needs. The Flyers get a strong blueliner. The Canes get a young, cheap, winger with lots of potential. If I had to pick a winner, I'd say that Clarke might have the edge at this point. However, two or three years down the road it might be a very different story."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2004 14:30:53 GMT -5
Clarke is single-handedly ruining the Flyers. Of course, this deal doesn't necessarily make it so, but from others he's made, I'm very surprised he's still around as GM. In another two or three years, this team will have nothing left. Prospects are iffy, goaltending is weak; I see the Flyers falling and the Penguins rising (Yikes!).
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Post by blny on Jan 20, 2004 14:56:34 GMT -5
Clarke is single-handedly ruining the Flyers. Of course, this deal doesn't necessarily make it so, but from others he's made, I'm very surprised he's still around as GM. In another two or three years, this team will have nothing left. Prospects are iffy, goaltending is weak; I see the Flyers falling and the Penguins rising (Yikes!). He's obviously banking on no salary cap. If there is one, the Flyers will be in trouble. |
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Post by PTH on Jan 20, 2004 18:55:39 GMT -5
Clarke is single-handedly ruining the Flyers. Of course, this deal doesn't necessarily make it so, but from others he's made, I'm very surprised he's still around as GM. In another two or three years, this team will have nothing left. Prospects are iffy, goaltending is weak; I see the Flyers falling and the Penguins rising (Yikes!). You know, we say that year after year, yet he keeps them competitive, and had a lot of high picks in the last draft.... he's obviously doing something right (and it can't all be due to money !) |
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 20, 2004 19:46:45 GMT -5
Personaly I like the deal from both side of the fence. Markov is a more proven commodity but he comes with a heavy history of injuries and Williams has plenty of potential. Lots of young forwards with potential in Carolina now. Williams, Vrbata, Vasicek, Brendl, Cole and Staal represent quite an interesting offensive core to build on. Defensively I find them old and sourely missing top end potential though. O'Neil for Hainsey and Bulis would complete this trade well IMO.  |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 20, 2004 19:49:59 GMT -5
You know, we say that year after year, yet he keeps them competitive, and had a lot of high picks in the last draft.... he's obviously doing something right (and it can't all be due to money !) Quite right. Unlikable does not necessarily mean incompetent. Ask the Habs players of the '70s what they thought of Scotty Bowman... |
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Post by blaise on Jan 20, 2004 22:58:01 GMT -5
Danny Markov is a quality defenseman and I wish the Habs had him. His style of play complements that of Andrei: a heavy hitter with a good shot from the point. And he's only 27, same as Souray.
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Post by blaise on Jan 20, 2004 23:03:32 GMT -5
Quite right. Unlikable does not necessarily mean incompetent. Ask the Habs players of the '70s what they thought of Scotty Bowman... He isn't always incompetent. Just Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. Seriously, he's made some bad moves (some of his coaching appointments) and some bad trades (Adam Oates for what?) and a continuum of bad decisions about which goalies to keep. |
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Post by seventeen on Jan 21, 2004 0:36:38 GMT -5
It's the goalie thing that's hounded him. The flyers prospects aren't bad, and include Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. Of course, luck helps. I mean, how far does one have to look to find a doofus like Feaster to give up Pitkanen for Fedotenko and some loose change? We need one like that to fall into our laps. Maybe we can get Chicago to give us their first for Hossa. Then we can win the lottery, draft Ovechkin and away we go.
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Post by blny on Jan 21, 2004 11:57:05 GMT -5
It's the goalie thing that's hounded him. The flyers prospects aren't bad, and include Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. Of course, luck helps. I mean, how far does one have to look to find a doofus like Feaster to give up Pitkanen for Fedotenko and some loose change? We need one like that to fall into our laps. Maybe we can get Chicago to give us their first for Hossa. Then we can win the lottery, draft Ovechkin and away we go. Wouldn't that be nice!  |
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Post by PTH on Jan 21, 2004 23:26:18 GMT -5
It's the goalie thing that's hounded him. The flyers prospects aren't bad, and include Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. Of course, luck helps. I mean, how far does one have to look to find a doofus like Feaster to give up Pitkanen for Fedotenko and some loose change? We need one like that to fall into our laps. Maybe we can get Chicago to give us their first for Hossa. Then we can win the lottery, draft Ovechkin and away we go. Well, it might have been dumb luck, but if Clarke gets it right he should get the credit for it. |
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Post by del on Jan 22, 2004 15:25:19 GMT -5
" I can't remeber the name of the Russian kid they also got. " Igor Knzayev - D drafted 1/15 (2001) by Cane's. They gave up a first rounder in Tanabe and a first round prospect in Knzayev to get Markov, an original ninth round 223 rd pick by Toronto. Seems the Leafs did somthing right in this draft, but they let him go for Reichel, Green and Mills. Markov just keeps on getting traded for first round draft choices. O'Neil for Hainsey and Bulis would complete this trade well IMO. Yes it would - in Carolina's favour. O'Neil, at 28 would be short term gain for us vs Bulis and Hainsey being long term gain for the Cane's (huge salary difference as well) I think it's time to hang on to our "long term gains" and ride out the season(s) and gain more draft picks to increase our own stable. There will always be more O'Neils down the road, and at a time when we can deal from strenght and avoid creating more holes in our system - my opinion only, of course!
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Post by Rimmer on Jan 23, 2004 4:14:18 GMT -5
without getting into the debate of whether we really need O'Neill or not or what his value is, I just want to say that I don't understand this labeling of O'Neill as a short term solution. I mean, he's not 28 yet which makes him younger than Zednik, not to mention Koivu. if you think Zed and Saku wouldn't feature in the team's success in a few years then I except the same argument for O'Neill although I don't agree with it.
last year everybody was saying how Zed had just hit his prime and would only get better. why couldn't the same be said for O'Neill? is it because he had 3 seasons of 30+ goals earlier in his career but he's struggling this season on an offensively challenged team? I can't say if he will ever hit 30 or 40 goals in a year again, no one can. but, IMHO, he would be a safer bet than Balej, Dagenais, Bulis, Ryder, Perezhogin etc.
R.
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